Date   

Re: Key c-18 # 316

Mick Moignard
 

To open the tender: get a scalpel #11 blade and run back and forth down the joint where the sides reach the floor; the solder joint is only just strong enough to keep the tender body on.  It will soon break open.  You will need to cut the pipes at the front left side, do it below the tender floor and with a sharp set of cutters to minimise the damage and crushing of the wire.  You should then be able to get the tender body off.  This goes for all second-run Key C-18s, 315, 317, 318 and 319.  

To hold the tender body back on when you're done, first file a small slot about 5mm wide and about 15thou deep on the bottom edge of the rear of the coal space, where it touches the floor. Get a piece of 10 thou brass 15mm or so long and 5mm wide, bend it across the middle. Solder it to the tank side of the coal space rear sheet with the bent piece in the slot you just made and be sure it is not below the bottom edge of the coal sheet.  .  Then drill a 1.2mm hole in the middle of this tab that now sticks out into the coal space.   Place the tender body back on the frame, line it up and mark through that hole into the floor (it's so that you can do this that you put the tab facing in to the coal space).  Drill that 1.4mm. Get an M1.4 tap and tap the hole in the tab you've added to the coal space. Put body back on frame, invert, add M1.4 screw into the hole and tighten.     I suggest that you buy a number of black M1.4 crosspoint screws with about 3mm or 4 of thread.  Use one for this fastening and then use the others to replace the crappy brass slot screws in the loco. Key/Samhongsa brass screws have a habit of snapping off when you try and unscrew them, or of half the head breaking off or the heads just chewing up, ecause they're actually made of hardened butter.  You'll also find that crosspoint screws are so, so much easier to manage than are slots.

You can then hide your new bracket with the coal load - do place that on a slope of plasticard inside the coal space and not directly on the screw and the tender floor so that you can still remove that screw and get the body off should you ever need to.  

Next question you'll ask is how to get the body off the frame, so I'll tell you that one as well. It's the most convoluted disassembly I've ever come across; and it will generate some swearing. .
  • Remove the two screws holding the rear dragbeam to the underside of the cab floor and remove the cab rear panel along with the dragbeam.   Plan to replace these screws with crosspoints.   Occasionally the cab rear is attached to the cab, don't force the issue if it is.
  • Remove the cab; four countersunk screws under the cab and slide it backwards then upwards. These tend to be crosspoints already. Keep them separate as they're the only countersunk ones in the loco.
  • Remove the brake gear.  Two screws you can replace with steel crosspoints.
  • Remove the gear box cover, two more screws to replace on reassembly.  
  • Push the gearbox upwards into the boiler. You won't get the boiler off if you don't do this.
  • Pull the chassis backwards out of the boiler; be aware of the injector water feed and drain pipes under the cab snagging on bits of frame as you do it.  While you have it apart, toss the Sagami motor and replace with something else (mine and Mark K's all have Mashimas).  The Sagami motor will not start cleanly with any decoder I've come across - or indeed on DC.  It's Ok above step 5 (of 128), but not at the steps between 0 and 5.

Assembly is basically the reverse, with care and some more swearing.  This disassembly process is also found in the PSC/Samhongsa T-19 locos (RGS 20).

Mick
______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
The week may start M,T but it always ends up WTF!


Re: did anybody make their own truck journal tuning tool?

Mark Kasprowicz
 

I too had thought of shortening the HO version so I'd be interested to know if it is feasible.

Mark K
Oxon England.


Re: Key c-18 # 316

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Often a brass tender body has a sub frame soldered to it. It fits inside the base of the tender body and is soldered to the walls. It is fixed at four corners to the tender frame with screws. Others like the Westside SPNG's have two braces across the body about a third in from either end. Fixing is with just two central screws. These are a pain when adding sound*.

The Key C-18 first run 315, 316, and 319 and second run 318 had the tender body lightly soldered to the frame and I believe it was a short cut because there's nothing inside those tnders that I can see that prevents either form of conventional attachement. (The first run 318 tender was held together by three screws, two into the water legs and a central one.

