Date   
Re: Getting brass painted

LARRY KLOSE
 

And now, the URL... https://sites.google.com/site/jimbrownsdrgw/home

--------------
Here’s Jim Brown’s website, which includes the K-36 painting web site. Lots of other good stuff, too!

Larry

Re: Getting brass painted

Mike Conder
 

Back in the '80's Jim Vail had a really good series of articles on painting brass, maybe 8 articles?  All but one or two were actually focused on getting the loco running right, with one or two in the actual painting.

Mike Conder

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 9:24 PM LARRY KLOSE <lklose@...> wrote:

I’ve painted 8 or 10 brass locos, both HO and Sn3.  It’s not that difficult.  Some disassembly is required but except for the big K’s the mechanics are very simple with care and a lot of documentation as disassembly is done.  Early on I painted most of mine with a Binks Wren B airbrush, a rather basic model.  I’m using a Badger 200 now, but the Binks does fine with practice.  My locos came out beautiful, earlier with Floquil, later with PBL Star Brand.   A couple of friends here in Tucson have done beautiful jobs with spray cans as has Steve Hatch, so it’s technique, not equipment, that rules the day.

 

Jim Brown and Bill Adkins on the Sn3 list did a piece in 2003 regarding painting a Brass K-36.  It’s one of the best demos on how to do it that I’ve seen.  A unique feature was how they did it without completely disassembling the mechanism.  I’m trying to get a link to Jim’s web site.  I have my own copy of the web page but without permission, I’m reluctant to post it—it’s copyrighted.  I don’t have the URL.  I’m seeking permission  and will post it if I get that.

 

Jim and Bill used Scalecoat paint, a very good product.  It works well with baking between coats and there’s some waiting for drying time.  There’s still a lot to learn from the article even if you use different paint, especially regarding preparation.  My personal preference is PBL Star Brand paints, which gives outstanding results with extremely thin coats that don’t fill detail and are quick drying.  It’s fast drying lacquer.  It does take some practice with thinning and using retarder to keep if from drying before it hits the model, with retarder especially important in dry conditions (like our frequent 5% RH days here in Arizona).  This is lacquer with volatile solvents so good ventilation, a good safety mask and careful handling is a must.  Star doesn’t like brushing unless a lot of retarder is used so I only brush touchup.  Lately I’ve used Vallejo and craft store acrylics for brush work on trim and other small areas because of the ease of use and cleanup.

 

To summarize: with a little practice it’s not that hard, so go for it.

 

Larry

Re: Getting brass painted

John Hutnick
 

Trying to paint an engine frame by turning the drivers while still assembled is sloppy workmanship, which I would never recommend.  This procedure results in many interior areas of the frame in partial or unpainted condition.  I do not want the rods and valve gear to be painted the same black as the frame.   

Re: CMX Products

John Stutz
 

My thanks to JES

The page he references is on the website at http://www.railnet.ch, which is well worth visiting.

John Stutz

On November 13, 2019 at 8:41 AM Labo44 <labo@...> wrote:

Hello !
Please see here: http://www.railnet.ch/documents/JES001347E.pdf
Sincerely, ~JES~

 

Re: decoder hook up wire

Robert Veefkind
 



In a message dated 11/14/2019 7:12:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, kc5lpa1@... writes:

Robert maybe I am misunderstanding what you wanted but you said "take a bend and not spring back". That to me suggests solid wire
thanks all for the helpful replies. I think in my case solid wire would be the best. But at one time I had # 30 stranded that kept a bend and would stay put while a dab of black plastic insulation dried to keep it in place      Bob V.

Re: decoder hook up wire

Brian Kopp
 

I forgot to mention that butt splicing wires together can give some folks consternation, and magnet wire to stranded wire is an example butt splice you might need with a DCC loco and tender. With some real railroad comms and signals in my background, I am a fan of the lineman splice, also known as the Western Union splice. It is a strong butt splice that is small in diameter (3 wire diameters). Google it and you will see it is easy to do. If you add a drop of solder  you can easily get away with about 2 wraps per side. Heat shrink the splice or coat with liquid electrical tape and you have a very small splice. For a harness with parallel splices, if you have the room, stagger the splices just enough so that all the splices are not together creating a harness that has one big bulge. It will be easier to feed the harness through tight spaces.

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Re: Getting brass painted

Stephen Silver
 

Larry I don't see the link.

S

Life is mostly attitude and timing


On Wednesday, November 13, 2019, 10:12:47 PM PST, LARRY KLOSE <lklose@...> wrote:


Here’s Jim Brown’s website, which includes the K-36 painting web site. Lots of other good stuff, too!

Larry


Re: decoder hook up wire

Brian Kopp
 

Robert maybe I am misunderstanding what you wanted but you said "take a bend and not spring back". That to me suggests solid wire. I and others use magnet wire for connecting LEDs. It is usually solid and comes in very small gauge. The coating comes off with sand paper or a hot air rework station. Some like to use a super hot iron to remove the coating but I am not a fan of that approach. With the magnet wire you can conform it to the inside of a shell and even tack it with a drop of caulk if you need too.

