FED 2-6-0 - look for ideas to fix derailing problems


Martin Fischer
 

Hello group,

several years ago I bought a Spartan FED 2-6-0. As I live in Germany, I decided to have it remotored, detailed and painted before it was shipped to me. So I have never seen it in its original state.

The model looks great and has a Locodec re-motor kit installed. So it runs great on straight track as well. But it doesn't go through turnouts!

Examination shows that the lead truck and the tender trucks derail in this situation. A closer look shows that

a. there are no springs on the tender truck screws. Looking around it might be that PSC has appropriate replacements parts. But as I had never seen the original parts I cannot be sure. So if anybody here could measure the springs at the tender truck of such an engine, more information would be welcome.

b. in regard to the lead truck I have no idea that to do. I remember reading about glueing a small weight to the top. Would that a possible answer to the problem? Any other suggestions? Again, how was that solved in the original state?

Regards
Martin


Mark Kasprowicz
 
Edited

Martin,

I do not think that the FED's had tender truck springs and I wonder if they were not an addition to later models. I don't think that Balboa HOn3 loco had them as standard. As far as the trucks are concerned, check the gauge. I have one of these and the issue was that the front truck wheels were out of gauge.

Mark K


martin feldwick
 

My two had truck springs .I replaced them with some from ebay China.no problem with front truck so wheel gauge seems to be the answer to your problems .
Martin F


On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:01 AM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Martin,

I do not think that the FED's had tender truck springs and I wonder if they were not an addition to later models. I don't think that Balboa HOn3 loco had them as standard. As far as the trucks are concerned, check the gauge. I have one of these and the issue was that the front truck wheels were out of gauge.

Mark K


Russ Norris
 

I have made replacement springs by winding phosphor bronze wire around a small screw driver.  As they have a habit of getting lost over time, a lot of my  brass engines now have these springs and they run fine.  I have also heard that a small lead weight on the pilot truck will improve tracking but I have never tried it. 

Russ

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, 2:33 AM Martin Fischer <Martinfischer8@...> wrote:
Hello group,

several years ago I bought a Spartan FED 2-6-0. As I live in Germany, I
decided to have it remotored, detailed and painted before it was shipped
to me. So I have never seen it in its original state.

The model looks great and has a Locodec re-motor kit installed. So it
runs great on straight track as well. But it doesn't go through turnouts!

Examination shows that the lead truck and the tender trucks derail in
this situation. A closer look shows that

a. there are no springs on the tender truck screws. Looking around it
might be that PSC has appropriate replacements parts. But as I had never
seen the original parts I cannot be sure. So if anybody here could
measure the springs at the tender truck of such an engine, more
information would be welcome.

b. in regard to the lead truck I have no idea that to do. I remember
reading about glueing a small weight to the top. Would that a possible
answer to the problem? Any other suggestions? Again, how was that solved
in the original state?

Regards
Martin






--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


captaindavekrembs
 

It has been a long time ago, but I added a spring to the pilot by drilling into the frame enough to fit a spring to push down (in front of the mounting screw) . May have used part of a coupler spring.

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, 05:05:22 AM CDT, Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:


I have made replacement springs by winding phosphor bronze wire around a small screw driver.  As they have a habit of getting lost over time, a lot of my  brass engines now have these springs and they run fine.  I have also heard that a small lead weight on the pilot truck will improve tracking but I have never tried it. 

Russ

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, 2:33 AM Martin Fischer <Martinfischer8@...> wrote:
Hello group,

several years ago I bought a Spartan FED 2-6-0. As I live in Germany, I
decided to have it remotored, detailed and painted before it was shipped
to me. So I have never seen it in its original state.

The model looks great and has a Locodec re-motor kit installed. So it
runs great on straight track as well. But it doesn't go through turnouts!

Examination shows that the lead truck and the tender trucks derail in
this situation. A closer look shows that

a. there are no springs on the tender truck screws. Looking around it
might be that PSC has appropriate replacements parts. But as I had never
seen the original parts I cannot be sure. So if anybody here could
measure the springs at the tender truck of such an engine, more
information would be welcome.

b. in regard to the lead truck I have no idea that to do. I remember
reading about glueing a small weight to the top. Would that a possible
answer to the problem? Any other suggestions? Again, how was that solved
in the original state?

