MDC Moose Jaws Loco


kevin b
 

 Mike Conder wrote:
> Kevin, seems like you could use a frame from one of the MDC NG locos
> (inside our outside) and add wipers to the insulated drivers for
> electrical pick-up.  Seems like that would do the trick?
> Mike Conder

Hello Mike.

as a matter of fact, i am starting with one of the outside frame castings.
i have removed the outer springs and "stuff" so far.
the frame though, is no where near long enough (if memory serves, the kit bash was to include cutting down the boiler etc.) which i am not going to do.
my next "step" is to lengthen the frame to fit the body.
most likely, i'll mill out the end of a piece of brass bar stock and so on.
real world crap to do, has put the project on hold.
however, winter is coming and i will be back at the bench before long.

i can update as i go if anyone is interested.

have a happy day.,
Kevin.



Mike Conder
 

I'm VERY interested!

Mike Conder

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 1:01 PM kevin b via groups.io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
 Mike Conder wrote:
> Kevin, seems like you could use a frame from one of the MDC NG locos
> (inside our outside) and add wipers to the insulated drivers for
> electrical pick-up.  Seems like that would do the trick?
> Mike Conder

Hello Mike.

as a matter of fact, i am starting with one of the outside frame castings.
i have removed the outer springs and "stuff" so far.
the frame though, is no where near long enough (if memory serves, the kit bash was to include cutting down the boiler etc.) which i am not going to do.
my next "step" is to lengthen the frame to fit the body.
most likely, i'll mill out the end of a piece of brass bar stock and so on.
real world crap to do, has put the project on hold.
however, winter is coming and i will be back at the bench before long.

i can update as i go if anyone is interested.

have a happy day.,
Kevin.



kevin b
 

I'm VERY interested!
Mike Conder

Hello All.

caught a break today, actually had some time to tinker at the train bench:

made a little progress even.

one thing (trailing truck)  is now decided. it will be a ?-8-4t.

as this is a saddle tanker, i will have to pick up one leg of current from somewhere, so, it will have to come from the trailing truck, and possibly the lead truck.
the drivers will supply the other leg.

thanks.
Kevin.


Bill Lugg
 

Couldn't you pick up off the insulated side of the drivers with some carefully placed wipers?

Just a thought...
Bill Lugg

On 11/7/20 7:25 PM, kevin b via groups.io wrote:
I'm VERY interested!
Mike Conder

Hello All.

caught a break today, actually had some time to tinker at the train bench:

made a little progress even.

one thing (trailing truck)  is now decided. it will be a ?-8-4t.

as this is a saddle tanker, i will have to pick up one leg of current from somewhere, so, it will have to come from the trailing truck, and possibly the lead truck.
the drivers will supply the other leg.

thanks.
Kevin.


Mike Conder
 

Yes, that works and is better than relying on tender or pilot trucks.  

IIRC best way was something about epoxying a PC tie to the gear cover plate, with phosphor bronze wire solder to it so it can rub on the back tread of the insulated driver.  May be thinking of another loco though ... been a while since I looked into it. 

Mike Conder

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 10:41 PM Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
Couldn't you pick up off the insulated side of the drivers with some
carefully placed wipers?

Just a thought...
Bill Lugg


On 11/7/20 7:25 PM, kevin b via groups.io wrote:
> I'm VERY interested!
> Mike Conder
>
> Hello All.
>
> caught a break today, actually had some time to tinker at the train bench:
>
> made a little progress even.
>
> one thing (trailing truck)  is now decided. it will be a ?-8-4t.
>
> as this is a saddle tanker, i will have to pick up one leg of current
> from somewhere, so, it will have to come from the trailing truck, and
> possibly the lead truck.
> the drivers will supply the other leg.
>
> thanks.
> Kevin.
>






Mark Kasprowicz
 

It's fairly standard to glue a narrow piece of PCB board on the insulated side of a loco and solder phosphor bronze wire onto it as wipers.
Using a trailing truck even a four wheel one gives just two wheel pickup on a narrow wheelbase - that's going to result in the supply having continuity issues, especially on turnouts.
There is an alternative to PCB ties and that is copper coated Kapton sheet. It's not easy to find (I got mine from the Czech Republic!) but its much tinner than ties, can mould to a shape and can be cut with scissors or a craft knife. The only thing to watch out for it making sure that the edges are insulated from the frame and I do that by letting the epoxy flow out from the sides slightly and check for insulation with a multimeter before the glue sets.

Mark K
Oxon England


Robert Bell
 

The other option is to just make a new cover plate from PC board material.  Add phosphor-bronze wipers, and wire it up.  See attache'd pict.

