Date   

Re: Let’s Force Blackstone!!!!

Doug Cummings
 

For that budget you might get a small 0-4-0T with almost no detail. Tooling would take up most of the budget. There will be very little market for it. Why don't you ask for a $500.00 state of the art automobile while you are at it. And forget about "forcing" Blackstone to do anything. 


From: "Chris Kodani via Groups.Io" <ckodani@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 12:23:38 PM
Subject: [HOn3] Let’s Force Blackstone!!!!

Dear HOn3 Community,

Two things are now clear to me: HOn3 needs a steam locomotive for less than $100 AND Blackstone is the only company that can reasonably make that happen. We need to stand up for our hobby, before it dies! Let’s tell them what we want! Now keep in mind that such a steamer would have to be small but popular. Which locomotives do you feel would be the best candidates for the small HOn3 role?
_._,_._,_



Re: Let’s Force Blackstone!!!!

Dale Buxton
 

WOW! ! !   Not   ever  going  to  happen.  PERIOD!




On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 1:23 PM Chris Kodani via Groups.Io <ckodani=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Dear HOn3 Community,

Two things are now clear to me: HOn3 needs a steam locomotive for less than $100 AND Blackstone is the only company that can reasonably make that happen. We need to stand up for our hobby, before it dies! Let’s tell them what we want! Now keep in mind that such a steamer would have to be small but popular. Which locomotives do you feel would be the best candidates for the small HOn3 role?


Re: Let’s Force Blackstone!!!!

Climax@...
 

For a hundred dollars.  Lets see here, lets add lights and DCC plus sound as well!  Ya, and we all want it for only a hundred dollars too

Facts:  The usual mark up has been 40% as an industry standard so the importer only gets paid $60.  Now add the 10% & 2% for prepaid with cash or certified check, means the importer only gets $48.60 for his importing efforts, the design work, tooling, raw materials, paying the manufacturer, shipping, and import fees.  Now you add on shipping fees to you which in most cases you want for free because you are spending more than $100, right.  Take that $10 shipping out of his total and we are down to $38.60.  The Chinese want to get paid, the shipper wants to get paid, the raw materials need to be paid for, the dies and tooling cost and are of limited life.  There is loss, advertising fees, besides employees who unpack, sort, shelf, take orders, fill orders, pack and get things ready to for you.  Then there is that pesky guarantee for when you screw up something, plus parts inventory to fix stuff and provide parts to customers who want to do modifications or replace missing or damaged parts. 
Are you starting to get the idea?  It is impossible to build a decent item in the hundred dollar range.  It makes me wonder how Blackstone holds the price of their cars as low as they do because they are all works of art and are of such high quality right out of the box that they are all ready for the track.  I would suspect that a more reasonable entry level small simple, no lights, no DCC, No Glass, no paint, basic locomotive entry level price to be in the $200 to $250 price range even with the importer just breaking even.  Now if he wants a profit, the price must go up.  So be reasonable in today's market.  Think to yourself, what is an entry level locomotive worth.  Back in 1964 gasoline was only 30 cents a gallon and PFM imported the best brass around to offer entry level brass locomotives at $34.95, that means it was equal value to 116.5 gallons of gas.  Today a Gallon of gas costs about $2.40 in the states.  So 116.5 times $2.40 is a new price of $279.60 for a basic, not painted, no lights or DCC controlled locomotive.  Couple this with the emerging nations financial states and the increased wages the manufactures make in Japan, Korea, and China make over what they made in the 1960's, and you get the idea that pricing and other items goes up with wages.  Your wages go up so do our prices.  I worked all summer long mowing lawns as a kid to make $34.95 plus tax to have my local hobby shop, Schlicker's tobacco & Hobby Shop in Elgin, Illinois order me a PFM Ma&Pa 2-8-0 Consolidation #23-26 which to me was the best locomotive that could be had at that time.  Now I have over 250 pieces of brass, a dozen Blackstone Locomotives, over 500 HO cars, of which I have built perhaps over 90% out of wood.  I use to build $4.25 Central Valley kits, $5.25 Ambroid kits, and scads of others.  Even FSM kits were $4.95 to start with and now look at them today.  So what is the crux of this story, the dollar is just not worth as much as it was years ago.  Lets not get into a discussion on why as it deals with government.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "Chris Kodani via Groups.Io
Sent: Dec 15, 2018 3:23 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Let’s Force Blackstone!!!!

