Date   

Re: A Helix tale, Part 1 The Construction

Jim Marlett
 

I feel fortunate that my furnace and water heater are outside of my train room, but I have a water line that runs to the outside spigot that is a little worrisome. I finally decided if it fails, I’ll move the spigot if I can’t repair it in place.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Jan 16, 2021, at 6:30 PM, Don Bergman <DBRenegade@...> wrote:

Jim,

I read your note and chuckled:  " Hope your furnace doesn’t have to be replaced!"  

Yes, that was another aspect of the project making sure the front sections come out and the joints in the tracks match.    I inspected homes for buyers and am aware of that need.  Most of the time I just told the buyer the age and informed them when they should expect to replace, but added, it can fail at any time.  They typically last 20-25 years.  I condemned a few and told the current owner turn it off and repair or replace before you turn it back on.  MY CO detector probably saved a few lives.  The youngest furnace I condemned was 7 years old.  Something was dripping water slowly on the heat exchanger, likely a manufacturing defect.  I saw a small rust spot , touched it and  a hole opened.    The unit was probably never serviced.  Or the tech did not look close enough to catch it.    One DIY gent put a stud wall in front of the furnace, and it was impossible to service or change the filter, and he was upset with me for calling the defect!

I did replace the 17 year old Hot  heater before doing the scenery on the staging level even though it was working just fine.   They typically go 8-12 years so it was due. 

Don



Re: What got you in to HOn3?

Ric Case
 

Craig when I first started back in the early 70s , I was planning a eastern logging and coal mine using western second hand equipment bought and shipped east as the railroad was able to find equipment for sale out West. 
Then Bobby Hall brought out the EBT locomotive s. 
I started researching the EBT, 
I was hooked! 30 years and still working on my railroad! 
This railroad is a build everything from scratch, there are no locomotives available for the new comers like the western railroad’s. 
If you’re lucky EBay can provide you a loco every once in a while. 
I purchased 18 Blackstone locos to use, not prototype but it’s my railroad. 
Have fun is the best thing I can suggest to anyone who is interested in building a railroad of any 
Prototype. Just be careful when you decide on how much railroad you have room for, I choose to fill up an 1750 ft basement. Been working on it for 28 yrs. and will probably never finish it completely. 
It’s a labor of love and I will have many more years hopefully to try to finish it . Lots of structures still to build! 
Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Jan 17, 2021, at 9:48 AM, Craig Linn <drgw346@...> wrote:

Thanks Chris for the file.  And thanks to everyone who has answered so far.  I think this will really help my presentation go a bit further (and to some area’s that I didn’t think of…so thank you.)

Keep em coming!

Craig



On Jan 16, 2021, at 5:22 PM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

Lo rez should you wish to consult it Craig.





Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual
chrislaneon30@...



On Jan 16, 2021, at 3:24 PM, duncan <train3guy@...> wrote:

Hi, Craig,

   You might want to get a copy of the 2009 HOIn3 Annual.  I wrote the lead article.  It was about why HOn3 was perhaps the best scale/gauge combination for modeling narrow gauge railroads. As has been pointed out by several respondents so far, a question about why HOn3 was chosen often includes, or involves, why narrow gauge is chosen.  While closely related they are two slightly different topics.  In addition to the article above, I also gave clinics about every year at Caboose Hobbies, when I worked there, on the topic of Narrow Gauge and why it was such a good choice to model in.

   To directly answer your questions: What got me into HOn3 was the fact I love history.  So, my first HO modeling was of period railroads - wooden cars with truss rods and turnbuckles, false front buildings, fluted domes, diamond stacks, short trains, steep grades, small towns and the like.While in college I had heard about narrow gauge and decided to check it out a bit more.  i bought a LaBell combine and built it.  I instantly liked the looks and proportion of the model.  My girl friend, now my wife - a girl from Denver, gave me a copy of Narrow Gauge in the Rockies (also mentioned by another responder).  I read through it and was fascinated by the history - the Elephant Corral in Denver, the story of the elephants helping a stranded circus train over the mountains, the Face on the Barroom Floor and so much more.  That got me into narrow gauge.  It fit what I was already interested in - period railroading.  And since I was already doing HO modeling, it was natural to check out HOn3.  As I looked at HOn3 and the other narrow gauges I slowly began to realize there was more of everything in HO scale.  That pretty much sealed the deal on HOn3.

   I think the most important of the many things I love about HOn3 is the size.  As I say in the article it is small enough to get lots of railroad in a give space, yet large enough to be very highly detailed and operate very well.  Model railroaders of all stripes have to deal with limited space.  This usually causes steep grades and sharp radius curves.  HO narrow gauge uses those necessities to advantage.  We use sharp radius curves and steep grades to replicate the Georgetown Loop, the climb to Alpine Tunnel, the climb up Windy Point, the curve around Chattanooga Loop, the yard in Red Mountain, or at Como, the trackage between the mines in Leadville and so on.  We use that imposed space and size restriction to our advantage in modeling the prototype locations we choose.  We can probably get  two sites into our railroads where the space limitations would limit larger scales to just one.

