Dual gauge turnouts


Mike Conder
 

So with Shinohara dual gauge turnouts being scarce as hen's teeth, what is everyone doing for such items?  I'm guessing it's a make-your-own, if so does anyone have a good template for someone who hasn’t made such a beast before?

Mike Conder
--
Mike Conder


Alan Kilby
 

Fast tracks has #6 dual gauge printable template
Alan


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 11:17:12 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Dual gauge turnouts
 
So with Shinohara dual gauge turnouts being scarce as hen's teeth, what is everyone doing for such items?  I'm guessing it's a make-your-own, if so does anyone have a good template for someone who hasn’t made such a beast before?

Mike Conder
--
Mike Conder


Paul Buhrke
 

Mike:

I use Fast tracks templates with P/C board ties G00-ed down.
Start with either the outside or inside rail and then copious use of track gauges. 
If I can lay a dual gauge T/O anyone can, believe me.

--
Paul Buhrke
D&RGW Salida Division
Lost in the Black Canyon in 1929


Scale Brass Mechanic
 

Mike you might not know but I built turnouts before mechanicing on locos. Give me a call see what we can work out. Fuzzy for 👍🚂 Scale Brass Mechanic 


Nigel Phillips
 

Hi Mike,

I'm slowly building a dual gauge #8 stub at the moment. I use Templot2 to prepare the paper templates. Complicated by the fact that it's on a curve - more like a curved Wye actually. The templates are intended for building track. Software is free, downside is the steep learning curve (new users are warned it is not layout planning software). A fair amount of computer work is invoved for dual gauge as it involves super-imposing two templates (standard and narrow gauge) and a lot of manual adjustment of timbers. Upside is accuracy, frogs from #4-#12, user defined tie sizes and spacing, user defined rail dimensions, length of point blades, length of guard and wing rails, defined transition parameters....Intended primarily for UK modeling, it works just as well for US practices. NMRA HO track is in the menue, HOn3 is a user defined item. I matched my HOn3 track parameters to those of ME. I've been using the software for over 8 years. There are limitations, but usually a way around them. Large database of user solutions.

Fast tracks have jigs ($185-$190 depending on rail code) plus downloadable scale plans (free). If you have the frog and point jig already and you can live with the cost of the template jig, have lots to make, and a #6 frog is OK, it's the way to go. Five or more is probably the decision point.  The most cost-effective way for a few turnouts is paper templates and their frog/point jigs. The point form jig for dual gauge #6 is $60. I have #s 4, 6, and 8 regular jigs. Not sure that the small difference in the secondary frog is worth another jig for dual gauge, and I would need a #8 anyway. Although the plans are intended for layout planning they can be used for building turnouts. Fast Tracks is Canada-based, they ship to the US using USPS.

Nigel

On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
So with Shinohara dual gauge turnouts being scarce as hen's teeth, what is everyone doing for such items?  I'm guessing it's a make-your-own, if so does anyone have a good template for someone who hasn’t made such a beast before?

Mike Conder
--
Mike Conder


Alan Kilby
 

I use 8.5x11cardstock paper I get at Walmart to print working fasttracks drawing,it's printer friendly, doesn't jam on my printers.Regular copy paper tears to easily.
Alan


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 9:00:09 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Dual gauge turnouts
 
Hi Mike,

I'm slowly building a dual gauge #8 stub at the moment. I use Templot2 to prepare the paper templates. Complicated by the fact that it's on a curve - more like a curved Wye actually. The templates are intended for building track. Software is free, downside is the steep learning curve (new users are warned it is not layout planning software). A fair amount of computer work is invoved for dual gauge as it involves super-imposing two templates (standard and narrow gauge) and a lot of manual adjustment of timbers. Upside is accuracy, frogs from #4-#12, user defined tie sizes and spacing, user defined rail dimensions, length of point blades, length of guard and wing rails, defined transition parameters....Intended primarily for UK modeling, it works just as well for US practices. NMRA HO track is in the menue, HOn3 is a user defined item. I matched my HOn3 track parameters to those of ME. I've been using the software for over 8 years. There are limitations, but usually a way around them. Large database of user solutions.

