Date   

Re: Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS

Mike Conder
 

That's exactly what I was thinking, Dale. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 7:24 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Mark,
Oh shoot! I thought you had a breakthrough here. Yes, the 705 is an excellent addition to these cars. 

I tried putting the Sergent/Accumate box on these cars when those couplers first came out. But the box was too tall and it restricted the trucks pivot so much that the cars couldn’t even get around a 22” radius! Time wasted but experience gained. 

Since 705’s mate so well with Sharons. I’ll probably convert all my Micro Trains cars to 705’s.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 18:39 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale,

I apologize... the complete 705 coupler and draft gear box, replaces..without modifications...the entire 714 coupler assembly. 

Mark Lewis 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 7:23 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m intrigued. The late Dave Garcia and I tried that right after the 705’s came out and there were problems. Like, without the 705’s unique diamond shaped pivot arrangement, we couldn’t get the coupler to center properly all the time. And without the flat spot at the top of that diamond, the little spring kept coming out during reassembly. How did you over come that?

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 17:01 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale, 

Your observations are not 100% correct.  The 705 coupler, when removed from the supplied draft gear box, will drop right into Micro-Trains HOn3 rolling stock coupler box mountings and are a big improvement over the original coupler.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 6:47 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
No, not exactly. While they will fit the footprint of a 714, there are some minute dimensional considerations to replacing 714’s with 705’s. Like 705’s will only work in the coupler box they come in. And all of the bottom half of a cars coupler striker must be removed so that the 705’s box will fit.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 16:38 Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Interesting discussion. 

Are 705's a drop-in replacement for the 714's?

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:32 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m with totally with John here. I love using Sergent’s Sharon Type couplers. They drastically reduce train slack to realistic proportions and they will fit in spaces you could only wish a Kadee 714 would fit into. This is because they don’t absolutely need a coupler box to operate. All they need is 3/16 inch diameter pivot tube and a screw to hold that and the coupler in place.

You can make this pivot tube out of Evergreen tube stock or K&S brass tube or you can scavenge it from the bottom half of a Kedee 714 coupler box. All of these will work equally well.

Kadee’s 58 & 158 couplers represent the late era AAR Type “D” and all eras of the AAR Type “E” couplers. However, scale wise, these couplers are a tad on the large size. Just enough to be slightly noticeable. The rub here is, this tends to make them look a bit too large on any HOn3 equipment.

Sergent AAR Type “E” and Sharon Type couplers are both exact scale representations of their prototypes. The Sharon is just a tad smaller in overall size than the Type “E”. Which makes sense because the Sharons came first by many years.

But, (and this is the really important part) the coupler knuckles and interlocking slots on both types are the same size just as they are on the prototypes. This created backwards compatibility and minimized conversion costs for the railroads.

Sergent Sharon Type couplers look really good on HOn3 equipment. They will readily mate with Kadee 705’s and release from them too!

Sergent Sharon Type couplers and Kadee 714’s are a bit problematic here. While the Sharon’s will usually mate with the 714’s. (If aligned properly) The 714’s usually foul the Sharon release mechanism. You can’t have everything you know.

Dale Buxton



On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 15:21 hiroechan <hiroechan@...> wrote:
I've put the new 705's on over a hundred cars so far, and they do drastically reduce the slack-action that causes bouncing,
They also will mate with the Sergents pretty easily if you line them up correctly. 

--Drew McCann

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 4:58 PM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:
Using a long string of BS hoppers I can imitate the slack when I start and stop.  But once the train is rolling the cars, and especially the caboose, are constantly bobbing back and forth.  I have read articles that suggest using wires that lightly drag on the caboose wheels to reduce the bouncing.

Russ  Norris 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:28 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
Yes and no. Yes, real trains often have springs built into the draftgear, and there is “runout” as the train stretches. But the bounce of the HO kadees is wholly out of scale, and unlike the prototype and its great weight, the cars run in and out as they are being pulled on the layout, giving a most unrealistic visual.


Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Dec 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:

Isn't the so-called "bounce" actually a replication of the way prototype trains work?  Every time I've watched trains start to move, including the Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec, once the engine start in motion the slack between cars is noticeably taken up before they start to move.   That is why I prefer the KaDee couplers over all others.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS

Mike Conder
 

That makes more sense, thanks. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 6:39 PM Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale,

I apologize... the complete 705 coupler and draft gear box, replaces..without modifications...the entire 714 coupler assembly. 

