Topics

Abteilung weathering.


Mark Kasprowicz
 

I saw an article in a UK military modelling magazine showing how to represent aging wood using Abteilung oil paints - very convincing. Then I saw the BrassTrains video with JC and Jerry Spolema using the same brand of paint for weathering. Finally I spoke to a few modellers who used oil. they too praised the paints.

Anyone here tried it and if so what were your experiences? And which thinners did you use - drying time is the issue and though Scalecoar 1 thinners was recommended it's not available here in the UK.

BTW I find some of those military modelling mags are quite inspirational.

Mark K
Oxon, UK


Dale Buxton
 

Mark,

I've bought the paints but I haven't used them on and actual model yet. But, I have investigated some other video's on Train Masters TV where other brands of tube oil paints are used. The central products in the painting process seem to be the clear lacquer and its thinner. You put down a thin coat of clear lacquer, let it dry 24 hours and apply the oil washes. Let the oil washes dry 24 hours and then repeat both steps until you get the results you want. The idea is to build up weathering colors in ultra thin layers, while protecting the previous layer with barrier layer of clear lacquer. The thinner used for the oil paints is not strong enough to attach the clear lacquer. 

There must be a brand of clear lacquer and its thinner available in England that you could use. For years in the US automobile lacquers were used for painting brass models. Those paints have been mostly pushed off the market for environmental and health reasons. Mark if you personally could find some, in the US, I'm pretty sure  international law restricts them from being shipped to England on anything but a ship. If they are not outright illegal in England to begin with. Shipping chemicals in the air has become so difficult since the creation of IATA. But, if you really have your heart set on using Jerry Spolema's methods, the way he does it. The next time you are in Colorado I can show you where to get some automobile lacquer and thinner. Both shops are not too far from DIA. 20 miles or less. 

On the other hand. Abteilung, MIG, Andrea and Vallejo paints are all coming out of Spain. You're far closer to there than most of us. There must be some EU hobby dealer that can help you with some of this.

As far as the oil paint thinners go. Abteilung makes an odorless thinner for its oils. But so does Humbrol and Winsor Newton. Both of these brands are made in England. They are marketed as Oderless Tupinoid.

I agree with you strongly Mark. The military modeling people have a lot of quite inspirational ideas.

Dale Buxton

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:56 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
I saw an article in a UK military modelling magazine showing how to represent aging wood using Abteilung oil paints - very convincing. Then I saw the BrassTrains video with JC and Jerry Spolema using the same brand of paint for weathering. Finally I spoke to a few modellers who used oil. they too praised the paints.

Anyone here tried it and if so what were your experiences? And which thinners did you use - drying time is the issue and though Scalecoar 1 thinners was recommended it's not available here in the UK.

BTW I find some of those military modelling mags are quite inspirational.

Mark K
Oxon, UK


Mark Kasprowicz
 

Dale,

Thanks for the reply. The problem I have is figuring what 'Scalecoat 1' is - that's the stuff Jerry was using. I've started using the wash/ clear laquer method but using acrylics like the cheap ones from Walmart though a few dealers in this country chrage about $9.00 for a 99 cent pot! I might bring some back with me to sell on Ebay. I'm in the process of converting a couple of Downtown Deco hydrocal two engine shed into the Rico engine house ie shortening the distance between the piers from three to two windows and so on and the Acrylic/ laquer technique is just perfact but I've not tried oils.

I don't have a problem with laquer thinner which is called celulose thinners here. They send it by courier and I have a gallon of it in the garage. I also use it for paint stripping and it's available in my local True Value in Hermosa as well. So no problem there. My thoughts about thinners has gone onto Ronsonol or lighter fluid and I might give that a try.

Yes you're right a lot of those paint products come from Spain. I placed an order with Abteilung on Thursday including their fast drying thinners. It will be here on Monday. As Jerry said in the video it comes in quite a small bottle so the plan is to find something similar that can be bought more economically.

Military modeling mags are the only mags I get these days except for the Gazette and Narrow Gauge World. The processes and finishes those guys come up with are extraordinary. For anyone reading this that hasn't had a look at the internet or magazines, take a gander and don't worry about what they're making but how they're making it. You might be pleasantly surprised!