Using solid wire is ok within the loco or tender shell but don't run it between the loco and tender. Use the super flex wire others have mentioned for going between the loco and tender. The reason for this is the motion will fatigue and break most solid wire over time. And the break is hard to detect and will often cause intermittent operation.

Here is a cheap commercial source for 30 gauge magnet wire but ebay also sells it:
https://www.jameco.com/z/30MAG-75-30-AWG-Plain-Enamel-Magnet-Wire-75-Feet_2189863.html

I have also used magnet wire down to 36 gauge. It is great for working in headlights.....

There are some Youtube videos for doing SMD LEDs with magnet wire...........

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Re: Getting brass painted

LARRY KLOSE
 

Here’s Jim Brown’s website, which includes the K-36 painting web site. Lots of other good stuff, too!

Larry

Re: Getting brass painted

LARRY KLOSE
 

I’ve painted 8 or 10 brass locos, both HO and Sn3.  It’s not that difficult.  Some disassembly is required but except for the big K’s the mechanics are very simple with care and a lot of documentation as disassembly is done.  Early on I painted most of mine with a Binks Wren B airbrush, a rather basic model.  I’m using a Badger 200 now, but the Binks does fine with practice.  My locos came out beautiful, earlier with Floquil, later with PBL Star Brand.   A couple of friends here in Tucson have done beautiful jobs with spray cans as has Steve Hatch, so it’s technique, not equipment, that rules the day.

 

Jim Brown and Bill Adkins on the Sn3 list did a piece in 2003 regarding painting a Brass K-36.  It’s one of the best demos on how to do it that I’ve seen.  A unique feature was how they did it without completely disassembling the mechanism.  I’m trying to get a link to Jim’s web site.  I have my own copy of the web page but without permission, I’m reluctant to post it—it’s copyrighted.  I don’t have the URL.  I’m seeking permission  and will post it if I get that.

 

Jim and Bill used Scalecoat paint, a very good product.  It works well with baking between coats and there’s some waiting for drying time.  There’s still a lot to learn from the article even if you use different paint, especially regarding preparation.  My personal preference is PBL Star Brand paints, which gives outstanding results with extremely thin coats that don’t fill detail and are quick drying.  It’s fast drying lacquer.  It does take some practice with thinning and using retarder to keep if from drying before it hits the model, with retarder especially important in dry conditions (like our frequent 5% RH days here in Arizona).  This is lacquer with volatile solvents so good ventilation, a good safety mask and careful handling is a must.  Star doesn’t like brushing unless a lot of retarder is used so I only brush touchup.  Lately I’ve used Vallejo and craft store acrylics for brush work on trim and other small areas because of the ease of use and cleanup.

 

To summarize: with a little practice it’s not that hard, so go for it.

 

Larry

Re: Getting brass painted

Mark Kasprowicz
 
Edited

This is a Westside K37 right? Unless it is very unsual there are just three screws holding the body and frame together. Two under the cab floor at the rear and one going in from underneath at the front - I think you may have to remove the front truck to get to it or it may swing enough to one side to access it.  The tender has four crews underneath.
Now some people go further and strip out the wheels and running gear from the loco, I do but it's not necessary. If you connect the loco to a power source via the frame and drawbar and start the wheels rotating you will be able to spray paint the frame through the wheel using an airbrush. You need to mask off the bits you do not want to paint like the gears, motor and wheel treads with tape and detail with Maskol and you need to keep an eye on how much paint is going on the wheel and motion but you'll end up with a good finish. For detail work Tamiya tape is much better than the stuff you get from the hardware store which can be used for more general masking (together with a generous supply of newspapers.)  If you need to cut thinner strips from masking tape stick it down on glass and then cut in the normal way. I know of pro painters who use this technique and never strip the loco down.

Mark K
Oxford England

Re: decoder hook up wire

Mark Rosche
 

love that tip...just picked up a box of old “mice” (35 in total) on ebay for $2 w/free shipping 👍🏻

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

Re: decoder hook up wire

Bob Burgoyne
 

Here's an idea:
Check your junk box for an old fashioned corded "Mouse". Clip the cord and strip the sheathing. Surprising flexibility and quality. Some have found retired "Mouses" at second hand stores.

Boomer Bob

Re: decoder hook up wire

Stephen Silver
 

I bought a box of 6 rolls (I think there is 30ft per roll) of 32g 6 different colors on amazon, works great and it was inexpensive.

S

Life is mostly attitude and timing


On Wednesday, November 13, 2019, 04:55:55 PM PST, LARRY KLOSE <lklose@...> wrote:


Soundtraxx and other decoder manufacturers sell decoder wire—usually 32-33 gauge, depending on the provider.  #22 might be good for  F or G scale 45mm gauge trains.  A good retail electronics seller would have small gauge, too.  Check the Soundtraxx or TCS web sites for recommended wire gauges.  NCE is another provider that sells it.  I got multiple colors of NCE at a local hobby shop in Roseville CA when I visited some time ago. Each color in a separate package, there’s enough to do many locos in each package.

