Date   
Re: San Juan

Mike Mackey
 

Thanks guys! I guess I just overlooked it. Sorry. 

Mike “Rustler” Mackey 

On Mar 3, 2020, at 9:50 AM, Don Peterson via Groups.Io <sagenut3@...> wrote:


Mike,
From the bottom of their webpage 303-913-1601

Don Peterson
On Tuesday, March 3, 2020, 08:20:55 AM MST, Mike Mackey via Groups.Io <railroadguy1957@...> wrote:


I’m trying to call San Juan. Can anyone give me their number. I can’t seem to find it on their website.

Thanks

Mike “Rustler” Mackey



Re: San Juan

Don Peterson
 

Mike,
From the bottom of their webpage 303-913-1601

Don Peterson

On Tuesday, March 3, 2020, 08:20:55 AM MST, Mike Mackey via Groups.Io <railroadguy1957@...> wrote:


I’m trying to call San Juan. Can anyone give me their number. I can’t seem to find it on their website.

Thanks

Mike “Rustler” Mackey



San Juan

Mike Mackey
 

I’m trying to call San Juan. Can anyone give me their number. I can’t seem to find it on their website.

Thanks

Mike “Rustler” Mackey

40th NNGC Update

Peter Smith
 

Greetings,

We will be allocating space to various modular groups in the next few weeks. If you or your group intend to bring a modular layout to the St. Louis convention and haven’t as yet contacted our man in charge of modular layouts, I encourage you to do so soon. He is Brian Post, Tel. 314.249.6986 or 40thnngc@.... Thanks.

See you in St. Louie.

Peter Smith
Co-Chairman, 40NNGC

Re: PSC tank car kits

Dale Buxton
 

I have two friends that have actual UTLX documentation that says the frameless cars were prepared in California for narrow gauge service with 2 sets of trucks. One set standard gauge and one narrow gauge. All of them arrived in Alamosa on standard gauge trucks. Some of these cars were sent to Mexico for service on a standard gauge line for service for a breif period of time before goint on to Alamosa. In the mid thirties a few of the cars were put back on their standard gauge trucks and served in a Wyoming oil field for a single summer and then sent back to Alamosa to go back into narrow gauge service. 

So yes, there was nothing about these cars that prevented them from working in standard or narrow gauge service. And they in fact were switched back and forth between the two services a few times.

On a side note to this. According to my two sources. UTLX Prepared a group of 6500 gal. frameless tank cars for narrow gauge service in Mexico a few years before it prepared the narrow frame cars for service in Colorado. So UTLX already knew that the frameless Vandyke cars had the structural integrity work the three foot lines without a frame under them. 

Which begs the question, Why did UTLX feel the need to put the narrow frames under the first and second groups of cars and not the third?

We will probably never know the answer.

There is also documentation between UTLX and the Rio Grande that states that UTLX complained to the D&RGW that the Andrews trucks taken from the 34ft. stock cars were not substantial enough in design to ride under the frameless cars reliably. That a heavier truck was needed. UTLX went as far as to threaten legal action to this end. Eventually the D&RGW paid to have the heavier cast trucks made.

As another side note to this. The 34ft. stock cars were stored out of service on blocks for more than a year until the Andrews trucks could be returned to them.

Some interesting tales developed around the tank cars on the D&RGW narrow gauge thats for sure.

Dale B.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 8:37 PM Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:
John, thank you for the info. The kit contained a History In Brief which noted: “1,700 Vandyke class V 6,500 gallon frameless tank cars were built during the years 1908, 09, 10, 11, & 12. These cars were numbered 14300 through 15900.“ [suggesting that there were 1,600 cars built]
It goes on to say: “By 1953 only a few cars remained in service due to retirement or a law prohibiting KD brake systems in interchange service. Those cars still in service were either converted to AB brake systems or were used in local and MofW service.”
I suspect the narrow gauge kit instructions would have an accounting of the number that were converted for use on the narrow gauge Rio Grande and RGS.

Per your reference to the 5’-2” standard gauge arch bar trucks, another source is Central Valley. Those appear to be the same as you describe. However as you note, they were used on 10,000 gallon cars. 6,500 gallon cars may have used a different, presumably smaller capacity standard gauge truck.

