Topics

K-36 and K-37

Dave Trimble
 

Folks, 

Can you tell the difference between a K-36 and a K-37 if all you can see is the boiler and domes?

Thanks, Dave

Lee Gustafson
 

The K 36 domes are for lack of a better term “smooth” without a recessed band. The K 37 domes have a “recessed band”. I’m sure others will offer other spotting features but I’ve found the difference in domes to be useful.

Lee Gustafson 


On May 17, 2019, at 6:30 PM, Dave Trimble <dtrimble@...> wrote:

Folks, 

Can you tell the difference between a K-36 and a K-37 if all you can see is the boiler and domes?

Thanks, Dave

Doug Cummings
 

K37's are rebuilds of s.g. locos and look quite different. 



Folks, 

Can you tell the difference between a K-36 and a K-37 if all you can see is the boiler and domes?

Thanks, Dave
_._,_._,_


Lee Gustafson
 

Dave,

The K-37's, I believe if my memory is correct, were built with boilers from standard gauge C-41 2-8-0's which accounts for the style of dome covers. The K-36's were built by Baldwin as narrow gauge locomotives which explains their dome covers. I encourage others to correct me if my memory is incorrect or additional information is available.

Lee Gustafson


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Cummings <dougcummings@...>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Sat, May 18, 2019 9:42 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

K37's are rebuilds of s.g. locos and look quite different. 



Folks, 

Can you tell the difference between a K-36 and a K-37 if all you can see is the boiler and domes?

Thanks, Dave

Ray
 

I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.
Ray

Earl Knoob
 

Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Ray <rayhon3@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 11:39 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.
Ray

Mike Conder
 

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?

Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Ray <rayhon3@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 11:39 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.
Ray

Doug Cummings
 

Examples of the D&RGW K-36 and K-37 both exist today. . The K37's are converted standard gauge locomotives.

DEC


From: "Mike Conder" <vulturenest1@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:06:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?
Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.




 

Earl Knoob
 

The simple mechanics of placing the frames outside of the drive wheels makes the engine wider, allowing the larger boiler to set lower in the frame and be more stable.  The distance across the tops of the outside edges of the  frames on an outside frame 3' gauge locomotive is around  59".  By the time you add the driving boxes and counterwieghts and/or cranks to the end of the axles you are wider than a similar sized standard gauge locomotive.  A standard gauge engine is around 48" across the tops of the frames.

Makes no difference if it is a 2-8-0 or a 2-8-2,  an outside frame 3' gauge engine is wider than a comparable standard gauge machine.  


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Doug Cummings <dougcummings@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 6:13 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
Examples of the D&RGW K-36 and K-37 both exist today. . The K37's are converted standard gauge locomotives.

DEC


From: "Mike Conder" <vulturenest1@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:06:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?
Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.




 

Mark Kasprowicz
 
Edited

That would be a standard gauge INSIDE frame locomotive, surely! There are other differences between the two. K-37's have the whistle and safety valve mounted behind the steam dome, the 36's have them on the steam dome. Another clue is that most 36's have number boards either side of the stach as well as flanking the headlight, 378's only had them either side of the stack but not all 36 were like that.

Mark K
Oxon England.

Dusty
 

For your final exam check Ebay for 'k37 hon3'. Is one really a k36 with a k27 tender?

Dusty Burman

Brian Kopp
 

All right sensei, the one tender that has the wrong steps, has a much lower rear deck and is missing a doghouse just doesn't look like the other two on ebay (or the pictures on google for 491). 
Not a k-37 tender?
Brian (novice grasshopper)

Lee Gustafson
 

buyer beware!


-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 24, 2019 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

For your final exam check Ebay for 'k37 hon3'. Is one really a k36 with a k27 tender?

Dusty Burman

Earl Knoob
 

No, a K37 with a K27 tender!


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 5:57 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
For your final exam check Ebay for 'k37 hon3'. Is one really a k36 with a k27 tender?