Mark Lewis 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 7:23 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m intrigued. The late Dave Garcia and I tried that right after the 705’s came out and there were problems. Like, without the 705’s unique diamond shaped pivot arrangement, we couldn’t get the coupler to center properly all the time. And without the flat spot at the top of that diamond, the little spring kept coming out during reassembly. How did you over come that?

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 17:01 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale, 

Your observations are not 100% correct.  The 705 coupler, when removed from the supplied draft gear box, will drop right into Micro-Trains HOn3 rolling stock coupler box mountings and are a big improvement over the original coupler.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 6:47 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
No, not exactly. While they will fit the footprint of a 714, there are some minute dimensional considerations to replacing 714’s with 705’s. Like 705’s will only work in the coupler box they come in. And all of the bottom half of a cars coupler striker must be removed so that the 705’s box will fit.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 16:38 Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Interesting discussion. 

Are 705's a drop-in replacement for the 714's?

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:32 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m with totally with John here. I love using Sergent’s Sharon Type couplers. They drastically reduce train slack to realistic proportions and they will fit in spaces you could only wish a Kadee 714 would fit into. This is because they don’t absolutely need a coupler box to operate. All they need is 3/16 inch diameter pivot tube and a screw to hold that and the coupler in place.

You can make this pivot tube out of Evergreen tube stock or K&S brass tube or you can scavenge it from the bottom half of a Kedee 714 coupler box. All of these will work equally well.

Kadee’s 58 & 158 couplers represent the late era AAR Type “D” and all eras of the AAR Type “E” couplers. However, scale wise, these couplers are a tad on the large size. Just enough to be slightly noticeable. The rub here is, this tends to make them look a bit too large on any HOn3 equipment.

Sergent AAR Type “E” and Sharon Type couplers are both exact scale representations of their prototypes. The Sharon is just a tad smaller in overall size than the Type “E”. Which makes sense because the Sharons came first by many years.

But, (and this is the really important part) the coupler knuckles and interlocking slots on both types are the same size just as they are on the prototypes. This created backwards compatibility and minimized conversion costs for the railroads.

Sergent Sharon Type couplers look really good on HOn3 equipment. They will readily mate with Kadee 705’s and release from them too!

Sergent Sharon Type couplers and Kadee 714’s are a bit problematic here. While the Sharon’s will usually mate with the 714’s. (If aligned properly) The 714’s usually foul the Sharon release mechanism. You can’t have everything you know.

Dale Buxton



On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 15:21 hiroechan <hiroechan@...> wrote:
I've put the new 705's on over a hundred cars so far, and they do drastically reduce the slack-action that causes bouncing,
They also will mate with the Sergents pretty easily if you line them up correctly. 

--Drew McCann

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 4:58 PM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:
Using a long string of BS hoppers I can imitate the slack when I start and stop.  But once the train is rolling the cars, and especially the caboose, are constantly bobbing back and forth.  I have read articles that suggest using wires that lightly drag on the caboose wheels to reduce the bouncing.

Russ  Norris 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:28 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
Yes and no. Yes, real trains often have springs built into the draftgear, and there is “runout” as the train stretches. But the bounce of the HO kadees is wholly out of scale, and unlike the prototype and its great weight, the cars run in and out as they are being pulled on the layout, giving a most unrealistic visual.


Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Dec 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:

Isn't the so-called "bounce" actually a replication of the way prototype trains work?  Every time I've watched trains start to move, including the Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec, once the engine start in motion the slack between cars is noticeably taken up before they start to move.   That is why I prefer the KaDee couplers over all others.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Banta Modelworks

Mike Mc
 

Wayne,
I have built many Banta kits, and find them far superior to many other kits, especially previous generations kits.  I have built all the Ophir Loop and Vance Junction Banta Modelworks kits, and if I have any issue, Bill Banta is happy to resolve it quickly.  The most recent kit I completed was the large East Broad Top machine shop, with a 14" x 22" footprint.  It was so well designed and fit together so well that I was able to glue the separate roof sections together as one piece, and I never used the corner trim pieces included to cover up any wall joints at the corners if gaps appeared.  It has lots of opportunity for customization too, which made it lots of fun.  I have several Banta kits that I bought second copies of, simply because I enjoyed them, and will change them around to appear as different structures.

If you are looking for a Ophir Loop structure, the Oilton\Gilton Saloon kit was recently updated and improved, so buy that direct from Banta Modelworks to be sure you have a new one.  The Vance Junction kit I would recommend is the out buildings, since you get to build several old rolling stock cars converted as sheds and the depot which is actually the old passenger car on the ground.  The large Vance Junction structure that looks like the depot is actually the section house.  Technology and instructions constant are refined, so getting a new kit from the manufacturer will contain any changes or edits.  (I have contributed my share of suggestions.)

