Date   

Minimum Clearance

Stephen Silver
 

While I know the NMRA center to center recommended spacing, what does everyone use in yards for parallel tracks?  The standard 1.6xx
or something else?

Thanks in advance.
Stephen Silver
Chief Surveyor
Silver Creek & Mellow Gulch Railway Co.


Re: Source for brass channel

 

When you work in HOn3 the laws of physics are on your side.  The highest stresses, those that take the material past the yield threshold, come from only few sources:
1.  Handling by outsized giant beings (1:1 humans)
2.  Thermal stresses from dissimilar metal expansion and contraction due to exposure to hot (summer sun) or cold (parked car on a Minnesota winter night) environments.  If the whole structure is brass that's no issue.  Note here: work hardening of materials has no effect on their thermal expansion properties.
3. Over tightening screws with not enough threads to support the load. Engineering rule of thumb here is thread depth at least the diameter of the screw; better 1-1/2 times the diameter.  Not the same for plastics.  They vary.  Most likely source of problems is with coupler pocket screws into short threads in thin brass.
Best bet here is to anneal the brass before machining, if you can, and learn how to get clean cuts in the gummy soft brass.  That's another subject.
FWIW -- Ed Weldon


Re: Source for brass channel

Bill Lugg
 

Yes, I've experienced a similar issue on an unrelated part.  It was a verrrrry long time ago in a college shop class I took related to my ME degree.  We were tasked with fabricating a small C clamp from 0.5 inch steel plate among other things.  The shop teacher pointed out to us that when we cut the block out of the cold rolled steel plate, we'd be relieving the stress on that side of the material and the C would tend to pull together a bit.  IF it was a precision part, we'd have to take it to the mill to true it up (we cut it on a band saw), but for our purposes, it was simply important to drill the hole through the leg AFTER cutting so it would be straight and not affected by the warpage.

The moral of the story seemed to be there's no way to prevent this problem.  Especially when you're working on something as small as a piece of brass bar stock for an HOn3 loco.

Bill Lugg

On 10/7/19 3:58 AM, Dale Buxton wrote:
Long ago (about 25 plus years now) I was working on the same type of project, channel iron for a tender frame. I made some very small channels out of brass bar stock. Using first a slotting saw in my lathe and then a milling machine. Along the way,  I encountered a problem that I still don't know how to overcome. It has to do with longitudinal stress relief. When Brass bar stock is extruded, it develops (so I am told) an annealing stress along its length. I my case, the bar stock I was working kept warping away from the slotting saw or milling head as I worked down its length. Every time I finished a cut and I went to reposition the stock in the vise to continue the slot. The stock had developed a springy warp in it that curved away from the cut in it. I tried several times to eliminate warping effect but I never figured it out.

I realized some time later that I was annealing the brass and adding hardness to one side but not the other. I thought about heating the brass to relieve the new annealing that I had created, But I didn't want to soften the brass too much and make it useless. I was really on unsure ground here and had no one to ask what to do to fix the problem. (I still don't) At the time, I had to resort to bending it back the the other way from the warpage. This of coarse made the brass even harder! I eventually got enough channel to complete the the tender frame members so I never investigated how to eliminate the warping that I got. After that I discovered "Special Shapes"  and never attempted to make my own channels again. With Special Shapes gone, I will either have to find a new vender or workout the stress relief problem.

D Buxton

On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 5:08 PM Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@... <mailto:vanhovem22@...>> wrote:

If I understand the problem, I would say this is not for a saw,
but for a small milling machine.

Now, you have an excuse for buying one of those.

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

> On Oct 6, 2019, at 11:06 AM, Bill Lugg <@luggw1
<mailto:@luggw1>> wrote:
>
> Yes, I was wondering that too, I've got one of those Microlux
table saws, but I'm not sure I've got the right blade for this
task.  I'll have to look.  It would take just the right plate
around the blade too to prevent the material from slipping into
the machinery.
>
> Bill Lugg
>
>
> On 10/6/19 9:52 AM, Brian Kopp wrote:
>> Bill for ripping tube like that I wonder if there is a smallish
table saw out there in the hobby market.....
>>
>> That might be nice for other ripping tasks too like wood or
brass sheet stock.....
>>
>> Its always a good time to buy tools.... =)
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>> Brian Kopp
>> Jacksonville, FL
>
>
>





