Date   
Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Mike Van Hove
 

This is very interesting info.

We are moving to a retirement home in 90 days.

Just signed on the dotted line, today.

The home will be completely renovated, before we can move in.

I (think) I can have a 12” to as much as 15” Shelf type HOn3 layout, around 2 walls and part of a third, in  my bedroom.  (could have even more if I’m willing to sleep on the floor.)  Not gonna happen. 🤪

The idea of a quiet layout really appeals to me, as I use Soundtraxx in my engines, and like to have them run at low sound volumes.  This might be a good way to do that.

A question comes to mind;  what if I build up 2 or 3 layers of Blue Foam for scenic purposes?  

Will that change the sound characteristics?

Not sure I can get “Door Skin” but how about thin Luan Plywood?  It’s sold as 1/4” but  its really about 7/32”.  Would that be too thick?

Thanks for any advice you are willing to send my way.

Mike Van Hove

Columbia, MO 

On Jan 21, 2019, at 8:50 PM, Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

I have a large layout using 2” extruded (blue) foam. It is as quiet or quieter than the traditional Homosote and plywood. Here was how:
I have worked with acousticians over the years. I learned that dissimilar materials can often cancel out resonant frequencies. Without that, the foam acts like a drum, magnifying the rumble.
The solution I used was to bond thin doorskin plywood or thin Masonite to the underside of the foam panels creating a composite assembly. That assembly will span more than 32”; the 1x3 framing or heavy plywood top is unneeded. And the noise is nearly silent - trust me! An added benefit is switch machines and wiring can be screwed firmly to the underside of the assembly.
It works; saves time; results in a much thinner deck. Try it!
Jim

Re: Blackstone C-19 pulling power?

tonyk537
 

You can add weight to the inside of the cab with lead tape.  I get mine from Sportsman Warehouse in the fly tying area.
I've converted some to other railroads.  This Black hills engine pulls much better.  It has a smoke box extension filled with lead, wagon topped boiler done with lead tape, white metal running board tanks and lead added to the cab.

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Mike Conder
 

Mike, anything would work, 1/8" minimum maybe?  Maximum, up to you.

For me, I use 2" foam, no unsupported panel more than about 24" x 24", and I love using basswood for roadbed.  So zero noise issues for me.

Al, understand that the underside is too crowded to add a skin, but it would work on the topside, too.  And anyway, don't you just want to redo all that scenery?

Mike Conder

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:41 PM Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@...> wrote:
This is very interesting info.

We are moving to a retirement home in 90 days.

Just signed on the dotted line, today.

The home will be completely renovated, before we can move in.

I (think) I can have a 12” to as much as 15” Shelf type HOn3 layout, around 2 walls and part of a third, in  my bedroom.  (could have even more if I’m willing to sleep on the floor.)  Not gonna happen. 🤪

The idea of a quiet layout really appeals to me, as I use Soundtraxx in my engines, and like to have them run at low sound volumes.  This might be a good way to do that.

A question comes to mind;  what if I build up 2 or 3 layers of Blue Foam for scenic purposes?  

Will that change the sound characteristics?

Not sure I can get “Door Skin” but how about thin Luan Plywood?  It’s sold as 1/4” but  its really about 7/32”.  Would that be too thick?

Thanks for any advice you are willing to send my way.

Mike Van Hove

Columbia, MO 

On Jan 21, 2019, at 8:50 PM, Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

I have a large layout using 2” extruded (blue) foam. It is as quiet or quieter than the traditional Homosote and plywood. Here was how:
I have worked with acousticians over the years. I learned that dissimilar materials can often cancel out resonant frequencies. Without that, the foam acts like a drum, magnifying the rumble.
The solution I used was to bond thin doorskin plywood or thin Masonite to the underside of the foam panels creating a composite assembly. That assembly will span more than 32”; the 1x3 framing or heavy plywood top is unneeded. And the noise is nearly silent - trust me! An added benefit is switch machines and wiring can be screwed firmly to the underside of the assembly.
It works; saves time; results in a much thinner deck. Try it!
Jim

Re: Blackstone C-19 pulling power?

bob.meckley@...
 