I have videos for about 15 Banta Modelworks structures, and some background stories on the associated scenes, with 2 videos getting edited this month.  Good luck and reach out if you have any questions.  Bill Banta is also an excellent source for answers.

Stay well,
Mike McCarville

Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ5hQbEZ3p1gc-yB2k6MAcg Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/HOScaleTutorials 


Re: Banta Modelworks

John
 

Bill is a real nice guy. I've met him at the narrow gauge Conventions we've had (remember those?) I wanted to model the Otowi station, so he ran a special set of sides without the windows. Super nice of him😊
His kits are well thought out and go together with no problems. Well written instructions too!
John Peckham
Torrance, CA



On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 7:57 PM, Climax@...
<Climax@...> wrote:
I agree he is a wonderful person.  I needed the Propatina mine but in reverse image.  Although he told me that he could not make a kit like that for me he did allow me to copy the design.  I made a few changes and additions but it will is identifiable.  The wood siding is actually wooden coffee sturing sticks.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rick Rhode via groups.io"
Sent: Dec 20, 2020 9:49 PM
To: "HOn3@groups.io"
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Banta Modelworks

I have built several Banta kits and all have been superb!  Not only that,but Bill Banta is stands 100% behind all his products and will correct any deficiencies immediately. A true gentleman of the hobby.                          

                                                                     Rick Rhode
On Sunday, December 20, 2020, 09:26:20 PM EST, NarrowMinded1 <nathan.kline83@...> wrote:


Checkout Michael McCarville on YouTube. He has built many Banta kits including my Broad Top Mountain Models EBT machine shop kit. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ5hQbEZ3p1gc-yB2k6MAcg


"Anyone out there have experience in assembling Banta Modeworks kits.  They have several good looking deports (in photos anyway) and I'm considering getting one or two, Maybe Ophir and Vance Junction.   I've assembled many Campbell Scale kits and find them to be very good quality.  The Builders In Scale and the Model Masterpieces have been outstanding.  But I know nothing of the Banta models.  Anyone care to give their opinion or experience with these?"
--
Nathan M. Kline
Nate's HOn3 East Broad Top RR & Coal Co.
___________________________________

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/278667960227536
MeWe Group: https://mewe.com/group/5fbb79e7edc4177fe935a858
Nate's Light Iron Hobbies: http://nateslightironhobbies.com
Broad Top Mountain Models: http://broadtopmountainmodels.com


Re: Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS

John Stutz
 

Jim

The old MT 1025 coupler is actually a downsized Kadee 714.  The newer MT 1015, 1016, 1019, and others, were successfully redesigned to eliminate the bounce when pulling, but the redesign has introduced coupler bounce when pushing.   The lighter springs in the MT couplers confines coupler bounce to a shorter length of train.  The new Kadee HOn3 coupler completely eliminates coupler bounce, but remains oversize to be able to couple to 714s.

Sergent's  Sharrons are dead scale for some D&RGW NG cars, and many SG cars.  But Sergent's couplers need to be opened and positioned manually in order to couple, which can be a problem.  See His website at < " data-mce-href="http://www.sergentengineering.com>">http://www.sergentengineering.com>.

John Stutz

On December 20, 2020 9:17 AM Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:


I would really like to get rid of the Kadee bounce. Admittedly, I am not a rivet counter and am much more into smooth operation. My feeling is that Kadee/Microscale N scale couplers are still the same design as the Kadee #714. I would gladly stick with 714s if it weren’t for the bounce, and so far I have. But I really hate that bounce. I guess I should just buy a few of the various other kinds and see what I like.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


Re: Banta Modelworks

Climax@...
 

I agree he is a wonderful person.  I needed the Propatina mine but in reverse image.  Although he told me that he could not make a kit like that for me he did allow me to copy the design.  I made a few changes and additions but it will is identifiable.  The wood siding is actually wooden coffee sturing sticks.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "Rick Rhode via groups.io"
Sent: Dec 20, 2020 9:49 PM
To: "HOn3@groups.io"
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Banta Modelworks

I have built several Banta kits and all have been superb!  Not only that,but Bill Banta is stands 100% behind all his products and will correct any deficiencies immediately. A true gentleman of the hobby.                          