Re: Source for brass channel

Dale Buxton
 

Long ago (about 25 plus years now) I was working on the same type of project, channel iron for a tender frame. I made some very small channels out of brass bar stock. Using first a slotting saw in my lathe and then a milling machine. Along the way,  I encountered a problem that I still don't know how to overcome. It has to do with longitudinal stress relief. When Brass bar stock is extruded, it develops (so I am told) an annealing stress along its length. I my case, the bar stock I was working kept warping away from the slotting saw or milling head as I worked down its length. Every time I finished a cut and I went to reposition the stock in the vise to continue the slot. The stock had developed a springy warp in it that curved away from the cut in it. I tried several times to eliminate warping effect but I never figured it out. 

I realized some time later that I was annealing the brass and adding hardness to one side but not the other. I thought about heating the brass to relieve the new annealing that I had created, But I didn't want to soften the brass too much and make it useless. I was really on unsure ground here and had no one to ask what to do to fix the problem. (I still don't) At the time, I had to resort to bending it back the the other way from the warpage. This of coarse made the brass even harder! I eventually got enough channel to complete the the tender frame members so I never investigated how to eliminate the warping that I got. After that I discovered "Special Shapes"  and never attempted to make my own channels again. With Special Shapes gone, I will either have to find a new vender or workout the stress relief problem.

D Buxton

On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 5:08 PM Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@...> wrote:
If I understand the problem, I would say this is not for a saw, but for a small milling machine.

Now, you have an excuse for buying one of those.

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

> On Oct 6, 2019, at 11:06 AM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, I was wondering that too, I've got one of those Microlux table saws, but I'm not sure I've got the right blade for this task.  I'll have to look.  It would take just the right plate around the blade too to prevent the material from slipping into the machinery.
>
> Bill Lugg
>
>
> On 10/6/19 9:52 AM, Brian Kopp wrote:
>> Bill for ripping tube like that I wonder if there is a smallish table saw out there in the hobby market.....
>>
>> That might be nice for other ripping tasks too like wood or brass sheet stock.....
>>
>> Its always a good time to buy tools.... =)
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>> Brian Kopp
>> Jacksonville, FL
>
>
>





The Sacramento Convention - The CSRM

Russ Norris
 

Just finished posting a continuation of my report on the 39th National Convention.  This post deals with the California State Railroad Museum, a truly amazing place.  You can read all about it by clicking on this link:

http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/
--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Re: Source for brass channel

Mike Van Hove
 

If I understand the problem, I would say this is not for a saw, but for a small milling machine.

Now, you have an excuse for buying one of those.

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Oct 6, 2019, at 11:06 AM, Bill Lugg <@luggw1> wrote:

Yes, I was wondering that too, I've got one of those Microlux table saws, but I'm not sure I've got the right blade for this task. I'll have to look. It would take just the right plate around the blade too to prevent the material from slipping into the machinery.

Bill Lugg


On 10/6/19 9:52 AM, Brian Kopp wrote:
Bill for ripping tube like that I wonder if there is a smallish table saw out there in the hobby market.....

That might be nice for other ripping tasks too like wood or brass sheet stock.....

Its always a good time to buy tools.... =)

Brian

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Re: Source for brass channel

Bill Lugg
 

We'll find out.  I emailed them this morning to find out the minimum quantity and cost.  Their web site does state they do custom work.

Bill Lugg

On 10/6/19 12:20 PM, Mike Chamberlain wrote:
This was discussed on The Railwire not long ago . IIRC someone posted that if you call them they would make the shapes you need as a special order ......Mike


BRASS, try McMaster-Carr

asandrini
 


I checked McMaster-Carr and they have rectangle brass tube.  They ship quickly,  stock standard and metric screws. A great source of building materials.

Big Al from Cal


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "kevin b via Groups.Io" <arcatruck13@...>
Date: 10/6/19 5:36 PM (GMT+00:00)
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Source for brass channel

I think I just might order one of those.
thanks.
Kevin.

