New Kadee HOn3 Trucks


Bill Nelson
 

Thanks, with Blackstone trucks playing hard to get I may have to try these. from my experience with HO stuff, I despise KD wheels, but I have projects that need trucks.


Bill Nelson

Clarksville TN.


John Stutz
 

Bill

There are several options for HOn3 trucks beyond Blackstone and Kadee.

Both PSC and Rio Grand Models produce a far wider choice of prototypes than either Blackstone or Kadee. Both offer the 3'7" archbar that was unique to the D&RG, PSC in several versions, and are your goto sources for non-D&RGW trucks. Many PSC trucks are available in both brass and Delren, all with their own metal wheels. RGM's trucks are cast in a pewter alloy and provided with NWSL Wheels. Check out their web sites.

David Hoffman offers several Eastern NG prototype freight and passenger trucks, cast in brass and provided with NWSL wheels. He is not accessible online, but advertises in the NG&SLG. Trout Creek Models may still be offering the very nice brass HOn3 trucks, mostly Colorado prototypes, from the old Tomalco line.

I consider that most of the new Kadee trucks are just downsized versions of their SG sideframes, with narrowed bolsters. But if that is not a problem, they do roll well and the self centering design makes it easier to put cars on the track.

John Stutz

On 06/22/2018 12:19 PM, Bill Nelson wrote:
Thanks, with Blackstone trucks playing hard to get I may have to try these. from my experience with HO stuff, I despise KD wheels, but I have projects that need trucks.
Bill Nelson


duncan
 

Bill and John,

    A friend in the club, who super details HOn3 rolling stock and offered a clinic on that here in Denver last year, says he really likes the new Kadee trucks because they are the first to enable him to get the cars to obtain that really hunkered down look, common on so many narrow gauge cars.  He says they are his truck of choice now.  Another guy in the club is having early DSP&P/C&S trucks 3-D printed.  He has the Type A trucks and is working on the Type B and C trucks.  He uses the Kadee wheels.  I have done some testing for him and find they roll as well as, if not better than, Blackstones.  Very smooth and free rolling and better than Grandt Line, PSC, MDC, MT, Rio Grande, or any others we've been able to test.  Just a bit more info to consider.

                                                    Duncan Harvey


John Stutz
 

Duncan

Thanks for the information. If your other guy at the club is using Shapeways or a similar service to produce his trucks, please encourage him to make these trucks available generally, and to announce it on this list. We are not all D&RGW modelers, and such products are very welcome. And I would personally like to know what material he is using to get the combination of detail and toughness required of HOn3 trucks.

I agree with you on the rolling quality of Kadee wheelsets, which I ascribe to the use of semi-needle pointed Delrin axles. I do not know why Bill Nelson despises KD wheelsets, since I have never experienced any trouble with them. However I have seen MicroTrains wheelsets, also cast in zinc alloy, which developed a powdery surface suggesting lead contamination of the alloy and its eventual disintegration.

I am surprised that your first mentioned friend would have been unable to "... obtain that really hunkered down look, ..." with other makes of truck. Doing so is just a matter of adjusting the car bolster depth to the truck center plate, so the the body rides at the desired height, then adjusting the coupler mounting surface to get the standard coupler height above rail. This is quite straightforward, if done early in the construction process, preferably as soon as the basic body is completed.

John Stutz

On 06/22/2018 03:07 PM, duncan wrote:
Bill and John,
    A friend in the club, who super details HOn3 rolling stock and offered a clinic on that here in Denver last year, says he really likes the new Kadee trucks because they are the first to enable him to get the cars to obtain that really hunkered down look, common on so many narrow gauge cars.  He says they are his truck of choice now.  Another guy in the club is having early DSP&P/C&S trucks 3-D printed.  He has the Type A trucks and is working on the Type B and C trucks.  He uses the Kadee wheels.  I have done some testing for him and find they roll as well as, if not better than, Blackstones.  Very smooth and free rolling and better than Grandt Line, PSC, MDC, MT, Rio Grande, or any others we've been able to test.  Just a bit more info to consider.
                                                    Duncan Harvey


Mike Conder
 

A company called Bitter Creek also has a nice line of white metal trucks.

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018, 2:28 PM John Stutz <john.c.stutz@...> wrote:
Bill

There are several options for HOn3 trucks beyond Blackstone and Kadee.

