Topics

D&RG early 2-8-0


Climax@...
 

Mike, I got you beat!  All three of my "kids" were kits put together by my wife over a period 7 and 9 months!  She did a fine job of assembly and the finishes were excellent!  Talk about Sound, the speakers were loud and clear.  I do have to admit that the ash pans were well used and the fires need feeding, it seemed to be endlessly.  For 0-4-0's they got along pretty good with no track at all, until they got to the 0-2-0 stage in which we needed bumpers in various locations.  Seems the cab roof kept hitting low obstructions which caused the sound systems to activate.
Mule

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Conder
Sent: Sep 9, 2019 12:06 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] D&RG early 2-8-0

Both my kids came in shoe boxes!  But the solid both is probably a good give-away ....

Mike Conder

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 8:38 AM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
There were two runs of Kemtron kits.  The first run is in s little box and has the earlier drivers. The second run is a more refined kit with superior etchings and better drivers.  It’s the one in the brown rectangular box.  
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Nice to know, but what do you mean by "updated drivers?". How can you tell which ones are the updated ones?

I know very little about the various versions of the Kemtron kits, though I have one with a solid brass boiler.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:35 PM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


jczul36
 

Lol
The first kits where tender drive models


On Sep 8, 2019, at 9:08 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

We, both my KITS came in shoe boxes.  Darn autocorrect!

Mike Conder

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 10:06 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Both my kids came in shoe boxes!  But the solid both is probably a good give-away ....

Mike Conder

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 8:38 AM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
There were two runs of Kemtron kits.  The first run is in s little box and has the earlier drivers. The second run is a more refined kit with superior etchings and better drivers.  It’s the one in the brown rectangular box.  
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Nice to know, but what do you mean by "updated drivers?". How can you tell which ones are the updated ones?

I know very little about the various versions of the Kemtron kits, though I have one with a solid brass boiler.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:35 PM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Mike Conder
 

We, both my KITS came in shoe boxes.  Darn autocorrect!

Mike Conder

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 10:06 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Both my kids came in shoe boxes!  But the solid both is probably a good give-away ....

Mike Conder

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 8:38 AM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
There were two runs of Kemtron kits.  The first run is in s little box and has the earlier drivers. The second run is a more refined kit with superior etchings and better drivers.  It’s the one in the brown rectangular box.  
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Nice to know, but what do you mean by "updated drivers?". How can you tell which ones are the updated ones?

I know very little about the various versions of the Kemtron kits, though I have one with a solid brass boiler.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:35 PM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Mike Conder
 

Both my kids came in shoe boxes!  But the solid both is probably a good give-away ....

Mike Conder

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 8:38 AM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
There were two runs of Kemtron kits.  The first run is in s little box and has the earlier drivers. The second run is a more refined kit with superior etchings and better drivers.  It’s the one in the brown rectangular box.  
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Nice to know, but what do you mean by "updated drivers?". How can you tell which ones are the updated ones?

I know very little about the various versions of the Kemtron kits, though I have one with a solid brass boiler.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:35 PM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


jczul36
 

There were two runs of Kemtron kits.  The first run is in s little box and has the earlier drivers. The second run is a more refined kit with superior etchings and better drivers.  It’s the one in the brown rectangular box.  
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Nice to know, but what do you mean by "updated drivers?". How can you tell which ones are the updated ones?

I know very little about the various versions of the Kemtron kits, though I have one with a solid brass boiler.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:35 PM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Lee Gustafson
 

JC,

Thanks for the reply re: Kemtron C-16’s. My experience with those kits goes back about 45 years when Len Madsen, Al Kamn, John Carruthers and I built what must have been the very first kits available, solid boilers, tender drive, all brass wheels they ran but it took it a lot of loving work to get them to move. I believe a picture of John Carruthers HOn3 and On3 C-16’s appeared in MR long ago. I do remember Bob V’s article on his C-16 and was truly impressed as I am with your work. Take care and best wishes.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 9:39 PM, jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36@...> wrote:

Lee,I did the blackstone to see if it could be done.  Bob V., Dave Garcia, I, and others have been able to make them perform flawlessly.  
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Mike Conder
 

Nice to know, but what do you mean by "updated drivers?". How can you tell which ones are the updated ones?

