Date   
Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Al,

I couldn't agree with Mike more, I now also use Frog Juicers instead of the internal switching on my Tortoises on the new part of my layout. I will convert the rest of the turnouts over when i get back to the States and obtain more Hex juicers.

You can convert a Tortoise to be more forgiving switching frog. If you look inside one you'll find the frog switching is accompished by a wiper sweeping across an arc of copper on a PCB. It has a small gap in the center. Nice and simple except if the point blade is late in moving away from the stock rail for whatever reason the Tortoise wiper will continue across the arc and switch the flog polarity thus causing a short. The way out of this is to shorten the copper track on each side so that only the very ends are powered. A dremel and a cutoff wheel makes short work of this. That said it's easier to fit Juicers.

I also recently started to fit Tortoises by screwing them in from the TOP of the baseboard (the Tortoise remains underneath the board, only the holding screws go through from the top). (71 here!). I made a wooden Tortoise template and first drill the hole for the wire, lock the template in place with a wooden dowel, then drill the four holes for the screws all the way through from the top and countersink them. I use 2.5M screws and matching locking nuts. A 1/4" drive with the right socket and extension holds the nut in place underneath while an electric screwdriver from the top does the rest.

Much easier than working from underneath!

Mark K
Oxon, England.

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Mike Conder
 

Great idea!  MUCH prefer working from the top (except on the modules, where they can be set on their sides.)

Mike Conder

Last Tortoise Post

asandrini
 


Gentlemen 

Tortoise installed and working perfectly. The final installation process?  

Well, it was a little bit of everyone's input cobbled together.

I installed the Tortoise inbetted in the 2" foam. With the wire pointing at the turnout, 1" off of the throwbar, I used the wire included with the Tortoise to connect to a 90 degree  bellcrank. The bellcrank (a common model aircraft part) was mounted to a piece of masonite, used to cover the machine. 

The bell crank has 3 holes in the arm, which by changing positions you can get different ratios between the input (machine travel) and the output (movement of the throwbar). 

In my application, I have the wire in the outer hole from the Tortoise and the inner hole to the throwbar. The flex of the output wire makes up for the slight overthrow, and still keeps proper tension on the points.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. 
Did not intend to blow up the 3 groups emails with my question...but that is why we all subscribe to these lists....to get help and to offer help when needed.

Happy modeling,

Al


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

Re: Last Tortoise Post

Russ Norris
 

Well done, Al!   We're all learners here, and I too have learned a lot from this discussion.

Russ Norris



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: asandrini <asandrini@...>
Date: 1/26/19 3:07 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: HOn30@groups.io, HOn3@groups.io, finescaleminiatures@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Last Tortoise Post


Gentlemen 

Tortoise installed and working perfectly. The final installation process?  

Well, it was a little bit of everyone's input cobbled together.

I installed the Tortoise inbetted in the 2" foam. With the wire pointing at the turnout, 1" off of the throwbar, I used the wire included with the Tortoise to connect to a 90 degree  bellcrank. The bellcrank (a common model aircraft part) was mounted to a piece of masonite, used to cover the machine. 

The bell crank has 3 holes in the arm, which by changing positions you can get different ratios between the input (machine travel) and the output (movement of the throwbar). 

In my application, I have the wire in the outer hole from the Tortoise and the inner hole to the throwbar. The flex of the output wire makes up for the slight overthrow, and still keeps proper tension on the points.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. 
Did not intend to blow up the 3 groups emails with my question...but that is why we all subscribe to these lists....to get help and to offer help when needed.

Happy modeling,

Al


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

Re: Last Tortoise Post

Mike Conder
 

Would love to see a photo of the finally result ...

Mike Conder

Nice video ...

Mike Conder
 

Led 4ft tube replacements.

Dusty
 

My 30 year old layout lighting needs an update. Old tubes are starting to flake out and I fear my antique ballasts may be nearing their life expectancy. I have replaced misc 4ft tubes around the house with ballast bypass single end Leds and I liked the result.
My 18 x 20 layout room has 24 tubes with wrap around defusers. I'm considering replacing these with 3000 lumen, 6500k single end LEDs. Standard wisdom says more light is better but is it really? Could the 50% increase be undesirable. Honestly I can't remember the light gains just going to 2000 lumen leds!

Does anyone have experience upgrading with a bit higher output Leds? Before and after opinions?

Dusty Burman 
623 261-8707

Re: Led 4ft tube replacements.

Ric Case
 

I have been replacing mine with 5000k direct replacement tubes.
The increased light just makes up for the the dark side of my old eyes. To all that visit the upgraded sections are a hit.
You will find you won’t be able to please all! 
Rule number one is in-effect and it’s your choice for the most part!
Ric Case
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694


On Jan 27, 2019, at 1:14 PM, Dusty <dustburm@q.com> wrote:

My 30 year old layout lighting needs an update. Old tubes are starting to flake out and I fear my antique ballasts may be nearing their life expectancy. I have replaced misc 4ft tubes around the house with ballast bypass single end Leds and I liked the result.
My 18 x 20 layout room has 24 tubes with wrap around defusers. I'm considering replacing these with 3000 lumen, 6500k single end LEDs. Standard wisdom says more light is better but is it really? Could the 50% increase be undesirable. Honestly I can't remember the light gains just going to 2000 lumen leds!

Does anyone have experience upgrading with a bit higher output Leds? Before and after opinions?

Dusty Burman 
623 261-8707

Re: Led 4ft tube replacements.

Ken Martin
 

The Sacramento club HOn3 layout room is 14’ x 60’ and was lit with a number of 4 tube light fixtures that over the years had gotten different value tubes so light was not consistent.
Also in the summer the heat and current draw meant we had to disconnect some, which left some areas dark.
We just went through and removed the ballasts and replaced the tubes with 2 LED tubes per fixture. 

The difference is amazing. I don’t know the difference in lumens but we have a nice uniform light that is not over bright. 
We are also drawing less current so will not have the heat build up this summer.

I would say go ahead and do it. 

Ken Martin
Sacramento


Does anyone have experience upgrading with a bit higher output Leds? Before and after opinions?

Dusty Burman 
623 261-8707
_._,_._,_

Montrose

Risrwy@...
 

I added an album entitled Montrose as of January 2019. It is a quick look at the progress being made in Montrose. Paul.

--
Recreating the 14th. Subdivision
D&RGW Salida Division in 1929

Re: Led 4ft tube replacements.

Mark Kasprowicz
 

I'm just in the process of replacing the old tubes and fittings with 4 foot LED batten tube fittings. The result is a stronger, much more even light and of course the big surprise, instant light the moment you flick the switch. I used 4000K fittings, we have 6500K spotlights in the shower room which is next door and I felt it was a bit too stark. But go for it, a really positive move.

Mark K
Oxon England.

Re: Led 4ft tube replacements.

Robert Googooian <k59mikado@...>
 

The Pasadena Model RR Museum is in the process of converting from Fluorescent fixture to dimmable LED Lighting strips - seven rows with two LED tapes per row: an RBG-coolwhite and a varilight white (trimmable between 3200 and 5400K) We just got the equipment and are starting the install - Layout room is 70 x 72 ft, I'll let you know how it goes.



Bob

On Sunday, January 27, 2019, 12:39:58 PM PST, Ken Martin <kmartin537@...> wrote:


The Sacramento club HOn3 layout room is 14’ x 60’ and was lit with a number of 4 tube light fixtures that over the years had gotten different value tubes so light was not consistent.
Also in the summer the heat and current draw meant we had to disconnect some, which left some areas dark.
We just went through and removed the ballasts and replaced the tubes with 2 LED tubes per fixture. 

The difference is amazing. I don’t know the difference in lumens but we have a nice uniform light that is not over bright. 
We are also drawing less current so will not have the heat build up this summer.

I would say go ahead and do it. 

Ken Martin
Sacramento


Does anyone have experience upgrading with a bit higher output Leds? Before and after opinions?