                                                                     Rick Rhode
On Sunday, December 20, 2020, 09:26:20 PM EST, NarrowMinded1 <nathan.kline83@...> wrote:


Checkout Michael McCarville on YouTube. He has built many Banta kits including my Broad Top Mountain Models EBT machine shop kit. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ5hQbEZ3p1gc-yB2k6MAcg


"Anyone out there have experience in assembling Banta Modeworks kits.  They have several good looking deports (in photos anyway) and I'm considering getting one or two, Maybe Ophir and Vance Junction.   I've assembled many Campbell Scale kits and find them to be very good quality.  The Builders In Scale and the Model Masterpieces have been outstanding.  But I know nothing of the Banta models.  Anyone care to give their opinion or experience with these?"
--
Nathan M. Kline
Nate's HOn3 East Broad Top RR & Coal Co.
___________________________________

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/278667960227536
MeWe Group: https://mewe.com/group/5fbb79e7edc4177fe935a858
Nate's Light Iron Hobbies: http://nateslightironhobbies.com
Broad Top Mountain Models: http://broadtopmountainmodels.com


Re: Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS

John Stutz
 

Adding on Wayne's comments: Micro Trains #1015, 1016, 1019 couplers are the same size as the #1025, but much easier to couple than the old #1025 or the Kadee #714.  The 1025 is just a downsized 714.  Both of these can have trouble coupling, when you end up just pushing a car down the track because the coupler do not open.  With the MT 1015 et.al., the spring action is reversed, so the coupler heads yield as two cars come together, and eaisly slip past each other, so that coupling is much more certain. 

As for size, the overall bulk of MT's nominally N-scale couplers is about the same as Sergent's dead scale HO Sharrons,  which are corrrect for some D&RGW NG cars, and many SG cars of the early 1900s.  But the MTs are a lot easier to couple on the road.  See < ">http://www.sergentengineering.com>.

John Stutz

On December 20, 2020 8:38 AM Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:


KaDee HOn3 couplers look way out of proportion on HOn3 rolling stock.  I use Kadee N scale couplers, which are now made by Micro Trains Line (1025).  They look more realistic than the HOn3 couplers and will grip any rolling stock that has an HOn3 coupler perfectly and will also uncouple without any problem.  Being smaller, they also work better on the rolling stock where the coupler size interferes
with the swivel of the trucks.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 9:17 AM Jim Marlett < jmarlett@...> wrote:
Most Colorado narrow gauge railroads used standard gauge couplers. The question really is whether Kadee’s narrow gauge couplers are actually standard gauge size and the so-called “scale" #158s are actually still oversized for standard gauge couplers. Or does it matter that much.

The question I have of #158 users is are there any problems associated with their use. I’m thinking of springs being too strong for the weight of the car and issues with electrical conductivity on Blackstone products. It looks like they would be a darned sight easier to use as #714 replacements than the new #705s.

On Dec 18, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Bodo Rasler < raslerb@...> wrote:

Ray,
 
the head looks to me like HO size and not HOn3…
 
Bodo
 
From:  HOn3@groups.io [mailto:HOn3@groups.ioOn Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2020 00:34
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS
 
I suggest Kadee #158 couplers.  They are dimensionally the same as the #714 couplers.  They don't droop and don't have to be assembled.
-- 
Ray in Colorado 







--
Wayne Taylor


Re: precision oiler

John Stutz
 

Mike has pointed out an interesting supplier.  I noted that they offer some of the Bierchwood Casey metal surfacers, including a brass blackener, which wiil probably substitute for the now lost A-West blackener.

John Stutz

On December 20, 2020 8:25 AM Mike Settle <warbird1@...> wrote:


Try these oilers sold by Timesavers to see if this is what you need. .  Timesavers. They are made for the clock and watch repair business. I have dealt with them before and they are reliable. Clock repair is another one of my hobbies.

Mike Settle


Re: Banta Modelworks

Rick Rhode <rvrhode@...>
 

I have built several Banta kits and all have been superb!  Not only that,but Bill Banta is stands 100% behind all his products and will correct any deficiencies immediately. A true gentleman of the hobby.                          