Regards
Martin






--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Nigel Phillips
 

Hi Martin.

In addition to adding some weight to the leading truck frames and some weight to the tender, and making sure the wheels are in gauge, check for concentricity on the axle. How good is the fit between the frame hole and the screw?(Lateral movement is not good).  Springing is probably something you should do last. The spring loading will depend on the load on the axle. Are the drivers sprung? (Not familiar with this model). Do you have pickups on the wheels? If so, one side or both? Are the wheel treads flat or beveled? Flat ones tend to hunt more than beveled ones.

With the tender, make sure the CoG is central. 

Exactly where does it derail in a turnout? Over the frog? Between the closure rails and the frog point? Through the check rails? One direction or both? Main road or exit or both? What size turnouts? If the flange is hitting the frog point that could be the problem. How sharp are your frog points? 

Turnouts have changed since these models were designed. Modern turnouts are a lot less forgiving when it comes to under or over gauge stock. Check the back-to-back of the wheels. (Track is measured by gauge, wheels by their back-to-back).

Apologies for all the questions, but if you carry out a systematic examination you should be able to pinpoint the problem. I suspect new wheels would solve the derailing.

Nigel


On Sunday, October 3, 2021, captaindavekrembs via groups.io <captaindavekrembs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It has been a long time ago, but I added a spring to the pilot by drilling into the frame enough to fit a spring to push down (in front of the mounting screw) . May have used part of a coupler spring.

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, 05:05:22 AM CDT, Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:


I have made replacement springs by winding phosphor bronze wire around a small screw driver.  As they have a habit of getting lost over time, a lot of my  brass engines now have these springs and they run fine.  I have also heard that a small lead weight on the pilot truck will improve tracking but I have never tried it. 

Russ

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, 2:33 AM Martin Fischer <Martinfischer8@...> wrote:
Hello group,

several years ago I bought a Spartan FED 2-6-0. As I live in Germany, I
decided to have it remotored, detailed and painted before it was shipped
to me. So I have never seen it in its original state.

The model looks great and has a Locodec re-motor kit installed. So it
runs great on straight track as well. But it doesn't go through turnouts!

Examination shows that the lead truck and the tender trucks derail in
this situation. A closer look shows that

a. there are no springs on the tender truck screws. Looking around it
might be that PSC has appropriate replacements parts. But as I had never
seen the original parts I cannot be sure. So if anybody here could
measure the springs at the tender truck of such an engine, more
information would be welcome.

b. in regard to the lead truck I have no idea that to do. I remember
reading about glueing a small weight to the top. Would that a possible
answer to the problem? Any other suggestions? Again, how was that solved
in the original state?

Regards
Martin






--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


martin feldwick
 

I found the springs I use for tender trucks ,they are OK for most brass  I find but might need cutting down ,of course the standy by of old biro springs might also work

Martin F

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 3:08 PM Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...> wrote:
Hi Martin.

In addition to adding some weight to the leading truck frames and some weight to the tender, and making sure the wheels are in gauge, check for concentricity on the axle. How good is the fit between the frame hole and the screw?(Lateral movement is not good).  Springing is probably something you should do last. The spring loading will depend on the load on the axle. Are the drivers sprung? (Not familiar with this model). Do you have pickups on the wheels? If so, one side or both? Are the wheel treads flat or beveled? Flat ones tend to hunt more than beveled ones.

With the tender, make sure the CoG is central. 

Exactly where does it derail in a turnout? Over the frog? Between the closure rails and the frog point? Through the check rails? One direction or both? Main road or exit or both? What size turnouts? If the flange is hitting the frog point that could be the problem. How sharp are your frog points? 

Turnouts have changed since these models were designed. Modern turnouts are a lot less forgiving when it comes to under or over gauge stock. Check the back-to-back of the wheels. (Track is measured by gauge, wheels by their back-to-back).

Apologies for all the questions, but if you carry out a systematic examination you should be able to pinpoint the problem. I suspect new wheels would solve the derailing.

Nigel

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, captaindavekrembs via groups.io <captaindavekrembs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It has been a long time ago, but I added a spring to the pilot by drilling into the frame enough to fit a spring to push down (in front of the mounting screw) . May have used part of a coupler spring.