     My oldest C19 345 is my Gunnison switcher and can pull at least 15 freight cars (most with Blackstone trucks) on level ground and around a 22" rad curve. As it got older the drivers got a little pitted and it now pull more. Slack action with the HOn3 Kadee couplers I use also helps to break the initial friction. I would rather have the drivers slip than burn out a motor. Pulling a car or train with axle wipers kills this pulling power.

Bob Meckley
  

For sale book

Doug Boudakian
 

The Pacific Coast Company ships and narrow gauge rails by Gerald Best. Copyright 1992. Like new with dust cover. 154 pages. Hardcover. $25

Shipping extra

Doug Boudakian
@Durango

Re: For sale book

Steen Mortensen
 

Mine if still available, please…

 

Steen

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Doug Boudakian
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 11:21 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] For sale book

 

The Pacific Coast Company ships and narrow gauge rails by Gerald Best. Copyright 1992. Like new with dust cover. 154 pages. Hardcover. $25

 

Shipping extra

 

Doug Boudakian

dboudrrtrain@...

 

 

 

FS: Digitrax Superchief DCC Starter Set, Brand New In The Box, $300.00 + Shipping

Arnold Rubin
 

Digitrax Superchief DCC Starter Set with the following components: DCS100 Command Station Booster; DT400 Throttle; UP5 Universal Panel; LT-1 Loconet Cable & Decoder Tester.

Still in original shipping carton as received from Tony's Train XChange a few years ago; never used.

Price: $300.00 + shipping; PayPal preferred

If interested, please contact me directly: arnoldrubin@...

 

Arnold Rubin

Basking Ridge, NJ 07920

Area Code: 908

FS HOn3 trucks PS & ?

Margie & Larry Galkowski
 

For Sale   What I believe to be Precision Scale HOn3 brass trucks  and HOn3 plastic trucks brand unknown
2  pr plastic trucks w/ brake inside  4'6"
5  pr unassembled brass trucks   4'6"
1  pr  brass partialy assembled  4'6"
2  pr brass assembled brakes removed  4'6"
1  pr brass assembled brakes removed  3'7"
1  pr brass partialy assembled  3'7"
2  odd ball trucks
Note  I did not do the assembly
asking $50.00 plus shipping USA only
Please check photos  ash any questions
I accept PayPal check or money order item will be held till it clears the bank
Thank you
Larry G

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Steve Hatch
 

  The easiest method I know of is to place a 2"x2"square of 1/8th inch ply or some-such
then drill a 1/16th hole down from the side of the turnout out through the 2x2 and bend it over.
This rod will throw your turnout back and forth as it swings from side to side under the
foam.  Any machine can be used to move the bent over wire back and forth.
  Personalty I use my own Railway Engineering machines.   You can get them with a switch stand
on the top to actually throw the turnout.   It's here:
powered switch stand

Steve Hatch

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Traintalk
 

Not sure how far the switch is from the edge of the layout, but here is an idea. Instead of having the switch machine below the switch, have it to the side.

I designed a layout where I used 2 inch foam, I carved a trench in the foam that went to the edge of the layout. I then inserted a brass tube and ran the switch wire through the tube. Right below the switch I bent the wire up at 90 degrees.

So visualize a wire running though the brass tube and coming out the side of the foam. If you pulled or pushed the wire it would throw the switch the back and forth. I then filled the trench in hiding the tube.

Then I had the Tortoise machine mounted at the edge of the layout lying down so the action of the Tortoise went side to side. The wire from the tube was attached to the Tortoise.

I even ran the power wires this way, everything was trenched and came out the side of the layout, this way I did not have to go under the layout.

I then hid everything with a facia that was 4 inches from the layout and had a removable cover for access. No crawling under the layout for me.

Bill B.

HOn3 Layout for sale

Brinton Jones
 

                                             Hon3 LAYOUT FOR SALE

San Francisco Bay area only. All or nothing, no parting out.

