Topics

Coupler thoughts

Mark Lewis
 

🤔  

Mark Lewis

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 1:33 PM burrst54 <burr.stewart@...> wrote:
It's ironic that the 714 is easy to uncouple with a pick because it has slack inside the knuckle, the very slack that drives us crazy when the whole train lurches forward and back, Sergents are easy to uncouple with a magnetic wand (in my experience) but very difficult to couple up, and 705's solve the lurch problem by having so little room inside the knuckle that they're hard to uncouple with a pick. We seem to be going in circles...

burrst54
 

It's ironic that the 714 is easy to uncouple with a pick because it has slack inside the knuckle, the very slack that drives us crazy when the whole train lurches forward and back, Sergents are easy to uncouple with a magnetic wand (in my experience) but very difficult to couple up, and 705's solve the lurch problem by having so little room inside the knuckle that they're hard to uncouple with a pick. We seem to be going in circles...

Mark Lewis
 

David:

Thanks for your reply. I wanted to clarify the source of suitable coupler boxes was not Sergent, any longer, but rather Accurail.

Mark

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019, 5:04 PM David Varney <vriderclan@...> wrote:
Mark, yes the 1031 boxs. They used to be supplied with the sergents couplers. I really like these boxes as you con cut them to  needed length with xuron rail cutters and depending on how the truck/bolster setup is you can leave the lid off the box.  I have found that a 17 radius is doable on a 30' car with full underbody detail. David v 

David Varney
 

Mark, yes the 1031 boxs. They used to be supplied with the sergents couplers. I really like these boxes as you con cut them to  needed length with xuron rail cutters and depending on how the truck/bolster setup is you can leave the lid off the box.  I have found that a 17 radius is doable on a 30' car with full underbody detail. David v 

Mike Van Hove
 

Some of Sergents couplers do come with Draft Gear Boxes.  I’m not sure, but I think they are Accurail.

Mike Van Hove

On Nov 9, 2019, at 11:52 AM, Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:

David:

I did not know Sergent was supplying draft gear boxes.  Do you mean the Accurail #1031 draft gear boxes, that readily accept the Sergent couplers?

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 12:31 PM David Varney <vriderclan@...> wrote:
I have never liked anything about the 714 couplers, thelooks,the box,the assembly,the slinky, etc. So when Duncan brought some sergeants to a club meeting one time years ago  I liked them so well i,ve done 2 bulk packs each of en87,s and the Sharon's. The sergeants coupler box allows you to replace 714 boxes fairly easily something the 705s do not do at all well. The 705s mate up well with the sergeants in looks and action. I think the 705s indicate a welcome change coming in the industry. I would like to see the 705 with a thicker shank in a714 style box for a easier coupler upgrade of older equipment,  also would like to see one with a sergents style shank and box. So yes, 705s or a variant would be welcome on new manufacturing\
. David varney 

 



Mike Van Hove
 

I pretty much agree with all David Varney said.

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 8, 2019, at 12:49 PM, David Varney <vriderclan@...> wrote:

I have never liked anything about the 714 couplers, thelooks,the box,the assembly,the slinky, etc. So when Duncan brought some sergeants to a club meeting one time years ago  I liked them so well i,ve done 2 bulk packs each of en87,s and the Sharon's. The sergeants coupler box allows you to replace 714 boxes fairly easily something the 705s do not do at all well. The 705s mate up well with the sergeants in looks and action. I think the 705s indicate a welcome change coming in the industry. I would like to see the 705 with a thicker shank in a714 style box for a easier coupler upgrade of older equipment,  also would like to see one with a sergents style shank and box. So yes, 705s or a variant would be welcome on new manufacturing\
. David varney 

 

Mark Lewis
 

David:

I did not know Sergent was supplying draft gear boxes.  Do you mean the Accurail #1031 draft gear boxes, that readily accept the Sergent couplers?

