diaphragms for coaches


Robert Furrer
 

Hi, it’s been a while since I last visited here, So I’m not sure whether I missed this topic in the past.

 

I have two HOn3 closed vestibule coaches, one a brass model, the other one an E&B Valley kit that is still unassembled. Turns out, both come without diaphragms. Though the E&B Valley instructions mention diaphragms having been prototypical. But they specifically state that they did not include any to the kit.

 

I’d actually like to finish the brass model and thought I could use the diaphragms from the plastic kit. Having only then realized the kit does not come with any. So I wonder what could be used as a substitute. I’m not looking for a functioning version. In fact, the other brass coaches I have come with “simple” rubber models that are about 2 ½ millimeters thick (just a bit over 1/16th of an inch). And these diaphragm models are essentially rectangular “rings” with flat ends on both sides. They measure about 12 x 25 mm. Thus must be considerably smaller that diaphragms for standard sized HO cars.

Any ideas where such items could be obtained? Or do I best kit-bash them out of cardboard and thin end papers that I can then paint black?

 

Greetings from Switzerland,

 

Robert


wayne_h_sanderson
 

Precision Scale Company, Passenger and Freight Car parts, page 23- Passenger car diaphragms, a couple of choices available. If they aren't a perfect fit you should be able to adapt them..


David Zolnierek
 

Robert,     I have  the parts for one Labelle  closed end vestibule coach as shown in the attached picture .  they are a folded paper and styrene 

 

If you can use let me know

 

 

David

 

David  Zolnierek

25009  US 23 South

Presque Isle, MI.  49777

 

Preserving the History of Red Mountain

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Art D3
 

I have been working on a similar project for my passenger cars. No commercially available diaphragms I have found are small enough for narrow gauge cars. I have tried unsuccessfully to modify some of the commercial parts to create functional diaphragms. I finally modeled an accurate unit in CAD. Below are photos of the 3D printed CAD model. I was hoping to use a highly flexible printing media. I recently purchased some "flexible" resin to test, but I am not convinced that it will have a material durometer soft enough to be functional when the diaphragms need to compress on a curve without derailing the car. My next attempt will be to create a mold and cast the diaphragm in silicone rubber. Instead of a single casting as I had hoped, the leaf spring unit will likely be a separate casting to mold successfully. I will keep the group posted on my progress.

CAD render



Some photos of the 3D printed diaphragm in standard resin and against the end of my HOn3 LaBelle parlor car under construction. 3D printing would be the best approach since it eliminates all of the issues that mold making has such as undercuts. I'm trying to finish this project as the parlor car is the last car I need to submit towards my AP Master Car Builder certificate.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Ric Case
 

Art I have looked for them also! Your printed model looks great! I have access to a printer , any possibility of sharing your stl file! 
Just wondering! 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On May 21, 2021, at 10:19 AM, Art D3 <apdutra3@...> wrote:

I have been working on a similar project for my passenger cars. No commercially available diaphragms I have found are small enough for narrow gauge cars. I have tried unsuccessfully to modify some of the commercial parts to create functional diaphragms. I finally modeled an accurate unit in CAD. Below are photos of the 3D printed CAD model. I was hoping to use a highly flexible printing media. I recently purchased some "flexible" resin to test, but I am not convinced that it will have a material durometer soft enough to be functional when the diaphragms need to compress on a curve without derailing the car. My next attempt will be to create a mold and cast the diaphragm in silicone rubber. Instead of a single casting as I had hoped, the leaf spring unit will likely be a separate casting to mold successfully. I will keep the group posted on my progress.
<Screen Shot 05212021.png>

CAD render


<Diaphragm3.jpg>
<Diaphragm2.jpg>
<Diaphragm1.jpg>

Some photos of the 3D printed diaphragm in standard resin and against the end of my HOn3 LaBelle parlor car under construction. 3D printing would be the best approach since it eliminates all of the issues that mold making has such as undercuts. I'm trying to finish this project as the parlor car is the last car I need to submit towards my AP Master Car Builder certificate.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Mark Lewis
 