Interestingly, I also have some Central Valley narrow gauge arch bar trucks. The side frame castings are identical to their standard gauge side frames. All they did was use a different bolster and smaller diameter wheels!
Jim

On Feb 29, 2020, at 7:13 PM, john.stutz@... wrote:

 Jim

In the 1906 Car builder's Dictionary (CBD), reprinted circa 1980 by Glenwood and available online, figure 88 (photo) and figures 489-91 (drawings) depict the 10,000 gallon version of the Van Dyke frame-less tank car. . This shows a 5' 2" WB archbar truck with inside hung brakes. the bottom bar is level and the top bar slopes down to the axle box tops. The same drawing with some extra detail appeared in The Railroad Gzaette, Vol XXXV, No 10, p164 & 165, on March 6 1903.

The illustrated truck's side frame is very like the old Central Valley HOn3 truck. Of current offerings, the Tahoe Model Works #211 arch bar truck is probably the closest available match. But note that the Kadee Bettendorf T-section truck is very similar to the version illustrated in the 1906 CBD, figures 1356-60, which was placed on the market circa 1903.

Regarding NG/SG differences, the narrow gauge Van Dyke (Gramps) cars were just obsolescent standard gauge 6500 gallon tank cars. The main differences were substitution of NG trucks with lowered center plate to lower the couplers 8", new NG spaced side bearing pads welded to the bolsters, and slightly rearranged brake rigging to clear the wheels. The White Pass also operated 5 Van Dyes, 3 of the standard small 6500 gallon version and 2 that had 3 compartments. They bought bare tanks, but built their own trucks, and also lowered the running boards about a foot.

John Stutz

On February 20, 2020 at 2:04 PM Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

I have built a dozen or more of the PSC HOn3 kits and have one of the standard gauge unbuilt kits.  I could see no difference whatsoever between the two. My standard gauge kit came with set of plastic wheels, but no side frames.  The instructions recommend an Athearn truck or a Kadee 500 series truck, which is a cast steel Bettendorf design that came much later than when the cars were built in about 1909. 

I suspect the 1909 cars were  delivered with standard gauge arch bar trucks, possibly later converted to Andrews designs.  But I have no photos, general arrangement drawings, or folio drawings to confirm.  I suspect that screwing on a standard gauge truck will raise the car height to the standard gauge coupler height.  But again, I have no confirming information.
Jim

 

Re: PSC tank car kits

Jim Spencer
 

John, thank you for the info. The kit contained a History In Brief which noted: “1,700 Vandyke class V 6,500 gallon frameless tank cars were built during the years 1908, 09, 10, 11, & 12. These cars were numbered 14300 through 15900.“ [suggesting that there were 1,600 cars built]
It goes on to say: “By 1953 only a few cars remained in service due to retirement or a law prohibiting KD brake systems in interchange service. Those cars still in service were either converted to AB brake systems or were used in local and MofW service.”
I suspect the narrow gauge kit instructions would have an accounting of the number that were converted for use on the narrow gauge Rio Grande and RGS.

Per your reference to the 5’-2” standard gauge arch bar trucks, another source is Central Valley. Those appear to be the same as you describe. However as you note, they were used on 10,000 gallon cars. 6,500 gallon cars may have used a different, presumably smaller capacity standard gauge truck.

Interestingly, I also have some Central Valley narrow gauge arch bar trucks. The side frame castings are identical to their standard gauge side frames. All they did was use a different bolster and smaller diameter wheels!
Jim

On Feb 29, 2020, at 7:13 PM, john.stutz@... wrote:

 Jim

In the 1906 Car builder's Dictionary (CBD), reprinted circa 1980 by Glenwood and available online, figure 88 (photo) and figures 489-91 (drawings) depict the 10,000 gallon version of the Van Dyke frame-less tank car. . This shows a 5' 2" WB archbar truck with inside hung brakes. the bottom bar is level and the top bar slopes down to the axle box tops. The same drawing with some extra detail appeared in The Railroad Gzaette, Vol XXXV, No 10, p164 & 165, on March 6 1903.

The illustrated truck's side frame is very like the old Central Valley HOn3 truck. Of current offerings, the Tahoe Model Works #211 arch bar truck is probably the closest available match. But note that the Kadee Bettendorf T-section truck is very similar to the version illustrated in the 1906 CBD, figures 1356-60, which was placed on the market circa 1903.

