Date   

Re: Grab iron spacing from body

Climax@...
 

I think it looks better at 2 15/16ths

-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty
Sent: Oct 1, 2020 8:26 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Grab iron spacing from body

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707


Re: Looking for Kemtron C-16 (Original) Kit for sale or trade

Roger Clay
 

Because it it the Modern version, not as much as an Original or Intermediate kit as my era is the 1880s-early 1900s. You know, Roy of Roy’s Tains in Colorado Springs CO has two C-16 kits that he’s trying to determine the era and a sale price for me. He said that he will get back to me this weekend on this. Let me see what he comes up with. In any case, thanks SO much for taking the time on this.

— Roger


On Oct 1, 2020, at 6:57 PM, Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:

Yes I did! Spent most of the day going through old invoices to see what I paid for it! 
Not sure what it’s worth to you! 
I can’t find any record for my purchase! Actually this is the first time I really laid everything out to look at it! I’m bad at buying something setting it aside and forget that I even have it! 
I have a lot of car kits in boxes from thirty years plus back! lol 

Roger Clay
The 7th Direction
Marin County, California
mobile & txt: 415-233-1290


Re: Looking for Kemtron C-16 (Original) Kit for sale or trade

Ric Case
 

Yes I did! Spent most of the day going through old invoices to see what I paid for it! 
Not sure what it’s worth to you! 
I can’t find any record for my purchase! Actually this is the first time I really laid everything out to look at it! I’m bad at buying something setting it aside and forget that I even have it! 
I have a lot of car kits in boxes from thirty years plus back! lol 
Make me a solid offer as what it’s worth to you! We’ll see how it works out ! 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Oct 1, 2020, at 8:54 PM, Roger Clay <roger@...> wrote:


Ric,

Did you get a reply from me yesterday? I am interested in your Modern C-16 kit.

— Roger

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:24 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Roger contact me off list! Just went through a box of equipment purchased from an estate! Thought I saw it on the list. Nob no instructions but looks like everything is there! I will need to lay out everything on a sheet to verify what’s there! It does have the Nwsl gear box and can motor. I was going to re gear one of my Westside C-16 , thus the purchase originally!


Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Sep 29, 2020, at 10:07 PM, Roger Clay <roger@...> wrote:

Hi! Burning Rio, a newbie here, looking for a Kemton C-16 Original kit. Over 40 years ago, I was building this kit, when I was offered a job at Precision Scale Company as a brass caster. I gave all my stuff to my brother to watch over until I got setup and settled. In the period of time that moving and settling took, he somehow accidentally tossed a box with a bunch of my NG projects.  The partially completed C-16 one of those projects in that box, MUCH to my horror!

I eventually forgave him (it was just as much my fault for not marking the box), and now that I have A LOT more time on my hands (thank you COVID-19), I want to "finish" what I started back in the day.

If you have or know of anyone with that kit, PLEASE drop me an email.

TIA -- Roger (AKA burning rio)




--
Roger Clay
Phone and TXT: 1-415-233-1290
email: roger@...


Re: Looking for Kemtron C-16 (Original) Kit for sale or trade

Roger Clay
 

Ric,

Did you get a reply from me yesterday? I am interested in your Modern C-16 kit.

— Roger

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:24 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Roger contact me off list! Just went through a box of equipment purchased from an estate! Thought I saw it on the list. Nob no instructions but looks like everything is there! I will need to lay out everything on a sheet to verify what’s there! It does have the Nwsl gear box and can motor. I was going to re gear one of my Westside C-16 , thus the purchase originally!


Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Sep 29, 2020, at 10:07 PM, Roger Clay <roger@...> wrote:

Hi! Burning Rio, a newbie here, looking for a Kemton C-16 Original kit. Over 40 years ago, I was building this kit, when I was offered a job at Precision Scale Company as a brass caster. I gave all my stuff to my brother to watch over until I got setup and settled. In the period of time that moving and settling took, he somehow accidentally tossed a box with a bunch of my NG projects.  The partially completed C-16 one of those projects in that box, MUCH to my horror!