Dear HOn3 Community,

Two things are now clear to me: HOn3 needs a steam locomotive for less than $100 AND Blackstone is the only company that can reasonably make that happen. We need to stand up for our hobby, before it dies! Let’s tell them what we want! Now keep in mind that such a steamer would have to be small but popular. Which locomotives do you feel would be the best candidates for the small HOn3 role?


Re: Let’s Force Blackstone!!!!

Russ Norris
 

And I think all  this about a dying hobby is overblown.  We are in a very small niche of the model railroad industry, which on the whole is doing quite well.  And I am not depressed about narrow gauge modeling.  There is quite a bit of activity on  line, in published journals like the Gazette and the Annual, and the national conventions seem to be doing well.  Just because there are a lot fewer modelers in our narrow little slice of the hobby doesn't mean we're all going down the toilet.  Several folks on this list have suggested ways we can make our particular passion more attractive to other modelers.  Let's adopt a positive attitude.  All this gloom and doom is making me want to get back to the workbench.

Russ Norris

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 3:23 PM Chris Kodani via Groups.Io <ckodani=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Dear HOn3 Community,

Two things are now clear to me: HOn3 needs a steam locomotive for less than $100 AND Blackstone is the only company that can reasonably make that happen. We need to stand up for our hobby, before it dies! Let’s tell them what we want! Now keep in mind that such a steamer would have to be small but popular. Which locomotives do you feel would be the best candidates for the small HOn3 role?


Re: Let’s Force Blackstone!!!!

Mark Lewis
 

Chris:  

Your wish is not going to happen...in the short term.  First your $100.00 price point is unreasonable for a quality mechanism and super structure and second, Blackstone...at this point in time...can't even bring a 4+ year old announced HOn3 locomotive design to market.  That has to be their top priority (if it is actually going to happen) and not the project that you are proposing.

JMO,

Mark Lewis


On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 3:23 PM Chris Kodani via Groups.Io <ckodani=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Dear HOn3 Community,

Two things are now clear to me: HOn3 needs a steam locomotive for less than $100 AND Blackstone is the only company that can reasonably make that happen. We need to stand up for our hobby, before it dies! Let’s tell them what we want! Now keep in mind that such a steamer would have to be small but popular. Which locomotives do you feel would be the best candidates for the small HOn3 role?


Re: Can we PLEASE ...

claneon30
 

Thanks for the reminder Wayne.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual




New Equipment for sale

jayrs99@...
 

I originally though I would build a small HOn3 layout so I have accumulated some equipment.  After  experimenting with HOn3 kit building I have decided this scale is too small for my eyes and shaky hands and I have decided to switch to On3.  So I am selling the following new HOn3 items:
 
Cars/engines- all new in boxes with all documentation and included extra parts
*Blackstone B340953 D&RGW Long Caboose #0505   $60 
*Blackstone No. 3743 D&RGW 30 ft Box Car B340133W  $80
      Flying Grande Herald, Weathered
*Blackstone B0350106 D&RGW Open Platform Passenger Coach  -painted, unlettered, Pullman Green $80 
*Blackstone B340316 RGS 30ft Flatcar No 0616 Rio Grande Southern $45 
*Blackstone B340567 D&RGW Drop Bottom Gondola No 890 Flying Grande Herald $45 ($46 Train world)
 *Motrak Models coal load for Blackstone Drop Bottom Gondola (quantity 2) $10
*Blackstone B340610W #63 CYCX Narrow Frame Tank Car Weathered,  $65 
*Blackstone B340802 D&RGW 30 Ft. Refrigerator Car $65 
 
Blackstone B310213-S Rio Grande Southern No 41 C-19 Class 2-8-0 Narrow Gauge Locomotive w Sound
$400 
 
 Track- all new, most in original packaging
*ME Weathered Flex Track 36" 12-114 
   2 still in original wrapped bundles of 6 pieces and 4 loose pieces (total 16 pieces) - $5 each, 
*2 - ME HOn3 Code 70 #6 left hand turnout 15-105 $15 each
     1 new in original packaging, the other out of box but unused
*2 - ME HOn3 Code 70 #6 right hand turnout 15-106 $15 each
      1 new in original packaging, the other out of box but unused
*4 new Shinohara Code 70 #4 Nickel Silver right hand turnout 669-402 $20 each
*2 new Shinohara Code 70 #4 Nickel Silver Wye 669-493 $20 each
*1 package (50 pcs) ME code 55 rail joiners 26-55 $5
*1 package (50 pcs) ME code 70 rail joiners 26-70 $5
 
*2 Blackstone Pro Traxx HOn3 Snap Track (4 pieces)  $15 each pkg($15.60 Tony's Trains)
      one opened, but never used, the other never opened
*NMRA HOn3 Standard Gauge $5 
 
Structures 
McCabe Narrow Gauge Backwood Engine House #27450 $65
 
Payment by paypal, I pay the paypal fee and you pay the shipping method of your choice.
Tell me what you want and how you want to ship it and I'll come up with a price.
Contact me directly at Hidesign9@...