Mark K
Oxon, England


Mick Moignard
 

I’ve found lacquer type paints are available in the UK made by Zero, here’s a URL to some of their range.    https://www.zero-paints.com/RAL_Paints_European_Standard_Colour_Range_60ml--product--34.html. They don’t sell retail, but https://www.hiroboy.com/ carry the range and deliver in a couple of days.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

, so please excuse the typos.


Dale Buxton
 

Mark,

Yes, I was told by JC that Jerry is using Scalecoat 1. It is produced by Minute Man Hobbies now. 

Ahhhh so! Celulose Thinners. Now this is starting to make sense to me. MIG products sells two thinners in the celulose formulation. "Regular Celulose" and "Very Hot Thinner". In the USA Hot, Very Hot and Extremely Hot were/are terms to describe the evaporation or drying time of automotive lacquer thinners.

So, I have a friend in CA. that is a member of the Slim Gauge Guild and he knows JC (rather reluctantly I might add). He has asked JC for me about the details of Jerry's weathering process (types of lacquers and thinners etc.). But, JC would not commit to specifics. Like it's some sort of trade secret or something. The Brass Trains video was lacking in these specific details too. This is very strange for a how-to vid if you ask me. Anyway, I commented to the YouTube video on the process that it did not explain what clear lacquer and thinner Jerry was using. JC responded with any brand of Automotive clear lacquer. But they were using Dupont's brand. I told him I knew what is was and that I also knew that it was not made in the US anymore. Then he responded with back with Scalecoat 1 Clear. To be honest I'm have no Idea if that is true or not. 

I have about a quarter pint of Automotive Lacquer Clear left from my custom painting days many years ago. I'll need to find a new source for it for this weathering process if I end up liking it. I hava a gallon or two of the thinners left. I've always liked how this clear goes on with an airbrush. It sets down very smooth when it dries. I recently got some of PBL's Star Brand clear lacquer. So I'm going to give that a whirl with this process first.

About your thinners for the Abteilung Oils. Like I said  before, the Abteilung thinner is a odorless turpinoid thinner.  Go to the art store and get some Winsore/Newton Sansodor thinner. It comes in up to 2.5 L tins. I can get  odorless turpinoid at my local art supply. But, Home Depot has the same product for a better price.


Dale 


On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 12:15 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
Dale,

Thanks for the reply. The problem I have is figuring what 'Scalecoat 1' is - that's the stuff Jerry was using. I've started using the wash/ clear laquer method but using acrylics like the cheap ones from Walmart though a few dealers in this country chrage about $9.00 for a 99 cent pot! I might bring some back with me to sell on Ebay. I'm in the process of converting a couple of Downtown Deco hydrocal two engine shed into the Rico engine house ie shortening the distance between the piers from three to two windows and so on and the Acrylic/ laquer technique is just perfact but I've not tried oils.

I don't have a problem with laquer thinner which is called celulose thinners here. They send it by courier and I have a gallon of it in the garage. I also use it for paint stripping and it's available in my local True Value in Hermosa as well. So no problem there. My thoughts about thinners has gone onto Ronsonol or lighter fluid and I might give that a try.

Yes you're right a lot of those paint products come from Spain. I placed an order with Abteilung on Thursday including their fast drying thinners. It will be here on Monday. As Jerry said in the video it comes in quite a small bottle so the plan is to find something similar that can be bought more economically.

Military modeling mags are the only mags I get these days except for the Gazette and Narrow Gauge World. The processes and finishes those guys come up with are extraordinary. For anyone reading this that hasn't had a look at the internet or magazines, take a gander and don't worry about what they're making but how they're making it. You might be pleasantly surprised!

Mark K
Oxon, England


jczul36
 

Mark/Dale, Com’n you two!  You know me and even have my email.  I highly respect both of you and you could have contacted me direct.

Dale, I’m not sure what person from the Guild provided you info, but I can assure you no one asked.  When I’m asked, I normally divulge the information.

This “trade secrets” issue begins when I mentioned words like “barrier’s” and “washes”.  Most who never paint, seem to glare as if I were speaking to them in another language. I can assure you, no “trade secrets” here.  I’ve addressed this multiple times, but when I see them glaring, I advise them to read military modelers magazines on weathering so they can understand the lingo and concept.  We hoped the video from brass trains would help, but I guess it wasn’t enough.