Regarding NG/SG differences, the narrow gauge Van Dyke (Gramps) cars were just obsolescent standard gauge 6500 gallon tank cars. The main differences were substitution of NG trucks with lowered center plate to lower the couplers 8", new NG spaced side bearing pads welded to the bolsters, and slightly rearranged brake rigging to clear the wheels. The White Pass also operated 5 Van Dyes, 3 of the standard small 6500 gallon version and 2 that had 3 compartments. They bought bare tanks, but built their own trucks, and also lowered the running boards about a foot.

John Stutz

On February 20, 2020 at 2:04 PM Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

I have built a dozen or more of the PSC HOn3 kits and have one of the standard gauge unbuilt kits.  I could see no difference whatsoever between the two. My standard gauge kit came with set of plastic wheels, but no side frames.  The instructions recommend an Athearn truck or a Kadee 500 series truck, which is a cast steel Bettendorf design that came much later than when the cars were built in about 1909. 

I suspect the 1909 cars were  delivered with standard gauge arch bar trucks, possibly later converted to Andrews designs.  But I have no photos, general arrangement drawings, or folio drawings to confirm.  I suspect that screwing on a standard gauge truck will raise the car height to the standard gauge coupler height.  But again, I have no confirming information.
Jim

 

Re: PSC tank car kits

Robert Bell
 

Thanks John.  I was going to make it into one of the White Pass cars anyway, but was unaware of running board relocation.  I haven't gotten around to studying pictures of them yet.  What type of trucks did they use? 

Thanks again!

Rob Bell
Waynesville, Nc

Re: PSC tank car kits

John Stutz
 

Jim

In the 1906 Car builder's Dictionary (CBD), reprinted circa 1980 by Glenwood and available online, figure 88 (photo) and figures 489-91 (drawings) depict the 10,000 gallon version of the Van Dyke frame-less tank car. . This shows a 5' 2" WB archbar truck with inside hung brakes. the bottom bar is level and the top bar slopes down to the axle box tops. The same drawing with some extra detail appeared in The Railroad Gzaette, Vol XXXV, No 10, p164 & 165, on March 6 1903.

The illustrated truck's side frame is very like the old Central Valley HOn3 truck. Of current offerings, the Tahoe Model Works #211 arch bar truck is probably the closest available match. But note that the Kadee Bettendorf T-section truck is very similar to the version illustrated in the 1906 CBD, figures 1356-60, which was placed on the market circa 1903.

Regarding NG/SG differences, the narrow gauge Van Dyke (Gramps) cars were just obsolescent standard gauge 6500 gallon tank cars. The main differences were substitution of NG trucks with lowered center plate to lower the couplers 8", new NG spaced side bearing pads welded to the bolsters, and slightly rearranged brake rigging to clear the wheels. The White Pass also operated 5 Van Dyes, 3 of the standard small 6500 gallon version and 2 that had 3 compartments. They bought bare tanks, but built their own trucks, and also lowered the running boards about a foot.

John Stutz

On February 20, 2020 at 2:04 PM Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

I have built a dozen or more of the PSC HOn3 kits and have one of the standard gauge unbuilt kits.  I could see no difference whatsoever between the two. My standard gauge kit came with set of plastic wheels, but no side frames.  The instructions recommend an Athearn truck or a Kadee 500 series truck, which is a cast steel Bettendorf design that came much later than when the cars were built in about 1909. 

I suspect the 1909 cars were  delivered with standard gauge arch bar trucks, possibly later converted to Andrews designs.  But I have no photos, general arrangement drawings, or folio drawings to confirm.  I suspect that screwing on a standard gauge truck will raise the car height to the standard gauge coupler height.  But again, I have no confirming information.
Jim

 

Re: Western Scale Models 20 Stamp Gold Mill

Climax@...
 

