Date   
Re: K-36 and K-37

Mike Conder
 

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?

Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Ray <rayhon3@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 11:39 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.
Ray

Re: K-36 and K-37

Doug Cummings
 

Examples of the D&RGW K-36 and K-37 both exist today. . The K37's are converted standard gauge locomotives.

DEC


From: "Mike Conder" <vulturenest1@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:06:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?
Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.




 

Re: K-36 and K-37

Earl Knoob
 

The simple mechanics of placing the frames outside of the drive wheels makes the engine wider, allowing the larger boiler to set lower in the frame and be more stable.  The distance across the tops of the outside edges of the  frames on an outside frame 3' gauge locomotive is around  59".  By the time you add the driving boxes and counterwieghts and/or cranks to the end of the axles you are wider than a similar sized standard gauge locomotive.  A standard gauge engine is around 48" across the tops of the frames.

Makes no difference if it is a 2-8-0 or a 2-8-2,  an outside frame 3' gauge engine is wider than a comparable standard gauge machine.  


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Doug Cummings <dougcummings@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 6:13 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
Examples of the D&RGW K-36 and K-37 both exist today. . The K37's are converted standard gauge locomotives.

DEC


From: "Mike Conder" <vulturenest1@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:06:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?
Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.




 

Re: Abteilung weathering.

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Hugely thanks JC. I'm quite OK with washes but on Hyrocal or plaster using water based acrylics but never tried the concept of 'barrier' coats which make perfect sense. That same concept will make things like pointing brickwork (do you call it that in the US, the cement between the bricks) so much easier using a oil wash and capiliary action over a barrier coat.

I'll experiment as you suggest and hopefully will come up with the right materials (and technique) in the not too distant future.

Thanks again,

Mark K
Oxon England.

Re: K-36 and K-37

Mark Kasprowicz
 
Edited

That would be a standard gauge INSIDE frame locomotive, surely! There are other differences between the two. K-37's have the whistle and safety valve mounted behind the steam dome, the 36's have them on the steam dome. Another clue is that most 36's have number boards either side of the stach as well as flanking the headlight, 378's only had them either side of the stack but not all 36 were like that.

Mark K
Oxon England.

NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

David Keith
 

I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large "pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did.  I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Brian Kopp
 

The March/April 2017 Gazette has an article on this very topic. Craig Symington is the author.
He tried a 25x12 motor but it was not strong enough. He then went with a Faulhaber 1319 but noted the high cost.
For gearing he used a NWSL 140-6 (281) but noted it was a little big and he had to remove some frame material.
This is a brass bashing article and he does a nice job of detailing the interior and exterior, including adding a backhead to hide the new smaller motor.
Lots of part numbers given. A real nice step by step article.
Brian

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Bill Lugg
 

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end.  If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG).  Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay).  They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them.  FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington.  I figured for the price, it's worth a try.  Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large
"pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did. 
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Bruce Dunlevy
 

Locodoc.com

Bruce Dunlevy


On May 17, 2019, at 11:04 AM, David Keith <dckeith14@...> wrote:

I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large "pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did.  I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Abteilung weathering.

Mark Kasprowicz
 

JC,

I got my Ableilung box of goodies including their fast drying thinner. A 'nose' test (aka SNORT) suggests it is no more than Acetone or nail varnish remover as my wife called it. Please pass onto the Jerry and in the meanwhile I'll give it a snort... er shot..

Mark K

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Pete C
 

Hey Bill
I am part of the R&RG group and I can vouch for those Minebea motors along with the Mabuchi SF-266SA.
The Minebea are 15mm square and the Mabuchi is 18mm square.
Both are very quiet and powerful for their size and rival many coreless motors.
The Minebea do not have integral capacitors while the Mabuchi do have them and can play havoc with some decoder BEMF but can be tweaked to work well. I remove them before installing.
I put one of those 15mm gems in several switchers and a couple smaller engines like a Hallmark C-21 and the performance is assume.
If there is room for the 18mm it is my “go to” motor for everything except the larger road engines and articulateds. Is typically use a 22x30 Maxon A-max class motor.

In summary those 15mm and 18mm motors are well worth the $2 bucks.
I have a stash of 40 of each.

Pete

On May 21, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end. If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG). Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay). They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them. FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington. I figured for the price, it's worth a try. Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass. It has a large
"pittman-like" motor. I do not have the original box. I never did.
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21? With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Bill Lugg
 

So, Pete, just to be clear I bought a dozen of these
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/273005755478).  You're saying these don't have
the caps in them?

