Entry level models


Nigel Phillips
 

I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel


martin feldwick
 

sounds great

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 9:04 PM Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...> wrote:
I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel


Mark Lewis
 

Nigel,

I think that your guesstimate of HOn3 modelers, worldwide, is way low, as the numbers of members on the 2 main Facebook HOn3 groups, alone, are over 1,400 each. Also, when Blackstone was in full production, having a target sales audience of 500-750 HOn3 modelers worldwide, would not have been enough to justify producing any of the amazing RTR pieces of rolling stock or locomotives.

Mark Lewis
HOn3 modeling in North Carolina


On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 4:12 PM martin feldwick <trackpass@...> wrote:
sounds great

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 9:04 PM Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...> wrote:
I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel


Ian McKinley
 

This sounds like a very interesting project, can you provide us with a reference photo or online link?  I like the idea of a brass etched kit of basic parts. I would like to encourage you and please keep us up to date. Thanks

Ian McKinley

On 9/30/2021 3:04 PM, Nigel Phillips wrote:


I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel


martin feldwick
 

Prescion scale still make a full set of H0n3 C-16 running gear ,frams ,rods ,wheels . cabs ,domes ,chimmbleys  etc .TJ Prantle have them on ebay.
martin

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:35 PM Ian McKinley <ianmckinleyrailroad@...> wrote:

This sounds like a very interesting project, can you provide us with a
reference photo or online link?  I like the idea of a brass etched kit
of basic parts. I would like to encourage you and please keep us up to
date. Thanks

Ian McKinley

On 9/30/2021 3:04 PM, Nigel Phillips wrote:
>
>
> I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa
> 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass
> (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced
> separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash
> box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits
> wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the
> geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox.
> Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a
> gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders
> are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.
>
> Nigel






Earl Knoob
 

Back in the 1960's Ken Kidder imported a Porter 2-6-0.  The one I had didn't run too well, but it might be a starting point.  Also Gem Models (?) imported a small New Berlin & Winfield 2-6-0.  Other than the FED Spartan Series 2-6-0s, think that is it for HOn3 2-6-0 models.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 2:04 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel


Mike Conder
 

I wrote a whole response mentioning these but then hit the “Delete” button instead of send.   Sigh. 

Also remember that there were a number of brass C&S  locos imported, but I don’t know a lot about them.  And I forgot the NB&W loco. 

The Ken Kidder is pretty big, some say it’s closer to 1/72nd scale than HOn3.  And it was also imported as a SF engine too. 

The Spartans are tender drive but can be made into a good loco with a remotor and a LOT of detail parts.  May be exactly what you need since it needs to be customized and is a wagon too boiler IIRC. 

And someone is currently making a UV&P 2-6-0 with its distinctive three large domes as a 3D printing project, been seeing a bunch of posts of that lately. I think it’s only for the owner but who knows, pieces may be available eventually.  It is a proof of concept though. 

Mike Conder

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 7:56 PM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Back in the 1960's Ken Kidder imported a Porter 2-6-0.  The one I had didn't run too well, but it might be a starting point.  Also Gem Models (?) imported a small New Berlin & Winfield 2-6-0.  Other than the FED Spartan Series 2-6-0s, think that is it for HOn3 2-6-0 models.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 2:04 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel

--
Mike Conder


Mick Moignard
 

If the number of HOn3 modellers worldwide really is only 500-750 world wide, then I can see why Blackstone appear to have stopped making anything new.  I guess back in the day when Westside made thousands, literally, of C-16s there were many more HOn3 modellers, though many of those locos stayed in their boxes judging by the number that come up for sale as mint and unpainted models. You almost see more mint K-36s than painted and used ones, as well.

Contrast that to the number of members of the 009 society.  The membership of that are largely UK based, and there are thousands of them.  Look  at European narrow gauge; masses of it in HOe (9mm) and HOm (12mm, meter gauge), in plastic, and even some that runs on 6.5mm gauge. I am guessing here but I can imagine Blackstone looked at that market and felt that they could replicate it in HOn3.  Certainly they matched and possibly exceeded the European manufacturers on accuracy, detail levels and running qualities, but not in so much in sales as far as we can tell.   But then look at the prices that Blackstone stuff goes for at Brasstrains and on eBay….