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 12:31 PM David Varney <vriderclan@...> wrote:
I have never liked anything about the 714 couplers, thelooks,the box,the assembly,the slinky, etc. So when Duncan brought some sergeants to a club meeting one time years ago  I liked them so well i,ve done 2 bulk packs each of en87,s and the Sharon's. The sergeants coupler box allows you to replace 714 boxes fairly easily something the 705s do not do at all well. The 705s mate up well with the sergeants in looks and action. I think the 705s indicate a welcome change coming in the industry. I would like to see the 705 with a thicker shank in a714 style box for a easier coupler upgrade of older equipment,  also would like to see one with a sergents style shank and box. So yes, 705s or a variant would be welcome on new manufacturing\
. David varney 

 

David Varney
 

I have never liked anything about the 714 couplers, thelooks,the box,the assembly,the slinky, etc. So when Duncan brought some sergeants to a club meeting one time years ago  I liked them so well i,ve done 2 bulk packs each of en87,s and the Sharon's. The sergeants coupler box allows you to replace 714 boxes fairly easily something the 705s do not do at all well. The 705s mate up well with the sergeants in looks and action. I think the 705s indicate a welcome change coming in the industry. I would like to see the 705 with a thicker shank in a714 style box for a easier coupler upgrade of older equipment,  also would like to see one with a sergents style shank and box. So yes, 705s or a variant would be welcome on new manufacturing\
. David varney 

 

Dale Buxton
 

Both boxes are 15/64" wide. The 714 box is 25/64" long. The 705 box is 23/64" long. The 714 box is 1/8" tall. The printed data on the 705 height comes out 1/8". But it mic's out at .106".

I think it would be very helpful if the Kadee "Sam the Answer Guy" would post on the Kadee web site some of the conversion solutions that we the user public have devised that short-cut the entire 714 clone coupler box removal for the 705 boxes installation! There are several and they are all good alternatives.

Dale Buxton     

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 3:34 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
For those of you who have them: what are the dimensional differences between the two coupler boxes?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 2:25 PM NarrowMinded1 <nathan.kline83@...> wrote:
I wish they would have made a drop-in replacement, ala #158, for the #714's so you wouldn't have to hack up a car to put their coupler box and #705 coupler on.

Nathan


"Chris:

My experience with 705's has been positive, although some installs need an unreasonable amount of tinkering to get them installed. The 705's couple/uncouple to 714's, to my satisfaction (I am a manual/"skewer" uncoupler user) and will couple to the Sergent equipped car I built, but uncoupling can be a challenge.

My vote to your question is...705's.

My hope is that Kadee takes the many concerns voiced by HOn3 modelers and offers a smaller draft gear box to contain a coupler shank that would swap into molded on Blackstone and Rail Line draft gear boxes, without surgery.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C."

--
Nathan Kline
Tiadaghton Valley Railroad & Coal Co.
McConnellsburg, PA
--------------------------------------------------
Web: https://www.tiadaghtonvalleyrr.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TiadaghtonValleyRailroad/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ

Mike Conder
 

For those of you who have them: what are the dimensional differences between the two coupler boxes?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 2:25 PM NarrowMinded1 <nathan.kline83@...> wrote:
I wish they would have made a drop-in replacement, ala #158, for the #714's so you wouldn't have to hack up a car to put their coupler box and #705 coupler on.

Nathan


"Chris:

My experience with 705's has been positive, although some installs need an unreasonable amount of tinkering to get them installed. The 705's couple/uncouple to 714's, to my satisfaction (I am a manual/"skewer" uncoupler user) and will couple to the Sergent equipped car I built, but uncoupling can be a challenge.

My vote to your question is...705's.

My hope is that Kadee takes the many concerns voiced by HOn3 modelers and offers a smaller draft gear box to contain a coupler shank that would swap into molded on Blackstone and Rail Line draft gear boxes, without surgery.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C."

--
Nathan Kline
Tiadaghton Valley Railroad & Coal Co.
McConnellsburg, PA
--------------------------------------------------
Web: https://www.tiadaghtonvalleyrr.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TiadaghtonValleyRailroad/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ

NarrowMinded1
 

I wish they would have made a drop-in replacement, ala #158, for the #714's so you wouldn't have to hack up a car to put their coupler box and #705 coupler on.