Re: Water tank roof

Paul Buhrke
 

Perfect answers. Thank you for the help. Paul.
--
Recreating the 14th. Subdivision
D&RGW Salida Division in 1929


Re: psc k28

Mark Rosche
 

1624S?

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....


Re: psc k28

roundbell@...
 

WAYTOO SMALL AND UNDERPOWERED   Wayne Weiss



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Rosche via Groups.Io <m_rosche@...>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2018 3:02 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] psc k28

or a Faulhaber 0816K012SR should work well (8mmx16mm 7-pole motor)

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....


Re: Balboa D&RGW C-21 #361 / Namiki motor

roundbell@...
 

That is a Namiki coreless motor, either
1220 or 1230 length. It is a good motor but probably a little weak for this big model, the 1220 definately. A lot of these motors came in with a lubricant that turns to hard wax with age. Tet it with DC and no load, if it doesn't turn over at 3 volts or squeaks stop now.    SEE  Locodoc.com  /  coreless motors   /   Namiki. for description and cures.   LocoDoc



-----Original Message-----
From: NarrowMinded1 <nathan.kline83@...>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2018 12:33 pm
Subject: [HOn3] FS :NIB brass Balboa D&RGW C-21 #361

FS :NIB brass Balboa D&RGW C-21 #361. It appears to have a can motor installed. I did not test it as I have all my test equipment packed up from moving, however, since I purchased it listed as new I presume it is in working order. Box and foam are in excellent condition. If not in working order when received please let me know and upon return of the loco I will issue a refund. I'm asking $400 shipped. PayPal, check, or money order.
--
Nathan M. Kline
McConnellsburg, PA 17233


Re: psc k28

John Stutz
 

Craig

Loco Doc, doing business as the Salida Roundhouse, uses Faulhabers for most of his many HOn3 remotering kits, and also sells the bare  motors.   He uses 18 (or 24?) volt versions to get the low 12 volt no-load speeds that he quotes.    These coreless motors have an extraordinarily flat speed/voltage response, combined with unusually high torque for their size, without any low voltage cogging , so this is a viable approach to providing excellent control at any realistic speed.

I like 24 volt Faulhabers myself.  They give the low speed control of a can motor  with a double reduction drive, equivalent to a 56:1 reduction ratio with the fairly standard 28:1 worm gears.    The more common approach of using a 12 volt coreless motor with a reduction gearhead is, in my opinion, far too noisy. Unless you really did want a bumblebee, the high speed spur gears are quite incompatible with sound.   And fitting a second gear set beside the worm gear for a higher reduction ratio, is a very tight fit between  inside HOn3 frames.

The usual rules apply:  Use the largest diameter motor that will fit , with the biggest flywheel.  Although with DCC a current keeper reduces the need for a flywheel.  With Faulhabers, I try to mount the flywheel on the worm shaft.

John Stutz

On 12/13/2018 10:59 AM, Mark Rosche via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Craig,

I reside in Europe so it is a little easier to source Faulhaber or Maxon motors.  In searching around a bit, I found

http://www.micro-loco-motion.com/

in the US if he is still in business...but be warned, Faulhaber and Maxon motors are not cheap...a good motor will run around $40-60.

I know there are a lot of people who balk at spending this amount on a motor but these are the absolute best motors available and I believe that our expensive brass locomotives deserve such motors...a lot of folks spend $300-$400 on a locomotive and then when re-motoring it, try to find the cheapest 5-pole motor they can...I cannot follow this thinking pattern...


Re: Can we PLEASE ...

roundbell@...
 