Fast tracks have jigs ($185-$190 depending on rail code) plus downloadable scale plans (free). If you have the frog and point jig already and you can live with the cost of the template jig, have lots to make, and a #6 frog is OK, it's the way to go. Five or more is probably the decision point.  The most cost-effective way for a few turnouts is paper templates and their frog/point jigs. The point form jig for dual gauge #6 is $60. I have #s 4, 6, and 8 regular jigs. Not sure that the small difference in the secondary frog is worth another jig for dual gauge, and I would need a #8 anyway. Although the plans are intended for layout planning they can be used for building turnouts. Fast Tracks is Canada-based, they ship to the US using USPS.

Nigel

On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
So with Shinohara dual gauge turnouts being scarce as hen's teeth, what is everyone doing for such items?  I'm guessing it's a make-your-own, if so does anyone have a good template for someone who hasn’t made such a beast before?

Mike Conder
--
Mike Conder


Nigel Phillips
 

Hammermill Premium, 24lb., works well. Avoid cheap low weight economy copy paper, especially with a laser printer. The heat can shrink the paper (inkjet printers can cause it to expand or warp). The laser printer is calibrated for Templot2 printouts.

Nigel


On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Alan Kilby <alankilby@...> wrote:
I use 8.5x11cardstock paper I get at Walmart to print working fasttracks drawing,it's printer friendly, doesn't jam on my printers.Regular copy paper tears to easily.
Alan


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 9:00:09 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Dual gauge turnouts
 
Hi Mike,

I'm slowly building a dual gauge #8 stub at the moment. I use Templot2 to prepare the paper templates. Complicated by the fact that it's on a curve - more like a curved Wye actually. The templates are intended for building track. Software is free, downside is the steep learning curve (new users are warned it is not layout planning software). A fair amount of computer work is invoved for dual gauge as it involves super-imposing two templates (standard and narrow gauge) and a lot of manual adjustment of timbers. Upside is accuracy, frogs from #4-#12, user defined tie sizes and spacing, user defined rail dimensions, length of point blades, length of guard and wing rails, defined transition parameters....Intended primarily for UK modeling, it works just as well for US practices. NMRA HO track is in the menue, HOn3 is a user defined item. I matched my HOn3 track parameters to those of ME. I've been using the software for over 8 years. There are limitations, but usually a way around them. Large database of user solutions.

Fast tracks have jigs ($185-$190 depending on rail code) plus downloadable scale plans (free). If you have the frog and point jig already and you can live with the cost of the template jig, have lots to make, and a #6 frog is OK, it's the way to go. Five or more is probably the decision point.  The most cost-effective way for a few turnouts is paper templates and their frog/point jigs. The point form jig for dual gauge #6 is $60. I have #s 4, 6, and 8 regular jigs. Not sure that the small difference in the secondary frog is worth another jig for dual gauge, and I would need a #8 anyway. Although the plans are intended for layout planning they can be used for building turnouts. Fast Tracks is Canada-based, they ship to the US using USPS.

Nigel

On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
So with Shinohara dual gauge turnouts being scarce as hen's teeth, what is everyone doing for such items?  I'm guessing it's a make-your-own, if so does anyone have a good template for someone who hasn’t made such a beast before?

Mike Conder
--
Mike Conder


Mike Conder
 

Good idea, and not just for turnouts!

Mike Conder

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:07 AM Alan Kilby <alankilby@...> wrote:
I use 8.5x11cardstock paper I get at Walmart to print working fasttracks drawing,it's printer friendly, doesn't jam on my printers.Regular copy paper tears to easily.
Alan


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 9:00:09 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Dual gauge turnouts
 
Hi Mike,

I'm slowly building a dual gauge #8 stub at the moment. I use Templot2 to prepare the paper templates. Complicated by the fact that it's on a curve - more like a curved Wye actually. The templates are intended for building track. Software is free, downside is the steep learning curve (new users are warned it is not layout planning software). A fair amount of computer work is invoved for dual gauge as it involves super-imposing two templates (standard and narrow gauge) and a lot of manual adjustment of timbers. Upside is accuracy, frogs from #4-#12, user defined tie sizes and spacing, user defined rail dimensions, length of point blades, length of guard and wing rails, defined transition parameters....Intended primarily for UK modeling, it works just as well for US practices. NMRA HO track is in the menue, HOn3 is a user defined item. I matched my HOn3 track parameters to those of ME. I've been using the software for over 8 years. There are limitations, but usually a way around them. Large database of user solutions.