 

Larry

Re: decoder hook up wire

LARRY KLOSE
 

Soundtraxx and other decoder manufacturers sell decoder wire—usually 32-33 gauge, depending on the provider.  #22 might be good for  F or G scale 45mm gauge trains.  A good retail electronics seller would have small gauge, too.  Check the Soundtraxx or TCS web sites for recommended wire gauges.  NCE is another provider that sells it.  I got multiple colors of NCE at a local hobby shop in Roseville CA when I visited some time ago. Each color in a separate package, there’s enough to do many locos in each package.

 

Larry

Re: Getting brass painted

Doug Cummings
 

I don't know what the problem here is but I model in HO/HOn3 and have had many of my brass models painted. 

Doug




Hi,
I can fully appreciate your thinking this would be a daunting task...I had reservations about disassembling a “well working” brass loco to paint it...I model in Sn3 where the costs are higher than in HOn3...at the end of the day, it is all about building your confidence in yourself and your modeling abilities...before I tackled my first locomotive, I purchased some “cheaper”, “older” models on which to practice and hone my skills before embarking on the brass locomotive...my conscience did not feel so bad when I “messed up” something on a $30 model vs how I would of felt when I “messed up” on a $800 locomotive...it is like everything in life; practice, practice, practice...  

The only way to truly learn something is to make mistakes and correct them so you know what to avoid in the future...no one is perfect on the first try \uD83D\uDE01

Regards,

Mark

Re: Getting brass painted

Mark Rosche
 

Hi,

I can fully appreciate your thinking this would be a daunting task...I had reservations about disassembling a “well working” brass loco to paint it...I model in Sn3 where the costs are higher than in HOn3...at the end of the day, it is all about building your confidence in yourself and your modeling abilities...before I tackled my first locomotive, I purchased some “cheaper”, “older” models on which to practice and hone my skills before embarking on the brass locomotive...my conscience did not feel so bad when I “messed up” something on a $30 model vs how I would of felt when I “messed up” on a $800 locomotive...it is like everything in life; practice, practice, practice...  

The only way to truly learn something is to make mistakes and correct them so you know what to avoid in the future...no one is perfect on the first try 😁

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

Re: Getting brass painted

Stephen Silver
 

You are right on.  I am not planning on doing the electronics install but now, I think the approach may be to get the electronics installed and then wait until I have had a chance to refine things.  What concerns me most is the disassembly and reassembly.  Doing a video is good, know the tricks from rebuilding many auto motors.  But I can say I am not particularly handy when it comes to mechanics so even if I can deliver some decent paint results, the R&R is daunting to me.

S

Life is mostly attitude and timing


On Wednesday, November 13, 2019, 12:05:47 PM PST, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:


Even simple non sound installs involve some drilling. Lights are, I suppose, the obvious example. If it's painted then you've got a real danger of chips and scratches through handling. So do the install, then take out what cannot be easily masked and paint it. Then put it all back together.
I don't know if you'vr ever watched 'Monday Morning Express'. They had a guy on there a while back who did a paint and weather job and charged $1000! My wallet o I agree with Russ about painting your own. I have painted all of my locos and stock for 20 years.
There are three secrets to painting. Preparation (cleaning, perhaps stripping) masking and using the airbrush correctly. There are plenty of how-to videos on YouTube etc but practice on scrap materials before going for the big one. Get a good double action airbrush. I use Badgers.
If it all goes wrong (and sometimes it just does) there's always laquer thinners that will strip the paint off to the raw brass in less time than it takes to write an Email like this.

The main message is with a bit of good advice and practive, painting is not that difficult.

Mark K
Oxon England.

Re: decoder hook up wire

Mark Kasprowicz
 

I use all black, that way it doesn't show. But I identify each wire by dipping the end into cheqp quick drying paint. The 99c pots from Walfphart are ideal.

Mark K
Oxon England.

Re: Getting brass painted

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Even simple non sound installs involve some drilling. Lights are, I suppose, the obvious example. If it's painted then you've got a real danger of chips and scratches through handling. So do the install, then take out what cannot be easily masked and paint it. Then put it all back together.
I don't know if you'vr ever watched 'Monday Morning Express'. They had a guy on there a while back who did a paint and weather job and charged $1000! My wallet o I agree with Russ about painting your own. I have painted all of my locos and stock for 20 years.
There are three secrets to painting. Preparation (cleaning, perhaps stripping) masking and using the airbrush correctly. There are plenty of how-to videos on YouTube etc but practice on scrap materials before going for the big one. Get a good double action airbrush. I use Badgers.
If it all goes wrong (and sometimes it just does) there's always laquer thinners that will strip the paint off to the raw brass in less time than it takes to write an Email like this.

The main message is with a bit of good advice and practive, painting is not that difficult.

Mark K
Oxon England.