As in military weathering, Jerry and I, both use barriers between multiple weathering stages.  Our barrier is the automotive lacquer (The reason for the lacquer base clear, is because it holds up to solvent washes and is not disturbed by the weaker thinner from the wash).  We use it to protect the earlier weathering and produce a gradual buildup.  However the barrier brand is irrelevant.  I use DuPont and Jerry uses PPG.  I will move to a new brand when my DuPont runs out.  

For the wash, We both use scalecoat 1 thinner for thinning oils or enamels.  We both used dio-sol thinner, but when it was no longer commercially available, we moved to scalecoat. Should scalecoat end, we’ll will find a different solvent to supplement it. The key to the solvent wash; it needs to evaporates quickly, not disturb the barrier, and thin our weathering colors.

The big difference between Jerry and I; I use testors enamel paints, and Jerry uses Abteilung oils for weathering colors. I’ve used the oils also, but prefer the enamels because they are available at any local hobby store.  We both used Dio-Sol, but when that ran out we substituted it with scalecoat.

Keep in mind, Any strong barrier and quick evaporating wash will provide the tools needed to weather.  This really is no trade secret, and very popular with the military modeling world.  Hope this helps.

Warm Regards,

jc





On May 18, 2019, at 3:29 AM, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

Mark,

Yes, I was told by JC that Jerry is using Scalecoat 1. It is produced by Minute Man Hobbies now. 

Ahhhh so! Celulose Thinners. Now this is starting to make sense to me. MIG products sells two thinners in the celulose formulation. "Regular Celulose" and "Very Hot Thinner". In the USA Hot, Very Hot and Extremely Hot were/are terms to describe the evaporation or drying time of automotive lacquer thinners.

So, I have a friend in CA. that is a member of the Slim Gauge Guild and he knows JC (rather reluctantly I might add). He has asked JC for me about the details of Jerry's weathering process (types of lacquers and thinners etc.). But, JC would not commit to specifics. Like it's some sort of trade secret or something. The Brass Trains video was lacking in these specific details too. This is very strange for a how-to vid if you ask me. Anyway, I commented to the YouTube video on the process that it did not explain what clear lacquer and thinner Jerry was using. JC responded with any brand of Automotive clear lacquer. But they were using Dupont's brand. I told him I knew what is was and that I also knew that it was not made in the US anymore. Then he responded with back with Scalecoat 1 Clear. To be honest I'm have no Idea if that is true or not. 

I have about a quarter pint of Automotive Lacquer Clear left from my custom painting days many years ago. I'll need to find a new source for it for this weathering process if I end up liking it. I hava a gallon or two of the thinners left. I've always liked how this clear goes on with an airbrush. It sets down very smooth when it dries. I recently got some of PBL's Star Brand clear lacquer. So I'm going to give that a whirl with this process first.

About your thinners for the Abteilung Oils. Like I said  before, the Abteilung thinner is a odorless turpinoid thinner.  Go to the art store and get some Winsore/Newton Sansodor thinner. It comes in up to 2.5 L tins. I can get  odorless turpinoid at my local art supply. But, Home Depot has the same product for a better price.


Dale 

On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 12:15 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
Dale,

Thanks for the reply. The problem I have is figuring what 'Scalecoat 1' is - that's the stuff Jerry was using. I've started using the wash/ clear laquer method but using acrylics like the cheap ones from Walmart though a few dealers in this country chrage about $9.00 for a 99 cent pot! I might bring some back with me to sell on Ebay. I'm in the process of converting a couple of Downtown Deco hydrocal two engine shed into the Rico engine house ie shortening the distance between the piers from three to two windows and so on and the Acrylic/ laquer technique is just perfact but I've not tried oils.

I don't have a problem with laquer thinner which is called celulose thinners here. They send it by courier and I have a gallon of it in the garage. I also use it for paint stripping and it's available in my local True Value in Hermosa as well. So no problem there. My thoughts about thinners has gone onto Ronsonol or lighter fluid and I might give that a try.

