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July RMC Editorial on NG diesels
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Art Rogers
Anyone read the Perspective page in the July RMC? Interesting piece about export locos in narrow gauges and making them in ready to run. Be still my beating heart. A GA8 for my Caribbean railroad? Gasp! I'm already working on masters for ex ICRA equipment, having to not engineer power would be shocking. Probably not but I would be in for a few. Kel |
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Mark Lewis
Art,
Yes..I did read the Perspective article in the July issue of RMC. My mind went directly to thinking of the various White Pass & Yukon diesel locomotives that could be produced in RTR HOn3. Now...will someone at Rapido or Scale Trains, see the business viability of actually producing such locomotives? Mark Lewis Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. |
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John Stutz
Art
Wuiske Models offers 5 different HOm (12mm gauge) RTR Queensland Railways diesels, all with a strong EMD look. I have not determined how difficult it is to re-gauge them to 10.5mm.
i have seen a 3-D printed body shells for a number of EMD export locomotives offered by South American sources, but have not been able to find the web site. There are also a few on Shapeways, possibly a GT-22 C.
John Stutz
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I also read that article and I agree that not only narrow gauge diesels are needed, but small locos (less than 80 tons) would also be welcome in standard gauge.
The EMD G8, 12, 16 series works for both. Approx zero chance Rapido will not be doing a NG diesel. Looking at their poorly rendered PA-1, that's a good thing. On the other hand, this 3D-printed narrow gauge box cab diesel was made using a $300 home printer on a Bachmann 45-ton side rod chassis. It was one of the creator's first projects yet it's VERY well done. The sheet metal sides are completely smooth, no "stripes" from the printing process. It's nicer than many injection molded styrene models. "Part 2: Building a 3D Printed AGEIR Style 45 Ton Boxcab Diesel With Side Rods In Hon3" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCo-bpQjB8M Rob Simpson ----------------------------------------------------- Art, Yes..I did read the Perspective article in the July issue of RMC. My mind went directly to thinking of the various White Pass & Yukon diesel locomotives that could be produced in RTR HOn3. Now...will someone at Rapido or Scale Trains, see the business viability of actually producing such locomotives? Mark Lewis Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. |
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For those curious, I'm working on a few of WP&Y diesels for a customer. This DL535e is mostly 3D printed on a narrowed Kato RSD chassis. The customer really wanted to use this chassis so the model is a little oversize, but otherwise pretty spot on. These are definitely not RTR and I probably won't make any more, but I think this is how the future of the hobby will look. With waning interest for narrow gauge stuff, modellers will be turning to modern digital manufacturing technologies to help them build models themselves. I would like to see more drive components though, as you can't really print that. I will be selling the 3D files for this and a scale version of the shell on my website soon. -Zach On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 1:45 PM Geodyssey <east@...> wrote: I also read that article and I agree that not only narrow gauge diesels are needed, but small locos (less than 80 tons) would also be welcome in standard gauge. 
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Mick Moignard
I think one needs to consider whether a run of WP&Y diesels in HOn3 would sell around 1000 items (minimum)? If not, then it’s not going to happen. Even if they were to do them also in fantasy Rio Grande, RGS, EBT or Tweetsie liveries, I doubt that there are enough buyers.
But I could be wrong. I hope I am, but I rather doubt it. Mick ________________________________ Mick Moignard m: +44 7774 652504 Skype: mickmoignard The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF. |
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Don’t forget Durango &Silverton has some now.
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Bruce Dunlevy On Jul 9, 2022, at 3:45 PM, Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:
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Mark Lewis
Zack Pabis, In your post above, regarding your building of WP&Y diesel units in HOn3...why did you say...."