I know very little about the various versions of the Kemtron kits, though I have one with a solid brass boiler.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:35 PM jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


jczul36
 

Lee,I did the blackstone to see if it could be done.  Bob V., Dave Garcia, I, and others have been able to make them perform flawlessly.  
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


jczul36
 

Mike the old Kemtron’s run great if it’s the one with updated drivers.  I use a NWSL 28-1 gearbox and replace the Kemtron Gearbox. I did the Blackstone just to see if I could do it.
jc


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Those Class 56 locos were very, very similar to the later Class 60 locos that became the C-16's when the D&RG became the D&RGW.  Basically only an inch or two difference in both diameters ... hard to see in HO.

I have the same issue, as I model an area that received three surplus Class 56 locos from the D&RG/RGW/RGS.  I have a couple of Kemtron kits for parts that I am thinking of adding to Westside C-16's, essentially rebuilding the superstructure and using the Kemtron tender.  

JC Zuolaga recently took a Blackstone C-19 and married it to a Kemtron but that took a lot of frame work too.  But it runs a lot better than an old Kemtron (not saying much, a brick sometimes runs better than an old Kemtron!)

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:30 AM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Thanks Bruce. I'll start looking......

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Brian Kopp
 

Here is the smokebox area photo I meant to include......wish the sun had been at a better angle for these......

Brian Kopp


Brian Kopp
 

Ken, thanks for the note on the #191. I just double checked the roster in my copy of Poor's DSP&P, and you are right of course. Then I remembered my photos from my trip to the CRM a few months ago and found a couple of the fireman's side and smoke box area of 191. See attached. My photos and the great engineer's side photos in Ferrell's DRG Early Years text should give me plenty to get started with.....

Wished I had started to look around at my own books and photos before I bothered you guys with the photo question a few hours ago.....

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Brian Kopp
 

Thanks for all the great ideas everybody. Maybe a mix of this and that details on top of a decent mechanism is the better way to go...

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Mike Conder
 

Excellent!  I used a bunch of these in my Class 70 conversion of the BS C-19 a few years back ) see an old HOn3 Annual for details).  Glad to hear the parts are back available, I got mine from Coronado.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 6:32 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The new owners of Precision Scale Models in Washington state are listing many of the original C-16 parts on eBay. I believe a call to them during business hours may provide more information. I’ll see if I can find their phone number.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Exactly.  And why I'm looking at doing the same but using a Westside C-16 as the donor mech with Kemtron details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:59 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Lee Gustafson
 

PF&S railway supply phone number 509 528 9711 may have C-16 parts. They’re located in Pasco, Washington.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Exactly.  And why I'm looking at doing the same but using a Westside C-16 as the donor mech with Kemtron details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:59 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Lee Gustafson
 

The new owners of Precision Scale Models in Washington state are listing many of the original C-16 parts on eBay. I believe a call to them during business hours may provide more information. I’ll see if I can find their phone number.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Exactly.  And why I'm looking at doing the same but using a Westside C-16 as the donor mech with Kemtron details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:59 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Mike Conder
 

The early Class 60 locos look virtually identical to the early Class 56 locos.  Also, the early Class 70 (later C-19) locos are almost identical in most details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:21 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Bob (and everyone) are there any good photos to be found of the Class 56 locos? I know the Class 56 (10-24E) drawing is in the Baldwin narrow gauge loco book but I haven't done a deep dive on any of the other D&RG books yet....

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Mike Conder
 

Exactly.  And why I'm looking at doing the same but using a Westside C-16 as the donor mech with Kemtron details.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:59 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Lee Gustafson
 

The Kemtron early or intermediate C-16 kit will provide the parts to build a reasonable class 56 2-8-0 but the mechanism will be a challenge if not a significant source of frustration. I believe that is the reason Juan Carlos adapted a Blackstone C-19 mechanism to the Kemtron C-16 superstructure. YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Sep 7, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...> wrote:

Brian,

 

I would suggest (if you can find one) a Kemtron early C-16.  They made kits of the early, intermediate, and modern C-16’s. The later models (Westside and others) were typically modeled after the four remaining C-16’s and all in the modern versions.  I have occasionally seen the Kemtrons on ebay.  Hope this helps.

 

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Brian Kopp
 

Mike I have heard the Kemtron C-16 kits are challenging. That said I solder all the time for my work so maybe I can fumble thru a couple of them if I can find them....

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Brian Kopp
 

Bob (and everyone) are there any good photos to be found of the Class 56 locos? I know the Class 56 (10-24E) drawing is in the Baldwin narrow gauge loco book but I haven't done a deep dive on any of the other D&RG books yet....

Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL