Stock car occasional progress


Dusty
 

I'm posting this progress report  to encourage people to either say 'I can do that and I will' or 'There's a better way to build cars and here's how I do it'.

Weight centering visual aid fixture for my 'declining years' bad spacial perception and possible OCD?

Dusty Burman


Jeff Reynolds
 

Dusty B.,
Looks good. Be sure to paint the weights flat black before assy. The weighting of cars was, a weighty subject (is that a pun?) back when I first started. The key here is how steep a grade do you want to afford; how many cars are you likely to have in a given train on that grade; and which trucks are you using? I've been slowly going to Blackstone trucks on arch bar cars as they roll easier than Grandt Line's. I finally settled on 1.3 oz. of extra weight for 30 foot cars after much trial and error, so all plastic 30 foot cars have this protocol. 
This is way lighter than the NMRA standard from 50 years ago. However, I can pull a prototype lenght train up my steepest grade of 3% with heavily cerobent prototype locos. Here are pix of my D&RGW stocks:
and the RGS red fleet:

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 9:31 AM, <dustburm@q.com> wrote:
I'm posting this progress report  to encourage people to either say 'I can do that and I will' or 'There's a better way to build cars and here's how I do it'.

Weight centering visual aid fixture for my 'declining years' bad spacial perception and possible OCD?

Dusty Burman



lloyd lehrer
 

JEFF, your cars are really crummy looking.  Good job.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Reynolds <jefe4x4@...> wrote:
Dusty B.,
Looks good. Be sure to paint the weights flat black before assy. The weighting of cars was, a weighty subject (is that a pun?) back when I first started. The key here is how steep a grade do you want to afford; how many cars are you likely to have in a given train on that grade; and which trucks are you using? I've been slowly going to Blackstone trucks on arch bar cars as they roll easier than Grandt Line's. I finally settled on 1.3 oz. of extra weight for 30 foot cars after much trial and error, so all plastic 30 foot cars have this protocol. 
This is way lighter than the NMRA standard from 50 years ago. However, I can pull a prototype lenght train up my steepest grade of 3% with heavily cerobent prototype locos. Here are pix of my D&RGW stocks:
and the RGS red fleet:

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 9:31 AM, <dustburm@q.com> wrote:
I'm posting this progress report  to encourage people to either say 'I can do that and I will' or 'There's a better way to build cars and here's how I do it'.

Weight centering visual aid fixture for my 'declining years' bad spacial perception and possible OCD?

Dusty Burman




--
lloyd lehrer


Mark Lewis
 

Jeff:

Your fleet of D&RGW and RGS stock cars are spectacular!

Thanks for sharing all your photos of them.

Mark Lewis
Stony Point, NC

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Jeff Reynolds <jefe4x4@...> wrote:
Dusty B.,
Looks good. Be sure to paint the weights flat black before assy. The weighting of cars was, a weighty subject (is that a pun?) back when I first started. The key here is how steep a grade do you want to afford; how many cars are you likely to have in a given train on that grade; and which trucks are you using? I've been slowly going to Blackstone trucks on arch bar cars as they roll easier than Grandt Line's. I finally settled on 1.3 oz. of extra weight for 30 foot cars after much trial and error, so all plastic 30 foot cars have this protocol. 
This is way lighter than the NMRA standard from 50 years ago. However, I can pull a prototype lenght train up my steepest grade of 3% with heavily cerobent prototype locos. Here are pix of my D&RGW stocks:
and the RGS red fleet:

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 9:31 AM, <dustburm@q.com> wrote:
I'm posting this progress report  to encourage people to either say 'I can do that and I will' or 'There's a better way to build cars and here's how I do it'.

Weight centering visual aid fixture for my 'declining years' bad spacial perception and possible OCD?

Dusty Burman




Kent Hinton
 

Dusty,

You don't necessarily need to paint the lead black.  If you recast it in bovine, ovine or porcine shaped figures, you could also paint it in various shades of white, grey, brown and/or tan.

Kent Hinton


On Feb 26, 2018, at 11:04 AM, Jeff Reynolds <jefe4x4@...> wrote:

Dusty B.,
Looks good. Be sure to paint the weights flat black before assy.  <snip>_._,_._,_


Steve Hatch
 

  What about grey-green and low alligators to keep the center of mass lowwwwwooooooo.oo
-Trackman


Steve Hatch
 

  I lost my very good tweeezers about 2 years ago and I just noticed that Dusty has them on his bench..
Hmmmmmm!!!??
-Steve


Jeff Reynolds
 

Hinton, oooh, just what I wanted: manhandle a bunch of lead chunks into figures. Did not that lead (so to speak) to the the insanity of King Henry the VIII?
I use some heavy lead ingots to weight some road bed and switches down, but always keep my hands clean after than. Yuk!

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Kent Hinton via Groups.Io <keh_bier@...> wrote:
Dusty,

You don't necessarily need to paint the lead black.  If you recast it in bovine, ovine or porcine shaped figures, you could also paint it in various shades of white, grey, brown and/or tan.

Kent Hinton


On Feb 26, 2018, at 11:04 AM, Jeff Reynolds <jefe4x4@...> wrote:

Dusty B.,
Looks good. Be sure to paint the weights flat black before assy.  <snip>



ckodani@...
 

I’ve always wondered about the slats on narrow gauge stock cars. On the lower half of the car, they’re all inside the bracing (this makes sense), but on the upper half, the slats are on the outside. Why?

Clueless about slats,
Chris Kodani 


Darryl Huffman
 

My guess is it makes putting the heralds and signage on the cars easier.

Probably wrong, of course.

On Thursday, July 5, 2018, 8:49 PM, ckodani via Groups.Io <ckodani@...> wrote:

I’ve always wondered about the slats on narrow gauge stock cars. On the lower half of the car, they’re all inside the bracing (this makes sense), but on the upper half, the slats are on the outside. Why?

Clueless about slats,
Chris Kodani 


Mick Moignard
 

They're on the inside lower down to prevent the animals getting caught in the uprights and so on. Same reason that slats on stockyard fending are on the outside of the posts.  On sheep cars, there are also inside slats above the upper deck.  

The upper slats are outside probably because they're easier to maintain and carry lettering.

Mick
______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
IBM Notes and Domino: still has what it takes as an App Dev and Collaboration platform.


Mark Kasprowicz
 
Edited

They are mounted inside lower down to prevent animals from kicking them off the uprights, they are only nailed on. Double deck cars had one inside board from the floor up about 12" to prevent sheep from kicking their way to freedom. Same problem existed with doors - early ones were always getting damaged by a couple of head of cattle backing into them. In the end they were significantly reinforced.

As for the lettering that's not conclusive either because it appeared on inside boards as well as the outer upper ones. I can understand why Vic Stone got involved in writing a book on this. BTW some of the variation between the board layout is down to the workmen not being given plans until they were about a third of the way through the rebuilds, So they just nailed the boards on as best they thought!

Mark K


asandrini
 

Having grown up on a dairy farm, with over 400 head of milk cows, I can attest that stock pens had the boards on the inside to prevent the boards from being shoved off.

The boards only need to leaned against, as my dad would attest. We were slowly driving his new truck through the pasture, when a steer bumped the driver door and caved it in against the inner wall.  More than once  , I had a steer lick the antenna off of a truck's hood like a weed.

Slats go to the inside.  In the case of pens built side by side, both sides of the uprights has 2x12 boards.  Loading chuttes had the boards to the inside.

Big Al from Cal



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...>
Date: 7/6/18 4:55 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Stock car occasional progress

They are mounted inside lower down to prevent animals from kicking them off the uprights, they are only nailed on. Double deck cars had one inside board from the floor up about 12" to prevent sheep from kicking their way to freedom. Same problem existed with doors - early ones were always getting damaged by a couple of head of cattle backing into them. In the end they were significantly reinforced.

As for the lettering that's not conclusive either because it appeared on inside boards as well as the outer upper ones. I can understand why Vic Stone got involved in writing a book on this. BTW some of the variation between the board layout is down to the workmen not being given plans until they were about half way through the rebuilds, So they just nailed the boards on as best they thought!

Mark K


Bill Lugg
 

I can also speak from personal experience.  We've kept horses on our
property for near on to twenty years now.  when building fences or pens,
the boards, the wire, the panels - whatever we're using to keep them in
goes on the animal side of the posts.  In the case of horses, they
always find the most choice grass on the other side of the fence so the
t-posts are typically laid over at a 10-15 degree angle.  In fact, this
might be something to consider for those modeling fenced pastures - your
fences probably shouldn't all be nice and vertical.

Bill Lugg

On 07/06/2018 02:34 PM, asandrini wrote:
Having grown up on a dairy farm, with over 400 head of milk cows, I
can attest that stock pens had the boards on the inside to prevent the
boards from being shoved off.

The boards only need to leaned against, as my dad would attest. We
were slowly driving his new truck through the pasture, when a steer
bumped the driver door and caved it in against the inner wall.  More
than once  , I had a steer lick the antenna off of a truck's hood like
a weed.

Slats go to the inside.  In the case of pens built side by side, both
sides of the uprights has 2x12 boards.  Loading chuttes had the boards
to the inside.

Big Al from Cal



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@frontier.net>
Date: 7/6/18 4:55 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Stock car occasional progress

They are mounted inside lower down to prevent animals from kicking
them off the uprights, they are only nailed on. Double deck cars had
one inside board from the floor up about 12" to prevent sheep from
kicking their way to freedom. Same problem existed with doors - early
ones were always getting damaged by a couple of head of cattle backing
into them. In the end they were significantly reinforced.

As for the lettering that's not conclusive either because it appeared
on inside boards as well as the outer upper ones. I can understand why
Vic Stone got involved in writing a book on this. BTW some of the
variation between the board layout is down to the workmen not being
given plans until they were about half way through the rebuilds, So
they just nailed the boards on as best they thought!

Mark K


Mark Kasprowicz
 

We also kept horses and the same thing happened to the old iron fence that seperated the garden from the paddock. Every so often we'd have to take a ten foot plank, put it against the fence, tie rope to it and use the Jeep to pull it upright again one section at a time. Needed 4 wheel drive and even then it was a struggle sometimes. Should have been easier after a good rain storm when the ground was softer but then the Jeep slipped.
As the saying goes 'the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence'.