   Maybe a couple of things to watch out for in HOn3.  One is the equipment.  Be careful of used equipment  Used equipment has often been modified in some way and may not perform as you would expect.  It may have been used a lot and have some operational problems.  As mentioned earlier by you, clearances are a critical factor here.  A narrow gauge K-37 has the clearance requirement of a standard gauge HO 2-8-0, because they were built from such engines.  So, the clearances on the layout need to be larger if you are running that class of locos.  Also snow plows and some maintenance equipment will require larger clearances.

   Secondly, would be to realize modeling narrow gauge is often going to require building things.  A friend moved to HOn3 from N scale, because as he was getting older he was finding it hard to see things and switching to a larger scale helped with that.  He chose HO narrow gauge because it was closer to his usual N scale. But, after he was well into building a layout he began to realize the need to build rolling stock kits, structure kits, detail items and so on.  He was used to just taking the structure out of the box and placing it on the layout.  Same with the cars.  He was not used to having to build things.  As a matter of fact he said he had never really built any kind of model, prior to his entry into HOn3.  So, realize narrow gauge modeling will require building things.  There are a lot of r-t-r rolling stock models out there now, as well as some structure models.  And they are a great help in getting a layout up and running with equipment and some structures. But, stamp mills, specific depots, mills, and other railroad specific structures will take either building a kit, scratch building, or kit bashing. Same for cars.  You can't find a r-t-r model of a DSP&P Charcoal car, a Tiffany reefer, or a 4000 series box car, let alone an HOn3 Pullman Palace Sleeper!

   Others have pointed out many of the other advantages of modeling in HOn3, but these are my answers to your questions. Hope they are of some help!

   Duncan Harvey














<Harvey PG 8-10.pdf>


Re: White Pass & Yukon decals

Climax@...
 

In reference to dry transfers, I had heard someplace that the chemicals that are used in them are now on the endangered list, hazardous, or what ever, which has basically stopped production by those who made them.  If they were made in California I can say that for sure as they ban everything from Ketchup to Mustard if someone doesn't like it.
It would stand to reason that items like that could be made where humanity and politicians are not stacked up on top of each other and get yet get the job done with very little harm done to the environment.  I guess I am just an old fuddy-duddy and have more or less ignored those repressive limitations over the last 73 years and am still on my own two feet.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Veefkind via groups.io"
Sent: Jan 17, 2021 9:29 AM
To: hon3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] White Pass & Yukon decals

Thanks Rob   the cds decals dried up and (to me ) are useless. I emailed Republic and no answer yet. Have you ever seen the PFM model of # 70 ?  Thanks esp.John and others for the help   Bob V.
 
In a message dated 1/17/2021 4:41:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ionhoss@... writes:
 
Ozark Miniatures had the CDS line listed up until about a year or so ago, and the link is still there on their website.  I had ordered several sets from them just a couple of years ago, although they did not keep the line of dry transfers running.  I had assumed that they bought the line of dry transfers.  I attempted to make contact via email about a year ago and never got a response.
 
Republic Locomotive Works has WP&YR decals - only in white - and they ship fast.
 
Rob Bell
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3
Waynesville, NC
 
 
 
On Saturday, January 16, 2021, 04:10:41 PM EST, John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:
 
 
Bob
 
CDS Dry Transfers and Robert Sloan Decals were the primary sources of WP&Y lettering.  Both are now long gone, but they occasionally turn up on EBay.
 
Republic Locomotive Works is the only source I know of that currently offers White Pass decals < ">https://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com>.  Republic is basically an N scale narrow gauge supplier, but their decals are available in N, HO, S & O.  This is possibly the widest range of narrow gauge lines currently available, although otherwise often fairly generic.  I believe that these are the Bob Sloan artwork.  See pages 10 & 11 of their listing for White Pass freight, slogans and heralds.
 
A quick scan also finds WestSide, EBT, D&RG, DSP&P, CCR, UPD&G, SR&RL, ET&WNC, OR&W/PRR, generic passenger, Pacific Coast, D&RGW, Mears roads, NCNG, NC&O, Uintah, logging roads, Sumpter Valley, SPNG, Nevada & California, Carson & Colorado, WP&Y, SPC, NPC, North Shore, Gramps tank, Conoco tanck, RGS Goose, D&RGW San Juan train.  Note that their web listing is a bit flaky: you cannot simply go back, but must use their previous, next, or page number links.
 
Labelle also offers freight car decals covering their surprisingly wide range of narrow gauge kits.
 
San Juan Models is mostly Colorado prototype, but also offers a few out of state lines.
 
Not a direct source, but Bill Mosteller of Great Model Railroad Decals < " data-mce-href="https://www.greatdecals.com/>">https://www.greatdecals.com/> has tried to compile a list of all suppliers <https://www.greatdecals.com/Decals.html>.
 
John Stutz
On January 16, 2021 9:02 AM Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust@...> wrote:
 
 

Are they available for hon3 ? Microscale and Thinfilm do not list them.   Bob veefkind


Re: What got you in to HOn3?

Craig Linn
 

Thanks Chris for the file.  And thanks to everyone who has answered so far.  I think this will really help my presentation go a bit further (and to some area’s that I didn’t think of…so thank you.)

Keep em coming!

Craig



On Jan 16, 2021, at 5:22 PM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

Lo rez should you wish to consult it Craig.





Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual
chrislaneon30@...