Mick
________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.


Bodo Rasler
 

Mick,

 

if you look at how FAST things are selling at ‘Brasstrains’, there must be tons of HOn3 modelers. I have all Blackstone items on alert list with Brasstrains and the items are gone within a few hours !!

 

Where did you get that number 500-750 ?? If that is the case, I would assume that print publications would not sell at all.

 

Bodo Rasler

Berlin/Germany

 

From: HOn3@groups.io [mailto:HOn3@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mick Moignard
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2021 10:07
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Entry level models

 

If the number of HOn3 modellers worldwide really is only 500-750 world wide, then I can see why Blackstone appear to have stopped making anything new.  I guess back in the day when Westside made thousands, literally, of C-16s there were many more HOn3 modellers, though many of those locos stayed in their boxes judging by the number that come up for sale as mint and unpainted models. You almost see more mint K-36s than painted and used ones, as well.

 

Contrast that to the number of members of the 009 society.  The membership of that are largely UK based, and there are thousands of them.  Look  at European narrow gauge; masses of it in HOe (9mm) and HOm (12mm, meter gauge), in plastic, and even some that runs on 6.5mm gauge. I am guessing here but I can imagine Blackstone looked at that market and felt that they could replicate it in HOn3.  Certainly they matched and possibly exceeded the European manufacturers on accuracy, detail levels and running qualities, but not in so much in sales as far as we can tell.   But then look at the prices that Blackstone stuff goes for at Brasstrains and on eBay….

 

Mick

________________________________

Mick Moignard

m: +44 7774 652504

Skype: mickmoignard

 

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.

 


Nigel Phillips
 

Hi all,

Numbers? - Just a wild guess. By the sound of it several thousand. Active modelers versus collectors?

I used to belong to an even more rarified group of railroad modelers - UK broad gauge. Quite an amazing range of model kits and bits available (track to locomotives), all done by the Broad Gauge Society and pretty much at cost to members. 

I did some research on model locomotive manufacturing costs a few years back. It's basically a "third" system. One third manufacturing, one third retailer, one third consumer. A big slice of the manufacturing is the CAD/tooling, and that's an upfront cost to the retailer. Hence they need to know what the number of buyers will be before committing. The size of the run will depend on the selling price/number of buyers. A Blackstone model retailing for $500 probably cost around $160 to make plus the cost of the tooling. The other thing that is influencing what models get commercialized is the availability of prototypes. If there is a real one available then it can be laser scanned, which makes the process faster as it goes directly to a CAD format. Making changes to the tooling to model different variants is expensive, changing the paint scheme is not.

One of the consequences of this system is that popular railroads and prototypes are the ones that get modeled. I think that HOn3 modelers are very fortunate that one manufacturer is prepared to take on RTR models, albeit of one railroad.

Bottom line is that if it's not out there and as a modeler you don't want to compromise or what is available is questionable and/or requires extensive modification it really is DIY time. 

Nigel


On Friday, October 1, 2021, Bodo Rasler <raslerb@...> wrote:

Mick,

 

if you look at how FAST things are selling at ‘Brasstrains’, there must be tons of HOn3 modelers. I have all Blackstone items on alert list with Brasstrains and the items are gone within a few hours !!

 

Where did you get that number 500-750 ?? If that is the case, I would assume that print publications would not sell at all.

 

Bodo Rasler

Berlin/Germany

 

From: HOn3@groups.io [mailto:HOn3@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mick Moignard
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2021 10:07
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Entry level models

 

If the number of HOn3 modellers worldwide really is only 500-750 world wide, then I can see why Blackstone appear to have stopped making anything new.  I guess back in the day when Westside made thousands, literally, of C-16s there were many more HOn3 modellers, though many of those locos stayed in their boxes judging by the number that come up for sale as mint and unpainted models. You almost see more mint K-36s than painted and used ones, as well.

 

Contrast that to the number of members of the 009 society.  The membership of that are largely UK based, and there are thousands of them.  Look  at European narrow gauge; masses of it in HOe (9mm) and HOm (12mm, meter gauge), in plastic, and even some that runs on 6.5mm gauge. I am guessing here but I can imagine Blackstone looked at that market and felt that they could replicate it in HOn3.  Certainly they matched and possibly exceeded the European manufacturers on accuracy, detail levels and running qualities, but not in so much in sales as far as we can tell.   But then look at the prices that Blackstone stuff goes for at Brasstrains and on eBay….

