Narrow gauge couplers


ftgcss
 

What type of couplers did the D&RGW and the RGS use on their cars?  The reason I'm asking is that my intent was to use Sergent Engineering "Sharon" type coupler for the rolling stock on my layout, however Frank at Sergents pulled the plug and so that just left Kadee as the only alternative.  I really, really don't want to use Kadee for a number of reasons I won't go into.  Now Eric Xing is offering what appears to be copies of the Sergent couplers but cast in brass and pre-assembled, however he does not make a version of the "Sharon" coupler.  I ordered a couple of pairs of the "E" type to see how they looked and they are visibly bigger than the Sharons from Sergents.  However when looking at pictures of D&RGW and RGS box cars the Sharon types from Sergents look to small and the "E" types from Eric look more correct.  Is it just an illusion or wishful thinking on my part that the "E" looks like the right coupler?  So what type of coupler did they use?

Thanks,
Scott  


Earl Knoob
 

The D&RGW largely used Full Sized Sharon MCB couplers on its narrow gauge equipment.  There were other manufacturers of MCB full sized couplers including Climax, Tower, La Trobe, and Janney.  The AAR Type E coupler uses the same MCB knuckle profile, so it couples with Sharon, etc. couplers, but it is a more massive coupler and became the standard on Standard Gauge freight cars.  Some of the of the later rebuildings of SG cars into NG cars kept their AAR couplers.  The 9600 series pipe gons come to mind.  Basically, the wooden cars used the smaller MCB couplers while the standard gauge conversions used AAR Type E couplers.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of ftgcss <ftgc@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 12:49 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Narrow gauge couplers
 
What type of couplers did the D&RGW and the RGS use on their cars?  The reason I'm asking is that my intent was to use Sergent Engineering "Sharon" type coupler for the rolling stock on my layout, however Frank at Sergents pulled the plug and so that just left Kadee as the only alternative.  I really, really don't want to use Kadee for a number of reasons I won't go into.  Now Eric Xing is offering what appears to be copies of the Sergent couplers but cast in brass and pre-assembled, however he does not make a version of the "Sharon" coupler.  I ordered a couple of pairs of the "E" type to see how they looked and they are visibly bigger than the Sharons from Sergents.  However when looking at pictures of D&RGW and RGS box cars the Sharon types from Sergents look to small and the "E" types from Eric look more correct.  Is it just an illusion or wishful thinking on my part that the "E" looks like the right coupler?  So what type of coupler did they use?

Thanks,
Scott  


alsands@...
 

Why don't HOn3 modelers use the Kadee 148 coupler?, I was thinking about using them but have decided to get out of narrow gauge, it's just too hard to get anything when you live in Australia so I will probably sell it all.

Alan


Mike Conder
 

 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 

I plan to get LOTS!

Mike Conder

On Thu, Sep 29, 2022, 12:49 PM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
What type of couplers did the D&RGW and the RGS use on their cars?  The reason I'm asking is that my intent was to use Sergent Engineering "Sharon" type coupler for the rolling stock on my layout, however Frank at Sergents pulled the plug and so that just left Kadee as the only alternative.  I really, really don't want to use Kadee for a number of reasons I won't go into.  Now Eric Xing is offering what appears to be copies of the Sergent couplers but cast in brass and pre-assembled, however he does not make a version of the "Sharon" coupler.  I ordered a couple of pairs of the "E" type to see how they looked and they are visibly bigger than the Sharons from Sergents.  However when looking at pictures of D&RGW and RGS box cars the Sharon types from Sergents look to small and the "E" types from Eric look more correct.  Is it just an illusion or wishful thinking on my part that the "E" looks like the right coupler?  So what type of coupler did they use?

Thanks,
Scott  


ftgcss
 

On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Mike Conder wrote:
 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 
 
I plan to get LOTS!
 
Mike Conder
Actually Mike I just got a message from Eric saying the same thing, I can't wait.

Scott


Mike Conder
 

Good deal!  Did he say he’s still working on them or has them ready for sale?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:04 AM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Mike Conder wrote:
 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 
 
I plan to get LOTS!
 
Mike Conder
Actually Mike I just got a message from Eric saying the same thing, I can't wait.

Scott

--
Mike Conder


Bernie H
 

I just checked his inventory on the eBay page and there are 0 Sharons currently. I think they are coming soon. There may be delays as his city has gone back into pandemic controls. I’ve been checking his Facebook page 2-3 times a week. 
       Bernie


On Sep 30, 2022, at 11:09, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:


Good deal!  Did he say he’s still working on them or has them ready for sale?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:04 AM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Mike Conder wrote:
 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 
 
I plan to get LOTS!
 
Mike Conder
Actually Mike I just got a message from Eric saying the same thing, I can't wait.

