Date   

Re: HOn3 Drivers

John Hutnick
 

For all of our discussion re British drivers, do they sell axles for HOn3?


Re: HOn3 Drivers

Nigel Phillips
 

The other UK supplier I use is Ultrascale (ultrascale.uk), pricy but high quality. They mostly make to order, long wait (currently 5 months). They do commission work. May not have rimless tires, probably do them to order. I get my EM gauge wheels from them (18.2mm) when converting RTR OO models.

Nigel

On Friday, March 12, 2021, Eric Schrowang <eschrowang@...> wrote:
Are there any suppliers of HOn3 drivers? I know Precision Scale has unmachined ones. I would rather not invest in a lathe and milling machine at this point.

Thank You 
Eric 


Re: HOn3 Drivers

Climax@...
 

Its going to take me a while to use Floquil Silver paint on them!

-----Original Message-----
From: "kevin b via groups.io"
Sent: Mar 13, 2021 9:56 AM
To: "HOn3@groups.io"
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOn3 Drivers

lol,,, er yea, 'cept the brits want that in silver, not copper.....
Kevion.

On Saturday, March 13, 2021, 08:55:08 AM CST, <climax@...> wrote:


I just did a conversion and found that two rolls of pennies ($1.00) equals a Pound.
snicker.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "kevin b via groups.io"
Sent: Mar 13, 2021 9:50 AM
To: "HOn3@groups.io"
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOn3 Drivers

to all:
had a look at the website:
prices are in pounds, so i did a quick check on a conversion table.
1 driver is 3.6 pounds, which turned out to be 5.1 US dollars.
personally, i don't think that's too bad.
'course, you need axles, and contact wipers, and i suppose, connecting rods and  crank pins, didn't see those, but did not study the website to death either.
as for shipping?
no idea.
i am giving serious consideration towards making an order for a future loco project.

Kevin.


https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Locomotive_Driving_Wheels_.html

They even offer an HOn3 axle to match their square wheel hubs.

Kent


Re: HOn3 Drivers

kevin b
 

lol,,, er yea, 'cept the brits want that in silver, not copper.....
Kevion.

On Saturday, March 13, 2021, 08:55:08 AM CST, <climax@...> wrote:


I just did a conversion and found that two rolls of pennies ($1.00) equals a Pound.
snicker.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "kevin b via groups.io"
Sent: Mar 13, 2021 9:50 AM
To: "HOn3@groups.io"
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOn3 Drivers

to all:
had a look at the website:
prices are in pounds, so i did a quick check on a conversion table.
1 driver is 3.6 pounds, which turned out to be 5.1 US dollars.
personally, i don't think that's too bad.
'course, you need axles, and contact wipers, and i suppose, connecting rods and  crank pins, didn't see those, but did not study the website to death either.
as for shipping?
no idea.
i am giving serious consideration towards making an order for a future loco project.

Kevin.


https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Locomotive_Driving_Wheels_.html

They even offer an HOn3 axle to match their square wheel hubs.

Kent


Re: HOn3 Drivers

Climax@...
 

I just did a conversion and found that two rolls of pennies ($1.00) equals a Pound.
snicker.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "kevin b via groups.io"
Sent: Mar 13, 2021 9:50 AM
To: "HOn3@groups.io"
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOn3 Drivers

to all:
had a look at the website:
prices are in pounds, so i did a quick check on a conversion table.
1 driver is 3.6 pounds, which turned out to be 5.1 US dollars.
personally, i don't think that's too bad.
'course, you need axles, and contact wipers, and i suppose, connecting rods and  crank pins, didn't see those, but did not study the website to death either.
as for shipping?
no idea.
i am giving serious consideration towards making an order for a future loco project.

Kevin.


https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Locomotive_Driving_Wheels_.html

They even offer an HOn3 axle to match their square wheel hubs.

