Date   

Re: Grab iron spacing from body

John Stutz
 

Dusty

Ladders & Handholds (clearance): 2 1/2" preferred, no maximum, 2" minimum.. Taken from ARA Safety Appliance Standards, Plates C - R,printed in the 19125 Car Builders Cyclopedia on pp 959-978,and reproduced in Tran Shed Cyclopedia #68. This one applies to all car types, and all constructions of ladders and handholds.

I understand that the ARA standards are the railroad's explication of the ICC safety standards of circa 1910.

John Stutz

On October 1, 2020 at 5:26 PM Dusty <Dustburm@q.com> wrote:

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707

 


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Climax@...
 

Now are you talking about flat, split, rippled washes or a set of both washer and dryer?

-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty
Sent: Oct 2, 2020 11:07 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

Thank you to everyone who contributed! I'm throwing caution to the wind and sticking with .030 until I can count the exposed threads and determine washer type.

Dusty Burman
623 261 8707


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Climax@...
 

After checking my hand grabs with my friendly feeler gauge I out it in my pocket when I went out. I stopped in to grab a bite to eat and got slapped when I took my feeler gauge out! Be careful out there, its a strange world when everyone wants to prejudge how your going use your feeler gauge especially in public!

-----Original Message-----
From: rick@urbaneagle.com
Sent: Oct 2, 2020 11:44 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

My proto info says 2.5" clearance. Too long ago to remember where I got
that info. Doubt that anyone will be over with an .029" feeler gauge to
check. That .030 sounds fine to me.

Rick







RGS #20. Was: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Mark Rosche
 

So this is incorrect?



Regards,

Mark

Don‘t take life too seriously...no one gets out alive anyway....

On 2. Oct 2020, at 18:00, Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:

The issue with the DP 461 is that both models are wrong.  

The RGS version doesn’t have the prominent pipe that ran up the RH side of the tender and terminated in a shutoff valve.  Nobody has ever modelled this correctly, not DP, not Blackstone, not PSC in the 1992 run. PSC did attempt it on the mid80s detail update they did on the Westside K27, the two cab version, but they bent the pipe over into the top of the tender instead of terminating it at the shutoff valve.  BTW everyone whose done RGS 20 has also got the same error; late on it also had a pipe up the rear half of the RH side of the tender that ended in a shutoff valve. NG Pictorial V1 p39 shows 461s tender, and the RGS 20 Quick pic book shows the valve on RGS20s tender.

The D&RGW version of 461 has the wrong steps at the tender front.  There was a period when the tender had some strap steps at the front, see NG Pictorial V11 pages 96 and 97.  See also on P97 that it has a tiny Flying Rio Grande on the cab, instead of D&RGW. I have seen these strap steps on one model, PBLs hybrid 461, but on their RGS version, which should have had the traditional steps. And that Sn3 RGS 461 is still missing the pipe up the RH side.

Ah well.  And don’t get me started on the DP 36/37 errors, including a completely wrong tender on 492.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.


Re: Division Point K-27 question

Mick Moignard
 

The issue with the DP 461 is that both models are wrong.  

The RGS version doesn’t have the prominent pipe that ran up the RH side of the tender and terminated in a shutoff valve.  Nobody has ever modelled this correctly, not DP, not Blackstone, not PSC in the 1992 run. PSC did attempt it on the mid80s detail update they did on the Westside K27, the two cab version, but they bent the pipe over into the top of the tender instead of terminating it at the shutoff valve.  BTW everyone whose done RGS 20 has also got the same error; late on it also had a pipe up the rear half of the RH side of the tender that ended in a shutoff valve. NG Pictorial V1 p39 shows 461s tender, and the RGS 20 Quick pic book shows the valve on RGS20s tender.

The D&RGW version of 461 has the wrong steps at the tender front.  There was a period when the tender had some strap steps at the front, see NG Pictorial V11 pages 96 and 97.  See also on P97 that it has a tiny Flying Rio Grande on the cab, instead of D&RGW. I have seen these strap steps on one model, PBLs hybrid 461, but on their RGS version, which should have had the traditional steps. And that Sn3 RGS 461 is still missing the pipe up the RH side.

