Topics

D&RG early 2-8-0

Brian Kopp
 

Has anybody looked at the C-16s on the market with  the thought of creating one of those first 56,000 pound Baldwin 10-24Es that the D&RG bought? Apparently none survived until reclassification or we might have had a C-14 or 15.......

 A little short-lived narrow gauge railroad called the Silver City, Deming and Pacific apparently got 4 of the D&RG 10-24Es right from the factory. The D&RG spec sheet even says  to paint AT&SF on the 4 tenders (The SCD&P was bought by the AT&SF in 1884).

I was thinking about a little HOn3 shelf layout for this 60 mile desert railroad between Silver City and Deming NM. I could put a C-16 on the layout but I would like to find the best one (most early looking one?) to mimic that slightly earlier class.

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL.

Bruce Dunlevy
 

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


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Brian Kopp
 

Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Ken Martin
 

Brian,

While none of the D&RG class 56’s survived the DSP&P 191 a class 56, did survive and is at the Colorado RR Museum today.

Ken Martin


On Sep 7, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:

Has anybody looked at the C-16s on the market with  the thought of creating one of those first 56,000 pound Baldwin 10-24Es that the D&RG bought? Apparently none survived until reclassification or we might have had a C-14 or 15.......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL.
_._,_._,_

Mike Conder
 

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Robert Veefkind
 



In a message dated 9/7/2019 2:22:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, vulturenest1@... writes:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos
But the tenders were quite a bit lower.    Bob V.

Brian Kopp
 

Bob (and everyone) are there any good photos to be found of the Class 56 locos? I know the Class 56 (10-24E) drawing is in the Baldwin narrow gauge loco book but I haven't done a deep dive on any of the other D&RG books yet....

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Brian Kopp
 

Mike I have heard the Kemtron C-16 kits are challenging. That said I solder all the time for my work so maybe I can fumble thru a couple of them if I can find them....

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Lee Gustafson
 

The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


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Mike Conder
 

Exactly.  And why I'm looking at doing the same but using a Westside C-16 as the donor mech with Kemtron details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:59 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


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Mike Conder
 

The early Class 60 locos look virtually identical to the early Class 56 locos.  Also, the early Class 70 (later C-19) locos are almost identical in most details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:21 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Bob (and everyone) are there any good photos to be found of the Class 56 locos? I know the Class 56 (10-24E) drawing is in the Baldwin narrow gauge loco book but I haven't done a deep dive on any of the other D&RG books yet....

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Lee Gustafson
 

The new owners of Precision Scale Models in Washington state are listing many of the original C-16 parts on eBay. I believe a call to them during business hours may provide more information. I’ll see if I can find their phone number.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Exactly.  And why I'm looking at doing the same but using a Westside C-16 as the donor mech with Kemtron details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:59 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


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Lee Gustafson
 

PF&S railway supply phone number 509 528 9711 may have C-16 parts. They’re located in Pasco, Washington.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Exactly.  And why I'm looking at doing the same but using a Westside C-16 as the donor mech with Kemtron details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:59 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Mike Conder
 

Excellent!  I used a bunch of these in my Class 70 conversion of the BS C-19 a few years back ) see an old HOn3 Annual for details).  Glad to hear the parts are back available, I got mine from Coronado.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 6:32 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The new owners of Precision Scale Models in Washington state are listing many of the original C-16 parts on eBay. I believe a call to them during business hours may provide more information. I’ll see if I can find their phone number.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Exactly.  And why I'm looking at doing the same but using a Westside C-16 as the donor mech with Kemtron details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:59 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Brian Kopp
 

Thanks for all the great ideas everybody. Maybe a mix of this and that details on top of a decent mechanism is the better way to go...

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Brian Kopp
 

Ken, thanks for the note on the #191. I just double checked the roster in my copy of Poor's DSP&P, and you are right of course. Then I remembered my photos from my trip to the CRM a few months ago and found a couple of the fireman's side and smoke box area of 191. See attached. My photos and the great engineer's side photos in Ferrell's DRG Early Years text should give me plenty to get started with.....

Wished I had started to look around at my own books and photos before I bothered you guys with the photo question a few hours ago.....

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Brian Kopp
 

Here is the smokebox area photo I meant to include......wish the sun had been at a better angle for these......

Brian Kopp

jczul36
 

Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

jczul36
 

Lee,I did the blackstone to see if it could be done.  Bob V., Dave Garcia, I, and others have been able to make them perform flawlessly.  
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Mike Conder
 

Nice to know, but what do you mean by "updated drivers?". How can you tell which ones are the updated ones?

I know very little about the various versions of the Kemtron kits, though I have one with a solid brass boiler.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:35 PM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL