Date   
Re: News on RGS 20

Mike Conder
 

I don't agree that a replacement boiler is always needed.  Modern welding can add a new section of a boiler and make it as good as new.  I know, because Ive had that done on a 30,000 gallon propane tank (read about 14' diameter x 40 or 50' long or thereabouts) rated for 250#  No problem!

Mike Conder

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 3:04 PM Doug Boudakian <dboudrrtrain@...> wrote:
Ken
Replace a little and get 3 years out of it. Then replace the boiler.  I agree for a long term solution a new boiler is best.  I do not believe that any D&S engine has had the boiler replaced.
Doug
> On May 24, 2019, at 1:53 PM, rick@... wrote:
>
> Way cool!
>
> Rick
>
>
>




Re: News on RGS 20

ap
 

On Sat, 25 May 2019 16:40:57 -0600, Mike Conder wrote:

I don't agree that a replacement boiler is always needed. Modern welding
can add a new section of a boiler and make it as good as new
that is excatly what was done RGS 20. the big dent in the boiler was cut out and a new patch was welded in.

ap


sent by andy peerand using recyled protons

... ... Ham on rye: Drunk radio operator.

Re: News on RGS 20

Mike Conder
 

Good.  With modern materials and welding, it'll privacy last longer than the original boiler.

Mike Conder

On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 9:05 PM ap <sp9@...> wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 16:40:57 -0600, Mike Conder wrote:

>I don't agree that a replacement boiler is always needed.  Modern welding
>can add a new section of a boiler and make it as good as new

that is excatly what was done RGS 20.  the big dent in the boiler was cut out and a new patch was welded in.

ap


sent by andy peerand using recyled protons

... ... Ham on rye:  Drunk radio operator.



Re: K-36 and K-37

Mick Moignard
 

I have one of those early K-28s. I think mine is early 60s. Mixture of castings and turnings for detail, some good, some a great deal less than good.  Ran ok, but it got remotored, retailed, new cab interior and a whole pile of TLC to make what I thought then was an acceptable 478, tho still with solid drivers and chequerplate running boards.  Then I saw a Westside, which just had a lot less flaws and became 476.  That old 478 is on the shelf now.  I still get it down occasionally, but only occasionally.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

, so please excuse the typos.

Re: K-36 and K-37

Brian Kopp
 

Mick is your early PFM K-28  from their smaller mid 50s production runs or their bigger mid-60s runs? I am curious how the WMC and PFM models stack up against each other when they were made at about the same time. They seem to have both made K-28s in the mid 60s and with near the same production quantities and estimated prices ( $350 in the 2009 Brass Guide), I am wondering if they were very different from each other in quality when made near the same time.

Speaking of the Brass Guide, and looking at K-28s for example, there is a clear trend in prices (newer is more expensive). Since this bucks the general trend with antiques.....am I to assume that model quality has improved that significantly over 50 years? From a 1956 PFM/United at $350 to an early 2000s DP/BOO-RIM at $1450? In the hands of a master modeler could a 1956 PFM/United be rebuilt to the point where it could stand side by side with the DP/BOO-RIM?

Still learning......

Brian Kopp
904-206-3453
brian@...


On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 4:14 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

I have one of those early K-28s. I think mine is early 60s. Mixture of castings and turnings for detail, some good, some a great deal less than good.  Ran ok, but it got remotored, retailed, new cab interior and a whole pile of TLC to make what I thought then was an acceptable 478, tho still with solid drivers and chequerplate running boards.  Then I saw a Westside, which just had a lot less flaws and became 476.  That old 478 is on the shelf now.  I still get it down occasionally, but only occasionally.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

, so please excuse the typos.

Re: K-36 and K-37

Dusty
 

Given enough time and money anything is possible. Right?

Was Dung Heep an early builder for PFM? Just kidding.

For the time they were amazing models that fueled Hon3 modelers' visions.

Dusty Burman 

Jacks Cabin / Villa Grove water tank

Ed Tibbetts
 

I want to build a water tank based on the Villa Grove / Jacks Cabin small water tank.
I have enough pictures, but would like to know the tank diameter and height.
Ed T.

Re: K-36 and K-37

Lee Gustafson
 

Does anyone remember the builder Daiyoung ( sp? ) 


-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2019 11:13 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

Given enough time and money anything is possible. Right?

Was Dung Heep an early builder for PFM? Just kidding.

For the time they were amazing models that fueled Hon3 modelers' visions.

Dusty Burman 

Re: K-36 and K-37

Ric Case
 

I think I do! 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On May 26, 2019, at 3:36 PM, Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

Does anyone remember the builder Daiyoung ( sp? ) 


-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2019 11:13 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

Given enough time and money anything is possible. Right?

Was Dung Heep an early builder for PFM? Just kidding.

For the time they were amazing models that fueled Hon3 modelers' visions.

Dusty Burman 

Re: K-36 and K-37

Dave Trimble
 

Regarding the size of the K-37, several suggested that a standard gauge clearance gauge was necessary because of the size of the standard gauge C-41 from which they was made.

Well I was able to obtain a Westside K-37 made by Nakamura. 

On my layout, I have several tunnel portals constructed using the NMRA HOn3 standards gauge. The actual portal width is 1/16” wider than the gauge and about 1” deep (before widening out within the tunnels. 

There was was no interference problem and the widest part of the locomotive was due to the cab awnings.

note: if Blackstone ever makes their K-36 AND uses the K-27 cab awnings comparable to the large one used on the K-27s, that may become me the governing HOn3 clearance.

Regards,
Dave

PS: I want the tunnel portals to be as small as practical so that they do not dominate the scene. 

Re: K-36 and K-37

Mick Moignard
 

Brian

It’s probably a mid-60 one.  There is no real comparison to the Westside, the Westside is a far better model
- spoked drivers
- finer motion rods
- better castings - and more of them
- properly done running boards, no unprototypical chequer plate
- much better drive, and while the Namiki motor isn’t up to much, it’s a 10 minute job to change it for a Mashima, at least while one can still get a Mashima.
- detailed cab interior
The Westside isn’t perfect. It’s modelled on the 1960 or early 70s locos as they were then with the power reverser and the tender coal boards.  Easy to fix tho. Personally I think the PSC 1994 MSM-made model (don’t confuse with PSC reruns of the Westside in the 80s) is the best K-28 model made. Better than the 2001 Division Point. Almost as rare but cheaper when you do find one.


Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

, so please excuse the typos.

Re: K-36 and K-37

Dale Buxton
 

   Daiyoung  made the NJ brass D&RGW M-67. Nice looking model but not a great runner. Quite thin brass used in the boiler.

Dale

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 1:36 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Does anyone remember the builder Daiyoung ( sp? ) 


-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2019 11:13 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

Given enough time and money anything is possible. Right?

Was Dung Heep an early builder for PFM? Just kidding.

For the time they were amazing models that fueled Hon3 modelers' visions.

Dusty Burman 

Re: Jacks Cabin / Villa Grove water tank

Dale Buxton
 

RS Laser Kits makes a kit of it that is still on the market. Someone here or on the D&RG list said that the CRRM "No Agua" tank was based on the D&RG plans for these two tanks. 

Dale

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 12:46 PM Ed Tibbetts via Groups.Io <tippytib=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
I want to build a water tank based on the Villa Grove / Jacks Cabin small water tank.
I have enough pictures, but would like to know the tank diameter and height.
Ed T.

Re: Jacks Cabin / Villa Grove water tank

Brian Kopp
 

Here is my only photo with the "no agua" tank from my CRM visit last month. Sorry its not a better photo of the tank.

A research request to the CRM library may yield some plans.....

Brian Kopp
904-206-3453
brian@...


On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 9:03 AM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
RS Laser Kits makes a kit of it that is still on the market. Someone here or on the D&RG list said that the CRRM "No Agua" tank was based on the D&RG plans for these two tanks. 

Dale

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 12:46 PM Ed Tibbetts via Groups.Io <tippytib=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
I want to build a water tank based on the Villa Grove / Jacks Cabin small water tank.
I have enough pictures, but would like to know the tank diameter and height.
Ed T.

Re: K-36 and K-37

Brian Kopp
 

Thanks Mick (and Dale and everyone else too) for the insights on details of the brass locos. There is so much to learn, but that is the fun of it for me. I only have one K-28, a PFM I bought in 1999 at Peach Creek Shops in Maryland for $425 (too much back in 1999?). But I would like to buy another one or two and be a smarter buyer this time.....

here is a picture of the PFM K-28


Brian Kopp
904-206-3453
brian@...


On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 3:04 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

Brian

It’s probably a mid-60 one.  There is no real comparison to the Westside, the Westside is a far better model
- spoked drivers
- finer motion rods
- better castings - and more of them
- properly done running boards, no unprototypical chequer plate
- much better drive, and while the Namiki motor isn’t up to much, it’s a 10 minute job to change it for a Mashima, at least while one can still get a Mashima.
- detailed cab interior
The Westside isn’t perfect. It’s modelled on the 1960 or early 70s locos as they were then with the power reverser and the tender coal boards.  Easy to fix tho. Personally I think the PSC 1994 MSM-made model (don’t confuse with PSC reruns of the Westside in the 80s) is the best K-28 model made. Better than the 2001 Division Point. Almost as rare but cheaper when you do find one.


Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

, so please excuse the typos.

Daiyoung

Lee Gustafson
 

Typical of Daiyoung models, not great mechanical stuff, thinner brass some weak or cold solder joints.

Lee Gustafson

 

On May 27, 2019, at 7:53 AM, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

   Daiyoung  made the NJ brass D&RGW M-67. Nice looking model but not a great runner. Quite thin brass used in the boiler.

Dale

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 1:36 PM Lee Gustafson via Groups.Io <bagustaf=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Does anyone remember the builder Daiyoung ( sp? ) 


-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty <dustburm@q.com>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2019 11:13 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

Given enough time and money anything is possible. Right?

Was Dung Heep an early builder for PFM? Just kidding.

For the time they were amazing models that fueled Hon3 modelers' visions.

Dusty Burman 

Re: Jacks Cabin / Villa Grove water tank

Mark Lewis
 

Ed:

Here is the direct link to the RS Laser HO Jack's Cabin Water Tank..... http://www.rslaserkits.com/SCM-204-Jack%E2%80%99s-Cabin-Water-Tank_p_4125.html   

Mark Lewis

Re: C-25 width

John Stutz
 

Regarding the five C-25 equivalent engines: These were not exact copies of CR #103, and that engine was twice severely modified by the D&RG, first with a an extended cab and later with a near standard cab moved back to enclose the backhead.   The last is the familiar version that we see modeled.  BLW practice with OF 2-8-0s was to place the cab forward, with the backhead extending about 18" behind the cab wall, and this was done on all six as built.  There were also differences in the auxiliaries, particularly air tank locations.  I believe that erection drawings of the two Shannon Arizona engines, and the Q&TL version, are available from the DeGolyer Library Special Collections at Southern Methodist University.

Regarding OF engine counterweights:  BLW practice prior to about 1902 was to use simple cranks with conventional counterweights on the drivers.  The K-27s were built during a transition period, with counterweights on both the driver centers and the cranks.  After about 1904, the full counterweight was put on the cranks.  The dated decision is recorded in a BLW Drawing Office "Bible" specifying design standards, and currently in the Stanford University Library's Special Collections.  As the K-28s demonstrate, ALCo continued to put side rod counterweights on the driver centers, and only provided crank counterweights for the main rods. 

Total North American production of outside framed 2-8-0s ran to about 300 engines, almost all exported.  One large scale user was the 30" gauge FC Antofagasta and Bolivia, which once had 25 each from BLW and ALCo, plus plate framed versions from British builders.

John Stutz

On 5/25/2019 1:17 AM, roundbell via Groups.Io wrote:
There is still a C-25 in existence. After Baldwin built the Crystal River engines They used the plans for Crystal River RR Co. #103 ( 10-30Eplan 7  Jan 1903 to build 5 more 3' engines. The last one was built in Dec. 1912 for the Quincy Mining Co. as # 6 and is on display at the Quincy Mine Hoist Museum ( a National Park Service operation ) at Quincy, Michigan on the Upper Peninsula. You can visit and measure it and they sell a book that has scale plans of all their engines and many other pieces of their equipment. All engines built to the same Baldwin plan are basically identical, in this case all the locos had the same dimensions but in this case #103 had wheel counterweights cast as part of the wheel centers where the later 5 had the counterweights outside the frames as part of the crankpin throws. It would be easy to double check all dimensions.  Wayne Weiss


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, May 20, 2019 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?

Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Ray <rayhon3@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 11:39 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.
Ray

Re: Jacks Cabin / Villa Grove water tank

Ed Tibbetts
 

Got some replies on the Sn3group. 12’ x 12’.  😊👍🚂

Re: Jacks Cabin / Villa Grove water tank

Earl Knoob
 

Another full scale reproduction exists at La Veta, CO on the San Luis & Rio Grande.  We wanted to build a water tank there for the steam program the SLRG had.  I still had/have an un-built Simpson Products Jacks Cabin Tank.  I copied the plans out of the kit for the contractor to build the tank.  The frostbox height was increased so the spout would be standard gauge height.  Sadly, the SLRG steam operation was shuttered before the tank was put into service.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Ed Tibbetts via Groups.Io <tippytib@...>
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 11:04 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Jacks Cabin / Villa Grove water tank
 
Got some replies on the Sn3group. 12’ x 12’.  😊👍🚂