Fast tracks have jigs ($185-$190 depending on rail code) plus downloadable scale plans (free). If you have the frog and point jig already and you can live with the cost of the template jig, have lots to make, and a #6 frog is OK, it's the way to go. Five or more is probably the decision point.  The most cost-effective way for a few turnouts is paper templates and their frog/point jigs. The point form jig for dual gauge #6 is $60. I have #s 4, 6, and 8 regular jigs. Not sure that the small difference in the secondary frog is worth another jig for dual gauge, and I would need a #8 anyway. Although the plans are intended for layout planning they can be used for building turnouts. Fast Tracks is Canada-based, they ship to the US using USPS.

Nigel

On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
So with Shinohara dual gauge turnouts being scarce as hen's teeth, what is everyone doing for such items?  I'm guessing it's a make-your-own, if so does anyone have a good template for someone who hasn’t made such a beast before?

Mike Conder
--
Mike Conder

--
Mike Conder


Bill Lugg
 

Before I started using FastTracks Jigs, I would print their templates
very carefully to make sure I got them exactly to full size and rubber
cement right and left to opposite sides of a piece of Corian counter
material.  I'd them drill several holes through (using a carbide bit) at
key locations and tap to #6.  I'd then cut 0.06 x 0.25 brass bar stock
to appropriate lengths to act as clamps.  My rail filing was all done by
hand, curves were formed between my fingers by trial and error against
the templates.  First I'd solder the frog on the template. Then I'd put
the PCB ties in the appropriate places, lay the rails on them and with a
lot o gauge work get the clamps tightened down to hold it all in place
so I could solder it all up.

It worked pretty well, but was tedious.  Ah, the good old days.  By the
way, I didn't come up with this myself, I read about it in a magazine
somewhere...Might have been the Gazette.  I"m not that creative.

Bill Lugg

On 1/16/22 10:00 AM, Nigel Phillips wrote:
Hi Mike,

I'm slowly building a dual gauge #8 stub at the moment. I use Templot2
to prepare the paper templates. Complicated by the fact that it's on a
curve - more like a curved Wye actually. The templates are intended
for building track. Software is free, downside is the steep learning
curve (new users are warned it is not layout planning software). A
fair amount of computer work is invoved for dual gauge as it involves
super-imposing two templates (standard and narrow gauge) and a lot of
manual adjustment of timbers. Upside is accuracy, frogs from #4-#12,
user defined tie sizes and spacing, user defined rail dimensions,
length of point blades, length of guard and wing rails, defined
transition parameters....Intended primarily for UK modeling, it works
just as well for US practices. NMRA HO track is in the menue, HOn3 is
a user defined item. I matched my HOn3 track parameters to those of
ME. I've been using the software for over 8 years. There are
limitations, but usually a way around them. Large database of user
solutions.

Fast tracks have jigs ($185-$190 depending on rail code) plus
downloadable scale plans (free). If you have the frog and point jig
already and you can live with the cost of the template jig, have lots
to make, and a #6 frog is OK, it's the way to go. Five or more is
probably the decision point.  The most cost-effective way for a few
turnouts is paper templates and their frog/point jigs. The point form
jig for dual gauge #6 is $60. I have #s 4, 6, and 8 regular jigs. Not
sure that the small difference in the secondary frog is worth another
jig for dual gauge, and I would need a #8 anyway. Although the plans
are intended for layout planning they can be used for building
turnouts. Fast Tracks is Canada-based, they ship to the US using USPS.

Nigel

On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@gmail.com
<mailto:vulturenest1@gmail.com>> wrote:

So with Shinohara dual gauge turnouts being scarce as hen's teeth,
what is everyone doing for such items?  I'm guessing it's a
make-your-own, if so does anyone have a good template for someone
who hasn’t made such a beast before?