On Jan 16, 2021, at 3:24 PM, duncan <train3guy@...> wrote:

Hi, Craig,

   You might want to get a copy of the 2009 HOIn3 Annual.  I wrote the lead article.  It was about why HOn3 was perhaps the best scale/gauge combination for modeling narrow gauge railroads. As has been pointed out by several respondents so far, a question about why HOn3 was chosen often includes, or involves, why narrow gauge is chosen.  While closely related they are two slightly different topics.  In addition to the article above, I also gave clinics about every year at Caboose Hobbies, when I worked there, on the topic of Narrow Gauge and why it was such a good choice to model in.

   To directly answer your questions: What got me into HOn3 was the fact I love history.  So, my first HO modeling was of period railroads - wooden cars with truss rods and turnbuckles, false front buildings, fluted domes, diamond stacks, short trains, steep grades, small towns and the like.While in college I had heard about narrow gauge and decided to check it out a bit more.  i bought a LaBell combine and built it.  I instantly liked the looks and proportion of the model.  My girl friend, now my wife - a girl from Denver, gave me a copy of Narrow Gauge in the Rockies (also mentioned by another responder).  I read through it and was fascinated by the history - the Elephant Corral in Denver, the story of the elephants helping a stranded circus train over the mountains, the Face on the Barroom Floor and so much more.  That got me into narrow gauge.  It fit what I was already interested in - period railroading.  And since I was already doing HO modeling, it was natural to check out HOn3.  As I looked at HOn3 and the other narrow gauges I slowly began to realize there was more of everything in HO scale.  That pretty much sealed the deal on HOn3.

   I think the most important of the many things I love about HOn3 is the size.  As I say in the article it is small enough to get lots of railroad in a give space, yet large enough to be very highly detailed and operate very well.  Model railroaders of all stripes have to deal with limited space.  This usually causes steep grades and sharp radius curves.  HO narrow gauge uses those necessities to advantage.  We use sharp radius curves and steep grades to replicate the Georgetown Loop, the climb to Alpine Tunnel, the climb up Windy Point, the curve around Chattanooga Loop, the yard in Red Mountain, or at Como, the trackage between the mines in Leadville and so on.  We use that imposed space and size restriction to our advantage in modeling the prototype locations we choose.  We can probably get  two sites into our railroads where the space limitations would limit larger scales to just one.

   Maybe a couple of things to watch out for in HOn3.  One is the equipment.  Be careful of used equipment  Used equipment has often been modified in some way and may not perform as you would expect.  It may have been used a lot and have some operational problems.  As mentioned earlier by you, clearances are a critical factor here.  A narrow gauge K-37 has the clearance requirement of a standard gauge HO 2-8-0, because they were built from such engines.  So, the clearances on the layout need to be larger if you are running that class of locos.  Also snow plows and some maintenance equipment will require larger clearances.

   Secondly, would be to realize modeling narrow gauge is often going to require building things.  A friend moved to HOn3 from N scale, because as he was getting older he was finding it hard to see things and switching to a larger scale helped with that.  He chose HO narrow gauge because it was closer to his usual N scale. But, after he was well into building a layout he began to realize the need to build rolling stock kits, structure kits, detail items and so on.  He was used to just taking the structure out of the box and placing it on the layout.  Same with the cars.  He was not used to having to build things.  As a matter of fact he said he had never really built any kind of model, prior to his entry into HOn3.  So, realize narrow gauge modeling will require building things.  There are a lot of r-t-r rolling stock models out there now, as well as some structure models.  And they are a great help in getting a layout up and running with equipment and some structures. But, stamp mills, specific depots, mills, and other railroad specific structures will take either building a kit, scratch building, or kit bashing. Same for cars.  You can't find a r-t-r model of a DSP&P Charcoal car, a Tiffany reefer, or a 4000 series box car, let alone an HOn3 Pullman Palace Sleeper!

   Others have pointed out many of the other advantages of modeling in HOn3, but these are my answers to your questions. Hope they are of some help!

   Duncan Harvey














<Harvey PG 8-10.pdf>


Re: Rio Grande Models trucks

Brian Kopp
 

Jesse,
here is my truck building jig that works for Rio Grande HOn3 trucks. The truck is built upside down with the bolster sitting along the plastic stock. I glue one sideframe to the bolster first using medium ACC. Place the glued assembly (bolster and one sideframe) in the jig with the second sideframe. You can then pivot the sideframes to work the wheelsets in before gluing the second sideframe.

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


White Pass & Yukon decals

Robert Veefkind <snookdust@...>
 

Thanks Rob   the cds decals dried up and (to me ) are useless. I emailed Republic and no answer yet. Have you ever seen the PFM model of # 70 ?  Thanks esp.John and others for the help   Bob V.
 

In a message dated 1/17/2021 4:41:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ionhoss@... writes:
 
Ozark Miniatures had the CDS line listed up until about a year or so ago, and the link is still there on their website.  I had ordered several sets from them just a couple of years ago, although they did not keep the line of dry transfers running.  I had assumed that they bought the line of dry transfers.  I attempted to make contact via email about a year ago and never got a response.
 
Republic Locomotive Works has WP&YR decals - only in white - and they ship fast.
 
Rob Bell
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3
Waynesville, NC
 
 
 
On Saturday, January 16, 2021, 04:10:41 PM EST, John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:
 
 
Bob
 
CDS Dry Transfers and Robert Sloan Decals were the primary sources of WP&Y lettering.  Both are now long gone, but they occasionally turn up on EBay.
 