Etch Buddy Photo-Etch Bending Fixture

Item #: 86143


Re: Source for brass channel

Mike Chamberlain
 

This was discussed on The Railwire not long ago . IIRC someone posted that if you call them they would make the shapes you need as a special order ......Mike


Re: Source for brass channel

Brian Kopp
 

Me too!

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Re: 2019 NNGC - Pretty Quiet Here

Scott McLeod
 

Thank you as well Doug for the update!

 

Your update is an example of the type of communication is what fuels patience.

 

There is no doubt that that we in the ‘hobby’ end of model railroading should appreciate those modelers that get involved and take on the business side of the hobby.  ‘Stuff’ just doesn’t show up and does take effort, sometimes way more than realized or even anticipated.  So glad to have an update that gives context to why things are taking longer.  Best wishes!

 

Scott McLeod

HOn3 RGS/D&RGW Ridgway - Durango


Re: Source for brass channel

kevin b
 

I think I just might order one of those.
thanks.
Kevin.

Etch Buddy Photo-Etch Bending Fixture

Item #: 86143


Re: Source for brass channel

Bill Lugg
 

Yes, I have one of those.  Maybe you're on to something here.  I could bend up my own had have channel that's closer to the right thickness that what I could buy.  I'll have to try that.  Thanks for the idea.

Bill Lugg

On 10/6/19 11:24 AM, Bruce wrote:
I bought this tool from Micro-Mark.


Etch Buddy Photo-Etch Bending Fixture

Item #: 86143

I don't do too much with flat metal but believe this would make nice channels in any size needed if the metal is not too thick (which it wouldn't be if made to scale).

At $50 list I believe it is well worth it.

Bruce Bowie

On Sun, Oct 6, 2019, 1:20 PM kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:

so, I would like to suggest something.
maybe you could use some brass strip and "brake" it like sheet metal.
might take some effort to make a micro brake, but you'd have the
problem solved from then on.
just an idea, hope it helps you.
Kevin.


Re: Source for brass channel

Bruce
 

I bought this tool from Micro-Mark.

Etch Buddy Photo-Etch Bending Fixture

Item #: 86143

I don't do too much with flat metal but believe this would make nice channels in any size needed if the metal is not too thick (which it wouldn't be if made to scale).

At $50 list I believe it is well worth it.

Bruce Bowie


On Sun, Oct 6, 2019, 1:20 PM kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
so, I would like to suggest something.
maybe you could use some brass strip and "brake" it like sheet metal.
might take some effort to make a micro brake, but you'd have the problem solved from then on.
just an idea, hope it helps you.
Kevin.


Re: Source for brass channel

kevin b
 

so, I would like to suggest something.
maybe you could use some brass strip and "brake" it like sheet metal.
might take some effort to make a micro brake, but you'd have the problem solved from then on.
just an idea, hope it helps you.
Kevin.


Re: 2019 NNGC - Pretty Quiet Here

Bruce
 

You and your partner have taken on a monumental task.  We in the hobby are very grateful and will try to maintain our patience.

Thanks.

Bruce Bowie
Huron Ohio

On Sun, Oct 6, 2019, 12:48 PM Doug Junda <djunda@...> wrote:
Chris,

Thanks for jumping in here.  For most of you, I'm recovering from having my right knee replaced.  So thanks again Chris.

As for a update,  on the Tank cars, they are still moving along,  in fact, Robert my partner will be flying to California next weekend to meet with the owner of a factory we deal with in China.

In the past year we have imported three different projects, HO standard gauge tank cars, ON3 trucks, and On3 switches.  All of these project were much later then we expected.  Being new to the import business, we have taken date that we were given and past them along.  We are learning not to do that.  But,  rest assured the project is moving forward and I will offer up a update after Roberts meeting.

As a quick look back, it was a year oct 1 st we received our first truck load from San Juan, in the time since we have moved a total of five companies to our office in Colorado.  The last of the moves took place in may of last year.  We are making progress on inventory, not as quickly as we would like, but we are making progress.