Yes you're right a lot of those paint products come from Spain. I placed an order with Abteilung on Thursday including their fast drying thinners. It will be here on Monday. As Jerry said in the video it comes in quite a small bottle so the plan is to find something similar that can be bought more economically.

Military modeling mags are the only mags I get these days except for the Gazette and Narrow Gauge World. The processes and finishes those guys come up with are extraordinary. For anyone reading this that hasn't had a look at the internet or magazines, take a gander and don't worry about what they're making but how they're making it. You might be pleasantly surprised!

Mark K
Oxon, England


Mark Kasprowicz
 

JC,

I do have your Email address but you're a television star now and I wondered..... Heck, I'm sorry mate, I never thought to get in touch direct, I will next time. I have a couple of questions for you but the main drive of my quest was to find an equivlalent of Scalecoat 1 in this country which I think I might have. It's called Sansodor and made by Windsor and Newton. It's called a low odour solvent.

The Automotive clear lacquer that you use, is it cellulose based or an Acrylic, because the only clear automotive lacquers that I've found are Acrylic? Will that work?  If you're using Testors enamels why do you need a barrier coat? My understanding about oils is that if you brush on thinners the paint softens to the point where it can be removed which doesn't happen with enamels because once dry they're 'locked'. So the clear coat locks that wash down. Or am I missing something here? (Probably am!).

I think the video certainly sparked an interest but didn't provide all the answers. As for the military mags, I agree but I have yet to find one which banners "NEWBIE SPECIAL" on the cover. It was from one of these that I discovered Abteilung paint as a means of good wood representation.

Glad to see you're still on the list - we've lost a few good'uns since moving from Yahoo. Lets hope they find us again. And of course there are those who have handed in their dinner plates.

Mark K
Oxon England.


jczul36
 

Mark, Yes, I’m still here.  I’m not as active in contributing as before, but there are subjects of interest which catch my eye.

To build up gradual weathering, a barrier is needed to seal and protect one weathering stage, from the next.  A Barrier’s is applied after each stage of wash.  

I use model master paints because they thin with scalecoat, but are not strong enough to attack my barrier.  As any paint, they dilute to a fine wash and can be steered to create lines, spots, stains, or build up of grime.  Oils work exactly the same.  Obviously with oils, the higher quality the paint, the better the wash.  

Regarding the lacquer.  I believe mine is an acrylic lacquer.  At least that’s what the thinner states.  However I’m not sure if my clear is acrylic or not.  No label on the can.  

The best way to find out if it will work is to paint a sheet of brass with a primary paint ( the paint you will use to paint your model).  After it’s dry, spray it with the clear you wish to use as a barrier.  If the clear does not craze the primary paint (the engine or rolling stock color), proceed to the next step.  If it does, you may have to find a stronger primary paint.... more on this later

If your barrier did not craze primary paint; proceed to spraying a dirty wash (diluted earth colors on the test piece).  Then apply a wet brush of scale coat and begin to clean off the dirty wash.  As you attempt to wash off the spray paint.  If the clear begins to lift or craze as you brush the dirty wash, then your clear is not strong enough and must find a substitute.  

Even though I use the thinner for washes, Scalecoat is not a good primary paint.  In my experience the clear does not adhere to it’s surface, and it just peels away like a decal.  PBL is one of my primary colors and so is true color.  My clear does not attack/craze the paint.

Hope this helps.
jc







On May 19, 2019, at 7:37 AM, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:

JC,

I do have your Email address but you're a television star now and I wondered..... Heck, I'm sorry mate, I never thought to get in touch direct, I will next time. I have a couple of questions for you but the main drive of my quest was to find an equivlalent of Scalecoat 1 in this country which I think I might have. It's called Sansodor and made by Windsor and Newton. It's called a low odour solvent.

The Automotive clear lacquer that you use, is it cellulose based or an Acrylic, because the only clear automotive lacquers that I've found are Acrylic? Will that work?  If you're using Testors enamels why do you need a barrier coat? My understanding about oils is that if you brush on thinners the paint softens to the point where it can be removed which doesn't happen with enamels because once dry they're 'locked'. So the clear coat locks that wash down. Or am I missing something here? (Probably am!).