Everything on this list plus other stuff as I find it must go

You pick it up

12” X 8” Modular Layout 4 sections 2’ x 8’

DCC system included

DCC SYSTEM

DIGITRAX super Chief DCS 200, Radio UR92, 1 DT402D Radio throttle

PHOTOS OF LAYOUT IN Hon3 SITE UNDER Hon3 LAYOUT FOR SALE

 

 

BLACKSTONE LOCOMOTIVES

D&RGW NO 462 K27 2-8-2 Royal Gorge herald green boiler P.N. B310105

D&RGW NO 453 K27 2-8-2 Flying Rio Grande herald P.N. B310102

D&RGW NO 345 C19 2-8-0 Flying Rio Grande herald P.N. B310201-S

D&RG NO 345 C19 2-8-0 MOVIE SCHEME P.N. B310208-S ORANGE & SILVER

D&RGW NO 346 C19 2-8-0 Royal Gorge herald P.N. B31002W-S

 

 

CON COR GEESE

D&RG NO X-110 Tourist with Loksound decoder P.N. 4152

D&RGW NO X-105 MOW, Freight with Loksound decoder P.N. 4127

 

 

STOCK CARS

D&RGW 30’ STOCK CAR NO 5578 Flying Grande herald P.N.B34027

D&RGW 30’ STOCK CAR NO 5687 Flying Grande herald P.N.B3401W

D&RGW 30’ STOCK CAR NO 5669 Flying Grande herald P.N.B3408

D&RGW 30’ STOCK CAR NO 5722 Flying Grande herald P.N.B34013W

 

TANK CARS

UTLX Frameless tank car NO 55347 GRAMPS P.N.B340655

UTLX Frameless tank car NO 55190 GRAMPS P.N.B340654

UTLX Narrow frame tank car NO 12812 P.N.B340607

Narrow frame tank car NO 64 CYCX P.N.B340611

 

DROP BOTTOM GON

D&RGW 800 Series drop bottom gondola Flying Grande herald NO 800 P.N.340550

D&RGW 800 Series drop bottom gondola Flying Grande herald NO 899 P.N.340561

D&RGW 800 Series drop bottom gondola Flying Grande herald NO 872 P.N.340558

 

HIGH SIDE GON

D&RGW High side gondola weathered Flying Grande herald NO 1012 P.N. B340408W

D&RGW High side gondola weathered Flying Grande herald NO 1039 P.N. B340409W

D&RGW High side gondola weathered Flying Grande herald NO 9206 P.N. B340414W

D&RGW High side gondola weathered Moffat tunnel herald NO 9325 P.N. B340415

 

30’ BOX CARS

D&RGW 30’ Box car Moffat tunnel herald NO 3146 P.N. B340128

D&RGW 30’ Box car no herald NO. 3303 P.N. B340129

D&RGW 30’ Box car Flying Grade herald NO 3468 P.N. B34018 ORANGE CAR SILVER TOP

D&RGW 30’ Box car Flying Grade herald NO 3587 P.N. B340132

D&RGW 30’ Box car Flying Grade herald NO 3743 P.N. B340133

 

D&RGW 30’ REEFER

D&RGW 30’ Reefer Royal Gorge Rout herald NO 34 P.N. 340807

D&RGW 30’ Reefer Royal Gorge Rout herald NO 43 P.N. 340808     2 EA

D&RGW 30’ Reefer Royal Gorge Rout herald NO 65 P.N. 340804

 

D&RGW 30’ FLAT CAR

D&RGW 30’ Flat car Weathered D&RGW NO 6023 P.N.340307W

D&RGW 30’ Flat car Weathered D&RGW NO 6033 P.N.340308W

D&RGW 30’ Flat car Weathered D&RGW NO 6057 P.N.340310W   2EA

RGS 30’ Flat car Rio Grande Southern NO 0616 P.N.340316

 

LONG CABOOSE

D&RGW Long caboose Flying Grande herald NO 505 P.N. B340952

D&RGW Long caboose Flying Grande herald NO 0574 P.N. B340960

 

 

 

 

PASSENGER CARS

Silverton Painted Train 3 car set car NOs 280, 306,320 Orang & Silver

D&RGW Open platform coach Pullman green unlettered P.N. B350106

D&RGW Open platform coach Pullman green NO 285 P.N. B350108

D&RGW Open platform coach Pullman green NO 304 P.N. B350109

 

TRACK CLEANER

AZTEC Track cleaner White Pass & Yukon 30’ Composite underframe reefer Micro-Trains

AZTEC IS NO LONGER, CLOSED ON 12/7/18

 

CUSTOM BUILT CARS

 

RIO GRANDE MODELS

D&RGW Derrick OP and boom car 99% complete, boom car Blackstone 30’ flat No06063

D&RGW Flanger OD complete

 