Republic Locomotive Works is the only source I know of that currently offers White Pass decals < ">https://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com>.  Republic is basically an N scale narrow gauge supplier, but their decals are available in N, HO, S & O.  This is possibly the widest range of narrow gauge lines currently available, although otherwise often fairly generic.  I believe that these are the Bob Sloan artwork.  See pages 10 & 11 of their listing for White Pass freight, slogans and heralds.
 
A quick scan also finds WestSide, EBT, D&RG, DSP&P, CCR, UPD&G, SR&RL, ET&WNC, OR&W/PRR, generic passenger, Pacific Coast, D&RGW, Mears roads, NCNG, NC&O, Uintah, logging roads, Sumpter Valley, SPNG, Nevada & California, Carson & Colorado, WP&Y, SPC, NPC, North Shore, Gramps tank, Conoco tanck, RGS Goose, D&RGW San Juan train.  Note that their web listing is a bit flaky: you cannot simply go back, but must use their previous, next, or page number links.
 
Labelle also offers freight car decals covering their surprisingly wide range of narrow gauge kits.
 
San Juan Models is mostly Colorado prototype, but also offers a few out of state lines.
 
Not a direct source, but Bill Mosteller of Great Model Railroad Decals < " data-mce-href="https://www.greatdecals.com/>">https://www.greatdecals.com/> has tried to compile a list of all suppliers <https://www.greatdecals.com/Decals.html>.
 
John Stutz
On January 16, 2021 9:02 AM Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust@...> wrote:
 
 

Are they available for hon3 ? Microscale and Thinfilm do not list them.   Bob veefkind


Re: White Pass & Yukon decals

Robert Bell
 

Ozark Miniatures had the CDS line listed up until about a year or so ago, and the link is still there on their website.  I had ordered several sets from them just a couple of years ago, although they did not keep the line of dry transfers running.  I had assumed that they bought the line of dry transfers.  I attempted to make contact via email about a year ago and never got a response.

Republic Locomotive Works has WP&YR decals - only in white - and they ship fast.

Rob Bell
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3
Waynesville, NC




On Saturday, January 16, 2021, 04:10:41 PM EST, John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:


Bob

CDS Dry Transfers and Robert Sloan Decals were the primary sources of WP&Y lettering.  Both are now long gone, but they occasionally turn up on EBay.

Republic Locomotive Works is the only source I know of that currently offers White Pass decals < ">https://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com>.  Republic is basically an N scale narrow gauge supplier, but their decals are available in N, HO, S & O.  This is possibly the widest range of narrow gauge lines currently available, although otherwise often fairly generic.  I believe that these are the Bob Sloan artwork.  See pages 10 & 11 of their listing for White Pass freight, slogans and heralds.

A quick scan also finds WestSide, EBT, D&RG, DSP&P, CCR, UPD&G, SR&RL, ET&WNC, OR&W/PRR, generic passenger, Pacific Coast, D&RGW, Mears roads, NCNG, NC&O, Uintah, logging roads, Sumpter Valley, SPNG, Nevada & California, Carson & Colorado, WP&Y, SPC, NPC, North Shore, Gramps tank, Conoco tanck, RGS Goose, D&RGW San Juan train.  Note that their web listing is a bit flaky: you cannot simply go back, but must use their previous, next, or page number links.

Labelle also offers freight car decals covering their surprisingly wide range of narrow gauge kits.

San Juan Models is mostly Colorado prototype, but also offers a few out of state lines.

Not a direct source, but Bill Mosteller of Great Model Railroad Decals < " data-mce-href="https://www.greatdecals.com/>">https://www.greatdecals.com/> has tried to compile a list of all suppliers <https://www.greatdecals.com/Decals.html>.

John Stutz
On January 16, 2021 9:02 AM Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust@...> wrote:



Are they available for hon3 ? Microscale and Thinfilm do not list them.   Bob veefkind


Re: Rio Grande Models trucks

John Stutz
 

Jesse

There are high impact grades of ACC.  These are typically of medium viscosity and moderate setting time.  Check out the local model aircraft supply source - they need the high impact strength in landing gear & etc.  As do the drone flying folk.

If you have the NG&SLG disc, check out Boone Morrison's articles.  I believe that he did one on assembling these trucks.  Jim Vail may also have written on this subject.

John Stutz

On January 16, 2021 7:15 PM Jesse Day <jesseadayii@...> wrote:


Greetings all. I am hoping that someone around here might be able to offer up a little advice regarding the assembly of RGM white metal tricks. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a couple dozen pairs of trucks just before Eric closed up shop. The problem I have is that although I have assembled several white metal vehicle kits, I have absolutely no experience in the assembly of white metal trucks. It seems to me that CA works fine for static models I am afraid it wouldn't hold up to the rigors of constant flexing and movement required for operational truck sets on my layout. Anyone have suggestions or comments regarding the durability and assembly? I would greatly appreciate any help I can get.


Re: Rio Grande Models trucks

Wayne
 

I'd use 5 minute epoxy.  It gives you a few minutes working time for adjustments and when cured the bond can't be broken.


