Date   

Re: Does Anyone Have Experience With HOn3 D&RGW Passenger Trucks

Ric Case
 

Just received a window order today! They have a lady who does phone work 1or 2 days a week! 
He is really trying to get things together! 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Oct 5, 2020, at 3:47 PM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

No and no. San Juan/Grandt is still in business, (although not doing a great job of communicating it at the moment) and they never offered passenger truck in HOn3.

The instructions are an obvious error. You would attach with a screw, so that the truck can pivot, same as any other model.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Oct 5, 2020, at 1:34 PM, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:

Looking for some advice on assembling HOn3 D&RGW passenger trucks.  I have a number of unassembled trucks.  All are different, most have no instructions and the ones with instructions appear to have an error.  The PSC plastic trucks come with no body bolster and the sparse instructions have no reference on how to connect the bolsters.  Tried to see if San Juan Model Co (who took over Grant Line) was offering these passenger trucks but their website no longer exists, so I assume they've gone under also.  The kits from MRGS are identical to those included in the old E&B Valley Co HOn3 passenger car kits but their instructions say to glue the truck bolster to the body bolster, making attachment to the car underbody impossible if one wants the trucks to turn on curves.  Any advice appreciated.


Re: Does Anyone Have Experience With HOn3 D&RGW Passenger Trucks

claneon30
 

No and no. San Juan/Grandt is still in business, (although not doing a great job of communicating it at the moment) and they never offered passenger truck in HOn3.

The instructions are an obvious error. You would attach with a screw, so that the truck can pivot, same as any other model.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Oct 5, 2020, at 1:34 PM, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:

Looking for some advice on assembling HOn3 D&RGW passenger trucks.  I have a number of unassembled trucks.  All are different, most have no instructions and the ones with instructions appear to have an error.  The PSC plastic trucks come with no body bolster and the sparse instructions have no reference on how to connect the bolsters.  Tried to see if San Juan Model Co (who took over Grant Line) was offering these passenger trucks but their website no longer exists, so I assume they've gone under also.  The kits from MRGS are identical to those included in the old E&B Valley Co HOn3 passenger car kits but their instructions say to glue the truck bolster to the body bolster, making attachment to the car underbody impossible if one wants the trucks to turn on curves.  Any advice appreciated.


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

LARRY KLOSE
 

I was looking in the RGS Story Vol. 12 (which is mostly a survey of roster and Real Estate) for something else so I looked at # 20.  Multiple pictures from the excursions in 1947 and others about that time show no second pipe-just one going directly into the air tank with no valve on it. So maybe it was a later ICC requirement or something like that.

 

Did the dump valve have the same function as those in caboose cupolas?

 

Larry


Does Anyone Have Experience With HOn3 D&RGW Passenger Trucks

Wayne
 

Looking for some advice on assembling HOn3 D&RGW passenger trucks.  I have a number of unassembled trucks.  All are different, most have no instructions and the ones with instructions appear to have an error.  The PSC plastic trucks come with no body bolster and the sparse instructions have no reference on how to connect the bolsters.  Tried to see if San Juan Model Co (who took over Grant Line) was offering these passenger trucks but their website no longer exists, so I assume they've gone under also.  The kits from MRGS are identical to those included in the old E&B Valley Co HOn3 passenger car kits but their instructions say to glue the truck bolster to the body bolster, making attachment to the car underbody impossible if one wants the trucks to turn on curves.  Any advice appreciated.


Re: new scenery

Steve Hatch
 

yep snow up there.


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

John Stutz
 

Thanks Dale

"Dump Valve" is the key: as in "dumping the air". If you look at any of the air brake systems based on the Quick Action triple valve of 1886+ (H and later K triples), you will find a small dump valve on the bottom of the air tank. This is a check valve which can be opened by pulling on a rigid wire(~1/8" and very rarely modeled), with one extending to each side of the underframe. Opening this would release any condensed water in the tank, but the main purpose was to release the brake when the air tank/cylinder application air pressure was too high for the train line pressure to release the brake. With cars, this requires a man on the ground, presumably while the train is stopped. Putting it at tender top level allowed access while the train is moving, and on the car most likely to suffer the problem.