 

Mick

________________________________

Mick Moignard

m: +44 7774 652504

Skype: mickmoignard

 

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.

 


Mick Moignard
 

Bodo

I didn’t originate the 500-750 figure.  I just extrapolated from it. I have no idea what the number of active HOn3 modellers is.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.


Mark Lewis
 

To Chris Lane/ Editor of the HOn3 Annuals:

Chris - hopefully you are reading this thread and can offer up some more accurate number of HOn3 modelers there are, world wide or at least in the US. 
The public record of the number of HOn3 Annuals that are printed each year, would be a better barometer of HOn3 modelers numbers, than wildly guessing. 

Thanks for any and all input you can add.

Mark Lewis 
HOn3 modeling in N.C.

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 11:07 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:
Bodo

I didn’t originate the 500-750 figure.  I just extrapolated from it. I have no idea what the number of active HOn3 modellers is.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.


claneon30
 

It is company policy, we don’t share our sales figures. However, I can tell you the number is more than 3X of Mick’s low figure. And sadly, try as I might, for every HOn3 modeler that buys and HOn3 Annual, there is at least 1 if not 2 that don’t.

My estimate of active (buying) HOn3 modelers is at minimum 2,750, and that is conservative. It may well be 1.5 to 2X that number.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual
chrislaneon30@...



On Oct 1, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:

To Chris Lane/ Editor of the HOn3 Annuals:

Chris - hopefully you are reading this thread and can offer up some more accurate number of HOn3 modelers there are, world wide or at least in the US. 
The public record of the number of HOn3 Annuals that are printed each year, would be a better barometer of HOn3 modelers numbers, than wildly guessing. 

Thanks for any and all input you can add.

Mark Lewis 
HOn3 modeling in N.C.

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 11:07 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:
Bodo

I didn’t originate the 500-750 figure.  I just extrapolated from it. I have no idea what the number of active HOn3 modellers is.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.





Mark Kasprowicz
 

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 01:06 AM, Mick Moignard wrote:
Certainly they matched and possibly exceeded the European manufacturers on accuracy, detail levels and running qualities, but not in so much in sales as far as we can tell.
Not sure about that. There were three runs of the K27 after all!
Mark K


Mark Lewis
 

Chris,

Thanks for your insight on the popularity of HOn3.

Mark Lewis 
HOn3 modeling in N.C.

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 12:18 PM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 01:06 AM, Mick Moignard wrote:
Certainly they matched and possibly exceeded the European manufacturers on accuracy, detail levels and running qualities, but not in so much in sales as far as we can tell.
Not sure about that. There were three runs of the K27 after all!
Mark K


Nigel Phillips
 

Thanks to all re the number of HOn3 modelers. The current status of available stock must be vey daunting to newcomers to this scale, especially if they are modeling something other than D&RG.

I went looking for some data this morning on the 2-6-0 prototype I am interested in. Baldwin work book from 1884 says page 140. And that page was missed when it was microfiched. So.....more research. 

Nigel









On Friday, October 1, 2021, Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 01:06 AM, Mick Moignard wrote:
Certainly they matched and possibly exceeded the European manufacturers on accuracy, detail levels and running qualities, but not in so much in sales as far as we can tell.
Not sure about that. There were three runs of the K27 after all!
Mark K


Russ Norris
 

Don, I bought my first HOn3 brass engine at a hobby shop in Huntingdon, PA back in the 1970's for around $40.  It was an FED Spartan 2-6-0.  I painted and lettered it and bought a DCC conversion kit but have yet to install it.  The little bugger ran OK on DC though.

Russ

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 7:15 PM Don Bergman <DBRenegade@...> wrote:



From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Earl Knoob <earlk489@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:56 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
Back in the 1960's Ken Kidder imported a Porter 2-6-0.  The one I had didn't run too well, but it might be a starting point.  Also Gem Models (?) imported a small New Berlin & Winfield 2-6-0.  Other than the FED Spartan Series 2-6-0s, think that is it for HOn3 2-6-0 models.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 2:04 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel


--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Climax@...
 

If it runs good on DC it will run good on DCC.