Dusty Burman

Dale Buxton
 

It gets worse. The loco is actually a PFM K-37 from the early 60's and the tender  is a a Westside  K-27's from a modern slide or piston valve model from the late 70's. All in a Westside K-37 box. On average, the asking price is about $400 over what the model is worth to a knowledgeable buyer. If it in fact had all the correct pieces for a PFM K-37. This has to be an estate model that got all the components switched around when it was last sold. We are seeing more and more of that these days. Modelers passing away and widow's not knowing thing one about their late husband's collection. In come the estate reapers that know just about as much as the widow. This seller has some of the most over priced second hand models I've seen this year. I wish him luck.

Dale Buxton

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 6:20 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
buyer beware!


-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 24, 2019 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

For your final exam check Ebay for 'k37 hon3'. Is one really a k36 with a k27 tender?

Dusty Burman

Brian Kopp
 

Dale,
I am curious what tells you it is a PFM vs a WMC?

Brian (novice collector)

On Fri, May 24, 2019, 10:14 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
It gets worse. The loco is actually a PFM K-37 from the early 60's and the tender  is a a Westside  K-27's from a modern slide or piston valve model from the late 70's. All in a Westside K-37 box. On average, the asking price is about $400 over what the model is worth to a knowledgeable buyer. If it in fact had all the correct pieces for a PFM K-37. This has to be an estate model that got all the components switched around when it was last sold. We are seeing more and more of that these days. Modelers passing away and widow's not knowing thing one about their late husband's collection. In come the estate reapers that know just about as much as the widow. This seller has some of the most over priced second hand models I've seen this year. I wish him luck.

Dale Buxton

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 6:20 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
buyer beware!


-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 24, 2019 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

For your final exam check Ebay for 'k37 hon3'. Is one really a k36 with a k27 tender?

Dusty Burman

Dale Buxton
 

Most of the details on this loco are machined and not castings like a Westside version would have. Starting with the pilot. This model has a built up pilot beam and cage and the Westside has a one piece casting. This models sand and steam domes are under height like the PFM models were. The sand lines on this model are just brass wires going into the sand dome. The Westside sand lines connect to the sand dome through cored brass turnings. These are just a few of the tells that this is a PFM K-37.

Dale Buxton

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 8:30 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Dale,
I am curious what tells you it is a PFM vs a WMC?

Brian (novice collector)

On Fri, May 24, 2019, 10:14 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
It gets worse. The loco is actually a PFM K-37 from the early 60's and the tender  is a a Westside  K-27's from a modern slide or piston valve model from the late 70's. All in a Westside K-37 box. On average, the asking price is about $400 over what the model is worth to a knowledgeable buyer. If it in fact had all the correct pieces for a PFM K-37. This has to be an estate model that got all the components switched around when it was last sold. We are seeing more and more of that these days. Modelers passing away and widow's not knowing thing one about their late husband's collection. In come the estate reapers that know just about as much as the widow. This seller has some of the most over priced second hand models I've seen this year. I wish him luck.

Dale Buxton

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 6:20 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
buyer beware!


-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 24, 2019 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

For your final exam check Ebay for 'k37 hon3'. Is one really a k36 with a k27 tender?

Dusty Burman

Dusty
 

My mistake on the engine. After further review the fabricated injector, open frame motor and unique rear frame makes it an early PFM K37. Some consider it 'rare'. Not $650 rare in my mind.

Wasn't this one of the first Hon3 rod engines imported from Japan.

Dusty Burman

tonyk537
 

Can't say I can agree with the "amazing"  weathering on some of the other offerings.  

Dale Buxton
 

I think that is correct

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 20:48 Dusty <dustburm@q.com> wrote:
My mistake on the engine. After further review the fabricated injector, open frame motor and unique rear frame makes it an early PFM K37. Some consider it 'rare'. Not $650 rare in my mind.

Wasn't this one of the first Hon3 rod engines imported from Japan.

Dusty Burman