Dusty Burman 
623 261-8707

Re: Led 4ft tube replacements.

Robert Googooian <k59mikado@...>
 

More light is almost always better, and LEDs are the better way to go.  But I'm not sure you want 6500K color temp. That's light clear sky at noon. It will make all your layout colors shift unless your old fluorescents were a similar color temp.

Bob

On Sunday, January 27, 2019, 10:14:24 AM PST, Dusty <dustburm@q.com> wrote:


My 30 year old layout lighting needs an update. Old tubes are starting to flake out and I fear my antique ballasts may be nearing their life expectancy. I have replaced misc 4ft tubes around the house with ballast bypass single end Leds and I liked the result.
My 18 x 20 layout room has 24 tubes with wrap around defusers. I'm considering replacing these with 3000 lumen, 6500k single end LEDs. Standard wisdom says more light is better but is it really? Could the 50% increase be undesirable. Honestly I can't remember the light gains just going to 2000 lumen leds!

Does anyone have experience upgrading with a bit higher output Leds? Before and after opinions?

Dusty Burman 
623 261-8707

Blackstone K-27 and C-19 For Sale

silent_11111 <silent_11111@...>
 

Hey everyone,

I have 1 Blackstone K-27 and 1 Blackstone C-19 I'd like to sell.

#464 B310107-S Flying Grande Herald
(K-27)

#345 B310201-S Flying Grande Herald
(C-19)



Both have seen light use on my small setup.

Asking $350 shipped each to the lower 48.

I highly prefer PayPal



Thanks

Paul H
Myrtle Beach, SC

Re: Led 4ft tube replacements.

burr.stewart@...
 

There was a nice article in the Carstens HOn3 Annual a few years back about color temperature, from which I concluded that 4000K was a good compromise between a warm 3000K we're used to from Halogens and the 5000K "cool white". I have tried 6500 and it was way too odd, although I have to admit that the blue sky backdrop looked the most realistic under it. I have a combination of halogen track lights and 4' flourescent tubes of various temperatures, and have been slowly converting the halogens to 3000K LED's and the tubes to 4000K LED tubes. It has dramatically cut the power drain (4500 watts to 500 watts total) and the color seems about the same, with a little more brightness. I don't think you can overdo the brightness, as others have already said. Thanks for bringing this important subject up!

Re: Blackstone C-19 pulling power?

John Stutz
 

Dale

Axle wipers do not actually need the high contact forces that make most commercial axle wipers such effective brakes.

They do require moderately high contact pressure to maintain electrical continuity, but pressure is force over area, and small contact area can ensure sufficient pressure with quite low contact force and braking action.   So scrap the  stamped sheet Blackstone wipers for some light brass spring wire, say about 5-10 thousandths, and you should see major improvement.  Note that the bending resistance of a round wire is proportional to the third power of its diameter, so between 5 and 10 thou the stiffness increases 8-fold, other factors being equal.    A bit of experiment will be required, but contact force can also be lowered by lengthening the wire.

On 1/21/2019 5:47 PM, Dale Buxton wrote:
Yes, if you put axle wipers on Backstone cars for sound cars or cars with lighting. I have found that these C-19’s can only pull 4 wiper equipped cars on the flat and level.

Dale Buxton

Re: Blackstone C-19 pulling power?

Dale Buxton
 

Thanks John, 

But, I already know all of that and have implemented it on my sound cars. Which are really a lot of fun to run in trains. I just wanted to pass on that the Blackstone wipers create a a great deal (make that HUGE amount)  of drag to the otherwise massively free-rolling Blackstone trucks. I sure hope we see them on the market again!

Dale

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:48 AM John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:
Dale

Axle wipers do not actually need the high contact forces that make most
commercial axle wipers such effective brakes.

They do require moderately high contact pressure to maintain electrical
continuity, but pressure is force over area, and small contact area can
ensure sufficient pressure with quite low contact force and braking
action.   So scrap the  stamped sheet Blackstone wipers for some light
brass spring wire, say about 5-10 thousandths, and you should see major
improvement.  Note that the bending resistance of a round wire is
proportional to the third power of its diameter, so between 5 and 10
thou the stiffness increases 8-fold, other factors being equal.    A bit
of experiment will be required, but contact force can also be lowered by
lengthening the wire.