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, 05:05:22 AM CDT, Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:


I have made replacement springs by winding phosphor bronze wire around a small screw driver.  As they have a habit of getting lost over time, a lot of my  brass engines now have these springs and they run fine.  I have also heard that a small lead weight on the pilot truck will improve tracking but I have never tried it. 

Russ

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, 2:33 AM Martin Fischer <Martinfischer8@...> wrote:
Hello group,

several years ago I bought a Spartan FED 2-6-0. As I live in Germany, I
decided to have it remotored, detailed and painted before it was shipped
to me. So I have never seen it in its original state.

The model looks great and has a Locodec re-motor kit installed. So it
runs great on straight track as well. But it doesn't go through turnouts!

Examination shows that the lead truck and the tender trucks derail in
this situation. A closer look shows that

a. there are no springs on the tender truck screws. Looking around it
might be that PSC has appropriate replacements parts. But as I had never
seen the original parts I cannot be sure. So if anybody here could
measure the springs at the tender truck of such an engine, more
information would be welcome.

b. in regard to the lead truck I have no idea that to do. I remember
reading about glueing a small weight to the top. Would that a possible
answer to the problem? Any other suggestions? Again, how was that solved
in the original state?

Regards
Martin






--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Nigel Phillips
 

Hi Martin,

I forgot to add that your back-to-back will depend on your flange width. The NMRA standard for HOn3 is 8.89mm +0.051/-0.127mm. If the wheels do not conform to NMRA standards then you will have to do some measuring. Taking the trucks or wheel sets off and just running them through the turnout by hand before and after any back-to-back adjustment should give you a good idea of what the issues are. If they are fine then check that when attached to the locomotive and tender the trucks rotate freely. I have a couple of spare trucks that I use as standards for this. Running a 2 wheel truck through a turnout is not easy.

Nigel


Nigel


On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 10:08 AM Nigel Phillips via groups.io <nigelp18000=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Martin.

In addition to adding some weight to the leading truck frames and some weight to the tender, and making sure the wheels are in gauge, check for concentricity on the axle. How good is the fit between the frame hole and the screw?(Lateral movement is not good).  Springing is probably something you should do last. The spring loading will depend on the load on the axle. Are the drivers sprung? (Not familiar with this model). Do you have pickups on the wheels? If so, one side or both? Are the wheel treads flat or beveled? Flat ones tend to hunt more than beveled ones.

With the tender, make sure the CoG is central. 

Exactly where does it derail in a turnout? Over the frog? Between the closure rails and the frog point? Through the check rails? One direction or both? Main road or exit or both? What size turnouts? If the flange is hitting the frog point that could be the problem. How sharp are your frog points? 

Turnouts have changed since these models were designed. Modern turnouts are a lot less forgiving when it comes to under or over gauge stock. Check the back-to-back of the wheels. (Track is measured by gauge, wheels by their back-to-back).

Apologies for all the questions, but if you carry out a systematic examination you should be able to pinpoint the problem. I suspect new wheels would solve the derailing.

Nigel

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, captaindavekrembs via groups.io <captaindavekrembs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It has been a long time ago, but I added a spring to the pilot by drilling into the frame enough to fit a spring to push down (in front of the mounting screw) . May have used part of a coupler spring.

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, 05:05:22 AM CDT, Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:


I have made replacement springs by winding phosphor bronze wire around a small screw driver.  As they have a habit of getting lost over time, a lot of my  brass engines now have these springs and they run fine.  I have also heard that a small lead weight on the pilot truck will improve tracking but I have never tried it. 

Russ

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, 2:33 AM Martin Fischer <Martinfischer8@...> wrote:
Hello group,

several years ago I bought a Spartan FED 2-6-0. As I live in Germany, I
decided to have it remotored, detailed and painted before it was shipped
to me. So I have never seen it in its original state.

The model looks great and has a Locodec re-motor kit installed. So it
runs great on straight track as well. But it doesn't go through turnouts!