                                                                     Rick Rhode

On Sunday, December 20, 2020, 09:26:20 PM EST, NarrowMinded1 <nathan.kline83@...> wrote:


Checkout Michael McCarville on YouTube. He has built many Banta kits including my Broad Top Mountain Models EBT machine shop kit. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ5hQbEZ3p1gc-yB2k6MAcg


"Anyone out there have experience in assembling Banta Modeworks kits.  They have several good looking deports (in photos anyway) and I'm considering getting one or two, Maybe Ophir and Vance Junction.   I've assembled many Campbell Scale kits and find them to be very good quality.  The Builders In Scale and the Model Masterpieces have been outstanding.  But I know nothing of the Banta models.  Anyone care to give their opinion or experience with these?"
--
Nathan M. Kline
Nate's HOn3 East Broad Top RR & Coal Co.
___________________________________

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/278667960227536
MeWe Group: https://mewe.com/group/5fbb79e7edc4177fe935a858
Nate's Light Iron Hobbies: http://nateslightironhobbies.com
Broad Top Mountain Models: http://broadtopmountainmodels.com


Re: Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS

Margie & Larry Galkowski
 

I agree with Rob. This is what I have done.
Larry G


Re: DCC and Uintah 2-6-6-2

Paul Sturtz
 

This photo didn't show up so I'm re-posting it here.
Paul


Re: Banta Modelworks

NarrowMinded1
 

Checkout Michael McCarville on YouTube. He has built many Banta kits including my Broad Top Mountain Models EBT machine shop kit. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ5hQbEZ3p1gc-yB2k6MAcg


"Anyone out there have experience in assembling Banta Modeworks kits.  They have several good looking deports (in photos anyway) and I'm considering getting one or two, Maybe Ophir and Vance Junction.   I've assembled many Campbell Scale kits and find them to be very good quality.  The Builders In Scale and the Model Masterpieces have been outstanding.  But I know nothing of the Banta models.  Anyone care to give their opinion or experience with these?"
--
Nathan M. Kline
Nate's HOn3 East Broad Top RR & Coal Co.
___________________________________

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/278667960227536
MeWe Group: https://mewe.com/group/5fbb79e7edc4177fe935a858
Nate's Light Iron Hobbies: http://nateslightironhobbies.com
Broad Top Mountain Models: http://broadtopmountainmodels.com


Re: Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS

Dale Buxton
 

Mark,
Oh shoot! I thought you had a breakthrough here. Yes, the 705 is an excellent addition to these cars. 

I tried putting the Sergent/Accumate box on these cars when those couplers first came out. But the box was too tall and it restricted the trucks pivot so much that the cars couldn’t even get around a 22” radius! Time wasted but experience gained. 

Since 705’s mate so well with Sharons. I’ll probably convert all my Micro Trains cars to 705’s.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 18:39 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale,

I apologize... the complete 705 coupler and draft gear box, replaces..without modifications...the entire 714 coupler assembly. 

Mark Lewis 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 7:23 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m intrigued. The late Dave Garcia and I tried that right after the 705’s came out and there were problems. Like, without the 705’s unique diamond shaped pivot arrangement, we couldn’t get the coupler to center properly all the time. And without the flat spot at the top of that diamond, the little spring kept coming out during reassembly. How did you over come that?

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 17:01 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale, 

Your observations are not 100% correct.  The 705 coupler, when removed from the supplied draft gear box, will drop right into Micro-Trains HOn3 rolling stock coupler box mountings and are a big improvement over the original coupler.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 6:47 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
No, not exactly. While they will fit the footprint of a 714, there are some minute dimensional considerations to replacing 714’s with 705’s. Like 705’s will only work in the coupler box they come in. And all of the bottom half of a cars coupler striker must be removed so that the 705’s box will fit.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 16:38 Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Interesting discussion. 

Are 705's a drop-in replacement for the 714's?

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:32 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m with totally with John here. I love using Sergent’s Sharon Type couplers. They drastically reduce train slack to realistic proportions and they will fit in spaces you could only wish a Kadee 714 would fit into. This is because they don’t absolutely need a coupler box to operate. All they need is 3/16 inch diameter pivot tube and a screw to hold that and the coupler in place.

You can make this pivot tube out of Evergreen tube stock or K&S brass tube or you can scavenge it from the bottom half of a Kedee 714 coupler box. All of these will work equally well.

Kadee’s 58 & 158 couplers represent the late era AAR Type “D” and all eras of the AAR Type “E” couplers. However, scale wise, these couplers are a tad on the large size. Just enough to be slightly noticeable. The rub here is, this tends to make them look a bit too large on any HOn3 equipment.

Sergent AAR Type “E” and Sharon Type couplers are both exact scale representations of their prototypes. The Sharon is just a tad smaller in overall size than the Type “E”. Which makes sense because the Sharons came first by many years.

But, (and this is the really important part) the coupler knuckles and interlocking slots on both types are the same size just as they are on the prototypes. This created backwards compatibility and minimized conversion costs for the railroads.

Sergent Sharon Type couplers look really good on HOn3 equipment. They will readily mate with Kadee 705’s and release from them too!

