Key crankpin size


jczul36
 

Group, I was wondering if anybody knows what size the crank pin screws are on the C class engines Key did.  



John Stutz
 

jczul

If recent, they are probably metric, so try some of the standard metric sizes. Preferably in brass, and tried very gently. Better yet: try matching diameter and pitch against any remaining crank pin screws.

I believe many of the older Japanese built engines used 1/16" Whitworth, which per the table on Wikipedia's British Standard Whitworth(BSW) page is 60 tpi or 1.588mm diameter x 0.432mm pitch. Unfortunately there is nothing in the US Unified Thread Standard that matches: it is a shade larger than a #0 with a coarser thread than the UNC #1-64 or UNF #2-64. The ISO metric standard is similar, with a 1.6mm diameter standard thread, but at much finer pitch of .35mm.

However NWSL has (had?) 1/16 BSW taps and dies, now quite expensive, and reported to be easily broken. If you want to make your own crank pin, I would consider brass or NS for ease of cutting. If you require steel, get the free machining Ledloy leaded steel alloy. On second thought: best bet might be to use a stainless steel sleeve cut from hypodermic tubing for the crank pin's bearing surface, with a plain brass screw through the tube. But this will require very thin wall tubing.

John Stutz

On 06/14/2018 05:15 PM, jczul36 via Groups.Io wrote:
Group, I was wondering if anybody knows what size the crank pin screws are on the C class engines Key did.


Robert Veefkind
 

good morning JC     the Key models I have take the 1.4 mm screws    I have a package here from trackside specialties. They are slotted and shouldered and are similar sizes as the old Kemtron screws. Maybe they are still in business. PSC at one time had 1.4 mm side rod screws but they are moving and may not be reopen yet.   Bob Veefkind      " the screw loser"

In a message dated 6/14/2018 8:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, zul36@... writes:

Group, I was wondering if anybody knows what size the crank pin screws are on the C class engines Key did.  



jczul36
 

Thank you Bob!  


On Jun 15, 2018, at 4:37 AM, Robert Veefkind via Groups.Io <snookdust@...> wrote:

good morning JC     the Key models I have take the 1.4 mm screws    I have a package here from trackside specialties. They are slotted and shouldered and are similar sizes as the old Kemtron screws. Maybe they are still in business. PSC at one time had 1.4 mm side rod screws but they are moving and may not be reopen yet.   Bob Veefkind      " the screw loser"

In a message dated 6/14/2018 8:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, zul36@... writes:

Group, I was wondering if anybody knows what size the crank pin screws are on the C class engines Key did.  



jczul36
 

Thanks for the input John,
jc

On Jun 14, 2018, at 7:53 PM, John Stutz <john.c.stutz@...> wrote:

jczul

If recent, they are probably metric, so try some of the standard metric sizes. Preferably in brass, and tried very gently.  Better yet: try matching diameter and pitch against any remaining crank pin screws.

I believe many of the older Japanese built engines used 1/16" Whitworth, which per the table on Wikipedia's British Standard Whitworth(BSW) page is 60 tpi or 1.588mm diameter x 0.432mm pitch.  Unfortunately there is nothing in the US Unified Thread Standard that matches: it is a shade larger than a #0 with a coarser thread than the UNC #1-64 or UNF #2-64.  The ISO metric standard is similar, with a 1.6mm diameter standard thread, but at much finer pitch of .35mm.

However NWSL has (had?) 1/16 BSW taps and dies, now quite expensive, and reported to be easily broken.  If you want to make your own crank pin, I would consider brass or NS for ease of cutting.  If you require steel, get the free machining Ledloy leaded steel alloy.  On second thought: best bet might be to use a stainless steel sleeve cut from hypodermic tubing for the crank pin's bearing surface, with a plain brass screw through the tube.  But this will require very thin wall tubing.

John Stutz

On 06/14/2018 05:15 PM, jczul36 via Groups.Io wrote:
Group, I was wondering if anybody knows what size the crank pin screws are on the C class engines Key did.





 

I have a good stock of 5/64 brass hex bought some years ago when still available from K&S.  Anyone here needs some, just send me your address and I'll mail you a piece in a first class envelope. No cost. ........ Ed Weldon


 

One other thought on my offer of 5/64 hex brass.  Tell me how you plan to machine it whether its by using a small lathe, dremel tool and a file or whatever else. I hope to get some interesting survey data out of this or we can simply share whatever tricks we come up with.
Ed W.


jczul36
 

Ed, Well last night, I finally decided I was not ordering any new screws…..This project had been delayed too long.  I drilled all the driver crankpin holes to fit a Tube (Shoulder), the size of the side rod's hole.  I soldered all the shoulders in place, and tapped the shoulder’s (tube)hole with a 00-90 tap to accept 00-90 hex head screws.  It worked like a charm, and have moved forward on to the construction of this early C-17.  This damn model (Key RGS #42) never ran correctly, but with a re-machined frame, new drivers, and gearbox, it should run smoothly.  
jc

On Jun 15, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Ed Weldon <23.weldon@...> wrote:

One other thought on my offer of 5/64 hex brass.  Tell me how you plan to machine it whether its by using a small lathe, dremel tool and a file or whatever else. I hope to get some interesting survey data out of this or we can simply share whatever tricks we come up with.
Ed W.


ckodani@...
 