-----Original Message-----
From: <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Oct 1, 2021 7:43 PM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Entry level models


Don, I bought my first HOn3 brass engine at a hobby shop in Huntingdon, PA back in the 1970's for around $40.  It was an FED Spartan 2-6-0.  I painted and lettered it and bought a DCC conversion kit but have yet to install it.  The little bugger ran OK on DC though.
 
Russ

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 7:15 PM Don Bergman <DBRenegade@...> wrote:
 
 

From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Earl Knoob <earlk489@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:56 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
Back in the 1960's Ken Kidder imported a Porter 2-6-0.  The one I had didn't run too well, but it might be a starting point.  Also Gem Models (?) imported a small New Berlin & Winfield 2-6-0.  Other than the FED Spartan Series 2-6-0s, think that is it for HOn3 2-6-0 models.
 

From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 2:04 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel

--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/

 


Nigel Phillips
 

Hi Don,

There was a Cooke 2-6-0 by Lambert Associates as well.

Nigel

On Friday, October 1, 2021, Don Bergman <DBRenegade@...> wrote:



From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Earl Knoob <earlk489@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:56 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
Back in the 1960's Ken Kidder imported a Porter 2-6-0.  The one I had didn't run too well, but it might be a starting point.  Also Gem Models (?) imported a small New Berlin & Winfield 2-6-0.  Other than the FED Spartan Series 2-6-0s, think that is it for HOn3 2-6-0 models.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 2:04 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel


Earl Knoob
 

Yes... PFM imported a tender drive C&S 21 or 22 back in the 1960's as well.

Seems to me Key imported a C&S model in the 80's.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 8:47 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
Hi Don,

There was a Cooke 2-6-0 by Lambert Associates as well.

Nigel

On Friday, October 1, 2021, Don Bergman <DBRenegade@...> wrote:



From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Earl Knoob <earlk489@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:56 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
Back in the 1960's Ken Kidder imported a Porter 2-6-0.  The one I had didn't run too well, but it might be a starting point.  Also Gem Models (?) imported a small New Berlin & Winfield 2-6-0.  Other than the FED Spartan Series 2-6-0s, think that is it for HOn3 2-6-0 models.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 2:04 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Entry level models
 
I was looking at some older threads yesterday, basically the lack of RTR models that did not break the bank, and the somewhat restricted range (which is primarily D&RG and other western mountain lines). Plus the lack of suppliers. I know the number of HOn3 modelers worldwide is probably around 500-750, and the choice is either Blackstone, old brass, or old MDC/Roundhouse kits. I also noted that a UK company had been contacted with a view to making some models, but as far as I can see nothing ever came of it.

That struck home today when I started looking at what HOn3 Mogul models were out there. "Few and Far" it seems. And I would like to have 2 or 3 of them. Now the railroad I am modeling (the Alberta Railway and Coal/North Western Coal and Navigation Company) had pretty much an even mix of 2-8-0 and 2-6-0 locomotives, the latter functioning as passenger locomotives with drivers 41" in diameter (speed is relative with a mandatory depot stop every 8 miles), or freight/coal haulers with a driver diameter of 37". My 2-8-0 needs are going to be adequately met by West Side or similar models, but the choice in 2-6-0s is limited and none of them really match those of the Alberta companies. The same goes for the solitary 0-6-0 switcher. The layout I'm building will be a dual gauge system, finding a brass Canadian Pacific HO 2-6-0 circa 1900 (Van Horn Hobbies for example) for the standard gauge turns out to be a lot easier (and cheaper) than an old brass HOn3 2-6-0. Supply and demand I guess.

I am seriously considering drawing up a conical boiler 2-6-0 circa 1885-1900 with a view to getting some etches of the body done in brass (domes, pilot, crossheads, valves, bell, air pumps, etc. to be sourced separately, plenty of those bits around), including the frames, ash box, and rods in N/S. I'm leaning towards Alan Gibson or Markits wheels (1/8" axles), and a chassis-mounted motor and flywheel. If the geometry works out I might even have a narrow axle-mounted gearbox. Given the size limitations on the axle gear with such a small wheel a gearhead motor would be a possibility. No live axles or body. Tenders are less of an issue, there are kits out there as well as 3D prints.

Nigel