Kent


Re: HOn3 Drivers

Alan Kilby
 

Bachmann sells drivers reasonably priced look at their site under order parts.
Alan


Re: HOn3 Drivers

kevin b
 

to all:
had a look at the website:
prices are in pounds, so i did a quick check on a conversion table.
1 driver is 3.6 pounds, which turned out to be 5.1 US dollars.
personally, i don't think that's too bad.
'course, you need axles, and contact wipers, and i suppose, connecting rods and  crank pins, didn't see those, but did not study the website to death either.
as for shipping?
no idea.
i am giving serious consideration towards making an order for a future loco project.

Kevin.


https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Locomotive_Driving_Wheels_.html

They even offer an HOn3 axle to match their square wheel hubs.

Kent


Re: HOn3 Drivers

martin feldwick
 

PSC also make a full set of C16 drivers with tyres.A UK company Markits make some H0n3 drivers and axles or at least used to .It’s not a speedy company to deal with evidently .
Hope it helps
Martin

On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 at 07:56, John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:
Eric

NWSL once offered 45" square counterweight HOn3 driver sets, and they may occasionally turn up.  Wiseman has offered the SSL kit (advertised but never sold under their name) for the NPC cab forward 4-4-0, which apparently used the NWSL drivers, also a chassis kit that included two pair of drivers.  I do not know if either is still available.

Alan Gibson Models, in England, produces a wide range of OO scale drivers, and some of the smallest ones are suitable for HOn3.  The current catalogue is available at http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/Catalogue.pdf.  Diameters are given in OO(4mm scale) feet and inches, or alternately in millimeters, so some conversion is needed: divide the metric diameter by 3.5 and multiply by 12 for HO inches.  These drivers have 1/8" steel axles, engineering resin (delren?) centers and steel tires. Tires are available for OO finescale/EM and S4 "gauges", all 4mm scale but which differ in British modeling practice.  OO/EM tires are roughly the RP25 code 88 profile normally used in HOn3, the wheels supplied with two axles.  S4 are exact OO scale British SG.  Wheel centers are a push fit on axles, so fairly easy to regauge and quarter.  Crank pin holes are pre-molded, and crank pins use a steel screw from the back, with a sleeve bearing retained by a nut.  Due to the very wide variety of counterweights used on British prototypes, these are omitted, so the user can provide an appropriate style. 

The smallest drivers offered are 11mm, 10-spoke, scaling 37.7" in HO.  Plain wheels down to 10.5mm = 36", on 2mm axles, suitable for outside frame engines, are also available. 

John Stutz

On March 12, 2021 6:28 PM Eric Schrowang <eschrowang@...> wrote:
Are there any suppliers of HOn3 drivers? I know Precision Scale has unmachined ones. I would rather not invest in a lathe and milling machine at this point.

Thank You 
Eric 


Re: HOn3 Drivers

John Stutz
 

Eric

NWSL once offered 45" square counterweight HOn3 driver sets, and they may occasionally turn up.  Wiseman has offered the SSL kit (advertised but never sold under their name) for the NPC cab forward 4-4-0, which apparently used the NWSL drivers, also a chassis kit that included two pair of drivers.  I do not know if either is still available.

Alan Gibson Models, in England, produces a wide range of OO scale drivers, and some of the smallest ones are suitable for HOn3.  The current catalogue is available at http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/Catalogue.pdf.  Diameters are given in OO(4mm scale) feet and inches, or alternately in millimeters, so some conversion is needed: divide the metric diameter by 3.5 and multiply by 12 for HO inches.  These drivers have 1/8" steel axles, engineering resin (delren?) centers and steel tires. Tires are available for OO finescale/EM and S4 "gauges", all 4mm scale but which differ in British modeling practice.  OO/EM tires are roughly the RP25 code 88 profile normally used in HOn3, the wheels supplied with two axles.  S4 are exact OO scale British SG.  Wheel centers are a push fit on axles, so fairly easy to regauge and quarter.  Crank pin holes are pre-molded, and crank pins use a steel screw from the back, with a sleeve bearing retained by a nut.  Due to the very wide variety of counterweights used on British prototypes, these are omitted, so the user can provide an appropriate style. 