Ah well.  And don’t get me started on the DP 36/37 errors, including a completely wrong tender on 492.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

rick@...
 

My proto info says 2.5" clearance. Too long ago to remember where I got that info. Doubt that anyone will be over with an .029" feeler gauge to check. That .030 sounds fine to me.

Rick


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Dusty
 

Thank you to everyone who contributed! I'm throwing caution to the wind and sticking with .030 until I can count the exposed threads and determine washer type.

Dusty Burman
623 261 8707


Re: Division Point K-27 question

k27bry
 

Thanks for the responses guys . I think the good thing is that sooner or later Jack will see enough demand to re-run the 27/28 . Hate to think how many of the Alco RS's were just made and some of those versions were repeated within months when more people wanted them . Different topic , but I just mentioned to him it would be nice to see a run of the RG / RGS flangers ( OC, OD etc ) as PBL has done in Sn3 . 


Re: Division Point K-27 question

Scott McLeod
 

At the time of the release of Division Points K-27 and K-28s, I was unaware of Division Point as an importer.  Thankfully I learned about them in time to find both a K-28 and K-27 to purchase.  Since I model the RGS and D&RGW circa 1938-1942, the K-27 I was after was #461 in the D&RGW livery.  I wasn’t able to locate one, so I contacted DP and Jack V informed me that there were only 3 of the 25 models painted in the D&RGW livery.  So, I settled on purchasing a #461 in the RGS Sunrise herald thinking that someday, I would re-letter it in the D&RGW scheme.

 

Well, with the Blackstone release of K-27s, that day never came as I picked up a Blackstone #461.  So my DP #461 is still in its original paint scheme…

 

I continued to watch for a DP #461 in the D&RGW livery.  This past year one became available on brasstrains.com.  It sold in a flash.

 

Scott McLeod

HOn3 RGS/D&RGW Ridgway -  Durango


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Climax@...
 

Since when are we talking about the weather with bolts of what, lightning?

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 11:49 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

How many threads should show on bolts would be the next critical issue to resolve.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 8:47 PM lloyd lehrer via groups.io <lloydlehrer=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur between 2.96" and 3.04" depending on stamped washers or cast washers.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 7:59 PM <Climax@...> wrote:
I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Climax@...
 

5 if you want a loose fit due to metal fatigue.  Better add one for a nice tight fit if your using used parts.

-----Original Message-----
From: claneon30
Sent: Oct 2, 2020 12:26 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

It’s five.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Oct 1, 2020, at 9:49 PM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

How many threads should show on bolts would be the next critical issue to resolve.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 8:47 PM lloyd lehrer via groups.io <lloydlehrer=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur between 2.96" and 3.04" depending on stamped washers or cast washers.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 7:59 PM <Climax@...> wrote:
I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dusty 
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body 

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707

-- 
lloyd lehrer



-- 
lloyd lehrer


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Mark Lewis
 

Unless the grabs were made of Colorado mined "unobtainium". Then only 1 was required.

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020, 12:27 AM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
It’s five.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Oct 1, 2020, at 9:49 PM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

How many threads should show on bolts would be the next critical issue to resolve.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 8:47 PM lloyd lehrer via groups.io <lloydlehrer=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur between 2.96" and 3.04" depending on stamped washers or cast washers.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 7:59 PM <Climax@...> wrote:
I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dusty 
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body 

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707

-- 
lloyd lehrer



-- 
lloyd lehrer


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

tonyk537
 

Drawings by Gale Gish.  3".  

Kidding aside, No washers.
Some of the rider box equipment in Chama has cast bridge washers under grabs against the siding.  
Incorrect but done to appease some railroad inspector in 1997.

Think you are ahead of the game paying attention to how far they stick out.  I have a nice little flat end tweezers that I use so they are the same.  After your posting I had to check on the thickness and it is just about scale 2 1/12"

Tony Kassin


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Mike Conder
 

Except on later cars, the threads are so gummed up with paint that you need to cut half-thread depth to be realistic ...

Mike Conder

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 10:27 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
It’s five.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Oct 1, 2020, at 9:49 PM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

How many threads should show on bolts would be the next critical issue to resolve.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 8:47 PM lloyd lehrer via groups.io <lloydlehrer=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur between 2.96" and 3.04" depending on stamped washers or cast washers.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 7:59 PM <Climax@...> wrote:
I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dusty 
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body 

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707

-- 
lloyd lehrer



-- 
lloyd lehrer


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

claneon30
 

It’s five.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Oct 1, 2020, at 9:49 PM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

How many threads should show on bolts would be the next critical issue to resolve.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 8:47 PM lloyd lehrer via groups.io <lloydlehrer=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur between 2.96" and 3.04" depending on stamped washers or cast washers.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 7:59 PM <Climax@...> wrote:
I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dusty 
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body 

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707

-- 
lloyd lehrer



-- 
lloyd lehrer


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

lloyd lehrer
 

How many threads should show on bolts would be the next critical issue to resolve.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 8:47 PM lloyd lehrer via groups.io <lloydlehrer=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur between 2.96" and 3.04" depending on stamped washers or cast washers.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 7:59 PM <Climax@...> wrote:
I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

lloyd lehrer
 

I concur between 2.96" and 3.04" depending on stamped washers or cast washers.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 7:59 PM <Climax@...> wrote:
I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707


--
lloyd lehrer


Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Climax@...
 

I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707


Re: Looking for Kemtron C-16 (Original) Kit for sale or trade

Roger Clay
 

Because it it the Modern version, not as much as an Original or Intermediate kit as my era is the 1880s-early 1900s. You know, Roy of Roy’s Tains in Colorado Springs CO has two C-16 kits that he’s trying to determine the era and a sale price for me. He said that he will get back to me this weekend on this. Let me see what he comes up with. In any case, thanks SO much for taking the time on this.

— Roger


On Oct 1, 2020, at 6:57 PM, Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:

Yes I did! Spent most of the day going through old invoices to see what I paid for it! 
Not sure what it’s worth to you! 
I can’t find any record for my purchase! Actually this is the first time I really laid everything out to look at it! I’m bad at buying something setting it aside and forget that I even have it! 
I have a lot of car kits in boxes from thirty years plus back! lol 

Roger Clay
The 7th Direction
Marin County, California
mobile & txt: 415-233-1290


Re: Looking for Kemtron C-16 (Original) Kit for sale or trade

Ric Case
 

Yes I did! Spent most of the day going through old invoices to see what I paid for it! 
Not sure what it’s worth to you! 
I can’t find any record for my purchase! Actually this is the first time I really laid everything out to look at it! I’m bad at buying something setting it aside and forget that I even have it! 
I have a lot of car kits in boxes from thirty years plus back! lol 
Make me a solid offer as what it’s worth to you! We’ll see how it works out ! 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Oct 1, 2020, at 8:54 PM, Roger Clay <roger@...> wrote:


Ric,

Did you get a reply from me yesterday? I am interested in your Modern C-16 kit.

— Roger

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:24 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Roger contact me off list! Just went through a box of equipment purchased from an estate! Thought I saw it on the list. Nob no instructions but looks like everything is there! I will need to lay out everything on a sheet to verify what’s there! It does have the Nwsl gear box and can motor. I was going to re gear one of my Westside C-16 , thus the purchase originally!


Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Sep 29, 2020, at 10:07 PM, Roger Clay <roger@...> wrote:

Hi! Burning Rio, a newbie here, looking for a Kemton C-16 Original kit. Over 40 years ago, I was building this kit, when I was offered a job at Precision Scale Company as a brass caster. I gave all my stuff to my brother to watch over until I got setup and settled. In the period of time that moving and settling took, he somehow accidentally tossed a box with a bunch of my NG projects.  The partially completed C-16 one of those projects in that box, MUCH to my horror!

I eventually forgave him (it was just as much my fault for not marking the box), and now that I have A LOT more time on my hands (thank you COVID-19), I want to "finish" what I started back in the day.

If you have or know of anyone with that kit, PLEASE drop me an email.

TIA -- Roger (AKA burning rio)




--
Roger Clay
Phone and TXT: 1-415-233-1290
email: roger@...

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