Examination shows that the lead truck and the tender trucks derail in
this situation. A closer look shows that

a. there are no springs on the tender truck screws. Looking around it
might be that PSC has appropriate replacements parts. But as I had never
seen the original parts I cannot be sure. So if anybody here could
measure the springs at the tender truck of such an engine, more
information would be welcome.

b. in regard to the lead truck I have no idea that to do. I remember
reading about glueing a small weight to the top. Would that a possible
answer to the problem? Any other suggestions? Again, how was that solved
in the original state?

Regards
Martin






--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Alan Kilby
 

The spring from a ball point pen is often correct size/dia.for tender truck screws.
Alan


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 8:01:33 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] FED 2-6-0 - look for ideas to fix derailing problems
 
Hi Martin,

I forgot to add that your back-to-back will depend on your flange width. The NMRA standard for HOn3 is 8.89mm +0.051/-0.127mm. If the wheels do not conform to NMRA standards then you will have to do some measuring. Taking the trucks or wheel sets off and just running them through the turnout by hand before and after any back-to-back adjustment should give you a good idea of what the issues are. If they are fine then check that when attached to the locomotive and tender the trucks rotate freely. I have a couple of spare trucks that I use as standards for this. Running a 2 wheel truck through a turnout is not easy.

Nigel


Nigel

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 10:08 AM Nigel Phillips via groups.io <nigelp18000=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Martin.

In addition to adding some weight to the leading truck frames and some weight to the tender, and making sure the wheels are in gauge, check for concentricity on the axle. How good is the fit between the frame hole and the screw?(Lateral movement is not good).  Springing is probably something you should do last. The spring loading will depend on the load on the axle. Are the drivers sprung? (Not familiar with this model). Do you have pickups on the wheels? If so, one side or both? Are the wheel treads flat or beveled? Flat ones tend to hunt more than beveled ones.

With the tender, make sure the CoG is central. 

Exactly where does it derail in a turnout? Over the frog? Between the closure rails and the frog point? Through the check rails? One direction or both? Main road or exit or both? What size turnouts? If the flange is hitting the frog point that could be the problem. How sharp are your frog points? 

Turnouts have changed since these models were designed. Modern turnouts are a lot less forgiving when it comes to under or over gauge stock. Check the back-to-back of the wheels. (Track is measured by gauge, wheels by their back-to-back).

Apologies for all the questions, but if you carry out a systematic examination you should be able to pinpoint the problem. I suspect new wheels would solve the derailing.

Nigel

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, captaindavekrembs via groups.io <captaindavekrembs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It has been a long time ago, but I added a spring to the pilot by drilling into the frame enough to fit a spring to push down (in front of the mounting screw) . May have used part of a coupler spring.

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, 05:05:22 AM CDT, Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:


I have made replacement springs by winding phosphor bronze wire around a small screw driver.  As they have a habit of getting lost over time, a lot of my  brass engines now have these springs and they run fine.  I have also heard that a small lead weight on the pilot truck will improve tracking but I have never tried it. 

Russ

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, 2:33 AM Martin Fischer <Martinfischer8@...> wrote:
Hello group,

several years ago I bought a Spartan FED 2-6-0. As I live in Germany, I
decided to have it remotored, detailed and painted before it was shipped
to me. So I have never seen it in its original state.

The model looks great and has a Locodec re-motor kit installed. So it
runs great on straight track as well. But it doesn't go through turnouts!

Examination shows that the lead truck and the tender trucks derail in
this situation. A closer look shows that

a. there are no springs on the tender truck screws. Looking around it
might be that PSC has appropriate replacements parts. But as I had never
seen the original parts I cannot be sure. So if anybody here could
measure the springs at the tender truck of such an engine, more
information would be welcome.

b. in regard to the lead truck I have no idea that to do. I remember
reading about glueing a small weight to the top. Would that a possible
answer to the problem? Any other suggestions? Again, how was that solved
in the original state?

Regards
Martin






--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Martin Fischer
 

Thanks everybody for the tipps and ideas you gave me.

Some additional information and progress report:

- I checked all wheelsets using the NMRA gauge. No problem there,
- on its own, the tender ran fine through all the turnouts
- closer examination showed that the tender front truck was lifted a bit when he tender was coupled to the engine. Bending the tender drawbar solved that. The drawbar is screwed to the engine on this model.
- I'll have to try adding some weight to the lead truck.