Nathan


"Chris:

My experience with 705's has been positive, although some installs need an unreasonable amount of tinkering to get them installed. The 705's couple/uncouple to 714's, to my satisfaction (I am a manual/"skewer" uncoupler user) and will couple to the Sergent equipped car I built, but uncoupling can be a challenge.

My vote to your question is...705's.

My hope is that Kadee takes the many concerns voiced by HOn3 modelers and offers a smaller draft gear box to contain a coupler shank that would swap into molded on Blackstone and Rail Line draft gear boxes, without surgery.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C."

--
Nathan Kline
Tiadaghton Valley Railroad & Coal Co.
McConnellsburg, PA
--------------------------------------------------
Web: https://www.tiadaghtonvalleyrr.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TiadaghtonValleyRailroad/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ

claneon30
 

All good. Getting the info that the 705 mate with the Sergents in most instances is helpful to me.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:21 PM, Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@...> wrote:

I know, Chris. in fact, your articles in the Annuals are what got me to try them. 

I have since installed them on 198 HO Std Gage cars, and they worked quite well.

I’ve since sold the entire Colorado Midland std gage layout and all the rolling stock.

I’m now starting on an HOn3 D&RG Chili Line layout and all the cars i’ve built have Sergents.

I just had to rattle your cage a little.  🤪

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 7, 2019, at 1:34 PM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

I was looking for feedback between the Kadees. The Sergents are great and I know some folks love them (remember I had a long article on installing them in the 2011 HOn3 Annual). But they are a different animal and unlikely to be included with a RTR car.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 11:14 AM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

Just because Chris says don't say it, does not mean the rest of us don't want data.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 9:59 AM Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@...> wrote:

Do NOT say Sergents.  ( I guess that leaves me out of the discussion.)  🤔


Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 7, 2019, at 11:11 AM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

Comrade Train Enthusiasts,

 

Now that the Kadee 705 have been out for awhile and we've had a chance to play with them, I have an informal polling question.

 

If someone were to offer a new ready-to-run car as we've seen from Blackstone or Micro-Trains, which coupler would you want it to come with: 714 or 705s?

 

Do NOT say Sergents.

 

Chris Lane





-- 
lloyd lehrer



Mike Van Hove
 

I know, Chris. in fact, your articles in the Annuals are what got me to try them. 

I have since installed them on 198 HO Std Gage cars, and they worked quite well.

I’ve since sold the entire Colorado Midland std gage layout and all the rolling stock.

I’m now starting on an HOn3 D&RG Chili Line layout and all the cars i’ve built have Sergents.

I just had to rattle your cage a little.  🤪

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 7, 2019, at 1:34 PM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

I was looking for feedback between the Kadees. The Sergents are great and I know some folks love them (remember I had a long article on installing them in the 2011 HOn3 Annual). But they are a different animal and unlikely to be included with a RTR car.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 11:14 AM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

Just because Chris says don't say it, does not mean the rest of us don't want data.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 9:59 AM Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@...> wrote:

Do NOT say Sergents.  ( I guess that leaves me out of the discussion.)  🤔


Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 7, 2019, at 11:11 AM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

Comrade Train Enthusiasts,

 

Now that the Kadee 705 have been out for awhile and we've had a chance to play with them, I have an informal polling question.

 

If someone were to offer a new ready-to-run car as we've seen from Blackstone or Micro-Trains, which coupler would you want it to come with: 714 or 705s?

 

Do NOT say Sergents.

 

Chris Lane





-- 
lloyd lehrer


hiroechan
 

Dusty,

I rather agree with you about a drop-in shank; personally I'd like to see short, medium, and long standard shanks (or even just shorter and longer). 

In the meantime though, I'm not letting that hold me up from improving the look of my fleet. On a whole train, the overall look is worth the effort, to my eye.

-Drew McCann


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 7:19 PM Dusty <dustburm@q.com> wrote:
No on the 705 with the current shank. Give me a 705 coupler to effortlessly retro fit most existing equipment before making the 705 the defacto std. 714s and 705s aren't ALWAYS the best coupling and uncoupling mates. Two 705s can be pretty tight for 'picking'.