I think the video certainly sparked an interest but didn't provide all the answers. As for the military mags, I agree but I have yet to find one which banners "NEWBIE SPECIAL" on the cover. It was from one of these that I discovered Abteilung paint as a means of good wood representation.

Glad to see you're still on the list - we've lost a few good'uns since moving from Yahoo. Lets hope they find us again. And of course there are those who have handed in their dinner plates.

Mark K
Oxon England.


Jim Spencer
 

I’m a member of the Slim Gauge Guild and am curious as to who among the members “reluctantly” knows Juan Carlos. It is hard for me to imagine anyone who would not like and appreciate him. He is a great guy and will probably carry on the tradition of Jerry Spoelma’s techniques when he eventually retires.  
BTW, Jerry is a graduate of Art Center College of Design and would have learned many of his techniques from his education there. He also has a large archive of photos from which he researches the exact appearance of most locos and cars he paints and weathers.
Juan of course has learned the craft from Jerry and to his own credit is a superb modeler in brass, doing incredible custom work. I am blessed to call him a friend.
jim


Mark Kasprowicz
 

Hugely thanks JC. I'm quite OK with washes but on Hyrocal or plaster using water based acrylics but never tried the concept of 'barrier' coats which make perfect sense. That same concept will make things like pointing brickwork (do you call it that in the US, the cement between the bricks) so much easier using a oil wash and capiliary action over a barrier coat.

I'll experiment as you suggest and hopefully will come up with the right materials (and technique) in the not too distant future.

Thanks again,

Mark K
Oxon England.


Mark Kasprowicz
 

JC,

I got my Ableilung box of goodies including their fast drying thinner. A 'nose' test (aka SNORT) suggests it is no more than Acetone or nail varnish remover as my wife called it. Please pass onto the Jerry and in the meanwhile I'll give it a snort... er shot..

Mark K


jczul36
 

That Great!  However, acetone will eat away at my lacquer base barrie, so be careful.  This is why scalecoat 1 thinner is handy.  It thins the oils, but will not disturb the barrier.  



On May 21, 2019, at 10:04 AM, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:

JC,

I got my Ableilung box of goodies including their fast drying thinner. A 'nose' test (aka SNORT) suggests it is no more than Acetone or nail varnish remover as my wife called it. Please pass onto the Jerry and in the meanwhile I'll give it a snort... er shot..

Mark K


Mark Kasprowicz
 

Yes, that occured to me at three o'clock in the morning. All it says on the bottle is that it contains 'Hydrocarbons' - that's about the whole gammit of organic chemistry isn't it? I will tread most carefully.


Dennis Carrell
 

I realize I'm late to this discussion!  I just recently watched the amazing video that sparked such a firestorm of interest. One of the things that was frustrating about the video was a lack of close ups on the finished models!  So that leads me to my first question. 

1)  Is there a gallery of photos somewhere that show these gorgeous models somewhere?

2)  Has anyone attempted this process with acrylics?  I'm guessing that watering down the pigments in acrylics just won't leave the same effect on the model?  Or is there another more sinister reason not to use acrylics on brass? 

I have yet to paint a brass model which is the whole reason I stumbled on to the video, I have a project 2-8-0 consolidated that I will be starting soon and I'm researching both painting and working on brass models.  There is not a lot out there in the how-to videos on painting brass.

~Dennis


Jim Marlett
 

As I understand it, Abteilung is a brand of high quality oil paints designed for modeling. What this means is that any tutorial on weathering with oil paints will show you how to use them. I would do a search for weathering with oil paints. Same with acrylics.

Do a web search for each technique. Then if you want, click the images button related to both searches and you will get plenty of up close images. There are a ton of them out there.

It seems to me that the extra pay video sites like Train Master TV and MR Video Plus have had tutorials on weathering with both acrylics and oils. I don’t think I would subscribe just for those topics, but if you already subscribe to these services, then you might see if my old man memory is correct.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Carrell via groups.io <dennis.carrell@...> wrote:

I realize I'm late to this discussion!  I just recently watched the amazing video that sparked such a firestorm of interest. One of the things that was frustrating about the video was a lack of close ups on the finished models!  So that leads me to my first question. 