In any case the model starts to run much better. But a new problem shows up:

The motor sits in the tender. When going through curves the tender is tilted on one side and the wheels are lifted off the track. Basically the tender is rotated a few degrees. I will try to solve that by adding some weight. Disassembling the engine and looking for binds will have to wait until other projects are finished.

I use Micro Engineering Code 70 #6 turnouts everywhere.

MartinF: thanks for the ebay link. I'll keep it in case I'll need those springs in the end.

Regards
Martin


Russ Norris
 

Martin, if you are using the Locodoc motoring kit in the tender, it is possible that you are dealing with a torque issue.  Unfortunately, that is beyond my skill set to resolve.  But maybe someone in the group can suggest a fix?

Russ


On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 7:01 AM Martin Fischer <Martinfischer8@...> wrote:
Thanks everybody for the tipps and ideas you gave me.

Some additional information and progress report:

- I checked all wheelsets using the NMRA gauge. No problem there,
- on its own, the tender ran fine through all the turnouts
- closer examination showed that the tender front truck was lifted a bit
when he tender was coupled to the engine. Bending the tender drawbar
solved that. The drawbar is screwed to the engine on this model.
- I'll have to try adding some weight to the lead truck.

In any case the model starts to run much better. But a new problem shows up:

The motor sits in the tender. When going through curves the tender is
tilted on one side and the wheels are lifted off the track. Basically
the tender is rotated a few degrees. I will try to solve that by adding
some weight. Disassembling the engine and looking for binds will have to
wait until other projects are finished.

I use Micro Engineering Code 70 #6 turnouts everywhere.

MartinF: thanks for the ebay link. I'll keep it in case I'll need those
springs in the end.

Regards
Martin






--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Bill Lugg
 

Martin,
If your loco is still tender drive, here's a fix from Mr. Ken Clark,
moderator of the RepowrAnRegear group that might address your problem:


"Initially I dislike tender drive locomotives due tot he tender tilt
when reversing direction.  However the newer motors are so light that

the pulling power of a model is reduced with the motor in the cab in
small locos.

I had this issue with a tender drive PFM SP #9. Also a V&T 4-4-0 and a
SP M-6 2-6-0 with a tender drive

I installed a NWSL2mm hat bearing on the drawbar.  It slides over the
tender drawbar pin and greatly reduces rocking.

Photo below is of the 2-6-0 with a Sagami 2032 can motor and flywheel in
the tender and the boiler filled with lead."

Maybe that would solve your problem without adding weight to your
tender, which would reduce the pulling power of the loco.

HTH

Bill Lugg

On 10/4/21 5:01 AM, Martin Fischer wrote:
The motor sits in the tender. When going through curves the tender is
tilted on one side and the wheels are lifted off the track. Basically
the tender is rotated a few degrees. I will try to solve that by adding
some weight. Disassembling the engine and looking for binds will have to
wait until other projects are finished.


Russ Norris
 

Hey, Bill, what a great solution!  The hat bearing uses the weight of the locomotive to prevent rocking caused by the motor!  (I wish I'd thought of that!)  Now I am inspired to get out the remotoring kit and finish the conversion to DCC.  Thanks for the info!

Russ


On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:52 AM Bill Lugg via groups.io <luggw1=protonmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Martin,
If your loco is still tender drive, here's a fix from Mr. Ken Clark,
moderator of the RepowrAnRegear group that might address your problem:


"Initially I dislike tender drive locomotives due tot he tender tilt
when reversing direction.  However the newer motors are so light that

the pulling power of a model is reduced with the motor in the cab in
small locos.

I had this issue with a tender drive PFM SP #9. Also a V&T 4-4-0 and a
SP M-6 2-6-0 with a tender drive

I installed a NWSL2mm hat bearing on the drawbar.  It slides over the
tender drawbar pin and greatly reduces rocking.

Photo below is of the 2-6-0 with a Sagami 2032 can motor and flywheel in
the tender and the boiler filled with lead."

Maybe that would solve your problem without adding weight to your
tender, which would reduce the pulling power of the loco.