Scott

--
Mike Conder


John Stutz
 

Building on Earl's reply:

By 1900 the D&RG and C&S had been primarily standard gauge roads for a decade.  So when they upgraded the remaining narrow gauge lines to MCB couplers they used the same full size ones they were using on SG cars.  The Sharon coupler was just one of dozens of MCB compatible couplers then marketed, that differed mainly in their internal locking mechanism.  Climax was another make that often appears on D&RGW NG car diagrams, but these two, and most others, are  indistinguishable in HO scale.

Other 3' gauge railroads, particularly those not closely associated with SG roads, tended to use the recommended 3/4 size MCB, while there was also a 1/2 size MCB recommended for 2' gauge roads.  None of these three are mutually compatible.  White Pass still uses 3/4 MCB profile couplers, while their ex. Newfoundland steel side dumps retained their full size couplers, except for a couple cars that have one of each. 

The early MCB standard specified only the mating profile of couplers, and by circa 1900 there were about 90 versions on the market, none internally compatible.  The broken coupler parts replacement problem was rapidly growing intolerable.  Circa 1905-10 the MCB section of the newly formed  ARR associated with four major coupler manufacturers to pool their patents, run exhaustive tests on their best models, share test results and improvements, and devise an ARR standard coupler that all participants would manufacture.  This resulted in the AAR type D coupler, recommended practice from the early teens.   By the early 1920's, experience with the D resulted in the AAR type E, the standard late steam era SG coupler.  All of the MCB, AAR-D, AAR-E, and follow on variants are mutually compatible, although modern train loads can be expected to yank the old MCBs right out of the car.  As happened to a couple of the D&RGW narrow frame tank cars that went to the White Pass.

John Stutz

On September 29, 2022 9:28 PM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:


The D&RGW largely used Full Sized Sharon MCB couplers on its narrow gauge equipment.  There were other manufacturers of MCB full sized couplers including Climax, Tower, La Trobe, and Janney.  The AAR Type E coupler uses the same MCB knuckle profile, so it couples with Sharon, etc. couplers, but it is a more massive coupler and became the standard on Standard Gauge freight cars.  Some of the of the later rebuildings of SG cars into NG cars kept their AAR couplers.  The 9600 series pipe gons come to mind.  Basically, the wooden cars used the smaller MCB couplers while the standard gauge conversions used AAR Type E couplers.




From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of ftgcss <ftgc@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 12:49 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Narrow gauge couplers

What type of couplers did the D&RGW and the RGS use on their cars?  The reason I'm asking is that my intent was to use Sergent Engineering "Sharon" type coupler for the rolling stock on my layout, however Frank at Sergents pulled the plug and so that just left Kadee as the only alternative.  I really, really don't want to use Kadee for a number of reasons I won't go into.  Now Eric Xing is offering what appears to be copies of the Sergent couplers but cast in brass and pre-assembled, however he does not make a version of the "Sharon" coupler.  I ordered a couple of pairs of the "E" type to see how they looked and they are visibly bigger than the Sharons from Sergents.  However when looking at pictures of D&RGW and RGS box cars the Sharon types from Sergents look to small and the "E" types from Eric look more correct.  Is it just an illusion or wishful thinking on my part that the "E" looks like the right coupler?  So what type of coupler did they use?

Thanks,
Scott  


Eric Schrowang
 

What is Eric's ebay store? 

Thank you

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 2:17 PM Bernie H via groups.io <bigbern89=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
I just checked his inventory on the eBay page and there are 0 Sharons currently. I think they are coming soon. There may be delays as his city has gone back into pandemic controls. I’ve been checking his Facebook page 2-3 times a week. 
       Bernie


On Sep 30, 2022, at 11:09, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:


Good deal!  Did he say he’s still working on them or has them ready for sale?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:04 AM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Mike Conder wrote:
 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 
 
I plan to get LOTS!
 
Mike Conder
Actually Mike I just got a message from Eric saying the same thing, I can't wait.

Scott

--
Mike Conder


Mark Lewis
 

Eric,

Inventive Models can be found on Ebay at:    https://www.ebay.com/itm/144707626419  
Scroll down the page to see the list of couplers Eric Xing has or will have in stock.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:33 PM Eric Schrowang <eschrowang@...> wrote:
What is Eric's ebay store? 

Thank you

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 2:17 PM Bernie H via groups.io <bigbern89=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
I just checked his inventory on the eBay page and there are 0 Sharons currently. I think they are coming soon. There may be delays as his city has gone back into pandemic controls. I’ve been checking his Facebook page 2-3 times a week. 
       Bernie


On Sep 30, 2022, at 11:09, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:


Good deal!  Did he say he’s still working on them or has them ready for sale?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:04 AM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Mike Conder wrote:
 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 
 
I plan to get LOTS!
 
Mike Conder
Actually Mike I just got a message from Eric saying the same thing, I can't wait.

Scott

--
Mike Conder


Dave
 

That $20,000 shipping fee is a little too stout for me…


On Sep 30, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:


Good deal!  Did he say he’s still working on them or has them ready for sale?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:04 AM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Mike Conder wrote:
 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 
 
I plan to get LOTS!
 