Sergent Sharon Type couplers and Kadee 714’s are a bit problematic here. While the Sharon’s will usually mate with the 714’s. (If aligned properly) The 714’s usually foul the Sharon release mechanism. You can’t have everything you know.

Dale Buxton



On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 15:21 hiroechan <hiroechan@...> wrote:
I've put the new 705's on over a hundred cars so far, and they do drastically reduce the slack-action that causes bouncing,
They also will mate with the Sergents pretty easily if you line them up correctly. 

--Drew McCann

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 4:58 PM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:
Using a long string of BS hoppers I can imitate the slack when I start and stop.  But once the train is rolling the cars, and especially the caboose, are constantly bobbing back and forth.  I have read articles that suggest using wires that lightly drag on the caboose wheels to reduce the bouncing.

Russ  Norris 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:28 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
Yes and no. Yes, real trains often have springs built into the draftgear, and there is “runout” as the train stretches. But the bounce of the HO kadees is wholly out of scale, and unlike the prototype and its great weight, the cars run in and out as they are being pulled on the layout, giving a most unrealistic visual.


Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Dec 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:

Isn't the so-called "bounce" actually a replication of the way prototype trains work?  Every time I've watched trains start to move, including the Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec, once the engine start in motion the slack between cars is noticeably taken up before they start to move.   That is why I prefer the KaDee couplers over all others.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS

Mark Lewis
 

Dale,

I apologize... the complete 705 coupler and draft gear box, replaces..without modifications...the entire 714 coupler assembly. 

Mark Lewis 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 7:23 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m intrigued. The late Dave Garcia and I tried that right after the 705’s came out and there were problems. Like, without the 705’s unique diamond shaped pivot arrangement, we couldn’t get the coupler to center properly all the time. And without the flat spot at the top of that diamond, the little spring kept coming out during reassembly. How did you over come that?

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 17:01 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale, 

Your observations are not 100% correct.  The 705 coupler, when removed from the supplied draft gear box, will drop right into Micro-Trains HOn3 rolling stock coupler box mountings and are a big improvement over the original coupler.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 6:47 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
No, not exactly. While they will fit the footprint of a 714, there are some minute dimensional considerations to replacing 714’s with 705’s. Like 705’s will only work in the coupler box they come in. And all of the bottom half of a cars coupler striker must be removed so that the 705’s box will fit.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 16:38 Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Interesting discussion. 

Are 705's a drop-in replacement for the 714's?

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:32 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m with totally with John here. I love using Sergent’s Sharon Type couplers. They drastically reduce train slack to realistic proportions and they will fit in spaces you could only wish a Kadee 714 would fit into. This is because they don’t absolutely need a coupler box to operate. All they need is 3/16 inch diameter pivot tube and a screw to hold that and the coupler in place.

You can make this pivot tube out of Evergreen tube stock or K&S brass tube or you can scavenge it from the bottom half of a Kedee 714 coupler box. All of these will work equally well.

Kadee’s 58 & 158 couplers represent the late era AAR Type “D” and all eras of the AAR Type “E” couplers. However, scale wise, these couplers are a tad on the large size. Just enough to be slightly noticeable. The rub here is, this tends to make them look a bit too large on any HOn3 equipment.

Sergent AAR Type “E” and Sharon Type couplers are both exact scale representations of their prototypes. The Sharon is just a tad smaller in overall size than the Type “E”. Which makes sense because the Sharons came first by many years.

But, (and this is the really important part) the coupler knuckles and interlocking slots on both types are the same size just as they are on the prototypes. This created backwards compatibility and minimized conversion costs for the railroads.

Sergent Sharon Type couplers look really good on HOn3 equipment. They will readily mate with Kadee 705’s and release from them too!

Sergent Sharon Type couplers and Kadee 714’s are a bit problematic here. While the Sharon’s will usually mate with the 714’s. (If aligned properly) The 714’s usually foul the Sharon release mechanism. You can’t have everything you know.

Dale Buxton



On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 15:21 hiroechan <hiroechan@...> wrote:
I've put the new 705's on over a hundred cars so far, and they do drastically reduce the slack-action that causes bouncing,
They also will mate with the Sergents pretty easily if you line them up correctly. 

--Drew McCann

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 4:58 PM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:
Using a long string of BS hoppers I can imitate the slack when I start and stop.  But once the train is rolling the cars, and especially the caboose, are constantly bobbing back and forth.  I have read articles that suggest using wires that lightly drag on the caboose wheels to reduce the bouncing.