On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 9:02 PM Steve Hatch <hatch@...> wrote:
  Just be sure you use low temperature bismuth alloy solder.
 you will melt the frames if you use lead solder.
You can use two part epoxy instead if you prefer.  It sticks very well.
-Steve Hatch



--
Wayne Taylor


Re: Rio Grande Models trucks

Steve Hatch
 

  Just be sure you use low temperature bismuth alloy solder.
 you will melt the frames if you use lead solder.
You can use two part epoxy instead if you prefer.  It sticks very well.
-Steve Hatch


Re: Rio Grande Models trucks

Climax@...
 

The white metal trucks I have seen all seem to have a dash of solder on the inside between the side frame and bolster.
DB

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Day
Sent: Jan 16, 2021 10:15 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Rio Grande Models trucks

Greetings all. I am hoping that someone around here might be able to offer up a little advice regarding the assembly of RGM white metal tricks. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a couple dozen pairs of trucks just before Eric closed up shop. The problem I have is that although I have assembled several white metal vehicle kits, I have absolutely no experience in the assembly of white metal trucks. It seems to me that CA works fine for static models I am afraid it wouldn't hold up to the rigors of constant flexing and movement required for operational truck sets on my layout. Anyone have suggestions or comments regarding the durability and assembly? I would greatly appreciate any help I can get.


Rio Grande Models trucks

Jesse Day
 

Greetings all. I am hoping that someone around here might be able to offer up a little advice regarding the assembly of RGM white metal tricks. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a couple dozen pairs of trucks just before Eric closed up shop. The problem I have is that although I have assembled several white metal vehicle kits, I have absolutely no experience in the assembly of white metal trucks. It seems to me that CA works fine for static models I am afraid it wouldn't hold up to the rigors of constant flexing and movement required for operational truck sets on my layout. Anyone have suggestions or comments regarding the durability and assembly? I would greatly appreciate any help I can get.


Re: A Helix tale, Part 1 The Construction

Mike Conder
 

My thought exactly!  We jus tried that a year ago ...

Mike Conder

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 2:24 PM Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:
Hope your furnace doesn’t have to be replaced!

But, the furnace service guy, even of slim build who must crawl inside the helix to do his work, might have another opinion. 🙂 Working by the hour he's never complained. 

Don Bergman
Holland, MI.


--
Mike Conder


Re: What got you in to HOn3?

gnorwood6 gnorwood6
 

What got me into HOn3?
Finding a copy of "Narrow Gauge in the Rockies" by Beebe and Clegg.
It was all so interesting until I got to the last chapter on the RGS. That was it!
At the time an HOn3 K27 was $75. Could not afford that but a United SP #9 for $25 was OK. So in 1964 I started scratch building SP cars in HOn3.
By the mid 1970's I could afford the price for Westside K27 and a start was made on my RGS layout and a large increase in the amount of rolling stock.
The SP equipment was sold off. By a chance in the 1990's I managed to buy back some of my old SP freight cars. Now I have 5 SP HOn3 locos and 40 plus freight cars. Looks a bit odd to see SP #9 and a sting of SP cars popping out of the snowshed at Lizard Head.

Thanks to the covid19 lockdown and retirement I have continued building structures for Keeler on the SP and more freight cars.  
After 57 years my interest in HOn3 has not diminished. I just like narrow gauge trains.
Gary 



------ Original Message ------
From: "Craig Linn" <drgw346@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 17 Jan, 2021 At 3:21 AM
Subject: [HOn3] What got you in to HOn3?

Hi Everyone,

I'm getting ready to do a presentation for my railroad club on "The case for HOn3".  I was going to give my view points, but I thought that it might be cool to get a broader viewpoint from a larger group on what got them into HOn3, and then weave that into my presentation.

So my question for you all:

1). What got you into HOn3?  What appealed to you or what was the driving factor that moved you to HOn3
2). What is the one thing you really love about HOn3?
3). What is the one thing you watch out for in HOn3?

For me I've had a love of narrow gauge since a child, coming on family trips to Colorado and South Dakota's Black Hills as long as I can remember.  The small engines and big mountains really got me hooked.  When Blackstone showed up on scene that pretty much helped push me over the edge for HOn3.

What I really love about HOn3 is the tight nit communities.  I think you might say that about many of the scales, but I do feel like I get a wealth of information from many members of this community.  From Jim Vail to Craig Symington to Mike Conder to.....the list goes on and on....all help with any questions we might have and had been/have been always willing to help each other out.

The one thing to watch out for...be aware of your tolerances.  Whether it be for the tolerances on tunnels or for track work or distances between tracks...make sure you be aware and keep an eye on those tolerances.

Hoping this will generate some discussions and will help out with my presentation.  If you have anything you want to contribute, I'd love to hear your experiences.

Thanks,
Craig Linn       


Re: A Helix tale, Part 1 The Construction

Don Bergman
 

Jim,

I read your note and chuckled:  " Hope your furnace doesn’t have to be replaced!" 

Yes, that was another aspect of the project making sure the front sections come out and the joints in the tracks match.    I inspected homes for buyers and am aware of that need.  Most of the time I just told the buyer the age and informed them when they should expect to replace, but added, it can fail at any time.  They typically last 20-25 years.  I condemned a few and told the current owner turn it off and repair or replace before you turn it back on.  MY CO detector probably saved a few lives.  The youngest furnace I condemned was 7 years old.  Something was dripping water slowly on the heat exchanger, likely a manufacturing defect.  I saw a small rust spot , touched it and  a hole opened.    The unit was probably never serviced.  Or the tech did not look close enough to catch it.    One DIY gent put a stud wall in front of the furnace, and it was impossible to service or change the filter, and he was upset with me for calling the defect!