MODEL RAILROAD GENERAL STORE

D&RGW Short RPO/BAGGAGE CAR NO 61-2-3 Complete Car no

 

Rail & Tie Car, Built on Blackstone 30’ Flat, Car No 06084

Wheel & Tie Car, Built on Blackstone 30’ Flat, Car No 06092

 

BRASS CARS

PFM D&RGW two car passenger Set Combine No 212 & Standard coach not painted

PFM D&RGW Pagosa Junction car Factory paint Car No 215

 

BUILDINGS

19 BUILDINGS

Walthers N scale DCC Turntable modified to Hon3

Roundhouse, 3 water tanks, 1 station, various others

Lots of loose goodies, people, trees, partial kits for bashing and parts

Peco track and various turnouts

Asking $5000.00 There is about $4000.00 in locos and rolling stock alone.

Re: HOn3 Layout for sale

hiroechan
 

Brinton, 

As four other folks tried to explain last month when you listed this, you've got some issues:

1): you won't part out the collection

2): your price is too high for the whole lot

3): You won't ship, pickup is required

But now add #4): you haven't sold it in the last month, so you're relisting it without even budging a dollar on your price. 

The more times you relist without adjusting your price, the odds that you'll find *anyone* willing to pop on it, drop drastically. You're basically wasting your own time at this point. 

 

--Drew McCann

 

 

Re: HOn3 Layout for sale

John
 

I echo that,
I had a small layout and equipment I tried to sell. I ended up giving the layout away for free and sold the equipment separately on eBay.
John Peckham 
Torrance, CA 


On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:05 AM, hiroechan
<hiroechan@...> wrote:

Brinton, 

As four other folks tried to explain last month when you listed this, you've got some issues:

1): you won't part out the collection

2): your price is too high for the whole lot

3): You won't ship, pickup is required

But now add #4): you haven't sold it in the last month, so you're relisting it without even budging a dollar on your price. 

The more times you relist without adjusting your price, the odds that you'll find *anyone* willing to pop on it, drop drastically. You're basically wasting your own time at this point. 

 

--Drew McCann

 

 

Re: HOn3 Layout for sale

hiroechan
 

John,

I do layout extractions for deceased modelers' estates in the midatlantic region, and routinely spend a fair bit of time having to explain this to the family, that their dad's/grandfather's collection isn't going to fetch 30% of what they expect. I encourage them to send all the rolling stock/brass to an auction house like Stoudt's, and then I try to salvage as much of the buildings and trackwork as possible while deconstructing the layout. Often, due to the piecemeal way the layouts are built, I end up having to take a hammer to lots of beautiful rock castings and complicated framing; and I end up with a pile of extracted turnouts/flextrack, a few boxes of buildings, and a dumpster full of lumber and plaster debris. (...And fifteen xerox boxes of all the stuff that won't sell well at auction: tools, paints, decals, half-finished projects, basket-case models, etc. Which take me months to go through and sort into the local club supplies.)

 

Brinton at least has the benefit of the layout being four modules that look like they could be separated; but there's no way he's going to fetch $1000 for the layout and dcc system, if the buyer is also required to take pay an additional full-MSRP of $4000 on all the rolling stock.


--Drew McCann

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Russ Norris
 

Sounds like a possible solution.  My question is why would you need a Tortoise at all?  Years ago we did something similar using choke cables.  I still have a box of unused cables.  They have a wire inside of a flexible tube.  On one end there is a plastic handle.  When you push the handle in and out, the wire on the other end goes back and forth.  I bet you can still find the things at yard sales or on eBay.  It's similar to what the Bluepoint motorless switch machines do.  The advantage is that the Bluepoint (as far as I can tell) have an actuator that snaps the wire one way or the other and keeps it there when you push/pull the cable.  

Russ Norris

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:38 AM Traintalk via Groups.Io <mail2archive=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Not sure how far the switch is from the edge of the layout, but here is an idea. Instead of having the switch machine below the switch, have it to the side.

I designed a layout where I used 2 inch foam, I carved a trench in the foam that went to the edge of the layout. I then inserted a brass tube and ran the switch wire through the tube. Right below the switch I bent the wire up at 90 degrees.

So visualize a wire running though the brass tube and coming out the side of the foam. If you pulled or pushed the wire it would throw the switch the back and forth. I then filled the trench in hiding the tube.