1)  Is there a gallery of photos somewhere that show these gorgeous models somewhere?

2)  Has anyone attempted this process with acrylics?  I'm guessing that watering down the pigments in acrylics just won't leave the same effect on the model?  Or is there another more sinister reason not to use acrylics on brass? 

I have yet to paint a brass model which is the whole reason I stumbled on to the video, I have a project 2-8-0 consolidated that I will be starting soon and I'm researching both painting and working on brass models.  There is not a lot out there in the how-to videos on painting brass.

~Dennis


Lee Gustafson
 

FWIW, not to high jack the thread or this narrow gauge group, I suggest that you Google military modelers sites as the use of oil paints for weathering is quite common. The use of dis-similar types of paints, i.e. acrylics as a base paint and oils as the weathering paints, is the basis for the technique. Oil based paints are relatively slow drying and once acrylics have cured the oil based paints do not attack the acrylics. As always a learning curve is present and practice on something other than an expensive brass locomotive or a prized scratch built model is advised. Best wishes.

Lee Gustafson 


On Aug 3, 2020, at 7:40 AM, Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

As I understand it, Abteilung is a brand of high quality oil paints designed for modeling. What this means is that any tutorial on weathering with oil paints will show you how to use them. I would do a search for weathering with oil paints. Same with acrylics.

Do a web search for each technique. Then if you want, click the images button related to both searches and you will get plenty of up close images. There are a ton of them out there.

It seems to me that the extra pay video sites like Train Master TV and MR Video Plus have had tutorials on weathering with both acrylics and oils. I don’t think I would subscribe just for those topics, but if you already subscribe to these services, then you might see if my old man memory is correct.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Carrell via groups.io <dennis.carrell@...> wrote:

I realize I'm late to this discussion!  I just recently watched the amazing video that sparked such a firestorm of interest. One of the things that was frustrating about the video was a lack of close ups on the finished models!  So that leads me to my first question. 

1)  Is there a gallery of photos somewhere that show these gorgeous models somewhere?

2)  Has anyone attempted this process with acrylics?  I'm guessing that watering down the pigments in acrylics just won't leave the same effect on the model?  Or is there another more sinister reason not to use acrylics on brass? 

I have yet to paint a brass model which is the whole reason I stumbled on to the video, I have a project 2-8-0 consolidated that I will be starting soon and I'm researching both painting and working on brass models.  There is not a lot out there in the how-to videos on painting brass.

~Dennis


Mark Rosche
 

I have been experimenting with the Abteilung oils and I find them very forgiving (once the acrylic base has been cured completely). As they are slow drying, one can correct „mistakes“ for quite a while with some „odorless thinner“...once you get everything exactly as you want it, clear matte  lacquer coat it and you are done 😁👍🏻

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

On 3. Aug 2020, at 16:42, Lee Gustafson via groups.io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

FWIW, not to high jack the thread or this narrow gauge group, I suggest that you Google military modelers sites as the use of oil paints for weathering is quite common. The use of dis-similar types of paints, i.e. acrylics as a base paint and oils as the weathering paints, is the basis for the technique. Oil based paints are relatively slow drying and once acrylics have cured the oil based paints do not attack the acrylics. As always a learning curve is present and practice on something other than an expensive brass locomotive or a prized scratch built model is advised. Best wishes.

Lee Gustafson 


On Aug 3, 2020, at 7:40 AM, Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

As I understand it, Abteilung is a brand of high quality oil paints designed for modeling. What this means is that any tutorial on weathering with oil paints will show you how to use them. I would do a search for weathering with oil paints. Same with acrylics.

Do a web search for each technique. Then if you want, click the images button related to both searches and you will get plenty of up close images. There are a ton of them out there.

It seems to me that the extra pay video sites like Train Master TV and MR Video Plus have had tutorials on weathering with both acrylics and oils. I don’t think I would subscribe just for those topics, but if you already subscribe to these services, then you might see if my old man memory is correct.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Carrell via groups.io <dennis.carrell@...> wrote:

I realize I'm late to this discussion!  I just recently watched the amazing video that sparked such a firestorm of interest. One of the things that was frustrating about the video was a lack of close ups on the finished models!  So that leads me to my first question. 