Art,

Following your project. The print looks great.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Fri, May 21, 2021, 10:28 AM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Art I have looked for them also! Your printed model looks great! I have access to a printer , any possibility of sharing your stl file! 
Just wondering! 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On May 21, 2021, at 10:19 AM, Art D3 <apdutra3@...> wrote:

I have been working on a similar project for my passenger cars. No commercially available diaphragms I have found are small enough for narrow gauge cars. I have tried unsuccessfully to modify some of the commercial parts to create functional diaphragms. I finally modeled an accurate unit in CAD. Below are photos of the 3D printed CAD model. I was hoping to use a highly flexible printing media. I recently purchased some "flexible" resin to test, but I am not convinced that it will have a material durometer soft enough to be functional when the diaphragms need to compress on a curve without derailing the car. My next attempt will be to create a mold and cast the diaphragm in silicone rubber. Instead of a single casting as I had hoped, the leaf spring unit will likely be a separate casting to mold successfully. I will keep the group posted on my progress.
<Screen Shot 05212021.png>

CAD render


<Diaphragm3.jpg>
<Diaphragm2.jpg>
<Diaphragm1.jpg>

Some photos of the 3D printed diaphragm in standard resin and against the end of my HOn3 LaBelle parlor car under construction. 3D printing would be the best approach since it eliminates all of the issues that mold making has such as undercuts. I'm trying to finish this project as the parlor car is the last car I need to submit towards my AP Master Car Builder certificate.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Mick Moignard
 


Making working gangways isn’t hard. This has a tunnel of brass that slides in the coach end, curved to the top corners and a separate soldered in floor. End plate is also brass soldered to the tunnel. Second plate is similar with a sliding for on the tunnel. Halved Kadee springs are soldere to the centre plate both sides at the top centre and the two bottom corners. Slides into the end of the car.  Retainers are soldered to the tunnel to stop it falling out. 

I’ve made a dozen or so sets of these and have them on Key, Soho and PSC cars. With practice a pair take no more than a couple of hours to make.

Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!


Art D3
 

Beautiful work, Mick! That was my other thought, except 3D printed. A two piece unit with Kadee springs. I may have to go back to the CAD drawing board.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Art D3
 

Stay tuned Mark. My test print with Siraya Tech Tenacious flexible resin is complete. As I suspected, this resin is just too firm and would derail a car before compressing. I will try to incorporate Mick's work into the next print version using Kadee springs.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Mark Lewis
 

Art,

Thanks for the update!

Mark Lewis 

On Fri, May 21, 2021, 10:31 PM Art D3 <apdutra3@...> wrote:
Stay tuned Mark. My test print with Siraya Tech Tenacious flexible resin is complete. As I suspected, this resin is just too firm and would derail a car before compressing. I will try to incorporate Mick's work into the next print version using Kadee springs.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Art D3
 

Just a quick update. I've gone through several iterations of a working diaphragm produced by 3D printing and I'm close to a functional prototype. Waiting on springs to arrive to complete some testing. I'll post some pictures shortly. It's one of several projects on the workbench.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Mark Lewis
 

Art,

👍🏼👍🏼

Mark Lewis 

On Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:53 AM Art D3 <apdutra3@...> wrote:
Just a quick update. I've gone through several iterations of a working diaphragm produced by 3D printing and I'm close to a functional prototype. Waiting on springs to arrive to complete some testing. I'll post some pictures shortly. It's one of several projects on the workbench.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Robert Furrer
 

Hi David,

I'm sorry for the late reply. I was gone a few days, and did not have time to go through all the mail before I left.

Thanks for your kind offer, but the diaphragms would look too different from what I have on the other cars. So I need something smaller and thinner, more just to mark the presence, but without being too prominent.