At the Minneapolis N. G. Convention I talked to you about the Iowa Traction freight operation near Mason City, Iowa. and the possibility of it making a good Railfan article. Monday on the way back to Denver we stopped back there to check it out some more. We saw all 4 box cab electrics and checked every foot of track. At the very west end of the trackage (about 300 yards east of U. S. 35) was a small manufacturing plant with a PCC and a large Plymouth 4 wheel loco and a man ( named Stan Garner ) in a chair outside. I looked in the open door and there was a completed old time steam loco tender lettered Virginia & Truckee RR #1. Next to it was a 7/8 completed small standard gauge 2-6-0. There web site ( V & T Lyon ) says it is 22 tons.
        It is a brand new replica and the new all welded boiler is the finest work I have ever seen, none of the corners are square, all the corners of the firebox and backhead are rounded and the welding is superb. The loco is over 90 % complete. The crosshead water pump is complete, the dry pipes are installed in the smokebox and the exhaust pipes and exhaust nozzle are being fabricated.and I noticed that the bottom of the smokebox was open and must be closed in.
       Stan Garner was wearing a "LEVIATHAN" T shirt. We talked for a couple hours about our involvement with steam and of coarse thought about a lot more after we parted.
      I now remember that about 53 years ago I traveled around southern California with Vic Koenigsburg checking out all the steam locos, Vic was writing the U. S. Steam Locomotive Directly and published it. Later it was revised, updated and published by David Conrad of the Valley RR. We went up and visited a small group of steam railfans north of L A who had an old 1880s Porter 2-4-2T and I would swear the two main guys were Stan Garner and Bill Odem although I didn't ask Stan in September. This little operation became the Fillmore and Western where they shoot virtually all the train scenes for T V and movies which would tie in very well with the V & T Lyon.  
        If you arrange for someone to research these two stories you can start by Googling "Iowa Trolley Museum" and "V & T Lyon". Since he is soliciting donations I would think he would agree to publicity.
       About the October 2018 Trains Magazine had a 1 page add from Progressive Rail with a condensed map of the US showing all of their operating short lines and right in the middle was IOWA TRACTION.
       Wayne Weiss
    Salida Roundhouse, Roundbell Hobby Products,   Locodoc.com     ETC.

-----Original Message-----
From: claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2018 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Can we PLEASE ...

Most of us see those two topics as closely related….

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Dec 10, 2018, at 5:01 PM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

  ... get back to discussing HOn3 trains and not "the state of the hobby" ... ???


Re: psc k28

Mark Kasprowicz
 

I've bought Maxon motors from micro-loco-motion as well. They were ideal for replacing OFM's because they would mount where the boiler was on HOn3 C-class locos. Good motors too but they have one drawback when used with cam less sound decoders. Because of the BEMF they generate I found it difficult to sync the chuff to the wheel revolutions. I checked with Soundtraxx and was told that some coreless motors had singular BEMF that did not lend itself to easy syncing.

Mark K
Oxford, England.


Re: psc k28

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Hi Craig,

The last 1624's I bought were from Roxey Mouldings here in the UK. The cost was £26, or 30 or so dollars. Their website shows them still in stock.

Mark.


Re: psc k28

Mark Rosche
 

Hi Craig,

I reside in Europe so it is a little easier to source Faulhaber or Maxon motors.  In searching around a bit, I found


in the US if he is still in business...but be warned, Faulhaber and Maxon motors are not cheap...a good motor will run around $40-60.  

I know there are a lot of people who balk at spending this amount on a motor but these are the absolute best motors available and I believe that our expensive brass locomotives deserve such motors...a lot of folks spend $300-$400 on a locomotive and then when re-motoring it, try to find the cheapest 5-pole motor they can...I cannot follow this thinking pattern...

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....


Re: psc k28

Craig Symington
 

Hi Mark,

Where are you sourcing those motors and at what price?

Craig.


Calling For High Desert Railroads For Next Layout Tour (So. Calif.)

Bob Chaparro
 

Model Railroads of Southern California's 59th layout tour will be Saturday, February 23, in the area between and including San Bernardino and Barstow. Other major towns in that area are Adelanto, Apple Valley, Hesperia and Victorville.

This is the same day the Roundhouse Gang will have its swap meet in San Bernardino so layout visitors can shop and the swap meet and then head north to the layouts.

If you have an operating model or garden railroad, live in the tour area and are interested in participating, please contact me OFF LIST at:

chiefbobbb@... [chiefbobbb AT verizon DOT net]

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Model Railroads of Southern California

https://groups.io/g/ModelRailroadsofSoCalif


Re: Water tank roof

Keith Wiseman
 

Hello Paul,

We have one We make on ebay. Click here.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/132855848138   It is a one piece resin casting.

Keith Wiseman
Wiseman Model Services


Re: psc k28

Mick Moignard
 

Mashima 1624 or 1628 will work very well, if you can find one.  5 minute swap.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

, so please excuse the typos.

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