JC, your project sounds amazing!!! Please keep us updated, ESPECIALLY when you hit a snag like this—I love the solution you found!!! Of course we’ll all need to see the video when you start your steam trials! Keep up the great work! Chris Kodani 


jczul36
 

Thanks!
jc

_._,_._,_


 

John - What hand tap drill size, lubricant and /or other tricks would you or anyone else recommend in tapping cast or wrought 360 brass for the 1/16BSW thread considering crankpin applications?  I realize that this is a really "down in the weeds" discussion subject, but still worth pursuing for a few of us.
Ed Weldon


Robert Veefkind
 

Ed--NWSL has all that stuff including the right size drills taps and the die. The die alone was $35-40 some time ago. To make accurate screws you need the right size collet in a lathe and then how do you make the hex heads for the screws? More work.     Bob Veefkind

In a message dated 7/8/2018 12:01:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, 23.weldon@... writes:

  I realize that this is a really "down in the weeds" discussion subject, but still worth pursuing for a few of us.


jczul36
 

Bob, After I dropped in a new set of drivers on my C-17, I found myself looking for the correct crank pin with the correct shoulder to my side rods. I really didn’t want to make my own crank pins, so I finally decided to just use a brass tube as the shoulder as the easiest solution.
I drilled all the driver’s crank pin holes to the size of the tube, and solder tubes in the crank pin holes. I then cut each tube to the appropriate height, and tapped all of them with a 00-90 tap. I machined the hex head of the 00-90 bolt to a reasonable size to allow for clearance between the crosshead and side rod.
It was a reasonably simple solution, and all the parts are available at your local hobby store.


kevin b
 

              
 and all the parts are available at your local hobby store.

LOL...….
that's SO funny!!!!!!!
               
there hasn't been anything approaching a local hobby store around here since I was a teenager.
I am now 54.

for those of you fortunate enough to have a decent hobby shop in your area, you're lucky.

folks, if you want to KEEP a local hobby store near you, PLEASE support them.

have a happy day.
Kevin.


jczul36
 

Negative comments like yours make me laugh...I’m 57, and your local hobby store is presently at your finger tips... 
Brick and Mortar stores are almost a thing of the past and those still open are struggling . To many RTR modelers, and it’s really hard to find anyone who wants to pay full mark up now a days.  Also not only is it the on line hobby stores as ebay, but even manufacture like Broadway limited and scaletrains sell direct..., or reduce prices  where stores get stuck with inventory, and kill their profits.  

jc


On Jul 8, 2018, at 3:28 PM, kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:

              
 and all the parts are available at your local hobby store.

LOL...….
that's SO funny!!!!!!!
               
there hasn't been anything approaching a local hobby store around here since I was a teenager.
I am now 54.

for those of you fortunate enough to have a decent hobby shop in your area, you're lucky.

folks, if you want to KEEP a local hobby store near you, PLEASE support them.

have a happy day.
Kevin.


kevin b
 

I in no way attempted to make a negative comment.

i'll admit I may have been a bit cheeky.
i'll apologize for that.


I AM in favor of local hobby shops.
where you can walk in, talk to the person selling the item, make friends, share stories get advice and so on.

I do agree with you, my internet connection IS my supply line, otherwise I couldn't get anything.
even though I use the internet for my needs, I STILL am in favor of local shops and DO encourage people to shop there.

anytime I travel, if i'm in an area that has a hobby shop, I stop in and see if there's anything I need they have.
in other words, I try my best to support brick and mortar shops wherever they are.
and yes, I know they're dying off, and it's almost a loosing battle and so on.

at any rate, where each person gets their supplies is up to them, I have no local option, or i'd go there.
I say that, because I remember what it was to have a local hobby shop, and I said before IF you want to keep a local shop, support them.
cause when they're gone, that's it. and you don't know what you're missing till you don't have it any more.

have a happy day.
Kevin.



On ‎Sunday‎, ‎July‎ ‎08‎, ‎2018‎ ‎05‎:‎59‎:‎52‎ ‎PM, jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36@...> wrote:


Negative comments like yours make me laugh...I’m 57, and your local hobby store is presently at your finger tips... 
Brick and Mortar stores are almost a thing of the past and those still open are struggling . To many RTR modelers, and it’s really hard to find anyone who wants to pay full mark up now a days.  Also not only is it the on line hobby stores as ebay, but even manufacture like Broadway limited and scaletrains sell direct..., or reduce prices  where stores get stuck with inventory, and kill their profits.  

jc


On Jul 8, 2018, at 3:28 PM, kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:

              
 and all the parts are available at your local hobby store.

LOL...….
that's SO funny!!!!!!!
               
there hasn't been anything approaching a local hobby store around here since I was a teenager.
I am now 54.

for those of you fortunate enough to have a decent hobby shop in your area, you're lucky.

folks, if you want to KEEP a local hobby store near you, PLEASE support them.

have a happy day.
Kevin.


jczul36
 

It’s not that I don’t agree with you, but we can’t look back.  Your comment is subjective and off topic.  We move forward and keep modeling. 