I also bought a few of these (https://www.ebay.com/itm/122078943020) and
if I understand you correctly, you're saying they do have the caps in
them, right?  If so, this is curious because the fifth photo of the
motor shows it disassembled and I don't see the little PCB that I've
seen in other photos.

Thanks
Bill

On 5/21/19 11:34 AM, Pete C wrote:
Hey Bill
I am part of the R&RG group and I can vouch for those Minebea motors along with the Mabuchi SF-266SA.
The Minebea are 15mm square and the Mabuchi is 18mm square.
Both are very quiet and powerful for their size and rival many coreless motors.
The Minebea do not have integral capacitors while the Mabuchi do have them and can play havoc with some decoder BEMF but can be tweaked to work well. I remove them before installing.
I put one of those 15mm gems in several switchers and a couple smaller engines like a Hallmark C-21 and the performance is assume.
If there is room for the 18mm it is my “go to” motor for everything except the larger road engines and articulateds. Is typically use a 22x30 Maxon A-max class motor.

In summary those 15mm and 18mm motors are well worth the $2 bucks.
I have a stash of 40 of each.

Pete

On May 21, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end. If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG). Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay). They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them. FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington. I figured for the price, it's worth a try. Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass. It has a large
"pittman-like" motor. I do not have the original box. I never did.
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21? With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Pete C
 

Yes , no caps with the 15mm Minebea. For the Mabuchi you are looking at, its an SH and not an SA so it’s possible that the ones you are looking at are made without the caps.
The only way to know for sure is open it when you get them or maybe we can find a spec sheet that will explain the suffixes.
I hope they are without because there are a number of folks that won’t use these due to having to open the motor and do surgery.

Pete

On May 21, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

So, Pete, just to be clear I bought a dozen of these
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/273005755478). You're saying these don't have
the caps in them?

I also bought a few of these (https://www.ebay.com/itm/122078943020) and
if I understand you correctly, you're saying they do have the caps in
them, right? If so, this is curious because the fifth photo of the
motor shows it disassembled and I don't see the little PCB that I've
seen in other photos.

Thanks
Bill


On 5/21/19 11:34 AM, Pete C wrote:
Hey Bill
I am part of the R&RG group and I can vouch for those Minebea motors along with the Mabuchi SF-266SA.
The Minebea are 15mm square and the Mabuchi is 18mm square.
Both are very quiet and powerful for their size and rival many coreless motors.
The Minebea do not have integral capacitors while the Mabuchi do have them and can play havoc with some decoder BEMF but can be tweaked to work well. I remove them before installing.
I put one of those 15mm gems in several switchers and a couple smaller engines like a Hallmark C-21 and the performance is assume.
If there is room for the 18mm it is my “go to” motor for everything except the larger road engines and articulateds. Is typically use a 22x30 Maxon A-max class motor.

In summary those 15mm and 18mm motors are well worth the $2 bucks.
I have a stash of 40 of each.

Pete

On May 21, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end. If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG). Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay). They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them. FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington. I figured for the price, it's worth a try. Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass. It has a large
"pittman-like" motor. I do not have the original box. I never did.
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21? With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Pete C
 

Here is a link to the Mabuchi site with an explanation of the motor number codes.  Unfortunately there is not an explanation for the H vs A in the suffix.  Only to contact Mabuchi for details for each motor.
Oh well, we are still going to have to open one to know.


Pete


On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 4:49 PM Pete C via Groups.Io <sp4450=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Yes , no caps with the 15mm Minebea. For the Mabuchi you are looking at, its an SH and not an SA so it’s possible that the ones you are looking at are made without the caps.
  The only way to know for sure is open it when you get them or maybe we can find a spec sheet that will explain the suffixes.
  I hope they are without because there are a number of folks that won’t use these due to having to open the motor and do surgery.

