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Re: Tarp color

John Stutz
 

On February 13, 2021 8:34 AM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:   What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.
Mark

I think this is a matter of both initial treatment and history of the individual piece of canvas.   As Rick mentioned, raw untreated canvas, typically sailcloth, goes from cream to a grey over time.  Bleached canvas goes from white to grey.  Dyed canvas probably greys more slowly, but still accumulates dust and mud.   Waterproofed canvas in this time frame would have been treated with linseed oil, the binder used in oil paints.  With commercial grade oils, this adds a bit of pale yellow to the canvas, but it also alters the reflective properties, adding a sheen when new, that disappears over time where the the canvas is frequently folded or chafed, and as it weathers toward a grey.  Painted canvas tarps behave similarly.  The painted canvas once used to waterproof passenger car roofs was constantly bombarded by cinders that both erode it and add grey pigment.  Tarred canvas will start black before going to a grey.

The end point grey is partially a matter of UV light darkening the canvas fibers, but mostly one of pigments accumulated from a dusty and dirty environment.  Use outdoors in a steam era railroad environment ensures plenty of smoke exposure, as well as cinder erosion.  Minimal or no ballast on the railroad ensures plentiful exposure to the local dust, and to mud pumped up by poorly bedded ties.  Around railroads there will be frequent exposure to iron dust from brake shoes, which quickly goes to rust.  Rain not only washes off dust and mud, but also washes the finer particles in.  And the covered commodity may make a contribution.  So the basic grey is tinted by a variety of sources. With old canvas, no two pieces are precisely the same shade, and any one may vary over its extent.

The current continental average RR dust/mud/exhaust tint is close to Trailer Train yellow.  Sufficiently so that accumulations can almost completely obscure TT car data fields, without significantly altering the car's body color.  The steam era RR tint was considerably darker, although well short of black, and somewhat redder due to universal use of cast iron brake shoes.  And there will be local variations. For instance, Colorado dust may be greyer than the continental average.

Regarding use of tarps on North American railroads, I am at a loss for examples of such in ordinary train service.  I think their use was limited to extraordinary loads, ones that required protection from weather but were too large to go into a box car.  As such, the tarps were probably regarded as part of the dunnage, intended to be used for the single shipment and then discarded.  Or possibly going to the consignee, as part of the shipment.  I am not aware of any use comparable to the way that British railroads regularly provided company owned tarps to cover open loads, but cannot rule out limited local use.

John Stutz
On February 13, 2021 8:34 AM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:


 What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.

Mark K


Re: Tarp color

Mark Kasprowicz
 

I read somewhere that D&RGW works equipment was painted grey because US Navy paint was availavle cheaply due to overstock?

Mark K


Re: Tarp color

Scott Baker
 

Rick,
That is an interesting point about the tarps being olive drab toward the end of the 40's, I'm assuming there was a lot of military surplus after WW II. 


Re: Tarp color

Rick Rhode <rvrhode@...>
 

From what I have seen in old photos (unfortunately black and white) tarps were light in color (new canvas would be a cream color, old canvas would be weathered to a light to dark grey).  In the 40's, a lot of tarps were olive drab because of their use by the military.

On Saturday, February 13, 2021, 11:34:34 AM EST, Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:


 What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.

Mark K


Tarp color

Mark Kasprowicz
 

 What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.

Mark K


Re: Cutting Clearance Gauges with Cricut

Mike Conder
 

Nice!

Mike Conder

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 12:41 PM Dusty <Dustburm@q.com> wrote:


I used dimensions from NMRA data sheets for the Old-Time/Narrow Gauge Era. I found these via Google. I used a Cricut Maker. The finished product was .040 narrow and .015 tall. Hmmmm....
The most interesting thing for me was the 'outside' template remaining after removing the NMRA Standards Gauge cut out. This template looks like a great way to check equipment clearances on the bench.

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707 


Cutting Clearance Gauges with Cricut

Dusty
 



I used dimensions from NMRA data sheets for the Old-Time/Narrow Gauge Era. I found these via Google. I used a Cricut Maker. The finished product was .040 narrow and .015 tall. Hmmmm....
The most interesting thing for me was the 'outside' template remaining after removing the NMRA Standards Gauge cut out. This template looks like a great way to check equipment clearances on the bench.

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707 


"The RGS Story Vol II Teluride, Pandpra and the Mines Above" Book for sale

dhreinke
 

"The RGS Story Vol II Teluride, Pandpra and the Mines Above"  Book for sale
I have a like new copy of the book in a vinyl dust jacket for sale.

Asking prices is $75 +S&H (your choice of priority and carrier)

Please contact me off list if you are interested;

Thanks,
Doug Reinke
Roselle, IL


WP&Y

Robert Veefkind <snookdust@...>
 


Rob, I have not been able to get back to you for some reason, my e-mails keep getting returned..
The White pass Mikados were fairly modern engines and plain janes compared to the K-28s.  Wikipedia shows some of them with only 16,000 lbs of tractive power and some with 22 or 24,000 lbs.
As a model, they would have more "pizzaz" with a steam injector and 2 single phase air pumps. It may remain a shelf Queen-for now anyway
John    very impressive-your knowledge and knack for information--and taking the time to air it       Bob V.