I asked Mick Moignard to convert my four, 315, 316, 318 and 319, to DCC sound because they were all factory painted and frankly he's more skilled than me in cases like this.

But I won't steal Micks thunder...

Mark K
Oxon England.

*(With Westside SPNG's I screwed the top and bottom tender halves together, drilled two holes per brace, one at each side, opened out the frame holes and taped the ones in the body then cut the unwanted centers of the cross braces away. This let me install DCC & sound without the wiring nightmare that the braces created.)


Re: Key c-18 # 316

Lawrence Wisniewski <lwreno@...>
 

Unfortunately, second run Key C-18's all had their tender tanks solder to their frames.  The builder apparently couldn't figure out how to construct a totally scale small tender with adequate internal bracing to allow the usual screw mounted underframe.  I don't know if anyone has figured out how to put sound in these engines.  Perhaps there  might be enough room in the coal bunker for the necessary electronics covered by a thin false floor to provide for a covering of coal.  The cab is pretty full, but as I recall, there is some room in the front end of the boiler.  Good luck.


-----Original Message-----
From: Climax@...
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Sat, Sep 26, 2020 6:53 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Key c-18 # 316

See there you go. assuming the holes were to let the sound out.  Its to let the sound in!

Mule

-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Veefkind via groups.io"
Sent: Sep 26, 2020 4:51 PM
To: hon3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Key c-18 # 316


This fine model is drilled for sound but I don't see a way to take the tender apart. Are my eyes that bad ?


Re: Key c-18 # 316

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Mick Moignard has done a few of these very successfully - he'll chip in soon I'm sure.

Mark K
Oxon England.


Re: did anybody make their own truck journal tuning tool?

lloyd lehrer
 

Thanks Ric, I sent a message to reboxx, the vendor that sold my Broad gauge Model T-100 one.  I was mostly interested in whether the point angle is different.  the length from point to back rounded end would vary depending on the truck.  Kadee axles are different from my standard of  Blackstone and the original MDC ones
.
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 5:16 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Lloyd I have one that was made by the manufacturer years ago!
A friend had them produced after discussion at one of the national conventions. Unfortunately I have lost my spares to loaning out and not getting them back!
A few of them were lost due to deaths! Kids dispersed
 of modeling tools with out asking their modeling friends! 
I can post pictures of both standard and broad gauge. 

I will need to go up stairs later and retrieve the digital calipers! 
Then I will post the statistics! If you want!

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:01 PM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:


if so What did you use and what if your success like when using it.  I am thinking of cutting down a micromark one from SG to NG
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Re: did anybody make their own truck journal tuning tool?

Ric Case
 

Lloyd I have one that was made by the manufacturer years ago!
A friend had them produced after discussion at one of the national conventions. Unfortunately I have lost my spares to loaning out and not getting them back!
A few of them were lost due to deaths! Kids dispersed
 of modeling tools with out asking their modeling friends! 
I can post pictures of both standard and broad gauge. 

I will need to go up stairs later and retrieve the digital calipers! 
Then I will post the statistics! If you want!

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:01 PM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:


if so What did you use and what if your success like when using it.  I am thinking of cutting down a micromark one from SG to NG
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


did anybody make their own truck journal tuning tool?

lloyd lehrer
 

if so What did you use and what if your success like when using it.  I am thinking of cutting down a micromark one from SG to NG
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


Re: Key c-18 # 316

Climax@...
 

See there you go. assuming the holes were to let the sound out.  Its to let the sound in!

Mule

-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Veefkind via groups.io"
Sent: Sep 26, 2020 4:51 PM
To: hon3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Key c-18 # 316


This fine model is drilled for sound but I don't see a way to take the tender apart. Are my eyes that bad ?


Re: Key c-18 # 316

Richard Johnson
 

Nope, the tenders are soldered and factory painted. 
A big oops by the MFG.
Good luck with it.
Regards all
Rich Johnson

www.RichardSJohnson.net 

"Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it."