Then I had the Tortoise machine mounted at the edge of the layout lying down so the action of the Tortoise went side to side. The wire from the tube was attached to the Tortoise.

I even ran the power wires this way, everything was trenched and came out the side of the layout, this way I did not have to go under the layout.

I then hid everything with a facia that was 4 inches from the layout and had a removable cover for access. No crawling under the layout for me.

Bill B.

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Margie & Larry Galkowski
 

For hard to reach turnouts I use RC cables (similar to choke cables) they come with a plastic tube. I cut to length bend the wire on the end, insert into draw bar trench in the cable & fix it in place. I use manual ground throws to operate them.
Larry G

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Russ Norris
 

That's so simple.  I'm not a model  airplane person, so I forgot about RC cables.  Great idea about the ground throw.  Solves the problem of keeping the points tight against the stock rails.

Russ Norris

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 4:43 PM Margie & Larry Galkowski <margielarrygalkowski@...> wrote:
For hard to reach turnouts I use RC cables (similar to choke cables) they come with a plastic tube. I cut to length bend the wire on the end, insert into draw bar trench in the cable & fix it in place. I use manual ground throws to operate them.
Larry G

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

asandrini
 

To all that have responded, thank you for all the information. Larry, I am very familiar with wire and cable in plastic tubing. I had a model railroad and R/C plane shop for 35 years. I have been trying to figure out how to use cable to work with the Tortoise machines.

I want to use these machines, for two reasons: one, I have several of them from my old store's layout; and the second reason is that I need to power the frogs.

Figuring how to mount the turnout on the edge of the railroad should not present a problem. What concerns me, is that this turnout is in a narrow canyon between a helix and the wall. Just beyond the turnout the track goes through a portal and disappears. Not much space. 

I am going to see if I can install it on the benchwork inside the helix. Easy to get to and make adjustments. My concern is the ratio of movement from the Tortoise and the travel of the throwrod.

Possibly using light spring wire and making an "M" in the wire would be able to make up for the overthrow.

Al



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Margie & Larry Galkowski <margielarrygalkowski@...>
Date: 1/25/19 1:43 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

For hard to reach turnouts I use RC cables (similar to choke cables) they come with a plastic tube. I cut to length bend the wire on the end, insert into draw bar trench in the cable & fix it in place. I use manual ground throws to operate them.
Larry G

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Mike Van Hove
 

I use Caboose Industries Ground throws and Tam Valley Frog Juicers with great success.  Very easy to install, and most of the work is done on top as oppsed to getting under the layout, which my 80 year old back doesn’t enjoy.

Mike Van Hove


On Jan 25, 2019, at 4:06 PM, asandrini <asandrini@...> wrote:

To all that have responded, thank you for all the information. Larry, I am very familiar with wire and cable in plastic tubing. I had a model railroad and R/C plane shop for 35 years. I have been trying to figure out how to use cable to work with the Tortoise machines.

I want to use these machines, for two reasons: one, I have several of them from my old store's layout; and the second reason is that I need to power the frogs.

Figuring how to mount the turnout on the edge of the railroad should not present a problem. What concerns me, is that this turnout is in a narrow canyon between a helix and the wall. Just beyond the turnout the track goes through a portal and disappears. Not much space. 

I am going to see if I can install it on the benchwork inside the helix. Easy to get to and make adjustments. My concern is the ratio of movement from the Tortoise and the travel of the throwrod.

Possibly using light spring wire and making an "M" in the wire would be able to make up for the overthrow.

Al



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Margie & Larry Galkowski <margielarrygalkowski@...>
Date: 1/25/19 1:43 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

For hard to reach turnouts I use RC cables (similar to choke cables) they come with a plastic tube. I cut to length bend the wire on the end, insert into draw bar trench in the cable & fix it in place. I use manual ground throws to operate them.
Larry G

Re: Mounting Tortoise Machine through Foam

Jim Spencer
 

The Luan plywood is exactly what I preferred. I got mine from Home Depot. The thickness doesn’t seem to matter. 1/4”, 1/8”, all will work except the weight might matter. That’s why I prefer the door skin which is lighter than Masonite. 
Another thing: be sure and use a water base adhesive to bond the door skin to the foam. Solvent adhesives will dissolve the foam. When you apply it, you might weight to assembly with concrete blocks or something else heavy.
good luck.
Jim