Russ  Norris 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:28 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
Yes and no. Yes, real trains often have springs built into the draftgear, and there is “runout” as the train stretches. But the bounce of the HO kadees is wholly out of scale, and unlike the prototype and its great weight, the cars run in and out as they are being pulled on the layout, giving a most unrealistic visual.


Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Dec 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:

Isn't the so-called "bounce" actually a replication of the way prototype trains work?  Every time I've watched trains start to move, including the Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec, once the engine start in motion the slack between cars is noticeably taken up before they start to move.   That is why I prefer the KaDee couplers over all others.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Couplers for HOn3 (Was Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS)

Dale Buxton
 

Well, I’ve watched trainmen in Chama use brake clubs to align couplers prior to coupling up to them. So even the full size stuff occasionally needs to do this drill. 

I created a printed coupler box that would self center a Sergent Sharon coupler and I sell them on Shapeways. Sales are almost non-existent as it is not really that big of an issue to align the couplers the way the real railroads do it. I knew they would not be a product of high demand even before I started.  I mostly created the coupler boxes to prove the the Sergent coupler could be made to self-center.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 17:51 Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:
Since we have drifted from the original topic, I have changed the subject heading.

I wonder if you use picks for uncoupling and took the Sergents plan of having to align the couplers prior to coupling, would there be any other problems with not having centering couplers? 

On Dec 20, 2020, at 6:23 PM, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

I’m intrigued. The late Dave Garcia and I tried that right after the 705’s came out and there were problems. Like, without the 705’s unique diamond shaped pivot arrangement, we couldn’t get the coupler to center properly all the time. And without the flat spot at the top of that diamond, the little spring kept coming out during reassembly. How did you over come that?

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 17:01 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale, 

Your observations are not 100% correct.  The 705 coupler, when removed from the supplied draft gear box, will drop right into Micro-Trains HOn3 rolling stock coupler box mountings and are a big improvement over the original coupler.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. 


Re: Banta Modelworks

Steven Haworth
 

I've built many Banta kits - see my Blog (below for link) for photos.  Vance Jct and its outbuildings goes together very nicely.  Windows are all laser-cut, not plastic, and that adds a lot.  Construction and design is excellent, and the results are excellent as well.  Highly recommended !!

- Steve Haworth
RGS history - http://www.rgsrr.com/
Blog - http://rgsrr.blogspot.com/               FB - https://www.facebook.com/stevesrgs/


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM Jeff Young <jeff@...> wrote:
Two different beasts there: Campbell, BIS and MM are craftsman kits while Banta are laser cut.

That being said, I’d say the Banta are definitely higher quality than Campbell, and even a slight nudge above the other two.

(But if woodgrain going the wrong way annoys you then you’ll need to do some corrective action with any laser kit.)





Re: DCC and Uintah 2-6-6-2

Dale Buxton
 

Contact “The Shay Fixer” he has a great many PFM Uintah and Sumpter Valley 2-6-6-2 repair parts.

Dale Buxton




On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 11:36 cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com> wrote:
I am sitting here looking at my PFM 2-6-6-2.  I have it apart; it is unpainted, and I have a split gear on the drive mechanism.  I am ignorant of most of what I have read here about gear sizes, etc.  I contacted NWSL and they did not have the replacement gear but suggested I use one of their Hi-Lo drives.  Ok, now you know where I have been.  The question is about DCC.  There is not much empty space in this model.  But, if I am going to use it, which I would very much like to do, I would want DCC and sound.  And LED lighting.  And a keep alive circuit!  LOL!  talk about 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag!  I am thinking if the boiler weight is removed, there may be enough room for the electronics (a TSU2 will fit inside)-the speaker can be in the coal bin (no tube vents-or maybe fake ones).  Actually, looking at the coal bin, perhaps if I cut open the bottom of it, there would be enough room for a sugar cube inside and then I could multiply the vent tube "holes" to let the sound out.  This would be almost easy if there were no wires.  The water tanks can be filled with liquid gravity or some other heavy material to recapture the mass of the boiler weight.  Has anyone out there done this modification? If so, a photo or two or a billion words would be appreciated.
ol' bill
P.S.  as an "out" I do have an aux water car...almost makes the mod easy...Except for those dang wires! 


Re: Couplers for HOn3 (Was Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS)

Jim Marlett
 

Since we have drifted from the original topic, I have changed the subject heading.

I wonder if you use picks for uncoupling and took the Sergents plan of having to align the couplers prior to coupling, would there be any other problems with not having centering couplers? 