I wish someone had given me the idea of resolving my crank pin issue years ago. This model sat in this box for over twenty years, because I could not find the correct crank pin screw.  It wasn’t until recently that I was struck with this idea.  
jc


On Jul 8, 2018, at 4:31 PM, kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:

I in no way attempted to make a negative comment.

i'll admit I may have been a bit cheeky.
i'll apologize for that.


I AM in favor of local hobby shops.
where you can walk in, talk to the person selling the item, make friends, share stories get advice and so on.

I do agree with you, my internet connection IS my supply line, otherwise I couldn't get anything.
even though I use the internet for my needs, I STILL am in favor of local shops and DO encourage people to shop there.

anytime I travel, if i'm in an area that has a hobby shop, I stop in and see if there's anything I need they have.
in other words, I try my best to support brick and mortar shops wherever they are.
and yes, I know they're dying off, and it's almost a loosing battle and so on.

at any rate, where each person gets their supplies is up to them, I have no local option, or i'd go there.
I say that, because I remember what it was to have a local hobby shop, and I said before IF you want to keep a local shop, support them.
cause when they're gone, that's it. and you don't know what you're missing till you don't have it any more.

have a happy day.
Kevin.



On ‎Sunday‎, ‎July‎ ‎08‎, ‎2018‎ ‎05‎:‎59‎:‎52‎ ‎PM, jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36@...> wrote:


Negative comments like yours make me laugh...I’m 57, and your local hobby store is presently at your finger tips... 
Brick and Mortar stores are almost a thing of the past and those still open are struggling . To many RTR modelers, and it’s really hard to find anyone who wants to pay full mark up now a days.  Also not only is it the on line hobby stores as ebay, but even manufacture like Broadway limited and scaletrains sell direct..., or reduce prices  where stores get stuck with inventory, and kill their profits.  

jc


On Jul 8, 2018, at 3:28 PM, kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:

              
 and all the parts are available at your local hobby store.

LOL...….
that's SO funny!!!!!!!
               
there hasn't been anything approaching a local hobby store around here since I was a teenager.
I am now 54.

for those of you fortunate enough to have a decent hobby shop in your area, you're lucky.

folks, if you want to KEEP a local hobby store near you, PLEASE support them.

have a happy day.
Kevin.


Climax@...
 

Now boys, behave!  I am 71 and have owned a hobby shop and saw the writing on the wall, and closed it when I could.  As far as parts go, the internet expanded the world of parts, kits, and anything else you can think of, so it's not evil.  Just a sign of the times.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "jczul36 via Groups.Io"
Sent: Jul 8, 2018 7:41 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Key crankpin size

It’s not that I don’t agree with you, but we can’t look back.  Your comment is subjective and off topic.  We move forward and keep modeling. 

I wish someone had given me the idea of resolving my crank pin issue years ago. This model sat in this box for over twenty years, because I could not find the correct crank pin screw.  It wasn’t until recently that I was struck with this idea.  
jc


On Jul 8, 2018, at 4:31 PM, kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:

I in no way attempted to make a negative comment.

i'll admit I may have been a bit cheeky.
i'll apologize for that.


I AM in favor of local hobby shops.
where you can walk in, talk to the person selling the item, make friends, share stories get advice and so on.

I do agree with you, my internet connection IS my supply line, otherwise I couldn't get anything.
even though I use the internet for my needs, I STILL am in favor of local shops and DO encourage people to shop there.

anytime I travel, if i'm in an area that has a hobby shop, I stop in and see if there's anything I need they have.
in other words, I try my best to support brick and mortar shops wherever they are.
and yes, I know they're dying off, and it's almost a loosing battle and so on.

at any rate, where each person gets their supplies is up to them, I have no local option, or i'd go there.
I say that, because I remember what it was to have a local hobby shop, and I said before IF you want to keep a local shop, support them.
cause when they're gone, that's it. and you don't know what you're missing till you don't have it any more.

have a happy day.
Kevin.



On ‎Sunday‎, ‎July‎ ‎08‎, ‎2018‎ ‎05‎:‎59‎:‎52‎ ‎PM, jczul36 via Groups.Io <zul36@...> wrote:


Negative comments like yours make me laugh...I’m 57, and your local hobby store is presently at your finger tips... 
Brick and Mortar stores are almost a thing of the past and those still open are struggling . To many RTR modelers, and it’s really hard to find anyone who wants to pay full mark up now a days.  Also not only is it the on line hobby stores as ebay, but even manufacture like Broadway limited and scaletrains sell direct..., or reduce prices  where stores get stuck with inventory, and kill their profits.  

jc


On Jul 8, 2018, at 3:28 PM, kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:

              
 and all the parts are available at your local hobby store.

LOL...….
that's SO funny!!!!!!!
               
there hasn't been anything approaching a local hobby store around here since I was a teenager.
I am now 54.

for those of you fortunate enough to have a decent hobby shop in your area, you're lucky.

folks, if you want to KEEP a local hobby store near you, PLEASE support them.

have a happy day.
Kevin.