Both PSC and Rio Grand Models produce a far wider choice of prototypes than
either Blackstone or Kadee.  Both offer the 3'7" archbar that was unique to the
D&RG, PSC in several versions, and are your goto sources for non-D&RGW trucks.
Many PSC trucks are available in both brass and Delren, all with their own metal
wheels.  RGM's trucks are cast in a pewter alloy and provided with NWSL Wheels.
Check out their web sites.

David Hoffman offers several Eastern NG prototype freight and passenger trucks,
cast in brass and provided with NWSL wheels.  He is not accessible online, but
advertises in the NG&SLG.  Trout Creek Models may still be offering the very
nice brass HOn3 trucks, mostly Colorado prototypes, from the old Tomalco line.

I consider that most of the new Kadee trucks are just downsized versions of
their SG sideframes, with narrowed bolsters. But if that is not a problem, they
do roll well and the self centering design makes it easier to put cars on the
track.

John Stutz

On 06/22/2018 12:19 PM, Bill Nelson wrote:
> Thanks,  with  Blackstone  trucks  playing  hard  to  get  I  may  have  to  try  these.   from  my  experience  with  HO  stuff,  I  despise  KD  wheels,  but  I  have  projects  that  need  trucks.
>
>
> Bill  Nelson




kevin b
 

I recently ordered some trucks from Bitter Creek.
I was quite happy with them.
they also offer some detail bits and so on.
in my opinion, his prices are pretty good too.
AND, he's a nice guy to deal with.
Kevin.


 

A company called Bitter Creek also has a nice line of white metal trucks.


duncan
 

And Bitter Creek is coming out with HOn3 cars.  The first, a Colorado Central Powder Car, should be coming soon - within the month, or so.  Does he have narrow gauge trucks out now?  He didn't back in May at the Cheyenne Depot Days show.  I've encouraged him to concentrate on his HOn3 cars as he has several in the works, and to think about getting a booth at the NNGC this year and see how they go.  He was considering it, but doesn't have much time to develop the cars and build an inventory.  One of the guys in the club has built some of his standard gauge cars and says they are a dream to build.  Just FYI.

                Duncan


Mike Conder
 

They've had the HOn3 tricks for quite a while, didn't have any with then at the Cheyenne show last month, I checked because I wanted to see them.

Mike Conder

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 8:36 AM duncan <train3guy@...> wrote:
And Bitter Creek is coming out with HOn3 cars.  The first, a Colorado
Central Powder Car, should be coming soon - within the month, or so. 
Does he have narrow gauge trucks out now?  He didn't back in May at the
Cheyenne Depot Days show.  I've encouraged him to concentrate on his
HOn3 cars as he has several in the works, and to think about getting a
booth at the NNGC this year and see how they go.  He was considering it,
but doesn't have much time to develop the cars and build an inventory. 
One of the guys in the club has built some of his standard gauge cars
and says they are a dream to build.  Just FYI.

                 Duncan





duncan
 

Hi, John,

    The guy in the club doing the trucks has been using Shapeways.  He hes become increasingly dissatisfied with them.  He reports it is getting very hard to work with them.  They say they can't do things he has already had them do.  They can't do the resolution he is requesting, when they have done other parts to that resolution and in the same material.  They won't orient the parts as he specifies. Apparently the orientation has an affect of the quality of resolution and other points.  Some of the early trucks he had printed a year, or so, ago have now warped and the wheels sometimes fall out.  He emails them and they don['t respond.  He says the company seem to be more interested in the jewelry and toy aspects than the fine quality he is requesting and they just don't seem to want to be bothered.  He says it has a lot to do with the person (engineer?) you come in contact with.  But, he can't choose who he gets and finds they are not all of equal ability, or disposition, so it becomes a bit of a crap shoot.

    As a result of all this and more, he is reluctant to offer the trucks to others.  They are not up to his standards.  He is looking elsewhere and finding some better success there.  But he wants to take the time to get things tested well.

    He has tried several different materials.  They are trade offs.  The ones with the best detail tend to be fragile.  How fragile I am not sure.  The ones more durable tend not to have the degree of detail we'd like.  He just showed us some new trucks done in a nylon material.  They are rugged and a one piece casting (print).  But, they lack the spring detail and the journal box cover detail that were present and more evident in the higher detail, but more fragile material.

    As I remember it, he had found the Kadee wheels are designed differently from all others.  It was something about a fine ridge in the axle, just at the edge of the point, so the point of the axle doesn't actually contact the inside of the journal.  The wheel rides on this ridge.  Sorry, I can't do better at the explanation, I am trying to remember what it was he had said and he is the one who figured this out when he was designing these trucks.