I eventually forgave him (it was just as much my fault for not marking the box), and now that I have A LOT more time on my hands (thank you COVID-19), I want to "finish" what I started back in the day.

If you have or know of anyone with that kit, PLEASE drop me an email.

TIA -- Roger (AKA burning rio)




--
Roger Clay
Phone and TXT: 1-415-233-1290
email: roger@...


Grab iron spacing from body

Dusty
 

I've been setting my grab irons out from the box car car sides using .030 x .060 styrene strip in various lengths for spacers. According to the chart on the Evergreen package that's 2 5/8 ". Does that sound about right?

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707


Re: Division Point K-27 question

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Boo Rim made 100 K-27's for Division Point in 2002. Of those 25 were 461 though I do not know what the DRGW - RGS split was. When I mentioned I had one to Jack, he just said 'hold onto it!' Which I have. Basically they're rarer than rocking horse droppings.

Mark K


Re: Division Point K-27 question

k27bry
 

Hey Lawrence - forgot to respond on this one ; yes - I have seen 461 in both Rio Grande and RGS livery . Kind of torn about which one to look for !
                                                       Regards,
                                                                     Bryan


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Mick Moignard
 

Many years ago I made a set of the cast RPO trucks from MDC trucks and an E&B/MRGS outside bearing beam. Pretty convincing, well I think so...

Mick
______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
The week may start M,T but it always ends up WTF!


Re: Looking for Kemtron C-16 (Original) Kit for sale or trade

Ric Case
 

Roger contact me off list! Just went through a box of equipment purchased from an estate! Thought I saw it on the list. Nob no instructions but looks like everything is there! I will need to lay out everything on a sheet to verify what’s there! It does have the Nwsl gear box and can motor. I was going to re gear one of my Westside C-16 , thus the purchase originally!


Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Sep 29, 2020, at 10:07 PM, Roger Clay <roger@...> wrote:

Hi! Burning Rio, a newbie here, looking for a Kemton C-16 Original kit. Over 40 years ago, I was building this kit, when I was offered a job at Precision Scale Company as a brass caster. I gave all my stuff to my brother to watch over until I got setup and settled. In the period of time that moving and settling took, he somehow accidentally tossed a box with a bunch of my NG projects.  The partially completed C-16 one of those projects in that box, MUCH to my horror!

I eventually forgave him (it was just as much my fault for not marking the box), and now that I have A LOT more time on my hands (thank you COVID-19), I want to "finish" what I started back in the day.

If you have or know of anyone with that kit, PLEASE drop me an email.

TIA -- Roger (AKA burning rio)


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Wayne
 

FWIW:  LaBelle sells a lot of D&RGW passenger cars, all of which come without trucks.  I personally have 6 unstarted kits and 3 completed ones on which I have installed KaDee 717 trucks ( 4' 6" arch bar).  Blackstone made passenger trucks but everyone has  been out of them for over a year+ now.  Modelrailroadgeneralstore.com sells their own brand on eBay from time to time but their service is terrible - 10 days after payment clears before they ship. 


Re: Is there market "demand" for 3D printed HOn3 trucks?

Jim Spencer
 

For years the brass builders in HOn3 were putting out RPO cars with incorrect outside clasp passenger trucks. Offhand, I can think of Key, PFM, Balboa or Custom Brass and maybe others were doing this.  Those particular cars built new in the mid 1920s had trucks with cast steel frames and inside clasp brakes (maybe built by AC&F(?).  PSC did a late run of the brass RPO cars with the correct trucks and I understand that a few were available separately, but very pricey! Others, including me bought the WP&Y steel cabooses for the trucks - that are similar but too short. And I would like to repatriate my trucks with the original caboose where they below.