Mike Conder
--
Mike Conder


John Stutz
 


Turnout builders might profit by looking up an article by once noted MR author Jack Work, on building turnouts in place.  This describes a way to build turnouts to any combination of curves that you can lay out, using spiked rail on wooden ties.  No jigs.  No templates.  Just track gauges, files, soldering iron, and spiking pliers.  the approach should be adaptable for glued or soldered rail as well.  Published in MR, probably in the later 1960's.

Of course, the Fast Tracks filing tools are a great help in filing points, and their templates can give you a good idea of how to proportion your turnout's elements.  But turnout building is fairly straightforward. 

John Stutz


Mike Conder
 

I do have a Fastracks jig for HOn3 TO's and know the dual gauge can be done, by it sometimes it's better to use the time resources on things other than making dual gauge TO's. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 6:38 PM John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:

Turnout builders might profit by looking up an article by once noted MR author Jack Work, on building turnouts in place.  This describes a way to build turnouts to any combination of curves that you can lay out, using spiked rail on wooden ties.  No jigs.  No templates.  Just track gauges, files, soldering iron, and spiking pliers.  the approach should be adaptable for glued or soldered rail as well.  Published in MR, probably in the later 1960's.

Of course, the Fast Tracks filing tools are a great help in filing points, and their templates can give you a good idea of how to proportion your turnout's elements.  But turnout building is fairly straightforward. 

John Stutz

--
Mike Conder


Alan Kilby
 

There's a good article on the railway engineering website on building HOn3 turnout.This shows how to make frogs and form points.Alan


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:43:23 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Dual gauge turnouts
 
I do have a Fastracks jig for HOn3 TO's and know the dual gauge can be done, by it sometimes it's better to use the time resources on things other than making dual gauge TO's. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 6:38 PM John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:

Turnout builders might profit by looking up an article by once noted MR author Jack Work, on building turnouts in place.  This describes a way to build turnouts to any combination of curves that you can lay out, using spiked rail on wooden ties.  No jigs.  No templates.  Just track gauges, files, soldering iron, and spiking pliers.  the approach should be adaptable for glued or soldered rail as well.  Published in MR, probably in the later 1960's.

Of course, the Fast Tracks filing tools are a great help in filing points, and their templates can give you a good idea of how to proportion your turnout's elements.  But turnout building is fairly straightforward. 

John Stutz

--
Mike Conder


Spike
 

Mike, I make all mine... printable templates from Fasttracks for the standard stuff.  Flex track and tracing for the not-so-standard.

Double stick tape.  PC board from Clover House.  get the dual gauge Rollee Holders from Hatch (there's a second source but can't think of them). or heck, just print rail holders.  Use Steve Hatch's methods for frogs. Goes pretty Quick, really.

I did finally by the filing tools from Fasttracks, and the rail bender.  Got the #6 filing jig and use it #4 thru #6.

Spike


John Hutnick
 

What is the "railway engineering" site?


Mark Lewis
 

John,

https://www.railwayeng.com/ 

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


Nigel Phillips
 

First turnout kit I made came with a printed sheet template, rails, solder, PCB strips for the ties, tie rod, track gauge/rail spacer (rectangle of aluminum), and a tie rod (PCB core with brass rivets). Recommended tools were basically nippers and a decent file. Worked well, rails were held in place with map pins during soldering. Frogs and points shaped with the file. I later moved on to making my own wooden jigs for filing frogs and point blades using a Dremel with a cut-off blade.

The Fast Tracks rail fixtures takes the guesswork out of the process, but for a HO/HOn3 turnout the jig has some limitations. Only a #6 frog, and it needs separate jigs for each rail code (55, 70, or 83), and assumes that the PCB tie spacing you want is what is on the jig. If you want anything other than a #6, or a different tie arrangement, it's either DIY or a commercial hand-built offering (for around $50-$70, Jamestown Trains for example has them for $55-$60, Narrow Gauge Trader for $46, there are others, they all appear to use Fast Tracks tools). If you only want one or two of these and a #6 frog, the Fast Tracks system is simply not cost effective ($185-$190 for the fixture depending on the rail code and $60 for the point/frog tool).Get somebody to build one for you if you are not into the black arts of soldering. If you want a straight dual gauge turnout in anything other than a #6, a curved dual gauge turnout or a wye, then it's DIY or special order commercial handbuilt offerings.