Thanks,

Doug Junda


On Oct 2, 2019, at 12:21 PM, claneon30 via Groups.Io <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

I had Doug Junda (one of the San Juan owners) at my On30 meeting at the NNGC and he was entirely frank about how things are taking longer in all aspects of the business than they had planned. Getting the machinery running to mold parts, especially the former Grandt machines, required all new wiring, motors and hydraulics. Because the machines had been in the same location for many, many years, the move to Colorado was really tough on them, and they found that replacing a part that had been stressed in the move, resulted in other parts of the machine failing, costing time. And obviously production. They ae moving the ball down the field and he asked the guys present for some patience as they get all the aspects of the company running smoothly and at capacity.

Regarding China, the government was changing policies there that was negatively affected production and delivery of models for all companies even BEFORE the trade issues came up, so everyone is trying to deal with that, including San Juan. I’d say watch their ads for updates on delivery schedule, based on what they are hearing from their builder.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Oct 2, 2019, at 8:36 AM, DaveS. <dsheber@...> wrote:

China issues.


Re: Source for brass channel

 

Think about building a cutoff "saw" using  3” x .03” x 3/8” Cut-Off Wheels by Black Hawk Abrasives driven by a 25,000 rpm die grinder instead of low speed metal blades that can't cut hardened steel and can "grab" brass with bad results. 
Hack a small power tool like a hobby saw or a disk sander for its slotted table and miter gauge. Add a fence and maybe a "swing arm mount" to raise and lower the cutting wheel. .........Eye protection is a must.
This won't do much for plastic or wood; but if your model making skills are still in that arena you'll be working that issue first.
Ed W
   


Re: 2019 NNGC - Pretty Quiet Here

Doug Junda
 

Chris,

Thanks for jumping in here.  For most of you, I'm recovering from having my right knee replaced.  So thanks again Chris.

As for a update,  on the Tank cars, they are still moving along,  in fact, Robert my partner will be flying to California next weekend to meet with the owner of a factory we deal with in China.

In the past year we have imported three different projects, HO standard gauge tank cars, ON3 trucks, and On3 switches.  All of these project were much later then we expected.  Being new to the import business, we have taken date that we were given and past them along.  We are learning not to do that.  But,  rest assured the project is moving forward and I will offer up a update after Roberts meeting.

As a quick look back, it was a year oct 1 st we received our first truck load from San Juan, in the time since we have moved a total of five companies to our office in Colorado.  The last of the moves took place in may of last year.  We are making progress on inventory, not as quickly as we would like, but we are making progress.

Thanks,

Doug Junda


On Oct 2, 2019, at 12:21 PM, claneon30 via Groups.Io <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

I had Doug Junda (one of the San Juan owners) at my On30 meeting at the NNGC and he was entirely frank about how things are taking longer in all aspects of the business than they had planned. Getting the machinery running to mold parts, especially the former Grandt machines, required all new wiring, motors and hydraulics. Because the machines had been in the same location for many, many years, the move to Colorado was really tough on them, and they found that replacing a part that had been stressed in the move, resulted in other parts of the machine failing, costing time. And obviously production. They ae moving the ball down the field and he asked the guys present for some patience as they get all the aspects of the company running smoothly and at capacity.

Regarding China, the government was changing policies there that was negatively affected production and delivery of models for all companies even BEFORE the trade issues came up, so everyone is trying to deal with that, including San Juan. I’d say watch their ads for updates on delivery schedule, based on what they are hearing from their builder.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Oct 2, 2019, at 8:36 AM, DaveS. <dsheber@...> wrote:

China issues.


Re: Source for brass channel

Bill Lugg
 

Yes, I was wondering that too, I've got one of those Microlux table saws, but I'm not sure I've got the right blade for this task.  I'll have to look.  It would take just the right plate around the blade too to prevent the material from slipping into the machinery.

Bill Lugg

On 10/6/19 9:52 AM, Brian Kopp wrote:
Bill for ripping tube like that I wonder if there is a smallish table saw out there in the hobby market.....

That might be nice for other ripping tasks too like wood or brass sheet stock.....

Its always a good time to buy tools.... =)

Brian

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Re: Source for brass channel

Brian Kopp
 

Bill for ripping tube like that I wonder if there is a smallish table saw out there in the hobby market.....

That might be nice for other ripping tasks too like wood or brass sheet stock.....

Its always a good time to buy tools.... =)

Brian

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL