Date   

Re: Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

Jim Marlett
 

Of course, I haven’t tried to let the magic smoke out of mine, so maybe I should try that. I just figured I would skip that altogether and go straight to the new part(s).

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Sep 6, 2020, at 11:40 AM, James Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

I know these things aren’t made to take apart, but has anyone ever tried to take a motor apart and de-lubricate it then successfully reassemble it?



Re: Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

Jim Marlett
 

I know these things aren’t made to take apart, but has anyone ever tried to take a motor apart and de-lubricate it then successfully reassemble it?

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Sep 6, 2020, at 10:45 AM, kevin b via groups.io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:


i wonder, is there anybody in the US that can make electric motors anymore?
i mean, model train size motors, not industrial stuff.
and, that sort of begs the question, if so, how much more would they cost?
would we, pay, say, 2x the price for an American made piece?
3x?

as for the bachman gear situation, what would it take to get those made here?
would NWSL consider it?
how many sets would have to be pre sold?

time marches on and NEVER looks back to see if you're in step or not.

Kevin.



With the rift between China and the US it may take a while.  Besides Kader Industries is not exactly friendly.  They design of and manufacturing of the Bachmann Spectrum, owned by Kader,  Shays and Climax's is a prime example of WHGAS attitude they have.  In both, after about an hour of running time, the Climax gears are mashed, cracked, or stripped to the point you have a great looking model which has DCC/Sound/lights which just sits there and does everything but move.  Same with the Shay.  They end up being really expensive scenery.  Bachmann's response is just sorry about that, but there is nothing we can do so you eat it.  When I approached them at the West Springfield MA show, I got a cold shoulder, ignored, and almost shuffled away from their display.  Kader has their employees well trained to ignore the problems.
Fortunately, I believe Blackstone was heavily involved in the design and exacting specifications allowing a model of quality to be turned out.  Its just that we find replacement parts by Kader to be lacking due to the rift between US and China trade and Kader policy.  Only God knows when the parts will be made, shipped, and arrive in Colorado.  Its definitely not a Blackstone problem.
In the mean time, we the consumer, have to just sit and wait for Kader to do what they do.
Dave

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Lewis 
Sent: Sep 6, 2020 8:11 AM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits 

I have a friend that recently sent a K27 first run, into Blackstone for a motor replacement and was told they have no motor assemblies in stock and are waiting for a replenishment order to arrive, but could not tell him when the order of motors was to arrive.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020, 5:27 AM Robert Bell via groups.io <ionhoss=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Call Blackstone.  They are/were $29.95 including shipping.

Rob Bell 
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3 





Re: Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

kevin b
 


i wonder, is there anybody in the US that can make electric motors anymore?
i mean, model train size motors, not industrial stuff.
and, that sort of begs the question, if so, how much more would they cost?
would we, pay, say, 2x the price for an American made piece?
3x?

as for the bachman gear situation, what would it take to get those made here?
would NWSL consider it?
how many sets would have to be pre sold?

time marches on and NEVER looks back to see if you're in step or not.

Kevin.



With the rift between China and the US it may take a while.  Besides Kader Industries is not exactly friendly.  They design of and manufacturing of the Bachmann Spectrum, owned by Kader,  Shays and Climax's is a prime example of WHGAS attitude they have.  In both, after about an hour of running time, the Climax gears are mashed, cracked, or stripped to the point you have a great looking model which has DCC/Sound/lights which just sits there and does everything but move.  Same with the Shay.  They end up being really expensive scenery.  Bachmann's response is just sorry about that, but there is nothing we can do so you eat it.  When I approached them at the West Springfield MA show, I got a cold shoulder, ignored, and almost shuffled away from their display.  Kader has their employees well trained to ignore the problems.
Fortunately, I believe Blackstone was heavily involved in the design and exacting specifications allowing a model of quality to be turned out.  Its just that we find replacement parts by Kader to be lacking due to the rift between US and China trade and Kader policy.  Only God knows when the parts will be made, shipped, and arrive in Colorado.  Its definitely not a Blackstone problem.
In the mean time, we the consumer, have to just sit and wait for Kader to do what they do.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lewis
Sent: Sep 6, 2020 8:11 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

I have a friend that recently sent a K27 first run, into Blackstone for a motor replacement and was told they have no motor assemblies in stock and are waiting for a replenishment order to arrive, but could not tell him when the order of motors was to arrive.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020, 5:27 AM Robert Bell via groups.io <ionhoss=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Call Blackstone.  They are/were $29.95 including shipping.