"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms"
Thomas Jefferson




From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 1:51 PM
To: hon3@groups.io <hon3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Key c-18 # 316
 

This fine model is drilled for sound but I don't see a way to take the tender apart. Are my eyes that bad ?


Key c-18 # 316

Robert Veefkind
 


This fine model is drilled for sound but I don't see a way to take the tender apart. Are my eyes that bad ?


Re: BLACKSTONE C-19s FOR SALE

Ed Stauffer
 

Interested in EITHER the 343 OR the 346. Email sent.

Ed


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Brian Kopp
 

Will definitely be trying that trick....got to go find my Kadee 1-72 tap set now....
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Bruce
 

Kinda what we/I  thought, just needed you to confirm.  GREAT idea!

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce Bowie
419-602-3584
in2trains@...

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 5:20 PM Bill Miller via groups.io <ebteng18=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
You are not taping the bearing for a 1-72 screw , you are cleaning out the bearing hole.  There is material from the printing process fowling the bearing surface in the side-frames that once removed allows for a smooth rolling truck. The end of a 1-72 tap works well.

 Bill Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Bill Miller,

I'm with Bruce and Bill....please explain!

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Mark Lewis
 

Thanks, Bill.

Mark Lewis 

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 5:20 PM Bill Miller via groups.io <ebteng18=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
You are not taping the bearing for a 1-72 screw , you are cleaning out the bearing hole.  There is material from the printing process fowling the bearing surface in the side-frames that once removed allows for a smooth rolling truck. The end of a 1-72 tap works well.

 Bill Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Bill Miller,

I'm with Bruce and Bill....please explain!

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Bill Miller
 

You are not taping the bearing for a 1-72 screw , you are cleaning out the bearing hole.  There is material from the printing process fowling the bearing surface in the side-frames that once removed allows for a smooth rolling truck. The end of a 1-72 tap works well.

 Bill Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Bill Miller,

I'm with Bruce and Bill....please explain!

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Mark Lewis
 

Bill Miller,

I'm with Bruce and Bill....please explain!

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Bruce
 

I'm with Bill.  A tap?  Who (obviously Bill Miller!) would have thought of it?


With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce Bowie 
419-602-3584 cell



On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 4:09 PM Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
That was unexpected.  :o)  I assume the taper on the end of the tap
matches that of the bearing holes?