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Dec 20, 2020, at 6:23 PM, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

I’m intrigued. The late Dave Garcia and I tried that right after the 705’s came out and there were problems. Like, without the 705’s unique diamond shaped pivot arrangement, we couldn’t get the coupler to center properly all the time. And without the flat spot at the top of that diamond, the little spring kept coming out during reassembly. How did you over come that?

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 17:01 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Dale, 

Your observations are not 100% correct.  The 705 coupler, when removed from the supplied draft gear box, will drop right into Micro-Trains HOn3 rolling stock coupler box mountings and are a big improvement over the original coupler.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C. 


Re: Couplers for Precision Scale HOn3 BRASS

Dale Buxton
 

Mike,  

Dave Garcia talked to a guy he knew inside Kadee just months before his heart surgery that he never totally healed from. This insider told Dave that Kadee was in a rush to finalize the the design of this  project because their lead die cutter was about to retire. There were many meetings and objections to the final design but, this was to be the final design. For almost a year, the couplers were casting one at a time from a one off mold and the springs were custom wound and did not match any other spring size they used.

These are the reasons why these couplers were out of stock for a long spell right after initial release.

Dale Buxton 

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 17:12 Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
That doesn't sound like good product design. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:47 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
No, not exactly. While they will fit the footprint of a 714, there are some minute dimensional considerations to replacing 714’s with 705’s. Like 705’s will only work in the coupler box they come in. And all of the bottom half of a cars coupler striker must be removed so that the 705’s box will fit.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 16:38 Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Interesting discussion. 

Are 705's a drop-in replacement for the 714's?

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:32 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
I’m with totally with John here. I love using Sergent’s Sharon Type couplers. They drastically reduce train slack to realistic proportions and they will fit in spaces you could only wish a Kadee 714 would fit into. This is because they don’t absolutely need a coupler box to operate. All they need is 3/16 inch diameter pivot tube and a screw to hold that and the coupler in place.

You can make this pivot tube out of Evergreen tube stock or K&S brass tube or you can scavenge it from the bottom half of a Kedee 714 coupler box. All of these will work equally well.

Kadee’s 58 & 158 couplers represent the late era AAR Type “D” and all eras of the AAR Type “E” couplers. However, scale wise, these couplers are a tad on the large size. Just enough to be slightly noticeable. The rub here is, this tends to make them look a bit too large on any HOn3 equipment.

Sergent AAR Type “E” and Sharon Type couplers are both exact scale representations of their prototypes. The Sharon is just a tad smaller in overall size than the Type “E”. Which makes sense because the Sharons came first by many years.

But, (and this is the really important part) the coupler knuckles and interlocking slots on both types are the same size just as they are on the prototypes. This created backwards compatibility and minimized conversion costs for the railroads.

Sergent Sharon Type couplers look really good on HOn3 equipment. They will readily mate with Kadee 705’s and release from them too!

Sergent Sharon Type couplers and Kadee 714’s are a bit problematic here. While the Sharon’s will usually mate with the 714’s. (If aligned properly) The 714’s usually foul the Sharon release mechanism. You can’t have everything you know.

Dale Buxton



On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 15:21 hiroechan <hiroechan@...> wrote:
I've put the new 705's on over a hundred cars so far, and they do drastically reduce the slack-action that causes bouncing,
They also will mate with the Sergents pretty easily if you line them up correctly. 

--Drew McCann

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 4:58 PM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:
Using a long string of BS hoppers I can imitate the slack when I start and stop.  But once the train is rolling the cars, and especially the caboose, are constantly bobbing back and forth.  I have read articles that suggest using wires that lightly drag on the caboose wheels to reduce the bouncing.

Russ  Norris 


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:28 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
Yes and no. Yes, real trains often have springs built into the draftgear, and there is “runout” as the train stretches. But the bounce of the HO kadees is wholly out of scale, and unlike the prototype and its great weight, the cars run in and out as they are being pulled on the layout, giving a most unrealistic visual.


Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Dec 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:

Isn't the so-called "bounce" actually a replication of the way prototype trains work?  Every time I've watched trains start to move, including the Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec, once the engine start in motion the slack between cars is noticeably taken up before they start to move.   That is why I prefer the KaDee couplers over all others.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Banta Modelworks

Jeff Young
 

Two different beasts there: Campbell, BIS and MM are craftsman kits while Banta are laser cut.

That being said, I’d say the Banta are definitely higher quality than Campbell, and even a slight nudge above the other two.

(But if woodgrain going the wrong way annoys you then you’ll need to do some corrective action with any laser kit.)

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