HTH

Bill Lugg


On 10/4/21 5:01 AM, Martin Fischer wrote:
> The motor sits in the tender. When going through curves the tender is
> tilted on one side and the wheels are lifted off the track. Basically
> the tender is rotated a few degrees. I will try to solve that by adding
> some weight. Disassembling the engine and looking for binds will have to
> wait until other projects are finished.
>
>






--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Bill Lugg
 

Yes, I thought it was pretty ingenious when I saw Ken report on it too. 
The added benefit of allowing for additional weight in the loco for
increased traction is the additional benefit.

FWIW, I've found the RepowerAndRegear group to be of great help for a
lot of these kinds of questions.

Bill Lugg

On 10/4/21 8:01 AM, Russ Norris wrote:
Hey, Bill, what a great solution!  The hat bearing uses the weight of
the locomotive to prevent rocking caused by the motor!  (I wish I'd
thought of that!)  Now I am inspired to get out the remotoring kit and
finish the conversion to DCC.  Thanks for the info!

Russ


Don Ball
 

I have several PFM 4-4-0 tender drive locos on my railroad. There is no rocking of the tender or need for a special bushing. I use a NWSL U-joint assembly between the tender motor and the locomotive. It works great.

Don Ball

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:52 AM Bill Lugg via groups.io <luggw1=protonmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Martin,
If your loco is still tender drive, here's a fix from Mr. Ken Clark,
moderator of the RepowrAnRegear group that might address your problem:


"Initially I dislike tender drive locomotives due tot he tender tilt
when reversing direction.  However the newer motors are so light that

the pulling power of a model is reduced with the motor in the cab in
small locos.

I had this issue with a tender drive PFM SP #9. Also a V&T 4-4-0 and a
SP M-6 2-6-0 with a tender drive

I installed a NWSL2mm hat bearing on the drawbar.  It slides over the
tender drawbar pin and greatly reduces rocking.

Photo below is of the 2-6-0 with a Sagami 2032 can motor and flywheel in
the tender and the boiler filled with lead."

Maybe that would solve your problem without adding weight to your
tender, which would reduce the pulling power of the loco.

HTH

Bill Lugg


On 10/4/21 5:01 AM, Martin Fischer wrote:
> The motor sits in the tender. When going through curves the tender is
> tilted on one side and the wheels are lifted off the track. Basically
> the tender is rotated a few degrees. I will try to solve that by adding
> some weight. Disassembling the engine and looking for binds will have to
> wait until other projects are finished.
>
>






Bill Nelson
 

my Fed 2-6-0 and 4-4-0 track flawlessly through mu and laid track, old shinoharra # 4 switches, and newer Micro engineering #5 switches, and easily do 16 inch radiuses. they are in a different location. so I can’t inspect ant photograph the parts in question

On Oct 3, 2021, at 1:32 AM, Martin Fischer <Martinfischer8@t-online.de> wrote:

Hello group,

several years ago I bought a Spartan FED 2-6-0. As I live in Germany, I decided to have it remotored, detailed and painted before it was shipped to me. So I have never seen it in its original state.

The model looks great and has a Locodec re-motor kit installed. So it runs great on straight track as well. But it doesn't go through turnouts!

Examination shows that the lead truck and the tender trucks derail in this situation. A closer look shows that

a. there are no springs on the tender truck screws. Looking around it might be that PSC has appropriate replacements parts. But as I had never seen the original parts I cannot be sure. So if anybody here could measure the springs at the tender truck of such an engine, more information would be welcome.

b. in regard to the lead truck I have no idea that to do. I remember reading about glueing a small weight to the top. Would that a possible answer to the problem? Any other suggestions? Again, how was that solved in the original state?

Regards
Martin





John Stutz
 

Martin

My go-to source for small coil springs are the replacements offered by Kadee for their larger scale centering springs.  Being mostly a bronze allow, they are easily cut to length to adjust spring rate, that is force versus  distortion.

Note that a lightly loaded coil spring under head of one of a car's truck screws will very effectivly eliminate car wobble.

For single axle lead trucks with the usual shouldered pivot screw and flat radius bar: I like a single phospher bronze leaf spring, about as wide as the radius bar, fixed under the screw's shoulder, and bearing about 1/3 out alonge the radius bar.  Its down-force is easily adjusted by simply bending it.  I have used 0.003" (.0075mm) hard phospher bronze purchased many years ago

John Stutz


John Stutz
 

Martin describes a torque reaction problem: as the tender mounted motor twists the drive shaft one way, it tends to twist the tender the other way.