The first '705' could/should have been a drop in for 714 compatible boxes. I just assembled a 714 and melt welded the split knuckle parts together. Guess what? They still pivot and center (oops, and bounce). So anyone with a Blackstone piece of equipment, a screw driver, a knife, one right thumb and one left thumb could improve the appearance of that engine or car with a drop in. Let's see? If half of the existing Blackstone cars got drop in 705s at $2.75+- a car how much $ is that? Plus the lost spring replacement revenue! 

Look at the HO 'scale' coupler model. Narrow box for scratch builder and such. But a #5 box compatible choice for existing applications. Why not Hon3.

Dusty Burman 

Dusty
 

No on the 705 with the current shank. Give me a 705 coupler to effortlessly retro fit most existing equipment before making the 705 the defacto std. 714s and 705s aren't ALWAYS the best coupling and uncoupling mates. Two 705s can be pretty tight for 'picking'.

The first '705' could/should have been a drop in for 714 compatible boxes. I just assembled a 714 and melt welded the split knuckle parts together. Guess what? They still pivot and center (oops, and bounce). So anyone with a Blackstone piece of equipment, a screw driver, a knife, one right thumb and one left thumb could improve the appearance of that engine or car with a drop in. Let's see? If half of the existing Blackstone cars got drop in 705s at $2.75+- a car how much $ is that? Plus the lost spring replacement revenue! 

Look at the HO 'scale' coupler model. Narrow box for scratch builder and such. But a #5 box compatible choice for existing applications. Why not Hon3.

Dusty Burman 

Mark Lewis
 

Chris:

My experience with 705's has been positive, although some installs need an unreasonable amount of tinkering to get them installed. The 705's couple/uncouple to 714's, to my satisfaction (I am a manual/"skewer" uncoupler user) and will couple to the Sergent equipped car I built, but uncoupling can be a challenge.

My vote to your question is...705's.

My hope is that Kadee takes the many concerns voiced by HOn3 modelers and offers a smaller draft gear box to contain a coupler shank that would swap into molded on Blackstone and Rail Line draft gear boxes, without surgery.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 4:39 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
That was the thrust of my inquiry. Has the industry standard changed? And taking this a bit further, assuming Blackstone releases a new car (and I have no knowledge that that is the case) would they stick with the 714 as before?

The reason for my inquiry is that while I own a semi-stupid amount of HOn3, I am not currently actively modeling in the scale and wanted to get the thoughts of those who are. While I don’t know of anything specific, (so don’t get excited) I assume that at some point in the future, Blackstone, Micro-Trains (or whoever buys that tooling) or some new player in HOn3 is going to be asking themselves this question, and wanted to have an answer in my mind should I be asked.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:

Blackstone considered Sergents but realised #714's are regarded as industry standards and that was an insurrmountable barrier.

Mark K

claneon30
 

That was the thrust of my inquiry. Has the industry standard changed? And taking this a bit further, assuming Blackstone releases a new car (and I have no knowledge that that is the case) would they stick with the 714 as before?

The reason for my inquiry is that while I own a semi-stupid amount of HOn3, I am not currently actively modeling in the scale and wanted to get the thoughts of those who are. While I don’t know of anything specific, (so don’t get excited) I assume that at some point in the future, Blackstone, Micro-Trains (or whoever buys that tooling) or some new player in HOn3 is going to be asking themselves this question, and wanted to have an answer in my mind should I be asked.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:

Blackstone considered Sergents but realised #714's are regarded as industry standards and that was an insurrmountable barrier.

Mark K

claneon30
 

Good one!

As Mark K pointed out, I doubt they would be considered by any manufacturer for the RTR market., which was my premise. Say thing in the O scale market, it would be either the Kadee 803 or the San Juan Evolution, even though there are other brands/sizes in use. 

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Jeff Young <jeff@...> wrote:

OK, if I can’t say “Sergents” then: “whichever is easiest to replace with a Sergent”. ;)



Art D3
 


With the smaller coupler box, I would say the 705s.

Art Dutra


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone

--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Blackstone considered Sergents but realised #714's are regarded as industry standards and that was an insurrmountable barrier.

Mark K