Best regards, 

Robert Furrer


Von: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> im Auftrag von David Zolnierek <davidzolnierek@...>
Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Mai 2021 12:24
An: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [HOn3] diaphragms for coaches
 

Robert,     I have  the parts for one Labelle  closed end vestibule coach as shown in the attached picture .  they are a folded paper and styrene 

 

If you can use let me know

 

 

David

 

David  Zolnierek

25009  US 23 South

Presque Isle, MI.  49777

 

Preserving the History of Red Mountain

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Art D3
 

I am testing the current version of my 3D printed operating diaphragms and they seem to be working well so far. I need to do a little more testing, but I think they'll work well in this current version. Thanks for the inspiration of your brass versions Mick Moignard! I did not include any simulated bellows like Mick did because it was limiting the travel of the diaphragms too much with printed versions. The diaphragms are designed to use between 2 and 6 Kadee #622 springs to provide the tension between the diaphragms. With six springs installed, you can carefully slide a pick between the diaphragms for manual uncoupling, but you do risk derailing cars. A better way to uncouple would be a Kadee magnetic uncoupler. Park the cars over the uncoupler and gently push the two cars towards each other to get some slack for the couplers to operate. I plan to run my San Juan trains through a reversing loop so I won't need to uncouple frequently. Since these two cars are still under construction I have not installed the leaf spring prints yet. They can be installed so that they won't interfere with the diaphragms operation while still adding the detail which will also partially conceal the springs on top, or they can be left off.


I will be adding these to my offerings on https://3dptrain.com the new website created by Western Rails which will offer Western Rails products and printed products from other content providers hopefully at better pricing than Shapeways. My items will be under Narrow Gauge Technologies.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Mark Lewis
 

Art,

Thanks for the update!

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:08 AM Art D3 <apdutra3@...> wrote:
I am testing the current version of my 3D printed operating diaphragms and they seem to be working well so far. I need to do a little more testing, but I think they'll work well in this current version. Thanks for the inspiration of your brass versions Mick Moignard! I did not include any simulated bellows like Mick did because it was limiting the travel of the diaphragms too much with printed versions. The diaphragms are designed to use between 2 and 6 Kadee #622 springs to provide the tension between the diaphragms. With six springs installed, you can carefully slide a pick between the diaphragms for manual uncoupling, but you do risk derailing cars. A better way to uncouple would be a Kadee magnetic uncoupler. Park the cars over the uncoupler and gently push the two cars towards each other to get some slack for the couplers to operate. I plan to run my San Juan trains through a reversing loop so I won't need to uncouple frequently. Since these two cars are still under construction I have not installed the leaf spring prints yet. They can be installed so that they won't interfere with the diaphragms operation while still adding the detail which will also partially conceal the springs on top, or they can be left off.


I will be adding these to my offerings on https://3dptrain.com the new website created by Western Rails which will offer Western Rails products and printed products from other content providers hopefully at better pricing than Shapeways. My items will be under Narrow Gauge Technologies.
--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Mick Moignard
 

Art

Glad to have inspired them and thanks for the shoutout.  Wanna send me a pair and I’ll try them out on a new coach I obtained recently!

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.


Nigel Phillips
 

For those who like DIY and "it looks fine from 3 feet" try some origami with thin grey craft paper. Google [Elgin model railway club gangways]. No metal springs required. Resize from 4mm scale, add plastic ends using CAA, attach to coach using PVA, cost about 10¢ a pair. Weather with powder or the printer. They work like a real concertina going around bends.

Nigel


On Friday, June 25, 2021, Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:
Art

Glad to have inspired them and thanks for the shoutout.  Wanna send me a pair and I’ll try them out on a new coach I obtained recently!

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.


Mark Lewis
 

Here is the direct link, to Nigel's suggestion:


Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 11:05 AM Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...> wrote:
For those who like DIY and "it looks fine from 3 feet" try some origami with thin grey craft paper. Google [Elgin model railway club gangways]. No metal springs required. Resize from 4mm scale, add plastic ends using CAA, attach to coach using PVA, cost about 10¢ a pair. Weather with powder or the printer. They work like a real concertina going around bends.

Nigel

On Friday, June 25, 2021, Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:
Art

Glad to have inspired them and thanks for the shoutout.  Wanna send me a pair and I’ll try them out on a new coach I obtained recently!

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.