As to why: Trainline air pressure provides the power for each car's brake, while pressure variations control each brake's actions. In theory. Which worked quite well for the initial applications to short trains, where pressure could be held nearly uniform throughout. With longer trains, and when making up trains, application and release could be less certain, due to pressure fluctuations over the trainline's length. Thus the air brake test required, when making up trains, with inspectors on the ground and checking every car to ensure that all the brakes apply AND release properly. Since pressure fluctuations are greatest at the engine, if the tender has an ordinary freight car brake, it is most subject to control problems. Thus the accessible dump valve.

Note that this is distinct from the retainer valve. A dump valve is connected to the air reservoir. A retainer is piped to the triple valve's exhaust port, and when activated prevents the cylinder pressure being completely exhausted when the brake is released.

I hope this makes sense. Dave would have made it clearer, but ...

John Stutz

On October 5, 2020 at 4:52 AM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

It's a "Dump Valve".  This is what the late Dave Garcia told me it was. When he worked for the Southern Pacific, He was the guy you wanted to talk to in the air brakes. So he would have known. This was a pretty standard item after the more modern air brake systems started to be applied to the D&RGW and RGS locomotives. It usually is accompanied by another pipe with a retainer valve at the end and sometimes even a third pipe with a pipe union with a plug in the end or a set of two elbows back to back that are plugged after the last elbow. What the purpose of the third pipe is, I have no idea. Perhaps an auxiliary air line tap point maybe? I was working on the 3D computer model for printing of this pipe cluster for Dave when he died earlier this year. I think for printing purposes though, pipes are simply too small of tha diameter for the current printers to make. In any case, these hardly ever got modeled correctly by the old importers. 

You have to remember that the tender that the 20 had behind it up until it's recent rebuilding came from one of the other RGS ten wheelers. Forget which one. The 20 had this air-line pipe custer arrangement on the  first tender it had on the RGS. But it was on the engineers side of the tender close to the water area and it didn't go much above the deck rivet line.

This oddly located "Dump Valve" was probably put by the air tank because it was an easier access point for the brakeman than for him to hang off the side of the tender to throw it open.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 1:24 PM bassb04011 < fishingmaine@...> wrote:
I don't think 20 had the 2nd pipe until very late (post 1948 at least).
Brian


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Climax@... <Climax@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 3:21 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question
 
Could it be used to drain condensation or water from an airline in the winter so it did not freeze up?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Moignard
Sent: Oct 3, 2020 2:41 PM
To: john.stutz@...
Cc: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

John

No idea why it was there unless it was some sort of bleed valve, but both 20 and 461 had them and they’re rarely if ever modelled.

Mick

______________________________________
Mick Moignard
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

On 3 Oct 2020, at 19:27, john.stutz@... wrote:

 Mick

Now I am curious: You have plug valve on a pipe adjacent to an air tank. Presumably it has something to do with the air brake system. So what is on the other end of that pipe? And what is the valve used for?

John Stutz

On October 3, 2020 at 6:31 AM Mick Moignard < mick@...> wrote:

QuickPic RGS 20 P 60
<image0.jpeg>

My second attempt model
<image1.jpeg>


Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

 

 


 


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Mick Moignard
 

RGS 20 got the tender, cab and some other parts from 25 in the 1944 rebuild from the 1943 wreck. 25 was taken out of service around 1940 and slowly lost parts for some years; see the various photos in volumes of  RGS Story, specifically V12 P72/3.  The pipe on the 20's tender was not there in May 1947; various photos of 20 used on a fantrip show that, but it was there by 1950.  I've never seen a photo of 461 in RGS livery without the pipe up the RH tender side.

Mick
______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
The week may start M,T but it always ends up WTF!