Given that there are a lot of brass and non-brass RPO cars out there, it would seem to me to be a good candidate for 3D printed trucks.  And I believe that all of those trucks are still in use on the Durango & Silverton because of their newer design, therefore available for measurements. Comments?

Jim Spencer


Re: Division Point K-27 question

k27bry
 

^ Thanks Lawrence - I thought I remembered 455 , but what you said makes sense . I exchanged an e-mail with Jack a couple days ago and for some reason those previously mentioned new run K-27's and K-28's are no longer being planned .
                                                                 Regards,
                                                                               Bryan


Re: BLACKSTONE C-19s FOR SALE

Brian Booth
 

I would take a black boiler unlettered version.  Emailed and Private Messaged.

Thanks 

Brian


Re: Division Point K-27 question

Lawrence Wisniewski <lwreno@...>
 

As far as I can recall, Division Point only brought in 4 inside piston valve K-27's (454, 456, 458, 461).  No outside valve engines were done although there was a promise to do those on the "next run" (which never came in).  I am not sure if the 461 was done in both D&RGW and RGS versions.


-----Original Message-----
From: k27bry via groups.io <k27bry@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2020 12:41 pm
Subject: [HOn3] Division Point K-27 question

Hi Guys ,
               I was heavily invested in PBL Sn3 when the DP HOn3 K-27's came out and didn't pay much attention to which versions they did at the time so I'm only aware of ones I saw for sale in the aftermarket . I'm aware of early / speed lettering on some as well as RGS on 455 and 461 so beyond these numbers  ( 454 , 455 , 456 , 461 ) which others did Jack do ?
                                                                 Thanks,
                                                                              Bryan


Division Point K-27 question

k27bry
 
Edited

Hi Guys ,
               I was heavily invested in PBL Sn3 when the DP HOn3 K-27's came out and didn't pay much attention to which versions they did at the time so I'm only aware of ones I saw for sale in the aftermarket . I'm aware of early / speed lettering on some as well as RGS on 455 and 461 so beyond these numbers  ( 454 , 455 , 456 , 458, 461 ) which others did Jack do ?
                                                                 Thanks,
                                                                              Bryan


Re: brake gear

Don Ball
 

They are still available. Go to sanjuanmodelco.com

Don Ball

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:21 AM Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Good day gentlemen
Looks like Grandt line brake parts for hon3 freight cars and tanks are no later available-or are they ? The tichy parts are okay but wish they were cast in black instead of grey. They need to painted black before installing on existing cars. Any thing else out there ?   Bob Veefkind


brake gear

Robert Veefkind <snookdust@...>
 

Good day gentlemen
Looks like Grandt line brake parts for hon3 freight cars and tanks are no later available-or are they ? The tichy parts are okay but wish they were cast in black instead of grey. They need to painted black before installing on existing cars. Any thing else out there ?   Bob Veefkind


Looking for Kemtron C-16 (Original) Kit for sale or trade

Roger Clay
 

Hi! Burning Rio, a newbie here, looking for a Kemton C-16 Original kit. Over 40 years ago, I was building this kit, when I was offered a job at Precision Scale Company as a brass caster. I gave all my stuff to my brother to watch over until I got setup and settled. In the period of time that moving and settling took, he somehow accidentally tossed a box with a bunch of my NG projects.  The partially completed C-16 one of those projects in that box, MUCH to my horror!

I eventually forgave him (it was just as much my fault for not marking the box), and now that I have A LOT more time on my hands (thank you COVID-19), I want to "finish" what I started back in the day.

If you have or know of anyone with that kit, PLEASE drop me an email.

TIA -- Roger (AKA burning rio)


Blackstone C19 bumblebee #345 for sale

hiroechan
 

I already have one of these weathered w new 705 couplers, so this one is surplus to my needs.

Almost-new, test-run-only Blackstone C19 #345 in "Bumblebee"/ movie scheme paint, DCC w/ factory sound. Tender has realistic coal applied over the factory coal casting. Unweathered. Minor blemish on tender engineer side. (Photos available on request.)

Packed in original Blackstone box, includes spare dc-only board to replace the DCC decoder, for folks who run DC only.

$550 plus shipping (OBO), paypal preferred.



On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 12:44 AM John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:

I have been making and using similar tools for about 30 years now, but using a lathe and mill to do so.

Ric's photo shows a way forward for those of us who do not have lathes. 

Apologies for the length,  This was ment to be short, but is fast approaching book length.  I hope some find it useful.

A brass tool will cut plastic, both Delren and most polymers used in 3-D modeling, with occasional resharpening.  Steel will last longer, but is a little harder to work with.  Use 1/8" stock if you are turning with a Dremel, either Ric's 3/16" or 1/4" stock if turning with a drill.  Cut your piece a little longer than the width over axleboxes, chuck it with a washer to protect the chuck, run at moderate speed, and file your point.

The point angle needs to be a little blunter than the axle points.  For rounded tip axles (Kadee) the tool point needs to be a little blunter than the taper behind the axle point. The idea here is to ensure that the truck rides on the axle's point,without any contact elsewhere.  When filing a point this way, there is a tendency to make it sharper than wanted, because the tip, at zero radius, while rotating is not actually moving. So start with an overly blunt point, stroke the file, and work your way back to the desired angle.  A coarse file can be used initially, but finish up with your finest single-cut file, always using a file handle. It will help if whatever you use to rotate the work is solidly mounted, so you can control the file with both hands.  A heavy drill press is ideal, but I have used a Dremel in their drill press, laid on its side

For all materials the cutting edge should be square to the tool's cone's surface.  This can be either a groove, as Ric used, or a half diameter flat.  The groove is safer for just cleaning out a well molded axlebox, as it provides a larger guide surface.    A groove for cutting right handed, when viewed from the side, point up, should pass just to the right of the point. The half flat version is actually a fair drill, and can also be used to deepen axlebox bearing cavities, but will serve for cleanup if used with light pressure. this will cut in either direction.

Ric cut his groove with a cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool.  I would want either the tool or the Dremel to be solidly mounted to something,  so I could hold the other with both hands for control.  As always with cutoff wheels, wear safety glasses and keep your head out of the wheel's plane of rotation.  

For a flat cutting edge, file the flat to almost full depth, and finish on a sharpening stone or flat diamond file.  Here one desires to avoid any hint of rounding at the flat's edges, creating a square edge that is actually quite sharp. If I were making another, I would use a double ended pin vise, and rig a guide to the back end, to prevent the pin vise rotating, while finishing the flat.  A piece of heavy wire, bent into a triangle perpendicular to the vise's axis, and clamped in the second collet, should suffice.

Having got your cutting point, trim the tool to final length, and turn the guide cone end, slightly rounding at the tip.  Giving tht  cutting is done when pressing on opposed axleboxes, the afctual length is not critical, given the spring of the side frames.  A little short is probably better than long, minimizing insertion stress on the sideframes.  Insertion stress may be further reduced by truncating the guide cone.  Excessive variation of axle length, between manufacturers, may make multiple tools desirable.

To use, make a cleanup spin under light pressure in each of an opposed pair of axleboxes, then insert a wheel set.  If the fit is at all tight, give the axleboxes another pass with slightly greater pressure.  Continue until the wheel set spins freely, with just a hint of side play.  With these conical bearing surfaces, minimum side play is needed to ensure consistent center plate height for any any pair of trucks. While checking for spin, make certain that the wheels are not dragging on the inner axlebox face, brake shoes, or any untrimmed molding flanges on Delren trucks.