1)  Is there a gallery of photos somewhere that show these gorgeous models somewhere?

2)  Has anyone attempted this process with acrylics?  I'm guessing that watering down the pigments in acrylics just won't leave the same effect on the model?  Or is there another more sinister reason not to use acrylics on brass? 

I have yet to paint a brass model which is the whole reason I stumbled on to the video, I have a project 2-8-0 consolidated that I will be starting soon and I'm researching both painting and working on brass models.  There is not a lot out there in the how-to videos on painting brass.

~Dennis


Mark Rosche
 

forgot to add the pics (albeit in Sn3)...



Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

On 3. Aug 2020, at 16:42, Lee Gustafson via groups.io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

FWIW, not to high jack the thread or this narrow gauge group, I suggest that you Google military modelers sites as the use of oil paints for weathering is quite common. The use of dis-similar types of paints, i.e. acrylics as a base paint and oils as the weathering paints, is the basis for the technique. Oil based paints are relatively slow drying and once acrylics have cured the oil based paints do not attack the acrylics. As always a learning curve is present and practice on something other than an expensive brass locomotive or a prized scratch built model is advised. Best wishes.

Lee Gustafson 


On Aug 3, 2020, at 7:40 AM, Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

As I understand it, Abteilung is a brand of high quality oil paints designed for modeling. What this means is that any tutorial on weathering with oil paints will show you how to use them. I would do a search for weathering with oil paints. Same with acrylics.

Do a web search for each technique. Then if you want, click the images button related to both searches and you will get plenty of up close images. There are a ton of them out there.

It seems to me that the extra pay video sites like Train Master TV and MR Video Plus have had tutorials on weathering with both acrylics and oils. I don’t think I would subscribe just for those topics, but if you already subscribe to these services, then you might see if my old man memory is correct.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Carrell via groups.io <dennis.carrell@...> wrote:

I realize I'm late to this discussion!  I just recently watched the amazing video that sparked such a firestorm of interest. One of the things that was frustrating about the video was a lack of close ups on the finished models!  So that leads me to my first question. 

1)  Is there a gallery of photos somewhere that show these gorgeous models somewhere?

2)  Has anyone attempted this process with acrylics?  I'm guessing that watering down the pigments in acrylics just won't leave the same effect on the model?  Or is there another more sinister reason not to use acrylics on brass? 

I have yet to paint a brass model which is the whole reason I stumbled on to the video, I have a project 2-8-0 consolidated that I will be starting soon and I'm researching both painting and working on brass models.  There is not a lot out there in the how-to videos on painting brass.

~Dennis


Climax@...
 

I know very well from experiences that some applications turn out really great on models, but then again I have had some disasters.  I think my biggest was when I was almost finished and applied a clear coat over it and the paint just crinkled up into a huge mess that I had to completely strip and start over.  I think all of use probably have had that happen at least once followed by things we probably should not have said.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "Mark Rosche via groups.io"
Sent: Aug 3, 2020 11:15 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Abteilung weathering.

I have been experimenting with the Abteilung oils and I find them very forgiving (once the acrylic base has been cured completely). As they are slow drying, one can correct „mistakes“ for quite a while with some „odorless thinner“...once you get everything exactly as you want it, clear matte  lacquer coat it and you are done 😁👍🏻

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

On 3. Aug 2020, at 16:42, Lee Gustafson via groups.io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

FWIW, not to high jack the thread or this narrow gauge group, I suggest that you Google military modelers sites as the use of oil paints for weathering is quite common. The use of dis-similar types of paints, i.e. acrylics as a base paint and oils as the weathering paints, is the basis for the technique. Oil based paints are relatively slow drying and once acrylics have cured the oil based paints do not attack the acrylics. As always a learning curve is present and practice on something other than an expensive brass locomotive or a prized scratch built model is advised. Best wishes.

Lee Gustafson 


On Aug 3, 2020, at 7:40 AM, Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

As I understand it, Abteilung is a brand of high quality oil paints designed for modeling. What this means is that any tutorial on weathering with oil paints will show you how to use them. I would do a search for weathering with oil paints. Same with acrylics.

Do a web search for each technique. Then if you want, click the images button related to both searches and you will get plenty of up close images. There are a ton of them out there.

