Topics

NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

David Keith
 

I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large "pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did.  I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Brian Kopp
 

The March/April 2017 Gazette has an article on this very topic. Craig Symington is the author.
He tried a 25x12 motor but it was not strong enough. He then went with a Faulhaber 1319 but noted the high cost.
For gearing he used a NWSL 140-6 (281) but noted it was a little big and he had to remove some frame material.
This is a brass bashing article and he does a nice job of detailing the interior and exterior, including adding a backhead to hide the new smaller motor.
Lots of part numbers given. A real nice step by step article.
Brian

Bill Lugg
 

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end.  If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG).  Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay).  They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them.  FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington.  I figured for the price, it's worth a try.  Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large
"pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did. 
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

 

Locodoc.com

Bruce Dunlevy


On May 17, 2019, at 11:04 AM, David Keith <dckeith14@...> wrote:

I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large "pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did.  I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Pete C
 

Hey Bill
I am part of the R&RG group and I can vouch for those Minebea motors along with the Mabuchi SF-266SA.
The Minebea are 15mm square and the Mabuchi is 18mm square.
Both are very quiet and powerful for their size and rival many coreless motors.
The Minebea do not have integral capacitors while the Mabuchi do have them and can play havoc with some decoder BEMF but can be tweaked to work well. I remove them before installing.
I put one of those 15mm gems in several switchers and a couple smaller engines like a Hallmark C-21 and the performance is assume.
If there is room for the 18mm it is my “go to” motor for everything except the larger road engines and articulateds. Is typically use a 22x30 Maxon A-max class motor.

In summary those 15mm and 18mm motors are well worth the $2 bucks.
I have a stash of 40 of each.

Pete

On May 21, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end. If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG). Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay). They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them. FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington. I figured for the price, it's worth a try. Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass. It has a large
"pittman-like" motor. I do not have the original box. I never did.
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21? With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Bill Lugg
 

So, Pete, just to be clear I bought a dozen of these
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/273005755478).  You're saying these don't have
the caps in them?

I also bought a few of these (https://www.ebay.com/itm/122078943020) and
if I understand you correctly, you're saying they do have the caps in
them, right?  If so, this is curious because the fifth photo of the
motor shows it disassembled and I don't see the little PCB that I've
seen in other photos.

Thanks
Bill

On 5/21/19 11:34 AM, Pete C wrote:
Hey Bill
I am part of the R&RG group and I can vouch for those Minebea motors along with the Mabuchi SF-266SA.
The Minebea are 15mm square and the Mabuchi is 18mm square.
Both are very quiet and powerful for their size and rival many coreless motors.
The Minebea do not have integral capacitors while the Mabuchi do have them and can play havoc with some decoder BEMF but can be tweaked to work well. I remove them before installing.
I put one of those 15mm gems in several switchers and a couple smaller engines like a Hallmark C-21 and the performance is assume.
If there is room for the 18mm it is my “go to” motor for everything except the larger road engines and articulateds. Is typically use a 22x30 Maxon A-max class motor.

In summary those 15mm and 18mm motors are well worth the $2 bucks.
I have a stash of 40 of each.

Pete

On May 21, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end. If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG). Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay). They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them. FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington. I figured for the price, it's worth a try. Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass. It has a large
"pittman-like" motor. I do not have the original box. I never did.
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21? With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Pete C
 

Yes , no caps with the 15mm Minebea. For the Mabuchi you are looking at, its an SH and not an SA so it’s possible that the ones you are looking at are made without the caps.
The only way to know for sure is open it when you get them or maybe we can find a spec sheet that will explain the suffixes.
I hope they are without because there are a number of folks that won’t use these due to having to open the motor and do surgery.

Pete

On May 21, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

So, Pete, just to be clear I bought a dozen of these
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/273005755478). You're saying these don't have
the caps in them?

I also bought a few of these (https://www.ebay.com/itm/122078943020) and
if I understand you correctly, you're saying they do have the caps in
them, right? If so, this is curious because the fifth photo of the
motor shows it disassembled and I don't see the little PCB that I've
seen in other photos.