With waning interest for narrow gauge stuff ".....????? What waning interest? Where did you get that idea or statistics from? With the number of postings on this and other social media Narrow Gauge Modeling groups and the many Narrow Gauge Modeling Facebook groups that exist with a healthy number of postings, every day...I don't think your comment is warranted. Just my opinion....yours or others may vary. Mark Lewis Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 4:32 PM Zach Pabis <zachpabis@...> wrote:
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Art Rogers
This was mentioned, mostly about the fact someone is making them. I've seen the Shapeways ones as well, although I haven't bought one. Art |
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Mark, I must admit I am not well educated on the subject. I have been doing commercial model building work for about 5 years now and almost everything I'm commissioned for is HO standard gauge. When starting my business I thought I would get a ton of narrow gauge projects considering I could print just about anythi, but everyone just seems to want HO. Those Alcos are my first narrow gauge projection in all that time, but perhaps that argues the opposite of what I said. In any case, I think my point still stands that modellers can't rely on traditional manufacturers, as other comments in this thread have illustrated. -Zach On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 6:18 PM Art Rogers <railroadloads@...> wrote:
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Paul Sturtz
The Wuiske diesels are nice but pretty expensive to experiment with, plus they represent heavy mainline service. If you were looking for heavy power, it would be cheaper to go this route:
 Paul |
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Mark Lewis
Zach, From your business base of HO standard gauge customers, I can see where you might think narrow gauge modeling is in a decline, but that isn't the case. I do agree with your comment about not being able to depend on "traditional manufacturers" for narrow gauge products, as I guess they have their hands full of designing and introducing standard gauge locomotives and rolling stock, every few months! Best wishes for your business. Mark Lewis Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. On Sat, Jul 9, 2022, 7:45 PM Zach Pabis <zachpabis@...> wrote:
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Robert Bell
The Wuiske Models are pretty easy to convert from HOn3.5 to Hon3. Takes about 10 or 15 minutes. Mike May and I have an article submitted to The Gazette a couple of months ago on models we both built..simultaneously...across the country from each other.. collaborating as we built. Bob Brown has not given us a date for publication as yet. When we built our models, the Wuiske Models locomotives were $295 Australian plus shipping. That equaled out to about $235 US WITH shipping for me at the time. The Wuiske model locomotives that Mike and I used were made in Tawan by Haskel, and were VERY well made and detailed. They do come with full-sized Kadee (#5) couplers, however. Also, they are DCC-ready. You will need to provide a speaker (they have space and holes in the fuel tanks), and the decoder. Rob Bell Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3 Waynesville, NC
On Saturday, July 9, 2022, 08:22:36 PM EDT, Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Zach, From your business base of HO standard gauge customers, I can see where you might think narrow gauge modeling is in a decline, but that isn't the case. I do agree with your comment about not being able to depend on "traditional manufacturers" for narrow gauge products, as I guess they have their hands full of designing and introducing standard gauge locomotives and rolling stock, every few months! Best wishes for your business. Mark Lewis Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. On Sat, Jul 9, 2022, 7:45 PM Zach Pabis <zachpabis@...> wrote:
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Art Rogers
Gonna have to keep an eye out for that article. Sounds like a future project ( or three! ). Art
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Richard Johnson
I really want some USG plaster city WP diesels. I have the psc kit for the one you modeled there in 3d but I wanted the upated wide cab version so i was going to try cutting up plastic cabs and make them fit the brass kit to size. There was a guy on instagram
that lives locally here in San Diego that built one in 3d but he sold the rights to his design to company that might produce it RTR. I dont feel like waiting if I can get a shell made up to fit my brass chassis.
Regards all
Rich Johnson
www.RichardSJohnson.net
"Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it." "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms" Thomas Jefferson From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Zach Pabis <zachpabis@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2022 1:31 PM To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> Subject: Re: [HOn3] July RMC Editorial on NG diesels For those curious, I'm working on a few of WP&Y diesels for a customer. This DL535e is mostly 3D printed on a narrowed Kato RSD chassis. The customer really wanted to use this chassis so the model is a little oversize, but otherwise pretty spot
on. These are definitely not RTR and I probably won't make any more, but I think this is how the future of the hobby will look. With waning interest for narrow gauge stuff, modellers will be turning to modern digital manufacturing technologies to help them
build models themselves. I would like to see more drive components though, as you can't really print that. I will be selling the 3D files for this and a scale version of the shell on my website soon.
-Zach
On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 1:45 PM Geodyssey <east@...> wrote:
I also read that article and I agree that not only narrow gauge diesels are needed, but small locos (less than 80 tons) would also be welcome in standard gauge. |
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Robert Bell
Richard, There was an article in a mid-1990s RMC0n modeling the wide cab version. I will look later for which issue. Rob Bell Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3 Waynesville, NC
On Sunday, July 10, 2022, 01:00:53 PM EDT, Richard Johnson <killroy321@...> wrote:
I really want some USG plaster city WP diesels. I have the psc kit for the one you modeled there in 3d but I wanted the upated wide cab version so i was going to try cutting up plastic cabs and make them fit the brass kit to size. There was a guy on instagram
that lives locally here in San Diego that built one in 3d but he sold the rights to his design to company that might produce it RTR. I dont feel like waiting if I can get a shell made up to fit my brass chassis.
Regards all
Rich Johnson
www.RichardSJohnson.net
"Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it." "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms" Thomas Jefferson From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Zach Pabis <zachpabis@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2022 1:31 PM To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> Subject: Re: [HOn3] July RMC Editorial on NG diesels For those curious, I'm working on a few of WP&Y diesels for a customer. This DL535e is mostly 3D printed on a narrowed Kato RSD chassis. The customer really wanted to use this chassis so the model is a little oversize, but otherwise pretty spot
on. These are definitely not RTR and I probably won't make any more, but I think this is how the future of the hobby will look. With waning interest for narrow gauge stuff, modellers will be turning to modern digital manufacturing technologies to help them
build models themselves. I would like to see more drive components though, as you can't really print that. I will be selling the 3D files for this and a scale version of the shell on my website soon.
-Zach
On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 1:45 PM Geodyssey <east@...> wrote:
I also read that article and I agree that not only narrow gauge diesels are needed, but small locos (less than 80 tons) would also be welcome in standard gauge. |
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John Stutz
Paul
Cheaper perhaps, if you can find or make the shorter than North American standard wheelbase trucks, but these are big engines, recycled North American SG power and retain their original width and height. The EMD DDM45 on Brazil's Victoria a Minas (EFVM) was the original version: 85 slightly lengthened SD45s on 4-axle meter (39.37") gauge trucks. The Brazilian BB+BB conversions of second hand US CC diesels are significantly cheaper than new construction. The extra motors serve as much to spread the power (and heat) over motors that are necessarily shorter than SG motors, as they serve to spread the weight. Despite its meter gauge, the EFVM is a heavy haul iron ore export railroad, and needs the same sort of power as US iron ore railroads. Queensland's larger 42" gauge diesels were similarly purchased for their coal export traffic.
The more common meter and 42" gauge export power generally had a smaller cross section, roughly the same width and height as the White Pass Alcos - which were a standard NG export design. While the DL-535E was specific to the White Pass, earlier high nose versions were widely distributed, and even built under license in Spain for South America and in India. For a decade or two, DL-535's were standard Indian Railways meter gauge power. GE's U12C was their DL-535 equivalent, and EMD's GT-18C was only slightly more powerful, although EMD's NG traction motor could not fit between 3' gauge wheel sets. Both, along with the larger GE UxxCs and the EMD's G22C, GT22C, G26C and GT26C, saw considerable use in South America. The EFVM had purchased both GT22C's and GT26C's before ordering the DDM45s.
And for steam enthusiasts: this dominance of North American NG locomotive production, by the export market, was just as strong in the first half of the 20'th century as in the second half. For an extreme example: of the nearly 200 North American built NG Mallets, only a dozen remained on the continent - the 2 Uintah and 10 NdM 2-6-6-2s. For a taste of 20'th century North American NG steam exports, see Bruce Prior's
http://narrowmind.railfan.net. It can be argued that from about 1890 on, domestic NG locomotive purchases were little more than the tail of the dog - a mix of obsolescent traditional types (F&CC, ET&WNC, ...) and those developed for export. All of the 100+ NG Mikados were export derived, as well as the 90+ outside framed engines.
John Stutz
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