I did replace the 17 year old Hot  heater before doing the scenery on the staging level even though it was working just fine.   They typically go 8-12 years so it was due.

Don


Re: What got you in to HOn3?

claneon30
 

Lo rez should you wish to consult it Craig.





Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual
chrislaneon30@earthlink.net

On Jan 16, 2021, at 3:24 PM, duncan <train3guy@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi, Craig,

You might want to get a copy of the 2009 HOIn3 Annual. I wrote the lead article. It was about why HOn3 was perhaps the best scale/gauge combination for modeling narrow gauge railroads. As has been pointed out by several respondents so far, a question about why HOn3 was chosen often includes, or involves, why narrow gauge is chosen. While closely related they are two slightly different topics. In addition to the article above, I also gave clinics about every year at Caboose Hobbies, when I worked there, on the topic of Narrow Gauge and why it was such a good choice to model in.

To directly answer your questions: What got me into HOn3 was the fact I love history. So, my first HO modeling was of period railroads - wooden cars with truss rods and turnbuckles, false front buildings, fluted domes, diamond stacks, short trains, steep grades, small towns and the like.While in college I had heard about narrow gauge and decided to check it out a bit more. i bought a LaBell combine and built it. I instantly liked the looks and proportion of the model. My girl friend, now my wife - a girl from Denver, gave me a copy of Narrow Gauge in the Rockies (also mentioned by another responder). I read through it and was fascinated by the history - the Elephant Corral in Denver, the story of the elephants helping a stranded circus train over the mountains, the Face on the Barroom Floor and so much more. That got me into narrow gauge. It fit what I was already interested in - period railroading. And since I was already doing HO modeling, it was natural to check out HOn3. As I looked at HOn3 and the other narrow gauges I slowly began to realize there was more of everything in HO scale. That pretty much sealed the deal on HOn3.

I think the most important of the many things I love about HOn3 is the size. As I say in the article it is small enough to get lots of railroad in a give space, yet large enough to be very highly detailed and operate very well. Model railroaders of all stripes have to deal with limited space. This usually causes steep grades and sharp radius curves. HO narrow gauge uses those necessities to advantage. We use sharp radius curves and steep grades to replicate the Georgetown Loop, the climb to Alpine Tunnel, the climb up Windy Point, the curve around Chattanooga Loop, the yard in Red Mountain, or at Como, the trackage between the mines in Leadville and so on. We use that imposed space and size restriction to our advantage in modeling the prototype locations we choose. We can probably get two sites into our railroads where the space limitations would limit larger scales to just one.

Maybe a couple of things to watch out for in HOn3. One is the equipment. Be careful of used equipment Used equipment has often been modified in some way and may not perform as you would expect. It may have been used a lot and have some operational problems. As mentioned earlier by you, clearances are a critical factor here. A narrow gauge K-37 has the clearance requirement of a standard gauge HO 2-8-0, because they were built from such engines. So, the clearances on the layout need to be larger if you are running that class of locos. Also snow plows and some maintenance equipment will require larger clearances.

Secondly, would be to realize modeling narrow gauge is often going to require building things. A friend moved to HOn3 from N scale, because as he was getting older he was finding it hard to see things and switching to a larger scale helped with that. He chose HO narrow gauge because it was closer to his usual N scale. But, after he was well into building a layout he began to realize the need to build rolling stock kits, structure kits, detail items and so on. He was used to just taking the structure out of the box and placing it on the layout. Same with the cars. He was not used to having to build things. As a matter of fact he said he had never really built any kind of model, prior to his entry into HOn3. So, realize narrow gauge modeling will require building things. There are a lot of r-t-r rolling stock models out there now, as well as some structure models. And they are a great help in getting a layout up and running with equipment and some structures. But, stamp mills, specific depots, mills, and other railroad specific structures will take either building a kit, scratch building, or kit bashing. Same for cars. You can't find a r-t-r model of a DSP&P Charcoal car, a Tiffany reefer, or a 4000 series box car, let alone an HOn3 Pullman Palace Sleeper!

Others have pointed out many of the other advantages of modeling in HOn3, but these are my answers to your questions. Hope they are of some help!

Duncan Harvey








Re: What got you in to HOn3?

duncan
 

Hi, Craig,

    You might want to get a copy of the 2009 HOIn3 Annual.  I wrote the lead article.  It was about why HOn3 was perhaps the best scale/gauge combination for modeling narrow gauge railroads. As has been pointed out by several respondents so far, a question about why HOn3 was chosen often includes, or involves, why narrow gauge is chosen.  While closely related they are two slightly different topics.  In addition to the article above, I also gave clinics about every year at Caboose Hobbies, when I worked there, on the topic of Narrow Gauge and why it was such a good choice to model in.