Between Ebay and Paypal fees you can expect them to take 10% of what the winner bid is.  I have been selling off my 60 year accumulation of stuff and that's what I found out.  I agree, its the biggest customer base you will find and the highest bidder get it so start off at a price you are willing to accept plus the 10% if you want to get it sold for the amount you want.
Dave Barron  (Mule)

-----Original Message-----
From: David Laverick
Sent: Feb 29, 2020 9:54 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Western Scale Models 20 Stamp Gold Mill

Don,

I had a similar scenario with an O gauge engine and asked for help with pricing it fairly.  As others mention, hard to say, the value of these treasures are best decided by those willing to say and pay. I took the easy way and I am using eBay. ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/324077939479 ) You pay the fees but you also get the largest audience in a short period of time and eBay with all their rules and fees make it easy. I like the idea of HOSwap, I will check that out. Thanks.

Dave

On Feb 29, 2020, at 6:20 AM, kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:

hello Don, and all.

to answer your question, exactly what that kit is worth is hard to say.
personally, and this is just me talking about myself, I can't see it being worth 500 dollars.
that does not mean it isn't, because the next guy might think it's a bargain at that price.
really, the only way to know what it's worth is put it up for sale and see what it brings.
ebay would likely be the place for it to bring the most, if you're strictly out to get all it'll bring.
'course, they call if "feebay" for a reason, and you'll have to shell out for their cut.
but, a week or whatever after putting in on there, it should be sold.
good luck.
Kevin.



Folks,
9 months ago I inherited a Western Scale Models 20-Stamp Gold Mill with Interior, Kit #SE-3 HO Scale. I have been dreaming about building it. If I was 10 years younger or had a spot on my current layout I would. So I plan to part with it. I have seen prices on line $500+. I am interested in knowing its value from those that follow these things. Just after a fair price which would be about what?
Raising funds to see #168 this summer.
Don Bergman


Re: Western Scale Models 20 Stamp Gold Mill

David Laverick
 

Don,

I had a similar scenario with an O gauge engine and asked for help with pricing it fairly.  As others mention, hard to say, the value of these treasures are best decided by those willing to say and pay. I took the easy way and I am using eBay. ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/324077939479 ) You pay the fees but you also get the largest audience in a short period of time and eBay with all their rules and fees make it easy. I like the idea of HOSwap, I will check that out. Thanks.

Dave

On Feb 29, 2020, at 6:20 AM, kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:

hello Don, and all.

to answer your question, exactly what that kit is worth is hard to say.
personally, and this is just me talking about myself, I can't see it being worth 500 dollars.
that does not mean it isn't, because the next guy might think it's a bargain at that price.
really, the only way to know what it's worth is put it up for sale and see what it brings.
ebay would likely be the place for it to bring the most, if you're strictly out to get all it'll bring.
'course, they call if "feebay" for a reason, and you'll have to shell out for their cut.
but, a week or whatever after putting in on there, it should be sold.
good luck.
Kevin.



Folks,
9 months ago I inherited a Western Scale Models 20-Stamp Gold Mill with Interior, Kit #SE-3 HO Scale. I have been dreaming about building it. If I was 10 years younger or had a spot on my current layout I would. So I plan to part with it. I have seen prices on line $500+. I am interested in knowing its value from those that follow these things. Just after a fair price which would be about what?
Raising funds to see #168 this summer.
Don Bergman


Re: Western Scale Models 20 Stamp Gold Mill

Bill Lugg
 

Another approach might be to search eBay's completed auctions for this kit to see what it's sold for in the past.  FWIW, I'd try HoSwap first once you figure out what price you want to assign to it - no fees, and you might just be able to move it quickly.  If it doesn't sell in a few days, repost with the subject containing "price reduced" and mark it down a little to see what you can do with it.

Just my $0.02.
Bill Lugg

On 2/29/20 5:20 AM, kevin b via Groups.Io wrote:
hello Don, and all.

to answer your question, exactly what that kit is worth is hard to say.
personally, and this is just me talking about myself, I can't see it being worth 500 dollars.
that does not mean it isn't, because the next guy might think it's a bargain at that price.
really, the only way to know what it's worth is put it up for sale and see what it brings.
ebay would likely be the place for it to bring the most, if you're strictly out to get all it'll bring.
'course, they call if "feebay" for a reason, and you'll have to shell out for their cut.
but, a week or whatever after putting in on there, it should be sold.
good luck.
Kevin.