Pete



> On May 21, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
>
> So, Pete, just to be clear I bought a dozen of these
> (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273005755478).  You're saying these don't have
> the caps in them?
>
> I also bought a few of these (https://www.ebay.com/itm/122078943020) and
> if I understand you correctly, you're saying they do have the caps in
> them, right?  If so, this is curious because the fifth photo of the
> motor shows it disassembled and I don't see the little PCB that I've
> seen in other photos.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
>
>> On 5/21/19 11:34 AM, Pete C wrote:
>> Hey Bill
>>   I am part of the R&RG group and I can vouch for those Minebea motors along with the Mabuchi SF-266SA.
>> The Minebea are 15mm square and the Mabuchi is 18mm square.
>> Both are very quiet and powerful for their size and rival many coreless motors.
>> The Minebea do not have integral capacitors while the Mabuchi do have them and can play havoc with some decoder BEMF but can be tweaked to work well.  I remove them before installing.
>> I put one of those 15mm gems in several switchers and a couple smaller engines like a Hallmark C-21 and the performance is assume.
>> If there is room for the 18mm it is my “go to” motor for everything except the larger road engines and articulateds. Is typically use a 22x30 Maxon A-max class motor.
>>
>> In summary those 15mm and 18mm motors are well worth the $2 bucks.
>> I have a stash of 40 of each.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>> On May 21, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> A couple of general thoughts...
>>>
>>> First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
>>> project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
>>> my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
>>> be right up to the end.  If you order something, expect it to take a while.
>>>
>>> Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
>>> about repowering a Westside loco (SG).  Several folks recommended the
>>> Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
>>> Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
>>> eBay).  They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
>>> have had good luck with them.  FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
>>> with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
>>> Symington.  I figured for the price, it's worth a try.  Also, they are
>>> recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> Bill Lugg
>>>
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>> On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
>>>> I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large
>>>> "pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did.
>>>> I have a note, that it might be a balboa?
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd
>>>> like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
>>>> when I start the project.
>>>>
>>>> Dave K.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> David Keith
>>>> Cincinnati, OH
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



Re: Abteilung weathering.

jczul36
 

That Great!  However, acetone will eat away at my lacquer base barrie, so be careful.  This is why scalecoat 1 thinner is handy.  It thins the oils, but will not disturb the barrier.  



On May 21, 2019, at 10:04 AM, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:

JC,

I got my Ableilung box of goodies including their fast drying thinner. A 'nose' test (aka SNORT) suggests it is no more than Acetone or nail varnish remover as my wife called it. Please pass onto the Jerry and in the meanwhile I'll give it a snort... er shot..

Mark K

Help Needed -- Can I use a Shinohara HO HOn3 transition track on a truntable

dandrewscan
 

Good Day folks and thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

I am installing a Mil Scale 65 foot turntable on my HO HOn3 layout.  Can I use a Shinohara HO HOn3 transition track to handle the locos back onto the layout after I turn them?

The HO gauge should be no problem but I am not sure about the HOn3 gauge.  I am using good old DC to power all the track on this layout.  I looked on Google and most of the previous discussion on dual gauge turntables was around using 4 rails.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.  Please email back to the group or to me directly at dandrews1@...

Best,  Doug 

Re: Help Needed -- Can I use a Shinohara HO HOn3 transition track on a truntable

Randy Hees
 

Traditionally, a three rail dual gauge railroad transitioned to 4 rails using a draw (similar to the transition track) before the turntable... the turntable had 4 tracks so that the narrow gauge was centered between the standard gauge...   

I have heard of modelers just laying three rails across the turntable... the error at the end of the turntable is minor and if carefully lined up is not an issue.

Randy Hees

Slim Gauge Guild Open House.

Traintalk
 

Slim Gauge Guild Model Railroad Club Open House

The Slim Gauge Guild Model Railroad Club would like to invite you
to our Spring Open House on

Sunday, June 2, from 10am to 6pm and
Tuesday night, June 4 from 6pm to 10pm. 

We have two layouts in a 2,000 sq ft basement. 
A HO/HOn3 layout with a D&RGW / RGS theme and the second layout is S/Sn3 with a D&RGW and West Side Lumber theme. 

Admission is FREE. Come and enjoy narrow gauge mountain railroading in miniature, at its finest.

The Slim Gauge Guild is freeway close, located in Pasadena California
at the South East corner of Raymond Ave. and Del mar Ave., in the
basement of the Congregation Ale House Building. We are located across the street from
the MTA Gold Line Del Mar Station.

A lot of work has been done in the past 6 months, come and see what has changed.

Slim Gauge Guild Model Railroad Club
300 S. Raymond Ave. (Basement)
Pasadena, CA 91105

http://www.slimgaugeguild.com/

Re: Abteilung weathering.

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Yes, that occured to me at three o'clock in the morning. All it says on the bottle is that it contains 'Hydrocarbons' - that's about the whole gammit of organic chemistry isn't it? I will tread most carefully.

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Craig Symington
 

Brian,

Thanks for the kind comments.

As an update. If I were to do this project again I’d look at the minebea 15mm square motor or some other Chinese motor off eBay. They weren’t available (or at least known to me) when I wrote that article.

Craig Symington.