Re: PFM White pass & Yukon mikado

Robert Bell
 

John and Bob,
I think the PFM 70 class is "closest" to the 70, but not exact.  The real 70 had an air tank on the firman's side AND on the engineer's side.  The model has two on the fireman's side of the boiler - similar to the 72/73.

Rob Bell
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3
Waynesville, NC




On Tuesday, February 9, 2021, 11:12:54 PM EST, John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:


Bob

Attached is a photograph of WP&Y 71, probably taken by the Dedman Studio photographer during initial trials.   This is he online versionof item 05202_141 in the Royal Museum of British Colombia collection. 

The 70 was initially very similar, except 70 had conventionally located air tanks under the left running board, and the exhaust steam injector was on the right side.   Both initially had a single phase air pump on each side, and the narrow bunker tender show here. Both engines were subsequently rebuilt with exhaust steam injectors removed, a cross-compound air pump on the left side, and fitted with much larger former USATC tenders.  The 71 retained the front mounted air tank. I have not attempted to determine the order or timing of these changes, but believe that all occurred after USATC's departure.

The 72 & 73 were supplied in 1947, with single sand dome, a cross-compound air pump, conventional air tanks, and arranged to use USATC tenders.  All four were initially coal burners, and converted to oil in the 1950s.

So I believe that the PFM  model is specific to the rebuilt 70, but should give a reasonable 73 or 73 by removing the rear sand dome. 

John Stutz
On February 8, 2021 1:40 PM Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust@...> wrote:


  Any info on this model with 2 sand domes? Looks like early stuff maybe 1970 or so. The prototype still running at Dollywood. Looks like a good candidate for a Sagami 1630  which are hard to find. There are a few Faulhabers  on ebay but all gearheads. Some of you gents have been finding all kinds of stuff from China, anything close to a long shaft 1630 Sagami ?    Any info is appreciated.  Bob Veefkind


Re: PFM White pass & Yukon mikado

John Stutz
 

Bob

Attached is a photograph of WP&Y 71, probably taken by the Dedman Studio photographer during initial trials.   This is he online versionof item 05202_141 in the Royal Museum of British Colombia collection. 

The 70 was initially very similar, except 70 had conventionally located air tanks under the left running board, and the exhaust steam injector was on the right side.   Both initially had a single phase air pump on each side, and the narrow bunker tender show here. Both engines were subsequently rebuilt with exhaust steam injectors removed, a cross-compound air pump on the left side, and fitted with much larger former USATC tenders.  The 71 retained the front mounted air tank. I have not attempted to determine the order or timing of these changes, but believe that all occurred after USATC's departure.

The 72 & 73 were supplied in 1947, with single sand dome, a cross-compound air pump, conventional air tanks, and arranged to use USATC tenders.  All four were initially coal burners, and converted to oil in the 1950s.

So I believe that the PFM  model is specific to the rebuilt 70, but should give a reasonable 73 or 73 by removing the rear sand dome. 

John Stutz

On February 8, 2021 1:40 PM Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust@...> wrote:


  Any info on this model with 2 sand domes? Looks like early stuff maybe 1970 or so. The prototype still running at Dollywood. Looks like a good candidate for a Sagami 1630  which are hard to find. There are a few Faulhabers  on ebay but all gearheads. Some of you gents have been finding all kinds of stuff from China, anything close to a long shaft 1630 Sagami ?    Any info is appreciated.  Bob Veefkind


Re: Looking for a Roundhouse Hon3 Outside Frame 2-8-0 Kit #472

LenTRaley
 

Eric:

I have what you are seeking. Contact me off-line. 

Be safe and be well,

Len Raley


Re: Looking for a Roundhouse Hon3 Outside Frame 2-8-0 Kit #472

martin feldwick
 

Sorry its ebay UK  so you probably need to alter search  area

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 12:02 PM <Climax@...> wrote:
Must be gone, can't find it on ebay.

-----Original Message-----
From: martin feldwick
Sent: Feb 9, 2021 6:28 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Looking for a Roundhouse Hon3 Outside Frame 2-8-0 Kit #472

 I have a used  outside frame kit .its got an assembled running chassis  that runs fine  with all parts except some smaller details and the front truck wheels which I have put in some others that should work .It also has a spare outside frame ,wheels ,cranks and running gear parts from the  2-4-4-0 Moosejaw conversion  kit .These are mainly plastic except the frame .it includes those elusive  hex crank pin caps .its on Ebay UK but feel free to PM me
best regards
Martin


Re: Looking for a Roundhouse Hon3 Outside Frame 2-8-0 Kit #472

Climax@...
 