Thanks
Bill Lugg


On 9/25/20 12:26 PM, Bill Miller via groups.io wrote:
> With a 1-72 tap.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Lugg <luggw1@...>
> To: HOn3@groups.io
> Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 2:06 pm
> Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?
>
> How do you smooth out the holes on these trucks?
>
> Thanks
> Bill Lugg
>
>
> On 9/25/20 11:50 AM, Bill Miller via groups.io wrote:
> > I have a number of Western-Rails models and most have their trucks
> > under them.  Their trucks are very well detailed but the early ones
> > done by Shapeways in FUD (Fine Ultra Detail) white plastic were very
> > brittle and easy to break while installing the wheel sets until you
> > learned the tricks to getting them in the side frames . Later W-Rs/
> > Shapeways increased the thickness which helped
> >
> > A New gray material is used on the newest trucks which is much more
> > forgiving. Western Rails trucks don't roll as freely as Blackstone's /
> > Micro Trains, with out some work but they do run true which is a great
> > help keeping them on the track. You need to smooth out the bearing
> > holes for free rolling trucks. Just part of the printing process that
> > the bearing holes are not smooth off the printer.
> >
> > I have a number of their EBT Boxcars and hoppers (a early 800 series 2
> > bay hopper and a four bay hopper)  The cars are much like the old C&BT
> > shops kits of the three bay hoppers.  Not all the detail parts are in
> > the box and you will need to buy brake gear to add to the car. Think
> > Tichy split K type.
> >
> > Western-Rails has EBT, C&S, SPNG, D&RGW and ET&WNC rolling stock
> > available on their web-site.
> >
> >  Narrow Gauge Unlimited on Shapeways also has some EBT cars as well as
> > D&RGW and C&S.
> >
> >  I am very pleased with what I have purchased 3-D printed from all the
> > vendors who do HO Narrow Gauge 3-D prints
> >
> >  Bill Miller..............
> >
> >
> > From: Bruce <in2trains@... <mailto:in2trains@...>>
> > To: HOn3@groups.io <mailto:HOn3@groups.io>
> > Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 8:11 am
> > Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?
> >
> > any trucksRuss,
> >
> > If you, or another group member, buys any Western Rails trucks please
> > let the group know your thoughts on their rolling quality and level of
> > detail.
> >
> > With cinders in your eyes,
> > Bruce Bowie
> > 419-602-3584
> > in2trains@... <mailto:in2trains@...>
> <mailto:in2trains@... <mailto:in2trains@...>>
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 6:21 AM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...
> <mailto:rbnorrisjr@...>
> > <mailto:rbnorrisjr@... <mailto:rbnorrisjr@...>>> wrote:
> >
> >    Thanks Bruce.  I already have some of their printed rolling
> >    stock.  I didn't know they did trucks as well.  And $12 is
> >    comparable to the Blackstones.  I will have to check them out.
> >
> >    Russ
> >
> >
> >
> >    On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 11:08 PM Bruce Dunlevy
> <bdunlevy@... <mailto:bdunlevy@...>
> >    <mailto:bdunlevy@... <mailto:bdunlevy@...>>> wrote:
> >
> >        Russ,
> >
> >        You might try Western Rails.  They 3D print Vulcan trucks.
> >        They can supply Kadee wheelsets for a total of $12 a pair.
> >        They also have a new 3D printed EBT hopper in seven variations.
> >
> > https://westernrails.com/product/tr03/
> > https://westernrails.com/product/hc05/
> >        Bruce Dunlevy
> >>
> >>
> >
> >    --
> >    Russ Norris, MMR
> >    Cape Cod, Massachusetts
> > http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Bill Lugg
 

That was unexpected.  :o)  I assume the taper on the end of the tap matches that of the bearing holes?


Thanks
Bill Lugg

On 9/25/20 12:26 PM, Bill Miller via groups.io wrote:
With a 1-72 tap.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Lugg <luggw1@risebroadband.net>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 2:06 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

How do you smooth out the holes on these trucks?

Thanks
Bill Lugg


On 9/25/20 11:50 AM, Bill Miller via groups.io wrote:
I have a number of Western-Rails models and most have their trucks
under them.  Their trucks are very well detailed but the early ones
done by Shapeways in FUD (Fine Ultra Detail) white plastic were very
brittle and easy to break while installing the wheel sets until you
learned the tricks to getting them in the side frames . Later W-Rs/
Shapeways increased the thickness which helped

A New gray material is used on the newest trucks which is much more
forgiving. Western Rails trucks don't roll as freely as Blackstone's /
Micro Trains, with out some work but they do run true which is a great
help keeping them on the track. You need to smooth out the bearing
holes for free rolling trucks. Just part of the printing process that
the bearing holes are not smooth off the printer.

I have a number of their EBT Boxcars and hoppers (a early 800 series 2
bay hopper and a four bay hopper)  The cars are much like the old C&BT
shops kits of the three bay hoppers.  Not all the detail parts are in
the box and you will need to buy brake gear to add to the car. Think
Tichy split K type.

Western-Rails has EBT, C&S, SPNG, D&RGW and ET&WNC rolling stock
available on their web-site.

 Narrow Gauge Unlimited on Shapeways also has some EBT cars as well as
D&RGW and C&S.

 I am very pleased with what I have purchased 3-D printed from all the
vendors who do HO Narrow Gauge 3-D prints

 Bill Miller..............


From: Bruce <in2trains@gmail.com <mailto:in2trains@gmail.com>>
To: HOn3@groups.io <mailto:HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 8:11 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

any trucksRuss,

If you, or another group member, buys any Western Rails trucks please
let the group know your thoughts on their rolling quality and level of
detail.