On 1/21/2019 5:47 PM, Dale Buxton wrote:
> Yes, if you put axle wipers on Backstone cars for sound cars or cars
> with lighting. I have found that these C-19’s can only pull 4 wiper
> equipped cars on the flat and level.
>
> Dale Buxton
>



Re: Blackstone C-19 pulling power?

arfio@...
 

Would this be spring wire and where might this be purchased?  Thanks.

Allen Farnsworth

On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:58 AM, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

Thanks John, 

But, I already know all of that and have implemented it on my sound cars. Which are really a lot of fun to run in trains. I just wanted to pass on that the Blackstone wipers create a a great deal (make that HUGE amount)  of drag to the otherwise massively free-rolling Blackstone trucks. I sure hope we see them on the market again!

Dale

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:48 AM John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:
Dale

Axle wipers do not actually need the high contact forces that make most
commercial axle wipers such effective brakes.

They do require moderately high contact pressure to maintain electrical
continuity, but pressure is force over area, and small contact area can
ensure sufficient pressure with quite low contact force and braking
action.   So scrap the  stamped sheet Blackstone wipers for some light
brass spring wire, say about 5-10 thousandths, and you should see major
improvement.  Note that the bending resistance of a round wire is
proportional to the third power of its diameter, so between 5 and 10
thou the stiffness increases 8-fold, other factors being equal.    A bit
of experiment will be required, but contact force can also be lowered by
lengthening the wire.

On 1/21/2019 5:47 PM, Dale Buxton wrote:
> Yes, if you put axle wipers on Backstone cars for sound cars or cars
> with lighting. I have found that these C-19’s can only pull 4 wiper
> equipped cars on the flat and level.
>
> Dale Buxton
>



Re: Blackstone C-19 pulling power?

Dale Buxton
 

I use Tichy Train Group's .008" phosphor bronze wire. Readily available on their web site if your local hobby shop does not have it.

Dale Buxton

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 10:07 AM <arfio@...> wrote:
Would this be spring wire and where might this be purchased?  Thanks.

Allen Farnsworth

On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:58 AM, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

Thanks John, 

But, I already know all of that and have implemented it on my sound cars. Which are really a lot of fun to run in trains. I just wanted to pass on that the Blackstone wipers create a a great deal (make that HUGE amount)  of drag to the otherwise massively free-rolling Blackstone trucks. I sure hope we see them on the market again!

Dale

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:48 AM John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:
Dale

Axle wipers do not actually need the high contact forces that make most
commercial axle wipers such effective brakes.

They do require moderately high contact pressure to maintain electrical
continuity, but pressure is force over area, and small contact area can
ensure sufficient pressure with quite low contact force and braking
action.   So scrap the  stamped sheet Blackstone wipers for some light
brass spring wire, say about 5-10 thousandths, and you should see major
improvement.  Note that the bending resistance of a round wire is
proportional to the third power of its diameter, so between 5 and 10
thou the stiffness increases 8-fold, other factors being equal.    A bit
of experiment will be required, but contact force can also be lowered by
lengthening the wire.

On 1/21/2019 5:47 PM, Dale Buxton wrote:
> Yes, if you put axle wipers on Backstone cars for sound cars or cars
> with lighting. I have found that these C-19’s can only pull 4 wiper
> equipped cars on the flat and level.
>
> Dale Buxton
>



Finelines Magazine

Clifford Mestel
 

I have the following issues of Finelines that I would like to sell for $10 plus $1.30 postage:

5-4, 7-4, 7-5, 8-6, 9-1, 9-2, 9-3, 9-4, 9-5, 9-6, 10-1, 10-2, 10-3, 10-4, 10-5, 10-6, 11-2, 11-4, 11-5

I can take Visa or MasterCard

Clifford Mestel
clifmestel@...