It seems to me that the extra pay video sites like Train Master TV and MR Video Plus have had tutorials on weathering with both acrylics and oils. I don’t think I would subscribe just for those topics, but if you already subscribe to these services, then you might see if my old man memory is correct.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Carrell via groups.io <dennis.carrell@...> wrote:

I realize I'm late to this discussion!  I just recently watched the amazing video that sparked such a firestorm of interest. One of the things that was frustrating about the video was a lack of close ups on the finished models!  So that leads me to my first question. 

1)  Is there a gallery of photos somewhere that show these gorgeous models somewhere?

2)  Has anyone attempted this process with acrylics?  I'm guessing that watering down the pigments in acrylics just won't leave the same effect on the model?  Or is there another more sinister reason not to use acrylics on brass? 

I have yet to paint a brass model which is the whole reason I stumbled on to the video, I have a project 2-8-0 consolidated that I will be starting soon and I'm researching both painting and working on brass models.  There is not a lot out there in the how-to videos on painting brass.

~Dennis


Mark Rosche
 

@Dave:  had that happen (crinkling) when the oils were not completely cured...

I should have mentioned „Do NOT use an acrylic based matte clear coat over the oils...that is a disaster waiting to happen as the varnish beads on the oil paint“...Testors Dullcoat is your friend over oils (If you can still get it)...also, Abteilung has a matte effect thinner available that really flattens down the oils...

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

On 3. Aug 2020, at 17:51, "Climax@..." <Climax@... wrote:


I know very well from experiences that some applications turn out really great on models, but then again I have had some disasters.  I think my biggest was when I was almost finished and applied a clear coat over it and the paint just crinkled up into a huge mess that I had to completely strip and start over.  I think all of use probably have had that happen at least once followed by things we probably should not have said.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "Mark Rosche via groups.io"
Sent: Aug 3, 2020 11:15 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Abteilung weathering.

I have been experimenting with the Abteilung oils and I find them very forgiving (once the acrylic base has been cured completely). As they are slow drying, one can correct „mistakes“ for quite a while with some „odorless thinner“...once you get everything exactly as you want it, clear matte  lacquer coat it and you are done 😁👍🏻

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

On 3. Aug 2020, at 16:42, Lee Gustafson via groups.io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

FWIW, not to high jack the thread or this narrow gauge group, I suggest that you Google military modelers sites as the use of oil paints for weathering is quite common. The use of dis-similar types of paints, i.e. acrylics as a base paint and oils as the weathering paints, is the basis for the technique. Oil based paints are relatively slow drying and once acrylics have cured the oil based paints do not attack the acrylics. As always a learning curve is present and practice on something other than an expensive brass locomotive or a prized scratch built model is advised. Best wishes.

Lee Gustafson 


On Aug 3, 2020, at 7:40 AM, Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

As I understand it, Abteilung is a brand of high quality oil paints designed for modeling. What this means is that any tutorial on weathering with oil paints will show you how to use them. I would do a search for weathering with oil paints. Same with acrylics.

Do a web search for each technique. Then if you want, click the images button related to both searches and you will get plenty of up close images. There are a ton of them out there.

It seems to me that the extra pay video sites like Train Master TV and MR Video Plus have had tutorials on weathering with both acrylics and oils. I don’t think I would subscribe just for those topics, but if you already subscribe to these services, then you might see if my old man memory is correct.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Carrell via groups.io <dennis.carrell@...> wrote:

I realize I'm late to this discussion!  I just recently watched the amazing video that sparked such a firestorm of interest. One of the things that was frustrating about the video was a lack of close ups on the finished models!  So that leads me to my first question. 

1)  Is there a gallery of photos somewhere that show these gorgeous models somewhere?

2)  Has anyone attempted this process with acrylics?  I'm guessing that watering down the pigments in acrylics just won't leave the same effect on the model?  Or is there another more sinister reason not to use acrylics on brass? 

I have yet to paint a brass model which is the whole reason I stumbled on to the video, I have a project 2-8-0 consolidated that I will be starting soon and I'm researching both painting and working on brass models.  There is not a lot out there in the how-to videos on painting brass.

~Dennis