Mike Conder
Actually Mike I just got a message from Eric saying the same thing, I can't wait.

Scott

--
Mike Conder


Mike Conder
 

Dave that’s just a filler, not real. Eric had issues with the software giant, so ask for what he I want and he’ll send a personalized invoice. 

Different but workable. 

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:58 PM Dave <4437087@...> wrote:
That $20,000 shipping fee is a little too stout for me…


On Sep 30, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:


Good deal!  Did he say he’s still working on them or has them ready for sale?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:04 AM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Mike Conder wrote:
 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 
 
I plan to get LOTS!
 
Mike Conder
Actually Mike I just got a message from Eric saying the same thing, I can't wait.

Scott

--
Mike Conder

--
Mike Conder


Dave
 

Thanks Mike


On Sep 30, 2022, at 4:06 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:


Dave that’s just a filler, not real. Eric had issues with the software giant, so ask for what he I want and he’ll send a personalized invoice. 

Different but workable. 

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:58 PM Dave <4437087@...> wrote:
That $20,000 shipping fee is a little too stout for me…


On Sep 30, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:


Good deal!  Did he say he’s still working on them or has them ready for sale?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:04 AM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Mike Conder wrote:
 Not sure if this helps, but Eric Xing is working on the Sharon coupler and may even have them available already. 
 
I plan to get LOTS!
 
Mike Conder
Actually Mike I just got a message from Eric saying the same thing, I can't wait.

Scott

--
Mike Conder

--
Mike Conder


Ray
 

I looked at Eric's Ebay page and it looks like the couplers have a hinged glad hand.  But can they uncouple (like kadees)  on the layout?  Sargeant's couldn't which was a problem. 
--
Ray in Colorado


Mark Lewis
 

Ray,

Eric's couplers work like Sergents. They require a magnetic wand, just like Sergents, to uncouple.
They do couple to Kadee's and stay coupled, until they are uncoupled with the magnetic wand..or..the cars are lifted up and away from each other.
Follow "Inventive Models" on Facebook,  where Eric has discussed the magnetic wand situation.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 1:58 AM Ray <rayhon3@...> wrote:
I looked at Eric's Ebay page and it looks like the couplers have a hinged glad hand.  But can they uncouple (like kadees)  on the layout?  Sargeant's couldn't which was a problem. 
--
Ray in Colorado


Ray
 

Okay, glad you cleared this up.  But unlike Kadees Erics cannot be uncoupled at a distance.
--
Ray in Colorado


Mark Lewis
 

Ray,

Correct. No remote uncoupling for Sergents or Inventive Models couplers.

Mark Lewis

On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 11:23 PM Ray <rayhon3@...> wrote:
Okay, glad you cleared this up.  But unlike Kadees Erics cannot be uncoupled at a distance.
--
Ray in Colorado


Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Oct 1, 2022, at 12:57, Ray <rayhon3@...> wrote:

Okay, glad you cleared this up. But unlike Kadees Erics cannot be uncoupled at a distance.
Yabbut, pin-pullers need to be right next to the car....
--
Willie was a chemist,
Now Willie is no more.
What Willie thought was H2O
Was H2SO4


Mike Conder
 

Yep. But easier than manually uncoupling  Kadees and more flexible than fixed magnetic couplers. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, Oct 2, 2022 at 1:52 PM Nolan Hinshaw <nualain48@...> wrote:
On Oct 1, 2022, at 12:57, Ray <rayhon3@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, glad you cleared this up.  But unlike Kadees Erics cannot be uncoupled at a distance.

Yabbut, pin-pullers need to be right next to the car....
--
Willie was a chemist,
Now Willie is no more.
What Willie thought was H2O
Was H2SO4






--
Mike Conder


Bill Lugg
 

Frankly, I've given up on locating magnets under the track.  Trying to
predict where I'm going to want to uncouple cars is near impossible when
I haven't even operated on a section of layout yet. I use Kadees and
have taken to locating dental picks around the layout to do the
uncoupling in lieu of magnets and find they work just fine.  A recent
MRH showed how to make them from a piece of dowel and a fine dental pick
refill.

The same could be done with the magnetic wand for the Seargents and
Eric's couplers.  Seems like you could make the wands from a similar
piece of dowel and a small rare earth magnet.  Put a wire loop on the
other end and a little hook in the fascia and you could have them
hanging at every siding.

Just a thought.
Bill Lugg

On 10/2/22 16:47, Mike Conder wrote:
Yep. But easier than manually uncoupling  Kadees and more flexible
than fixed magnetic couplers.

Mike Conder

On Sun, Oct 2, 2022 at 1:52 PM Nolan Hinshaw <nualain48@...> wrote:

On Oct 1, 2022, at 12:57, Ray <rayhon3@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, glad you cleared this up.  But unlike Kadees Erics cannot
be uncoupled at a distance.

Yabbut, pin-pullers need to be right next to the car....
--
Willie was a chemist,
Now Willie is no more.
What Willie thought was H2O
Was H2SO4






--
Mike Conder