The smallest drivers offered are 11mm, 10-spoke, scaling 37.7" in HO.  Plain wheels down to 10.5mm = 36", on 2mm axles, suitable for outside frame engines, are also available. 

John Stutz

On March 12, 2021 6:28 PM Eric Schrowang <eschrowang@...> wrote:
Are there any suppliers of HOn3 drivers? I know Precision Scale has unmachined ones. I would rather not invest in a lathe and milling machine at this point.

Thank You 
Eric 


Re: HOn3 Drivers

Kent Hinton
 

https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Locomotive_Driving_Wheels_.html

They even offer an HOn3 axle to match their square wheel hubs.

Kent


Re: HOn3 Drivers

Eric Schrowang
 

Thank you,
The smallest they have is a 51 inch driver. There is a treasure trove for HO and On30 though.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:43 PM Alan Kilby <alankilby@...> wrote:
Greenway products make HO drivers you may be able to regauge them.
Alan


Re: HOn3 Drivers

Alan Kilby
 

Greenway products make HO drivers you may be able to regauge them.
Alan


HOn3 Drivers

Eric Schrowang
 

Are there any suppliers of HOn3 drivers? I know Precision Scale has unmachined ones. I would rather not invest in a lathe and milling machine at this point.

Thank You 
Eric 


Re: HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

martin feldwick
 

On smaller parts I use soft iron flower arranging wire .Its thin and very useful  .

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 5:50 PM Steve Hatch <hatch@...> wrote:
I assembled several C-16's years ago both Hon3 and On3.
I used a 250-400 watt gun as well as a resistance unit.
and a butane torchThe resistance was much easier.
which ever iron you use, you need to get some aluminum wire.
That holds the parts together but will not solder.  Look for it.
It's around still.  Get the 1/16 wire if you can find it.  1/8th works in a pinch.
-Steve Hatch


Re: HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

Steve Hatch
 

I assembled several C-16's years ago both Hon3 and On3.
I used a 250-400 watt gun as well as a resistance unit.
and a butane torchThe resistance was much easier.
which ever iron you use, you need to get some aluminum wire.
That holds the parts together but will not solder.  Look for it.
It's around still.  Get the 1/16 wire if you can find it.  1/8th works in a pinch.
-Steve Hatch


Re: HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

John Hutnick
 

I agree that different solder methods are needed.  I use 2 torches - air-acetylene and oxygen-propane.  Resistance is both tweezers and carbon probe.  Soldering iron/gun is for pre-tinning and wiring.  Typically I use a fair amount of 145C tin-lead-cadmium, otherwise tin/4 percent silver for higher temperature and a strong joint.  I see any number of UK construction articles where only an iron is used.  I do not know how they do it  -- I do not have this ability.  Also, for many in the US, the standards for solder joint appearance are different.  We want ours to emulate Japanese and Korean practice, with no excess and smooth solder fillet joints - no globs permitted.


Re: HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

Climax@...
 

Mike, have you been spying on me, listening in and watching my tirades of looking for that blooming part only to find it across the room 6 months halter on?
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel Phillips
Sent: Mar 11, 2021 9:05 AM
To: "HOn3@groups.io"
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

Soldering iron versus resistance soldering. Difficult to build a brass kit using just one solder if using an iron. Can be done but takes a lot of patience. ideally start using high temperature solder for the major bits and then work down to the details using lower temperature solder. That way you don't melt previous work. Also needs a decent temperature controlled iron and some fine bits. Most kits I have built were not designed with a resistance iron in mind. Those old kits also suffer from less than precise etching (hand vs CAD) and often the wrong grade of brass. Detailing often uses metal castings, best put on with cyanoacrylate rather than solder. Easier than holding a dome in one hand, the iron in another, and the solder in the third one.