I build my own turnouts in HO and EM  (18.2mm gauge using code 75 Bullhead rails rather than flat bottomed ones for those not familiar with this niche) as I want control of a larger number of parameters (hence Templot2). Not enough to justify a complete set of Fast Tracks tools though. I need probably 3 HO/HOn3 dual gauge turnouts, as well as a couple of dual gauge to HOn3 turnouts. I already have a selection of point/frog jigs, so all that's left to do is to draw up a template..Rather than the NMRA tool (which is not currently available for HOn3), I use 3-leg track gauges and rollers, and make my own spacers as required.

 I use DS tape to hold the PBC ties in place on the template, the Fast Tracks point/frog to make the blades, cork board pins to hold the rails in place over the template while soldering, and 3 leg track gauges. The printed template is held in place on cork board tiles with masking tape.

Giving it some thought, it should be possible to use a standard RTR HO turnout from ME(or even Atlas) and simply graft the additional HOn3 rail in place using substitute PCB ties. The only fiddly bit would be the secondary frog and the point blade. A frog and blade from ME would probably work. #6 only though. Don't discount this method, I once made an On30 stub wye from an Atlas HO wye. I've seen decent frogs made in code 55 rail by simply notching the head and foot and bending the rail to the required angle. Blunt frog end without any filing! Just needs the head touching up with a fine flat file.

Nigel



On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:30 AM Spike <redmountainspike@...> wrote:
Mike, I make all mine... printable templates from Fasttracks for the standard stuff.  Flex track and tracing for the not-so-standard.

Double stick tape.  PC board from Clover House.  get the dual gauge Rollee Holders from Hatch (there's a second source but can't think of them). or heck, just print rail holders.  Use Steve Hatch's methods for frogs. Goes pretty Quick, really.

I did finally by the filing tools from Fasttracks, and the rail bender.  Got the #6 filing jig and use it #4 thru #6.

Spike


Mike Conder
 

So after all these good suggestions I'm talking with a guy who can make me a few TO's. I then went to the Fast Tracks site to get a template for planning purposes.  I found the dual gauge templates easily enough but can't find the paper templates.  

So does anyone have a PDF copy I could have or the correct link to these templates?

Mike Conder


Alan Kilby
 

The fasttracks site templates are printable and print to scale,as long as you have printer. It tells you what settings for printer when you download template.I print them out on thick smooth( paper I use is about the same as thick recipe cards) printer size paper for working template,no need to buy templates and if you damage one just print out another.I have used 4 different printers and they printed perfectly.
Alan



From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 9:06:11 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Dual gauge turnouts
 
So after all these good suggestions I'm talking with a guy who can make me a few TO's. I then went to the Fast Tracks site to get a template for planning purposes.  I found the dual gauge templates easily enough but can't find the paper templates.  

So does anyone have a PDF copy I could have or the correct link to these templates?

Mike Conder


Mike Conder
 

Oh I found those and have done that, but can't find the dual gauge templates on the website.  

Mike Conder

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 11:49 PM Alan Kilby <alankilby@...> wrote:
The fasttracks site templates are printable and print to scale,as long as you have printer. It tells you what settings for printer when you download template.I print them out on thick smooth( paper I use is about the same as thick recipe cards) printer size paper for working template,no need to buy templates and if you damage one just print out another.I have used 4 different printers and they printed perfectly.
Alan



From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 9:06:11 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Dual gauge turnouts
 
So after all these good suggestions I'm talking with a guy who can make me a few TO's. I then went to the Fast Tracks site to get a template for planning purposes.  I found the dual gauge templates easily enough but can't find the paper templates.  

So does anyone have a PDF copy I could have or the correct link to these templates?

Mike Conder

--
Mike Conder


Mark Kasprowicz
 
Edited

They are there - just look a little closer. https://www.handlaidtrack.com/track-templates-dual