Rob Bell 
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3 


Re: Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

Climax@...
 

With the rift between China and the US it may take a while.  Besides Kader Industries is not exactly friendly.  They design of and manufacturing of the Bachmann Spectrum, owned by Kader,  Shays and Climax's is a prime example of WHGAS attitude they have.  In both, after about an hour of running time, the Climax gears are mashed, cracked, or stripped to the point you have a great looking model which has DCC/Sound/lights which just sits there and does everything but move.  Same with the Shay.  They end up being really expensive scenery.  Bachmann's response is just sorry about that, but there is nothing we can do so you eat it.  When I approached them at the West Springfield MA show, I got a cold shoulder, ignored, and almost shuffled away from their display.  Kader has their employees well trained to ignore the problems.
Fortunately, I believe Blackstone was heavily involved in the design and exacting specifications allowing a model of quality to be turned out.  Its just that we find replacement parts by Kader to be lacking due to the rift between US and China trade and Kader policy.  Only God knows when the parts will be made, shipped, and arrive in Colorado.  Its definitely not a Blackstone problem.
In the mean time, we the consumer, have to just sit and wait for Kader to do what they do.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lewis
Sent: Sep 6, 2020 8:11 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

I have a friend that recently sent a K27 first run, into Blackstone for a motor replacement and was told they have no motor assemblies in stock and are waiting for a replenishment order to arrive, but could not tell him when the order of motors was to arrive.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020, 5:27 AM Robert Bell via groups.io <ionhoss=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Call Blackstone.  They are/were $29.95 including shipping.

Rob Bell 
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3 


Re: Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

Jim Marlett
 

I was told the same thing almost a year ago. I asked if this was like the K-36 and K-28. I was told it was not, but I still haven’t heard that they have them. Just sent another email yesterday.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Sep 6, 2020, at 7:11 AM, Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:

I have a friend that recently sent a K27 first run, into Blackstone for a motor replacement and was told they have no motor assemblies in stock and are waiting for a replenishment order to arrive, but could not tell him when the order of motors was to arrive.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020, 5:27 AM Robert Bell via groups.io <ionhoss=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Call Blackstone.  They are/were $29.95 including shipping.

Rob Bell 
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3 





Re: Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

Mark Lewis
 

I have a friend that recently sent a K27 first run, into Blackstone for a motor replacement and was told they have no motor assemblies in stock and are waiting for a replenishment order to arrive, but could not tell him when the order of motors was to arrive.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020, 5:27 AM Robert Bell via groups.io <ionhoss=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Call Blackstone.  They are/were $29.95 including shipping.

Rob Bell 
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3 


Re: Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

Robert Bell
 

Call Blackstone.  They are/were $29.95 including shipping.

Rob Bell 
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3 


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

John Stutz
 

Dale

Most likely someone once had two boxes open, and did not get everything back where it came from.

Have you checked your other kits for one with a single side?

John Stutz

On September 4, 2020 at 2:14 AM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

I was looking at my LaBelle coach kits after this thread started and one of the D&RGW kits has three sides in the box. Two with 13 windows and one with 12. The price on the end is $6.95 while all the other kits I have are $12.95. So it's obviously an older kit. I wonder if this is a fluke or if at some point LaBelle stopped putting the optional side in the kit?

Dale Buxton

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:15 AM duncan < train3guy@...> wrote:
John, Rob and Dale,

     Yes, the LaBelle F&CC kits were produced somewhere in the 60's, I
believe.  They were a limited run kit.  As I understand it there were
only about 250 of each kit (the combine and the coach) manufactured.  I
don't know why they were limited run.  Maybe because there weren't that
many F&CC modelers out there.

     The model Rob showed is a coach and the combine kit did have two
windows in the side, in the baggage area.  Many early roads had windows
in the baggage section, I guess before they figured out that wasn't a
good idea.

     The boxes for the kits had green labels.  I don't believe any other
LaBelle kit had that kind of label.

     If you look at the picture of Rob's car you can easily see how much
bigger the windows are.    And the cars were longer.  As you compare
lengths of cars, even on the same road, you will find differences in the
lengths.  Usually due to the cars being made by different
manufacturers.  But, sometimes even the same manufacturer will make
different length  cars of the same type in different years.  On the
DSP&P/C&S (the roads I model the most) there are maybe something like
five, or six, different lengths of coach cars.