Rob Bell





Mark Kasprowicz
 

I just looked, and on Ebay UK it's here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLEXIBLE-POLYIMIDE-PCB-MATERIAL-KAPTON-DUPONT-AP-GTS-FLEXIBLE-KREMPEL/283961471252?hash=item421d6c3114:g:QoEAAOSwMVdYG2aQ

It is available in the US but I only found it in rolls large enough to last many lifetimes costing $$$$$'s.

Mark K
Oxon England.


Bruce
 

Not sure of availability in Europe but here in the U.S. Amazon has it.  I bought a four roll pack (life time supply) for $12.  Search "copper foil tape".

I used mine for a electric distribution bus inside my East Broad Top roundhouse.

Never thought of it for on an engine or rolling stock.  Thanks Mark!


kevin b
 

Couldn't you pick up off the insulated side of the drivers with some 
carefully placed wipers?
Just a thought...
Bill Lugg

actually, that was my first plan for picking up current. i may still yet do that, depends on how well things work.
thanks for the input.
Kevin.


Climax@...
 

You can get that copper foil sticky tape at any outlet that deals with stained glass windows.  It can be gotten in most widths, a good variety to have on hand is recommended.   In addition to what has been talked about here, you can use it inside structures, stuck to walls or under "wall paper" or sandwiched between wood, or even painted, to run power around in structures.  To change directions one only has to fold the tape and never cut it.   I also use it for copper roofs on structures as well.  With the proper chemicals you can weather the "real copper" and make it various shades of green.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce
Sent: Nov 8, 2020 8:20 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] MDC Moose Jaws Loco

Not sure of availability in Europe but here in the U.S. Amazon has it.  I bought a four roll pack (life time supply) for $12.  Search "copper foil tape".

I used mine for a electric distribution bus inside my East Broad Top roundhouse.

Never thought of it for on an engine or rolling stock.  Thanks Mark!


Mark Kasprowicz
 

Not the same stuff. The stained glass material is paper based. The stuff I am advocating is based on Kapton. Totally different.

Mark K
Oxon England.


John Stutz
 

Kevin

I intended to recommend a PCB retainer plate and wipers on the drivers, but several corespondents have already done so.  The advantage of driver wipers is that they do not reduce tractive effort as rail wipers do, and the locomotive's occasional slipping keeps the drivers cleaner than idler wheels. Very light pressure on a very small contact area will give good electrical contact without adding much drag.

Incidentally, there is a sort of prototype for your ?-8-4t: The Costa Rica Ry used inside framed 2-6-0s for road service, and outside framed 0-6-4Ts for helpers.  They had 4 from Baldwin (1892-6), and 1 from Nasmyth-Wilson in 1900.  These were side tank engines of 3'6" gauge.  There's a photograph and dimensions for the Baldwin, as built, in Modern Locomotives 1900, entry #141, p 201 & 221, at

On November 7, 2020 6:25 PM kevin b via groups.io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:



I'm VERY interested!
Mike Conder

Hello All.

caught a break today, actually had some time to tinker at the train bench:

made a little progress even.

one thing (trailing truck)  is now decided. it will be a ?-8-4t.

as this is a saddle tanker, i will have to pick up one leg of current from somewhere, so, it will have to come from the trailing truck, and possibly the lead truck.
the drivers will supply the other leg.

thanks.
Kevin.


kevin b
 

I intended to recommend a PCB retainer plate and wipers on the drivers, but several corespondents have already done so.  The advantage of driver wipers is that they do not reduce tractive effort as rail wipers do, and the locomotive's occasional slipping keeps the drivers cleaner than idler wheels. Very light pressure on a very small contact area will give good electrical contact without adding much drag. 

Incidentally, there is a sort of prototype for your ?-8-4t: The Costa Rica Ry used inside framed 2-6-0s for road service, and outside framed 0-6-4Ts for helpers.  They had 4 from Baldwin (1892-6), and 1 from Nasmyth-Wilson in 1900.  These were side tank engines of 3'6" gauge.  There's a photograph and dimensions for the Baldwin, as built, in Modern Locomotives 1900, entry #141, p 201 & 221, at


thanks very much for the input and the reference material.

some news:
i think i have made up my mind finally about the wheel arrangement.
at this time, i think i'm going to go with a 2-8-4t set up.

so,,,, for now at least, the plan is to pick up one leg from the track current through the lead and trailing trucks.
i may still yet add wipers to the insulated side of the drivers, but i think i can make it work with out that.
time will tell, and to be honest, i'm hankering to see if i can make it work without wipers.
if it doesn't work, or doesn't work well, i will certainly add wipers, and or something to maintain electrical contact.

winter is on it's way, and before much longer i should have time available to spend at the train bench and get some actual work done on the project.
meanwhile, i welcome comments and suggestions.

have a happy day.
Kevin.