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce Bowie
419-602-3584
in2trains@gmail.com <mailto:in2trains@gmail.com>
<mailto:in2trains@gmail.com <mailto:in2trains@gmail.com>>

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 6:21 AM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@gmail.com
<mailto:rbnorrisjr@gmail.com>
<mailto:rbnorrisjr@gmail.com <mailto:rbnorrisjr@gmail.com>>> wrote:

    Thanks Bruce.  I already have some of their printed rolling
    stock.  I didn't know they did trucks as well.  And $12 is
    comparable to the Blackstones.  I will have to check them out.

    Russ



    On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 11:08 PM Bruce Dunlevy
<bdunlevy@comcast.net <mailto:bdunlevy@comcast.net>
    <mailto:bdunlevy@comcast.net <mailto:bdunlevy@comcast.net>>> wrote:

        Russ,

        You might try Western Rails.  They 3D print Vulcan trucks.
        They can supply Kadee wheelsets for a total of $12 a pair.
        They also have a new 3D printed EBT hopper in seven variations.

https://westernrails.com/product/tr03/
https://westernrails.com/product/hc05/
        Bruce Dunlevy

    --
    Russ Norris, MMR
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/





Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Bill Miller
 

With a 1-72 tap.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Lugg <luggw1@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 2:06 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

How do you smooth out the holes on these trucks?

Thanks
Bill Lugg


On 9/25/20 11:50 AM, Bill Miller via groups.io wrote:
> I have a number of Western-Rails models and most have their trucks
> under them.  Their trucks are very well detailed but the early ones
> done by Shapeways in FUD (Fine Ultra Detail) white plastic were very
> brittle and easy to break while installing the wheel sets until you
> learned the tricks to getting them in the side frames . Later W-Rs/
> Shapeways increased the thickness which helped
>
> A New gray material is used on the newest trucks which is much more
> forgiving. Western Rails trucks don't roll as freely as Blackstone's /
> Micro Trains, with out some work but they do run true which is a great
> help keeping them on the track. You need to smooth out the bearing
> holes for free rolling trucks. Just part of the printing process that
> the bearing holes are not smooth off the printer.
>
> I have a number of their EBT Boxcars and hoppers (a early 800 series 2
> bay hopper and a four bay hopper)  The cars are much like the old C&BT
> shops kits of the three bay hoppers.  Not all the detail parts are in
> the box and you will need to buy brake gear to add to the car. Think
> Tichy split K type.
>
> Western-Rails has EBT, C&S, SPNG, D&RGW and ET&WNC rolling stock
> available on their web-site.
>
>  Narrow Gauge Unlimited on Shapeways also has some EBT cars as well as
> D&RGW and C&S.
>
>  I am very pleased with what I have purchased 3-D printed from all the
> vendors who do HO Narrow Gauge 3-D prints
>
>  Bill Miller..............
>
>
> From: Bruce <in2trains@...>
> To: HOn3@groups.io
> Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 8:11 am
> Subject: Re: [HOn3] Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?
>
> any trucksRuss,
>
> If you, or another group member, buys any Western Rails trucks please
> let the group know your thoughts on their rolling quality and level of
> detail.
>
> With cinders in your eyes,
> Bruce Bowie
> 419-602-3584
> in2trains@... <mailto:in2trains@...>
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 6:21 AM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...
> <mailto:rbnorrisjr@...>> wrote:
>
>    Thanks Bruce.  I already have some of their printed rolling
>    stock.  I didn't know they did trucks as well.  And $12 is
>    comparable to the Blackstones.  I will have to check them out.
>
>    Russ
>
>
>
>    On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 11:08 PM Bruce Dunlevy <bdunlevy@...
>    <mailto:bdunlevy@...>> wrote:
>
>        Russ,
>
>        You might try Western Rails.  They 3D print Vulcan trucks. 
>        They can supply Kadee wheelsets for a total of $12 a pair. 
>        They also have a new 3D printed EBT hopper in seven variations.
>
>        https://westernrails.com/product/tr03/
>        https://westernrails.com/product/hc05/
>        Bruce Dunlevy
>>
>>
>
>    --
>    Russ Norris, MMR
>    Cape Cod, Massachusetts
>    http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/
>
>




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