Must be gone, can't find it on ebay.

-----Original Message-----
From: martin feldwick
Sent: Feb 9, 2021 6:28 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Looking for a Roundhouse Hon3 Outside Frame 2-8-0 Kit #472

 I have a used  outside frame kit .its got an assembled running chassis  that runs fine  with all parts except some smaller details and the front truck wheels which I have put in some others that should work .It also has a spare outside frame ,wheels ,cranks and running gear parts from the  2-4-4-0 Moosejaw conversion  kit .These are mainly plastic except the frame .it includes those elusive  hex crank pin caps .its on Ebay UK but feel free to PM me
best regards
Martin


Re: Looking for a Roundhouse Hon3 Outside Frame 2-8-0 Kit #472

martin feldwick
 

 I have a used  outside frame kit .its got an assembled running chassis  that runs fine  with all parts except some smaller details and the front truck wheels which I have put in some others that should work .It also has a spare outside frame ,wheels ,cranks and running gear parts from the  2-4-4-0 Moosejaw conversion  kit .These are mainly plastic except the frame .it includes those elusive  hex crank pin caps .its on Ebay UK but feel free to PM me
best regards
Martin


Re: PFM White pass & Yukon mikado

Robert Bell
 

Bob,

All 500 of the PFM 70 class Mikados were built in 1968.  They all had 3-domes.  If you want a two dome version, the easiest is to just remove the rear sand dome.  But, the real 72 and 73 had a larger steam dome and a larger single sand dome.  So, what I did on mine was remove all of the domes, the old steam dome becomes the new sand dome, and a new dome from PSC was installed as the larger steam dome.  On mine, I have also modified/replaced the air pump & piping, air tank, injector pipes, headlight, and running boards to better represent the 72 circa 1959.  

The one running at Dollywood is the 70 which has three domes.

Motor wise, the 15mm square Minibea is perfect.  I think I sent you photos of the motor mount I made for mine.  Use 1mm I.D. silicone tubing (also from China for about $1-$2/meter) to connect the motor shaft to the stock gear train.  I liked this motor so much that I ripped out the 16x30mm Sagami I had installed back in the early 1990s out and sold it on eBay - somebody bid $60 for it.  The motors from China cost me about $20 for 10 of them!!!

If you want more photos of my project, I can send you some.

Rob Bell
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3
Waynesville, NC




On Monday, February 8, 2021, 04:40:17 PM EST, Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust@...> wrote:



  Any info on this model with 2 sand domes? Looks like early stuff maybe 1970 or so. The prototype still running at Dollywood. Looks like a good candidate for a Sagami 1630  which are hard to find. There are a few Faulhabers  on ebay but all gearheads. Some of you gents have been finding all kinds of stuff from China, anything close to a long shaft 1630 Sagami ?    Any info is appreciated.  Bob Veefkind


Re: PFM White pass & Yukon mikado

Robert Veefkind <snookdust@...>
 

 
 
In a message dated 2/8/2021 7:27:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, luggw1@... writes:
 
How about a Minebea 15 mm square with a Hobbytown universal to connect
it to the gear box?

Look at this
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Minebea-15MM-15MM-Square-Mini-DC-Motor-DC-12V-6500RPM-Large-Torque-6-Pole-Rotor-/262928506587>,
for example.

I used one in a Westside SP 4-8-0 for my Dad and it works great.

HTH
Bill Lugg




thanks Bill    I do have a few of those and will take a look-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Re: PFM White pass & Yukon mikado

Bill Lugg
 

How about a Minebea 15 mm square with a Hobbytown universal to connect it to the gear box?

Look at this <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Minebea-15MM-15MM-Square-Mini-DC-Motor-DC-12V-6500RPM-Large-Torque-6-Pole-Rotor-/262928506587>, for example.

I used one in a Westside SP 4-8-0 for my Dad and it works great.

HTH
Bill Lugg

On 2/8/21 2:40 PM, Robert Veefkind via groups.io wrote:

  Any info on this model with 2 sand domes? Looks like early stuff maybe 1970 or so. The prototype still running at Dollywood. Looks like a good candidate for a Sagami 1630  which are hard to find. There are a few Faulhabers  on ebay but all gearheads. Some of you gents have been finding all kinds of stuff from China, anything close to a long shaft 1630 Sagami ?    Any info is appreciated.  Bob Veefkind


PFM White pass & Yukon mikado

Robert Veefkind <snookdust@...>
 


  Any info on this model with 2 sand domes? Looks like early stuff maybe 1970 or so. The prototype still running at Dollywood. Looks like a good candidate for a Sagami 1630  which are hard to find. There are a few Faulhabers  on ebay but all gearheads. Some of you gents have been finding all kinds of stuff from China, anything close to a long shaft 1630 Sagami ?    Any info is appreciated.  Bob Veefkind


Re: buildings

Steve Hatch
 

Combo  stains and paints

1601 - 1620 of 9220