Folks,
9 months ago I inherited a Western Scale Models 20-Stamp Gold Mill with Interior, Kit #SE-3 HO Scale. I have been dreaming about building it. If I was 10 years younger or had a spot on my current layout I would. So I plan to part with it. I have seen prices on line $500+. I am interested in knowing its value from those that follow these things. Just after a fair price which would be about what?
Raising funds to see #168 this summer.
Don Bergman

Re: Western Scale Models 20 Stamp Gold Mill

kevin b
 

hello Don, and all.

to answer your question, exactly what that kit is worth is hard to say.
personally, and this is just me talking about myself, I can't see it being worth 500 dollars.
that does not mean it isn't, because the next guy might think it's a bargain at that price.
really, the only way to know what it's worth is put it up for sale and see what it brings.
ebay would likely be the place for it to bring the most, if you're strictly out to get all it'll bring.
'course, they call if "feebay" for a reason, and you'll have to shell out for their cut.
but, a week or whatever after putting in on there, it should be sold.
good luck.
Kevin.



Folks,
9 months ago I inherited a Western Scale Models 20-Stamp Gold Mill with Interior, Kit #SE-3 HO Scale. I have been dreaming about building it. If I was 10 years younger or had a spot on my current layout I would. So I plan to part with it. I have seen prices on line $500+. I am interested in knowing its value from those that follow these things. Just after a fair price which would be about what?
Raising funds to see #168 this summer.
Don Bergman

Western Scale Models 20 Stamp Gold Mill

Don Bergman
 

Folks,

9 months ago I inherited  a Western Scale Models 20-Stamp Gold Mill with Interior, Kit #SE-3 HO Scale. I have been dreaming about building it.   If I was 10 years younger or had a spot on my current layout I would.    So I plan to part with it.    I have seen prices on line $500+.   I am interested in knowing its value from those that follow these things.   Just after a fair price which would be about what?

Raising funds to see #168 this summer.

Don Bergman

Asheville NC Train show and 41st NNGC

johnny graybeal
 

My apologies if you see this on more than one group.
Hello everyone,
I will be set up at the Asheville Train Show Friday and Saturday, to promote the ET&WNC RR and to promote the Hickory National Narrow Gauge Convention, coming in less than a year and a half to Hickory NC. I welcome anyone in this group to come by and talk to me about the convention and what you can do to participate. I look forward to meeting many of you over the next year.
Johnny Graybeal
41st NNGC Committee Chairman 

FS: HOn3 Brass Items

Matthew Dowd
 

Group,

I would like to offer the following HOn3 brass items from my personal collection to this group first:

PSC 17868-1 D&RGW Long RPO Factory Painted Grey & Black MOW scheme #X-119 - $350
PSC 15580 The Continental Oil Co. CONX #5 Tank Car - unpainted - $150

Please message me directly for more details. Thanks!

-Matthew Dowd

Re: Calling all builders!

Robert Bell
 

RepowerAndRegear

Rob Bell 

Re: Calling all builders!

John Hutnick
 

Please tell us the title of the repower regear group so that we can easily find it.

Re: Calling all builders!

tonyk537
 

I also find my Micromark Microlux table saw very valuable.  It will do most anything i need, but it reaches it's limits at times.

Re: Calling all builders!

Railroads
 

You should take a look at the repower and rehear group🤪

Allen Farnsworth

On Feb 24, 2020, at 5:43 PM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:


I also have the micro mark table saw and find it underpowered.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:39 PM David Varney <vriderclan@...> wrote:
I have the micromart table saw and accessories. Can't imagine modeling without it.  Dave v 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 8:47 AM Dusty <Dustburm@q.com> wrote:
Does anyone use a Byrnes table saw? Opinions? Hefty price but it looks much higher quality than Dremel or Jarmac.

Dusty Burman 


--
lloyd lehrer

Re: Calling all builders!

lloyd lehrer
 

I also have the micro mark table saw and find it underpowered.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:39 PM David Varney <vriderclan@...> wrote:
I have the micromart table saw and accessories. Can't imagine modeling without it.  Dave v 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 8:47 AM Dusty <Dustburm@q.com> wrote:
Does anyone use a Byrnes table saw? Opinions? Hefty price but it looks much higher quality than Dremel or Jarmac.

Dusty Burman 


--
lloyd lehrer