Thanks
Bill


On 5/21/19 11:34 AM, Pete C wrote:
Hey Bill
I am part of the R&RG group and I can vouch for those Minebea motors along with the Mabuchi SF-266SA.
The Minebea are 15mm square and the Mabuchi is 18mm square.
Both are very quiet and powerful for their size and rival many coreless motors.
The Minebea do not have integral capacitors while the Mabuchi do have them and can play havoc with some decoder BEMF but can be tweaked to work well. I remove them before installing.
I put one of those 15mm gems in several switchers and a couple smaller engines like a Hallmark C-21 and the performance is assume.
If there is room for the 18mm it is my “go to” motor for everything except the larger road engines and articulateds. Is typically use a 22x30 Maxon A-max class motor.

In summary those 15mm and 18mm motors are well worth the $2 bucks.
I have a stash of 40 of each.

Pete

On May 21, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end. If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG). Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay). They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them. FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington. I figured for the price, it's worth a try. Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass. It has a large
"pittman-like" motor. I do not have the original box. I never did.
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21? With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Pete C
 

Here is a link to the Mabuchi site with an explanation of the motor number codes.  Unfortunately there is not an explanation for the H vs A in the suffix.  Only to contact Mabuchi for details for each motor.
Oh well, we are still going to have to open one to know.


Pete


On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 4:49 PM Pete C via Groups.Io <sp4450=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Yes , no caps with the 15mm Minebea. For the Mabuchi you are looking at, its an SH and not an SA so it’s possible that the ones you are looking at are made without the caps.
  The only way to know for sure is open it when you get them or maybe we can find a spec sheet that will explain the suffixes.
  I hope they are without because there are a number of folks that won’t use these due to having to open the motor and do surgery.

Pete



> On May 21, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
>
> So, Pete, just to be clear I bought a dozen of these
> (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273005755478).  You're saying these don't have
> the caps in them?
>
> I also bought a few of these (https://www.ebay.com/itm/122078943020) and
> if I understand you correctly, you're saying they do have the caps in
> them, right?  If so, this is curious because the fifth photo of the
> motor shows it disassembled and I don't see the little PCB that I've
> seen in other photos.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
>
>> On 5/21/19 11:34 AM, Pete C wrote:
>> Hey Bill
>>   I am part of the R&RG group and I can vouch for those Minebea motors along with the Mabuchi SF-266SA.
>> The Minebea are 15mm square and the Mabuchi is 18mm square.
>> Both are very quiet and powerful for their size and rival many coreless motors.
>> The Minebea do not have integral capacitors while the Mabuchi do have them and can play havoc with some decoder BEMF but can be tweaked to work well.  I remove them before installing.
>> I put one of those 15mm gems in several switchers and a couple smaller engines like a Hallmark C-21 and the performance is assume.
>> If there is room for the 18mm it is my “go to” motor for everything except the larger road engines and articulateds. Is typically use a 22x30 Maxon A-max class motor.
>>
>> In summary those 15mm and 18mm motors are well worth the $2 bucks.
>> I have a stash of 40 of each.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>> On May 21, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> A couple of general thoughts...
>>>
>>> First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
>>> project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
>>> my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
>>> be right up to the end.  If you order something, expect it to take a while.
>>>
>>> Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
>>> about repowering a Westside loco (SG).  Several folks recommended the
>>> Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
>>> Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
>>> eBay).  They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
>>> have had good luck with them.  FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
>>> with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
>>> Symington.  I figured for the price, it's worth a try.  Also, they are
>>> recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> Bill Lugg
>>>
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>> On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
>>>> I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large
>>>> "pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did.
>>>> I have a note, that it might be a balboa?
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd
>>>> like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
>>>> when I start the project.
>>>>
>>>> Dave K.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> David Keith
>>>> Cincinnati, OH
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



Craig Symington
 

Brian,

Thanks for the kind comments.

As an update. If I were to do this project again I’d look at the minebea 15mm square motor or some other Chinese motor off eBay. They weren’t available (or at least known to me) when I wrote that article.

Craig Symington.

Brian Kopp
 

My pleasure Craig. Nice to meet you.
I was talking with Dave Hoffman on the phone a month ago or so and he too is moving to these ultra-cheap DC motors. He reminded me of a website I know about, being an electrical engineer, that sells surplus electronics including motors: Allelectronics out in Los Angeles (allelectronics.com). Just before posting this I went to their website and they have about 45 different DC and geared DC motors, many for a $1 or $2. They even had a stock of used faulhaber 1624s with a 22:1 gearhead attached for under $8 each. I almost fell off the chair. I have some Minebea's on order from ebay for late June delivery but I ordered a used faulhaber from allelectronics just to see what it would do......

Brian