Mark K


ckodani@...
 

Hey HOn3 folks, please excuse the cross-posting, but I think I found a partial answer to the "slats-on-the-outside" issue. Here's what I posted on the HOn30 group.

"Speaking of stock cars, check this out. I've been wondering about the outside slats on the upper half of the D&RGW stock cars for a while now. EVERYBODY can understand why slats should be on the inside (animals push on the inside, so putting slats on the inside makes sense). Check this out http://www.drhs315.org/blog/drhs-railcars/stock-cars/stock-car-progress/ The folks of DRHS did a restoration on a couple of stock cars, and they did a marvelous job of documenting each step. Some of the pictures show something shocking--the inside slats go all the way from the bottom to the very top of the car, BUT the outside slats are only on the upper half. Put another way, the upper half of the stock cars are...DOUBLE SLATED!!! My guess: the outside slats were strictly meant to act as letter boards, and would never be touched by the livestock, as the inside slats took all the beating from the pigs and sheep.

I would love to go and take a look at every stock car that the D&RGW ever had, and look inside to see if the inside slats go all the way up, but unfortunately, I live too far away. Perhaps we could put the power of a larger group to work. If anybody lives close to a museum with one of these cars, let's put this mystery to rest--look inside and tell us what you see!!!"

--Chris Kodani


Jim Marlett
 

I don’t think they are double slatted. In a double deck stock car, boards are added to the inside of the upper deck along the bottom to keep feet and legs from slipping through, but they are otherwise not double slatted. My personal opinion is that it was simply easier to attach long boards to the outside of the car. The boards near the top don’t get the pressure from livestock that the lower boards do, so they don’t need to be inside. Sheep are short. Cattle are taller, but their bodies aren’t nearly as tall as a railroad car – even a narrow gauge car. Here is a shot of the inside of the double decker at Cimarron.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 8:57 AM, ckodani via Groups.Io <ckodani@...> wrote:

Hey HOn3 folks, please excuse the cross-posting, but I think I found a partial answer to the "slats-on-the-outside" issue. Here's what I posted on the HOn30 group.

"Speaking of stock cars, check this out. I've been wondering about the outside slats on the upper half of the D&RGW stock cars for a while now. EVERYBODY can understand why slats should be on the inside (animals push on the inside, so putting slats on the inside makes sense). Check this out http://www.drhs315.org/blog/drhs-railcars/stock-cars/stock-car-progress/ The folks of DRHS did a restoration on a couple of stock cars, and they did a marvelous job of documenting each step. Some of the pictures show something shocking--the inside slats go all the way from the bottom to the very top of the car, BUT the outside slats are only on the upper half. Put another way, the upper half of the stock cars are...DOUBLE SLATED!!! My guess: the outside slats were strictly meant to act as letter boards, and would never be touched by the livestock, as the inside slats took all the beating from the pigs and sheep.

I would love to go and take a look at every stock car that the D&RGW ever had, and look inside to see if the inside slats go all the way up, but unfortunately, I live too far away. Perhaps we could put the power of a larger group to work. If anybody lives close to a museum with one of these cars, let's put this mystery to rest--look inside and tell us what you see!!!"

--Chris Kodani


Mark Kasprowicz
 

They're not I'm afraid. And there's no real evidence to say that the outside boards were for lettering either. In fact the photo from our website shows the lettering on the internal boards not the outside ones. The dimensional data, usually on the bottom right of the car, is on inside boards and it's the most concentrated of all the lettering on a stock car. If lettering was a consideration then I'd expect the boards in this area to be double skinned as well. I've taken a glance at Vic Stone's 'Taking Stock' and there's is no explanation for the arrangement while Jim Martlett's photo shows the single internal kick board arrangement on a double deck or sheep car and nothing above that.

My thoughts are simply this - if you apply boards to both sides of a line of posts, the result is more rigid than if you you place them all on one side as you're creating a box section. Given that the lower boards had to be kick proof, to form the box the upper boards had to be on the outside. The D&RGW was also not in the habit of spending money where it wasn't needed.

Finally, I was the project leader for the final stages of both DRHS stock cars and they are not double slatted. But I'm back over there in a month and have a few things to tidy up on the cars and if there is still doubt I'll post photos though Jim's is conclusive.

Mark Kasprowicz
Oxon, England


ckodani@...
 

Jim, wow, that’s a great picture! Thanks so much for posting!!! It makes me very glad that I’m not in the stock car cleaning business! I can’t imagine having to crawl in there to tidy up. I guess first class is on the 2nd floor—those poor sheep/hogs on 1st must have a messy ride! Chris Kodani


ckodani@...
 

Mark, first and foremost, thank you so much for being a steward of history! Without folks like you, narrow gauge equipment would no longer exist. And thanks for sharing your insight—“kick board” is now part of my modeling vocabulary. Jim’s picture is indeed very good, but if you’ve got more or can get more that you can share, please do!!! Chris Kodani