If the fit is loose initially, one can stop with the cleanup and use as is.  Such trucks should still roll well, but they will have some side slop, which may actually help rigid trucks get over rough track.  Otherwise one needs longer axles or a shorter bolster.  NWSL axles are the longest HOn3' axles available, at a nominal 0.75".  Slightly longer HOn3'6" wheelsets may be available from Australian sources. My preferred way to narrow one piece truck frames is to splice bolster halves with a piece of K&S brass channel, or square tubing.  Cut and file the bolster top flat, cut out the center plate, and cut the brass splice to the required length between side frames. If too loose a fit over the bolster halves, add styrene strip fillers, but the bolster halves should be free enough to twist slightly, equalizing the weight on wheels.  Drill the splice sides at the two quarter points, about half depth on the bolster halves, then insert the bolster halves and drill through them, opening these holes slightly with a tapered  reamer.  Drill the splice centrally for your mounting screw, insert the bolster halves and glue bits of wire in to loosely retain them. 

It is probably best to paint trucks and wheel sets before cleaning axlebox bearing surfaces and fitting the wheel  sets.  After fitting, remove wheels and add a drop of well stirred Neolube, or other colloidal graphite, letting the alcohol evaporate before replacing wheels.  For painting wheel sets, I use a holder made from chopsticks.   Start with an un-split pair and drill a pair of guide pin holes through the splitting plane. Split, glue guide pins in one side, add a rubber band for compression,  and drill axle end holes in the other end,   This holder is also useful for cleaning paint from plated brass, nickel-silver, or zinc die-cast (Kadee & MT) wheels, using a brass brush wheel in the Dremel..  But do not be tempted to use the wire brush to spin Kadee wheels wile cleaning them - I have meltted axle ends.

The above will suffice for plastic or tin alloy side frames, or for just smoothing brass sideframes using a steel tool.  But for cleaning occasional brass bubble out of brass axleboxes with this type tool, one needs the rigidity of a mill, or a drill press fitted with X-Y table, as well as fixtures to clamp and hold the individual sideframes securely, while working on them.  With hand tools this is probably a matter of using micro chisels to pare down the bubble.  I am not aware of any source for these, but one might make them from high speed drill shanks, mounted in small center punch size holders,  Work holding fixitures will still be required.  I have not tried this.

John Stutz


Truck axlebox tuner - making & using

John Stutz
 

I have been making and using similar tools for about 30 years now, but using a lathe and mill to do so.

Ric's photo shows a way forward for those of us who do not have lathes. 

Apologies for the length,  This was ment to be short, but is fast approaching book length.  I hope some find it useful.

A brass tool will cut plastic, both Delren and most polymers used in 3-D modeling, with occasional resharpening.  Steel will last longer, but is a little harder to work with.  Use 1/8" stock if you are turning with a Dremel, either Ric's 3/16" or 1/4" stock if turning with a drill.  Cut your piece a little longer than the width over axleboxes, chuck it with a washer to protect the chuck, run at moderate speed, and file your point.

The point angle needs to be a little blunter than the axle points.  For rounded tip axles (Kadee) the tool point needs to be a little blunter than the taper behind the axle point. The idea here is to ensure that the truck rides on the axle's point,without any contact elsewhere.  When filing a point this way, there is a tendency to make it sharper than wanted, because the tip, at zero radius, while rotating is not actually moving. So start with an overly blunt point, stroke the file, and work your way back to the desired angle.  A coarse file can be used initially, but finish up with your finest single-cut file, always using a file handle. It will help if whatever you use to rotate the work is solidly mounted, so you can control the file with both hands.  A heavy drill press is ideal, but I have used a Dremel in their drill press, laid on its side

For all materials the cutting edge should be square to the tool's cone's surface.  This can be either a groove, as Ric used, or a half diameter flat.  The groove is safer for just cleaning out a well molded axlebox, as it provides a larger guide surface.    A groove for cutting right handed, when viewed from the side, point up, should pass just to the right of the point. The half flat version is actually a fair drill, and can also be used to deepen axlebox bearing cavities, but will serve for cleanup if used with light pressure. this will cut in either direction.