Old Korean and Japanese brass was often put together with a torch or large iron (non-electric), the assemblies being presoldered and held together with wire. 

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Oh yeah, I can do that for about $4 ofnahwet brass and my old soldering iron!   And guess how I know? 😉

Mike Conder

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 5:22 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:

But Mike! you are missing out on the joy...and the frustration......and the swearing.....and burned fingers.....and being on your knees looking for that detail you dropped......

THATS what $400 buys!  =)
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

--
Mike Conder


Re: HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

Brian Kopp
 

Nigel,
using wire as a third hand is a great idea. I am always positioning an alligator clip on a flex goose neck or trying some Kapton tape or just leaning pieces against each other. It never occurred to me to use some wire to strap a piece down. I have no excuse since I have a jeweler friend who does this all the time.... Just want to make sure I grab the dead-soft stainless steel wire and don't grab the tinned bus wire. That would make a mess.... =)

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Re: HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

martin feldwick
 

i have made brass master patterns etc for autos,train fittings  and weapons .No easy way to do it .I have also made UK etched loco kits .I tend to use a gas torch and bakers fluid and liquid solder The modern gas torches can get small but hot tips to their flame and  hit a small area with a very hot temperature .So I torch up the large parts ,wire it all up if possible and then  get working on the small parts piping last .I dri.l o/ut castings such as pumps to hold the pipes in place .A gas torch and liquid solder paste means you are not using three hands .its slash and burn and will slaughter your hands .I am sure a resistance unit is the way to go but I just dont do enough  to warrant buying one.Good luck .The unmade kits are around since the 70's because they are bastards to do .I always turned them down despite painting hundreds of brass trains for people.If you want to glue parts on try to pin it on and use araldite to glue it in place .,Its stronger than ACC but still weaker than solder .If you use low melt solder dont for get dont paint and bake or you will get paint and melt .

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:55 PM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:
I have a London Road Models RSU, and I have an Ersa Icon-1 soldering iron.  Since I bought the Icon-1 I have used the RSU very rarely.  Before I bought the Icon-1 I had made/repaired a lot of stuff including a PSC C-16 kit - which is largely the Kemtron design brought up to date -  mostly with the RSU and that worked well. I  also have done many quite complex soldering jobs, brass repairs, scratchbuilding, DCC installs, etc with the Icon-1, and highly recommend it.  It's a variable power and variable temperature military spec machine that can keep the tip at the set temperature +/- about 5degC.  If need be it can do 150W if the tip is trying to heat something big, but mostly runs a lot less than that.  

Bottom line is that if you have a high-powered soldering iron (50W or more) small enough to get into the kit parts, then use it and enjoy the kit.  If you need to buy, buy a decent RSU or an Icon-1.    But don't try to assemble a kit like these with a puny iron, or with glue. You will regret it.  

Mick
______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
The week may start M,T but it always ends up WTF!


Re: HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

Mick Moignard
 

I have a London Road Models RSU, and I have an Ersa Icon-1 soldering iron.  Since I bought the Icon-1 I have used the RSU very rarely.  Before I bought the Icon-1 I had made/repaired a lot of stuff including a PSC C-16 kit - which is largely the Kemtron design brought up to date -  mostly with the RSU and that worked well. I  also have done many quite complex soldering jobs, brass repairs, scratchbuilding, DCC installs, etc with the Icon-1, and highly recommend it.  It's a variable power and variable temperature military spec machine that can keep the tip at the set temperature +/- about 5degC.  If need be it can do 150W if the tip is trying to heat something big, but mostly runs a lot less than that.  

Bottom line is that if you have a high-powered soldering iron (50W or more) small enough to get into the kit parts, then use it and enjoy the kit.  If you need to buy, buy a decent RSU or an Icon-1.    But don't try to assemble a kit like these with a puny iron, or with glue. You will regret it.  

Mick
______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
The week may start M,T but it always ends up WTF!

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