    To directly answer your questions: What got me into HOn3 was the fact I love history.  So, my first HO modeling was of period railroads - wooden cars with truss rods and turnbuckles, false front buildings, fluted domes, diamond stacks, short trains, steep grades, small towns and the like.While in college I had heard about narrow gauge and decided to check it out a bit more.  i bought a LaBell combine and built it.  I instantly liked the looks and proportion of the model.  My girl friend, now my wife - a girl from Denver, gave me a copy of Narrow Gauge in the Rockies (also mentioned by another responder).  I read through it and was fascinated by the history - the Elephant Corral in Denver, the story of the elephants helping a stranded circus train over the mountains, the Face on the Barroom Floor and so much more.  That got me into narrow gauge.  It fit what I was already interested in - period railroading.  And since I was already doing HO modeling, it was natural to check out HOn3.  As I looked at HOn3 and the other narrow gauges I slowly began to realize there was more of everything in HO scale.  That pretty much sealed the deal on HOn3.

    I think the most important of the many things I love about HOn3 is the size.  As I say in the article it is small enough to get lots of railroad in a give space, yet large enough to be very highly detailed and operate very well.  Model railroaders of all stripes have to deal with limited space.  This usually causes steep grades and sharp radius curves.  HO narrow gauge uses those necessities to advantage.  We use sharp radius curves and steep grades to replicate the Georgetown Loop, the climb to Alpine Tunnel, the climb up Windy Point, the curve around Chattanooga Loop, the yard in Red Mountain, or at Como, the trackage between the mines in Leadville and so on.  We use that imposed space and size restriction to our advantage in modeling the prototype locations we choose.  We can probably get  two sites into our railroads where the space limitations would limit larger scales to just one.

    Maybe a couple of things to watch out for in HOn3.  One is the equipment.  Be careful of used equipment  Used equipment has often been modified in some way and may not perform as you would expect.  It may have been used a lot and have some operational problems.  As mentioned earlier by you, clearances are a critical factor here.  A narrow gauge K-37 has the clearance requirement of a standard gauge HO 2-8-0, because they were built from such engines.  So, the clearances on the layout need to be larger if you are running that class of locos.  Also snow plows and some maintenance equipment will require larger clearances.

    Secondly, would be to realize modeling narrow gauge is often going to require building things.  A friend moved to HOn3 from N scale, because as he was getting older he was finding it hard to see things and switching to a larger scale helped with that.  He chose HO narrow gauge because it was closer to his usual N scale. But, after he was well into building a layout he began to realize the need to build rolling stock kits, structure kits, detail items and so on.  He was used to just taking the structure out of the box and placing it on the layout.  Same with the cars.  He was not used to having to build things.  As a matter of fact he said he had never really built any kind of model, prior to his entry into HOn3.  So, realize narrow gauge modeling will require building things.  There are a lot of r-t-r rolling stock models out there now, as well as some structure models.  And they are a great help in getting a layout up and running with equipment and some structures. But, stamp mills, specific depots, mills, and other railroad specific structures will take either building a kit, scratch building, or kit bashing.  Same for cars.  You can't find a r-t-r model of a DSP&P Charcoal car, a Tiffany reefer, or a 4000 series box car, let alone an HOn3 Pullman Palace Sleeper!

    Others have pointed out many of the other advantages of modeling in HOn3, but these are my answers to your questions. Hope they are of some help!

    Duncan Harvey


Re: What got you in to HOn3?

duncan
 

Hi, Craig,

    You might want to get a copy of the 2009 HOIn3 Annual.  I wrote the lead article.  It was about why HOn3 was perhaps the best scale/gauge combination for modeling narrow gauge railroads.  As has been pointed out by several respondents so far, a question about why HOn3 was chosen often includes, or involves, why narrow gauge is chosen.  While closely related they are two slightly different topics.  In addition to the article above, I also gave clinics about every year at Caboose Hobbies, when I worked there, on the topic of Narrow Gauge and why it was such a good choice to model in.

    To directly answer your questions: What got me into HOn3 was the fact I love history.  So, my first HO modeling was of period railroads - wooden cars with truss rods and turnbuckles, false front buildings, fluted domes, diamond stacks, short trains, steep grades, small towns and the like.While in college I had heard about narrow gauge and decided to check it out a bit more.  i bought a LaBell combine and built it.  I instantly liked the looks and proportion of the model.  My girl friend, now my wife - a girl from Denver, gave me a copy of Narrow Gauge in the Rockies (also mentioned by another responder).  I read through it and was fascinated by the history - the Elephant Corral in Denver, the story of the elephants helping a stranded circus train over the mountains, the Face on the Barroom Floor and so much more.  That got me into narrow gauge.  It fit what I was already interested in - period railroading.  And since I was already doing HO modeling, it was natural to check out HOn3.  As I looked at HOn3 and the other narrow gauges I slowly began to realize there was more of everything in HO scale.  That pretty much sealed the deal on HOn3.

    I think the most important of the many things I love about HOn3 is the size.  As I say in the article it is small enough to get lots of railroad in a give space, yet large enough to be very highly detailed and operate very well.  Model railroaders of all stripes have to deal with limited space.  This usually causes steep grades and sharp radius curves.  HO narrow gauge uses those necessities to advantage.  We use sharp radius curves and steep grades to replicate the Georgetown Loop, the climb to Alpine Tunnel, the climb up Windy Point, the curve around Chattanooga Loop, the yard in Red Mountain, or at Como, the trackage between the mines in Leadville and so on.  We use that imposed space and size restriction to our advantage in modeling the prototype locations we choose.  We can probably get  two sites into our railroads where the space limitations would limit larger scales to just one. 

    Maybe a couple of things to watch out for in HOn3.  One is the equipment.  Be careful of used equipment  Used equipment has often been modified in some way and may not perform as you would expect.  It may have been used a lot and have some operational problems.  As mentioned earlier by you, clearances are a critical factor here.  A narrow gauge K-37 has the clearance requirement of a standard gauge HO 2-8-0, because they were built from such engines.  So, the clearances on the layout need to be larger if you are running that class of locos.  Also snow plows and some maintenance equipment will require larger clearances. 

    Secondly, would be to realize modeling narrow gauge is often going to require building things.  A friend moved to HOn3 from N scale, because as he was getting older he was finding it hard to see things and switching to a larger scale helped with that.  He chose HO narrow gauge because it was closer to his usual N scale.  But, after he was well into building a layout he began to realize the need to build rolling stock kits, structure kits, detail items and so on.  He was used to just taking the structure out of the box and placing it on the layout.  Same with the cars.  He was not used to having to build things.  As a matter of fact he said he had never really built any kind of model, prior to his entry into HOn3.  So, realize narrow gauge modeling will require building things.  There are a lot of r-t-r rolling stock models out there now, as well as some structure models.  And they are a great help in getting a layout up and running with equipment and some structures. But, stamp mills, specific depots, mills, and other railroad specific structures will take either building a kit, scratch building, or kit bashing.  Same for cars.  You can't find a r-t-r model of a DSP&P Charcoal car, a Tiffany reefer, or a 4000 series box car, let alone an HOn3 Pullman Palace Sleeper!

    Others have pointed out many of the other advantages of modeling in HOn3, but these are my answers to your questions.  Hope they are of some help!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Duncan Harvey

   

On 1/16/2021 9:21 AM, Craig Linn wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I'm getting ready to do a presentation for my railroad club on "The case for HOn3".  I was going to give my view points, but I thought that it might be cool to get a broader viewpoint from a larger group on what got them into HOn3, and then weave that into my presentation.

So my question for you all:

1). What got you into HOn3?  What appealed to you or what was the driving factor that moved you to HOn3
2). What is the one thing you really love about HOn3?
3). What is the one thing you watch out for in HOn3?

For me I've had a love of narrow gauge since a child, coming on family trips to Colorado and South Dakota's Black Hills as long as I can remember.  The small engines and big mountains really got me hooked.  When Blackstone showed up on scene that pretty much helped push me over the edge for HOn3.

What I really love about HOn3 is the tight nit communities.  I think you might say that about many of the scales, but I do feel like I get a wealth of information from many members of this community.  From Jim Vail to Craig Symington to Mike Conder to.....the list goes on and on....all help with any questions we might have and had been/have been always willing to help each other out.

The one thing to watch out for...be aware of your tolerances.  Whether it be for the tolerances on tunnels or for track work or distances between tracks...make sure you be aware and keep an eye on those tolerances.

Hoping this will generate some discussions and will help out with my presentation.  If you have anything you want to contribute, I'd love to hear your experiences.

Thanks,
Craig Linn 


Re: A Helix tale, Part 1 The Construction

Jim Marlett
 

Hope your furnace doesn’t have to be replaced!

But, the furnace service guy, even of slim build who must crawl inside the helix to do his work, might have another opinion. 🙂 Working by the hour he's never complained. 

Don Bergman
Holland, MI.



Re: White Pass & Yukon decals

John Stutz
 

Bob

CDS Dry Transfers and Robert Sloan Decals were the primary sources of WP&Y lettering.  Both are now long gone, but they occasionally turn up on EBay.

Republic Locomotive Works is the only source I know of that currently offers White Pass decals < ">https://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com>.  Republic is basically an N scale narrow gauge supplier, but their decals are available in N, HO, S & O.  This is possibly the widest range of narrow gauge lines currently available, although otherwise often fairly generic.  I believe that these are the Bob Sloan artwork.  See pages 10 & 11 of their listing for White Pass freight, slogans and heralds.

A quick scan also finds WestSide, EBT, D&RG, DSP&P, CCR, UPD&G, SR&RL, ET&WNC, OR&W/PRR, generic passenger, Pacific Coast, D&RGW, Mears roads, NCNG, NC&O, Uintah, logging roads, Sumpter Valley, SPNG, Nevada & California, Carson & Colorado, WP&Y, SPC, NPC, North Shore, Gramps tank, Conoco tanck, RGS Goose, D&RGW San Juan train.  Note that their web listing is a bit flaky: you cannot simply go back, but must use their previous, next, or page number links.

Labelle also offers freight car decals covering their surprisingly wide range of narrow gauge kits.

San Juan Models is mostly Colorado prototype, but also offers a few out of state lines.

Not a direct source, but Bill Mosteller of Great Model Railroad Decals < " data-mce-href="https://www.greatdecals.com/>">https://www.greatdecals.com/> has tried to compile a list of all suppliers <https://www.greatdecals.com/Decals.html>.

John Stutz

On January 16, 2021 9:02 AM Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust@...> wrote:



Are they available for hon3 ? Microscale and Thinfilm do not list them.   Bob veefkind
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