Ken's solution, as presented by Bill, absorbs this reaction in the drawbar by ensuring that the locomotive and tender cannot twist, much if at all, relative to each other. This may introduce weight transfer problems on vertical curves, which could be eliminated by slightly enlarging the two drawbar pin bushings at front and back.

Another is to ensure that the tender body cannot rock, relative to the track.  I see two ways to accomplish this with the usual shouldered tender screws and light washers between body and truck bolsters:  The first is to replace one of the washers with a pair of same thickness side bearings at the body bolster's outer ends.  The second is to replace one of the tender truck bolster springs with a heavier or lighter spring.  In either case the goal to ensure that the tender body follows one of the trucks because that truck is only free to rock fore-and-aft, while the other truck is also free to rock sideways.  In this, the first approach is more certain, while the second is much quicker.

John Stutz


gnorwood6 gnorwood6
 

Regarding the rocking motion of tender drive locomotives. I have several of these over many years and have fixed the problem.
Most of the tenders have a round mounting boss. The trucks have a flat brass bolster. The spring on the truck securing screw is in some cases too soft. The simple matter of fitting a strong spring then restricts the truck from turning on curves.
My method is to fabricate a new rectangular mounting that provides more support across the tender bolster. I have also in some cases added styrene extensions to the round mounting boss. This seems to fix the torque reaction problem.
I had this problem with a Westside Models SP #9 that was repowered with a Minebea 15mm square motor. These small slow revving motors do have more torque than I expected. It is now a very nice running model.
Gary




------ Original Message ------
From: "John Stutz" <john.stutz@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 5 Oct, 2021 At 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [HOn3] FED 2-6-0 - look for ideas to fix derailing problems

 
   Martin describes a torque reaction problem: as the tender mounted motor twists the drive shaft one way, it tends to twist the tender the other way.    
 
 
   
 
 
   Ken's solution, as presented by Bill, absorbs this reaction in the drawbar by ensuring that the locomotive and tender cannot twist, much if at all, relative to each other. This may introduce weight transfer problems on vertical curves, which could be eliminated by slightly enlarging the two drawbar pin bushings at front and back.    
 
 
   
 
 
   Another is to ensure that the tender body cannot rock, relative to the track.  I see two ways to accomplish this with the usual shouldered tender screws and light washers between body and truck bolsters:  The first is to replace one of the washers with a pair of same thickness side bearings at the body bolster's outer ends.  The second is to replace one of the tender truck bolster springs with a heavier or lighter spring.  In either case the goal to ensure that the tender body follows one of the trucks because that truck is only free to rock fore-and-aft, while the other truck is also free to rock sideways.  In this, the first approach is more certain, while the second is much quicker.    
 
 
   
 
 
   John Stutz    
 
         


Martin Fischer
 

 

John,

 

thanks, very valuable information.

 

Kadee doesn't give any size information for their springs. I might return to that tip if it turns out that I need any springs for the trucks.

 

This probably is a language problem: Do you let the leaf spring rotate with the lead truck or is it fixed by the pivot screw?

 

Regards

Martin

 

 

 

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [HOn3] FED 2-6-0 - look for ideas to fix derailing problems

Datum: 2021-10-05T04:03:28+0200

Von: "John Stutz" <john.stutz@...>

An: "HOn3@groups.io" <HOn3@groups.io>

 

 

 

Martin
 
My go-to source for small coil springs are the replacements offered by Kadee for their larger scale centering springs.  Being mostly a bronze allow, they are easily cut to length to adjust spring rate, that is force versus  distortion.
 
Note that a lightly loaded coil spring under head of one of a car's truck screws will very effectivly eliminate car wobble.
 
For single axle lead trucks with the usual shouldered pivot screw and flat radius bar: I like a single phospher bronze leaf spring, about as wide as the radius bar, fixed under the screw's shoulder, and bearing about 1/3 out alonge the radius bar.  Its down-force is easily adjusted by simply bending it.  I have used 0.003" (.0075mm) hard phospher bronze purchased many years ago
 
John Stutz