    I think the deal with the low riding cars is not that he couldn't do it, it was more that these trucks were designed in such a way that it was easier to achieve.  I have not mounted any of these new trucks yet, so don't have first hand experience with them.

    Hope this clarification is of some use!

                    Duncan Harvey


NarrowMinded1
 


Nathan Kline
Nate's Light Iron Hobbies


John Stutz
 

Duncan

I suggest that your friend investigate alternatives to Shapeways. There are a number of custom manufacturers who do similar custom production work. A major difference from Shapeways is that they do not offer to set up a shop for you that essentially handles all business aspects. A second is that they may offer a wider variety of 3D Printing materials, with perhaps finer definition, and possibly other potentially more appropriate production services. A drawback is potentially larger costs than Shapeways, for small orders.

One such company is Fathom <https://studiofathom.com/rapid-prototyping/>, offering "3D Printing, CNC Machining, Urethane Casting, Tooling, Injection Molding" services. I have not done any business with them, so cannot speak to their performance or support, but I somehow got on their email list a few years ago, and have been quite impressed with what they claim to do. In particular, they have an automated online quote service for 3D printing, "for users with 3D CAD files ready to upload, quote, and order", which will at lest provide a good idea of their prices. A problem might be choosing the most appropriate additive manufacturing technology and material, as they offer several. Another might be that their ideas, and ours, regarding what constitutes fine detail may be quite different.

John Stutz

On 06/23/2018 11:56 AM, duncan wrote:
Hi, John,
    The guy in the club doing the trucks has been using Shapeways.  He hes become increasingly dissatisfied with them.  He reports it is getting very hard to work with them.  They say they can't do things he has already had them do. They can't do the resolution he is requesting, when they have done other parts to that resolution and in the same material.  They won't orient the parts as he specifies. Apparently the orientation has an affect of the quality of resolution and other points.  Some of the early trucks he had printed a year, or so, ago have now warped and the wheels sometimes fall out.  He emails them and they don['t respond.  He says the company seem to be more interested in the jewelry and toy aspects than the fine quality he is requesting and they just don't seem to want to be bothered.  He says it has a lot to do with the person (engineer?) you come in contact with.  But, he can't choose who he gets and finds they are not all of equal ability, or disposition, so it becomes a bit of a crap shoot.
.....


Mike Conder
 

Thanks John, our friend is looking into other 3D printing sources including (I think) Fathom.  And yes, they are more expensive than Shapeways.

Mike Conder 

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 7:28 PM John Stutz <john.c.stutz@...> wrote:

Duncan

I suggest that your friend investigate alternatives to Shapeways.  There are a
number of custom manufacturers who do similar custom production work. A major
difference from Shapeways is that they do not offer to set up a shop for you
that essentially handles all business aspects.  A second is that they may offer
a wider variety of 3D Printing materials, with perhaps finer definition, and
possibly other potentially more appropriate production services.  A drawback is
potentially larger costs than Shapeways, for small orders.

One such company is Fathom <https://studiofathom.com/rapid-prototyping/>,
offering "3D Printing, CNC Machining, Urethane Casting, Tooling, Injection
Molding" services.  I have not done any business with them, so cannot speak to
their performance or support, but I somehow got on their email list a few years
ago, and have been quite impressed with what they claim to do.  In particular,
they have an automated online quote service for 3D printing, "for users with 3D
CAD files ready to upload, quote, and order", which will at lest provide a good
idea of their prices.  A problem might be choosing the most appropriate additive
manufacturing technology and material, as they offer several.  Another might be
that their ideas, and ours, regarding what constitutes fine detail may be quite
different.

John Stutz

On 06/23/2018 11:56 AM, duncan wrote:
> Hi, John,
>
>      The guy in the club doing the trucks has been using Shapeways.  He hes
> become increasingly dissatisfied with them.  He reports it is getting very hard
> to work with them.  They say they can't do things he has already had them do. 
> They can't do the resolution he is requesting, when they have done other parts
> to that resolution and in the same material.  They won't orient the parts as he
> specifies. Apparently the orientation has an affect of the quality of resolution
> and other points.  Some of the early trucks he had printed a year, or so, ago
> have now warped and the wheels sometimes fall out.  He emails them and they
> don['t respond.  He says the company seem to be more interested in the jewelry
> and toy aspects than the fine quality he is requesting and they just don't seem
> to want to be bothered.  He says it has a lot to do with the person (engineer?)
> you come in contact with.  But, he can't choose who he gets and finds they are
> not all of equal ability, or disposition, so it becomes a bit of a crap shoot.
> .....