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Dale Buxton
 

It's a "Dump Valve".  This is what the late Dave Garcia told me it was. When he worked for the Southern Pacific, He was the guy you wanted to talk to in the air brakes. So he would have known. This was a pretty standard item after the more modern air brake systems started to be applied to the D&RGW and RGS locomotives. It usually is accompanied by another pipe with a retainer valve at the end and sometimes even a third pipe with a pipe union with a plug in the end or a set of two elbows back to back that are plugged after the last elbow. What the purpose of the third pipe is, I have no idea. Perhaps an auxiliary air line tap point maybe? I was working on the 3D computer model for printing of this pipe cluster for Dave when he died earlier this year. I think for printing purposes though, pipes are simply too small of tha diameter for the current printers to make. In any case, these hardly ever got modeled correctly by the old importers. 

You have to remember that the tender that the 20 had behind it up until it's recent rebuilding came from one of the other RGS ten wheelers. Forget which one. The 20 had this air-line pipe custer arrangement on the  first tender it had on the RGS. But it was on the engineers side of the tender close to the water area and it didn't go much above the deck rivet line.

This oddly located "Dump Valve" was probably put by the air tank because it was an easier access point for the brakeman than for him to hang off the side of the tender to throw it open.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 1:24 PM bassb04011 <fishingmaine@...> wrote:
I don't think 20 had the 2nd pipe until very late (post 1948 at least).
Brian


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Climax@... <Climax@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 3:21 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question
 
Could it be used to drain condensation or water from an airline in the winter so it did not freeze up?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Moignard
Sent: Oct 3, 2020 2:41 PM
To: john.stutz@...
Cc: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

John

No idea why it was there unless it was some sort of bleed valve, but both 20 and 461 had them and they’re rarely if ever modelled.

Mick

______________________________________
Mick Moignard
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

On 3 Oct 2020, at 19:27, john.stutz@... wrote:

 Mick

Now I am curious: You have plug valve on a pipe adjacent to an air tank. Presumably it has something to do with the air brake system. So what is on the other end of that pipe? And what is the valve used for?

John Stutz

On October 3, 2020 at 6:31 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

QuickPic RGS 20 P 60
<image0.jpeg>

My second attempt model
<image1.jpeg>


Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

 

 


Re: new scenery

Don Bergman
 

Coming along great.  The imagination becoming a reality stage.  Plans for snow on the tallest peak?

Don Bergman


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Steve Hatch <hatch@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 9:14 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] new scenery
 

 I've started putting in the scenery in the new add-on building.

here's a look

 


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

bassb04011
 

I don't think 20 had the 2nd pipe until very late (post 1948 at least).
Brian


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Climax@... <Climax@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 3:21 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question
 
Could it be used to drain condensation or water from an airline in the winter so it did not freeze up?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Moignard
Sent: Oct 3, 2020 2:41 PM
To: john.stutz@...
Cc: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

John

No idea why it was there unless it was some sort of bleed valve, but both 20 and 461 had them and they’re rarely if ever modelled.

Mick

______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

On 3 Oct 2020, at 19:27, john.stutz@... wrote:

 Mick

Now I am curious: You have plug valve on a pipe adjacent to an air tank. Presumably it has something to do with the air brake system. So what is on the other end of that pipe? And what is the valve used for?

John Stutz

On October 3, 2020 at 6:31 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

QuickPic RGS 20 P 60
<image0.jpeg>

My second attempt model
<image1.jpeg>


Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

 

 


Re: new scenery

Steven Haworth
 

Wow - that's a great start, Steve.  Seems like really fast progress, but then it's been a full summer for us and so perhaps it's actually been a long time coming from your point of view.  But still - great progress!