Ric cut his groove with a cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool.  I would want either the tool or the Dremel to be solidly mounted to something,  so I could hold the other with both hands for control.  As always with cutoff wheels, wear safety glasses and keep your head out of the wheel's plane of rotation.  

For a flat cutting edge, file the flat to almost full depth, and finish on a sharpening stone or flat diamond file.  Here one desires to avoid any hint of rounding at the flat's edges, creating a square edge that is actually quite sharp. If I were making another, I would use a double ended pin vise, and rig a guide to the back end, to prevent the pin vise rotating, while finishing the flat.  A piece of heavy wire, bent into a triangle perpendicular to the vise's axis, and clamped in the second collet, should suffice.

Having got your cutting point, trim the tool to final length, and turn the guide cone end, slightly rounding at the tip.  Giving tht  cutting is done when pressing on opposed axleboxes, the afctual length is not critical, given the spring of the side frames.  A little short is probably better than long, minimizing insertion stress on the sideframes.  Insertion stress may be further reduced by truncating the guide cone.  Excessive variation of axle length, between manufacturers, may make multiple tools desirable.

To use, make a cleanup spin under light pressure in each of an opposed pair of axleboxes, then insert a wheel set.  If the fit is at all tight, give the axleboxes another pass with slightly greater pressure.  Continue until the wheel set spins freely, with just a hint of side play.  With these conical bearing surfaces, minimum side play is needed to ensure consistent center plate height for any any pair of trucks. While checking for spin, make certain that the wheels are not dragging on the inner axlebox face, brake shoes, or any untrimmed molding flanges on Delren trucks.

If the fit is loose initially, one can stop with the cleanup and use as is.  Such trucks should still roll well, but they will have some side slop, which may actually help rigid trucks get over rough track.  Otherwise one needs longer axles or a shorter bolster.  NWSL axles are the longest HOn3' axles available, at a nominal 0.75".  Slightly longer HOn3'6" wheelsets may be available from Australian sources. My preferred way to narrow one piece truck frames is to splice bolster halves with a piece of K&S brass channel, or square tubing.  Cut and file the bolster top flat, cut out the center plate, and cut the brass splice to the required length between side frames. If too loose a fit over the bolster halves, add styrene strip fillers, but the bolster halves should be free enough to twist slightly, equalizing the weight on wheels.  Drill the splice sides at the two quarter points, about half depth on the bolster halves, then insert the bolster halves and drill through them, opening these holes slightly with a tapered  reamer.  Drill the splice centrally for your mounting screw, insert the bolster halves and glue bits of wire in to loosely retain them. 

It is probably best to paint trucks and wheel sets before cleaning axlebox bearing surfaces and fitting the wheel  sets.  After fitting, remove wheels and add a drop of well stirred Neolube, or other colloidal graphite, letting the alcohol evaporate before replacing wheels.  For painting wheel sets, I use a holder made from chopsticks.   Start with an un-split pair and drill a pair of guide pin holes through the splitting plane. Split, glue guide pins in one side, add a rubber band for compression,  and drill axle end holes in the other end,   This holder is also useful for cleaning paint from plated brass, nickel-silver, or zinc die-cast (Kadee & MT) wheels, using a brass brush wheel in the Dremel..  But do not be tempted to use the wire brush to spin Kadee wheels wile cleaning them - I have meltted axle ends.

The above will suffice for plastic or tin alloy side frames, or for just smoothing brass sideframes using a steel tool.  But for cleaning occasional brass bubble out of brass axleboxes with this type tool, one needs the rigidity of a mill, or a drill press fitted with X-Y table, as well as fixtures to clamp and hold the individual sideframes securely, while working on them.  With hand tools this is probably a matter of using micro chisels to pare down the bubble.  I am not aware of any source for these, but one might make them from high speed drill shanks, mounted in small center punch size holders,  Work holding fixitures will still be required.  I have not tried this.

John Stutz

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