- Steve Haworth
RGS history - http://www.rgsrr.com/
Blog - http://rgsrr.blogspot.com/               FB - https://www.facebook.com/stevesrgs/


On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 8:14 PM Steve Hatch <hatch@...> wrote:

 I've started putting in the scenery in the new add-on building.

here's a look

 


new scenery

Steve Hatch
 


 I've started putting in the scenery in the new add-on building.

here's a look

 


Re: De-spruing brass brake wheels

kevin b
 

so,,,,, i'm a gear head from back in the day.
made a BUNCH of my own gaskets.
i have a slew of hole punches in all kinds of sizes.
i BETCHA' one of 'em would fit the brake wheel you're talking about.
so, is there a harbor freight anywhere near you?
might be worth a drive to pick up a set of hole punches.
who knows, you might get lucky, and at the price they'll be, maybe get a couple sets and "work" on one till it is dead on the exact size you want.
just an idea.
good luck.
Kevin.

On Saturday, October 3, 2020, 04:59:25 PM CDT, Dusty <dustburm@q.com> wrote:


Gone are the days of de-sprued brake wheels. I bet PSC used to have a punch to free these little, fragile parts. Here's my current method. I securely and carefully hold the part in my soft jawed vise. I then very carefully cut the outer ring in five places between the 'gates' using a Mototool with a cutoff disk. Grab the outer ring with a pliers and gently bend back and forth until the gate fatigues off. Then I finish the rim with 400 or 500 wet or dry.


De-spruing brass brake wheels

Dusty
 

Gone are the days of de-sprued brake wheels. I bet PSC used to have a punch to free these little, fragile parts. Here's my current method. I securely and carefully hold the part in my soft jawed vise. I then very carefully cut the outer ring in five places between the 'gates' using a Mototool with a cutoff disk. Grab the outer ring with a pliers and gently bend back and forth until the gate fatigues off. Then I finish the rim with 400 or 500 wet or dry.


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Climax@...
 

Could it be used to drain condensation or water from an airline in the winter so it did not freeze up?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Moignard
Sent: Oct 3, 2020 2:41 PM
To: john.stutz@...
Cc: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

John

No idea why it was there unless it was some sort of bleed valve, but both 20 and 461 had them and they’re rarely if ever modelled.

Mick

______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

On 3 Oct 2020, at 19:27, john.stutz@... wrote:

 Mick

Now I am curious: You have plug valve on a pipe adjacent to an air tank. Presumably it has something to do with the air brake system. So what is on the other end of that pipe? And what is the valve used for?

John Stutz

On October 3, 2020 at 6:31 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

QuickPic RGS 20 P 60
<image0.jpeg>

My second attempt model
<image1.jpeg>


Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

 

 


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Mick Moignard
 

John

No idea why it was there unless it was some sort of bleed valve, but both 20 and 461 had them and they’re rarely if ever modelled.

Mick

______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

On 3 Oct 2020, at 19:27, john.stutz@... wrote:

 Mick

Now I am curious: You have plug valve on a pipe adjacent to an air tank. Presumably it has something to do with the air brake system. So what is on the other end of that pipe? And what is the valve used for?

John Stutz

On October 3, 2020 at 6:31 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

QuickPic RGS 20 P 60
<image0.jpeg>

My second attempt model
<image1.jpeg>


Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

 

 


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

John Stutz
 

Mick

Now I am curious: You have plug valve on a pipe adjacent to an air tank. Presumably it has something to do with the air brake system. So what is on the other end of that pipe? And what is the valve used for?

John Stutz

On October 3, 2020 at 6:31 AM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

QuickPic RGS 20 P 60
My second attempt model

Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

 

 


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Mark Rosche
 

Mick,

Many thanks for the info and pics!!!!

Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

On 3. Oct 2020, at 15:31, Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

QuickPic RGS 20 P 60
<image0.jpeg>

My second attempt model
<image1.jpeg>


Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Mick Moignard
 

QuickPic RGS 20 P 60
My second attempt model

Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!


Re: RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Mick Moignard
 

Mark

Yes, it’s wrong.  The rearward pipe does not go into the tank. The Pruitt drawing in Silver San Juan is wrong.

I’ll send some photos...

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.

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