     As for the 12/13 windows per side issue, all three coach kits
(D&RGW, F&CC and D&FtW)  are prototypically correct. Manufacturers of
prototype cars varied the window size, shape and numbers on their cars. 
I believe the D&RGW Jackson and Sharp coaches were originally 13 windows
per side.  During a rebuild it was decided to sheath over the window by
the stove.  If you look you will almost invariably see a stack, on the
roof, over the space of that blanked out window.

     Hope this is of some help!

Duncan Harvey






 


Blackstone K-27 Re-motor Kits

Scott McLeod
 

Greetings everyone,

 

I’m looking for a source for 2 Blackstone K-27 re-motor kits that are used for re-motoring Blackstone K-27s from their first run in 2006 that had the over-oiling problem.  If you have a couple of these available that you would be willing to part with.  Please let me know.  Thank you.

 

Scott McLeod

HOn3 RGS/D&RGW Ridgway - Durango


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

Dale Buxton
 

I was looking at my LaBelle coach kits after this thread started and one of the D&RGW kits has three sides in the box. Two with 13 windows and one with 12. The price on the end is $6.95 while all the other kits I have are $12.95. So it's obviously an older kit. I wonder if this is a fluke or if at some point LaBelle stopped putting the optional side in the kit?

Dale Buxton

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:15 AM duncan <train3guy@...> wrote:
John, Rob and Dale,

     Yes, the LaBelle F&CC kits were produced somewhere in the 60's, I
believe.  They were a limited run kit.  As I understand it there were
only about 250 of each kit (the combine and the coach) manufactured.  I
don't know why they were limited run.  Maybe because there weren't that
many F&CC modelers out there.

     The model Rob showed is a coach and the combine kit did have two
windows in the side, in the baggage area.  Many early roads had windows
in the baggage section, I guess before they figured out that wasn't a
good idea.

     The boxes for the kits had green labels.  I don't believe any other
LaBelle kit had that kind of label.

     If you look at the picture of Rob's car you can easily see how much
bigger the windows are.    And the cars were longer.  As you compare
lengths of cars, even on the same road, you will find differences in the
lengths.  Usually due to the cars being made by different
manufacturers.  But, sometimes even the same manufacturer will make
different length  cars of the same type in different years.  On the
DSP&P/C&S (the roads I model the most) there are maybe something like
five, or six, different lengths of coach cars.

     As for the 12/13 windows per side issue, all three coach kits
(D&RGW, F&CC and D&FtW)  are prototypically correct. Manufacturers of
prototype cars varied the window size, shape and numbers on their cars. 
I believe the D&RGW Jackson and Sharp coaches were originally 13 windows
per side.  During a rebuild it was decided to sheath over the window by
the stove.  If you look you will almost invariably see a stack, on the
roof, over the space of that blanked out window.

     Hope this is of some help!

Duncan Harvey






Re: Steam whistles

John Stutz
 

Rob

I do not recall it. 

If this is about WP&Y locomotive whistles, you might try looking up the BLW specifications at <">http://digitalcollections.smu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/rwy/id/32>.   These cover 1869-1938, so all built for the White Pass up to, but perhaps not including, #70.  I think the last entry is for the FC Giradot's 3' gauge 2-8-8-2t, an upsized Uintah Mallet (see http://narrowmind.railfan.net/2882T_FNdC_left.JPG).

For general information on locomotive construction, do a search with any of: ""modern locomotives 1900"" (with quotes), or "locomotive dictionary" for 1906/09/16 editions, or "locomotive cyclopedia" for later dates, or "car and locomotive cyclopedia" for post WW-II dates.  For passenger or freight stock use "car builders dictionary" and "car builders cyclopedia" for similar date ranges.  Most editions of these are available online.  Each contains a wealth of information about then current practice; explanations of terms, photographs and drawings of many full examples, with photographs and drawings of multiple variations of almost all parts composing typical examples. The car builder's also include a few dozen typical passenger car floor plans and interior photographs.

John Stutz

On September 3, 2020 at 10:29 AM "Robert Bell via groups.io" <ionhoss@...> wrote:

John,Did you happen to see my question I posted on the White Pass group about the steam whistless?  No one has responded yet...
Thanks!Rob Bell


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

Robert Bell
 

John,
Did you happen to see my question I posted on the White Pass group about the steam whistless?  No one has responded yet...

Thanks!
Rob Bell


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

John Stutz
 

Thanks Rob, for the photos.

As for color, its my impression that no two White Pass passenger cars are quite the same color.  Unless they were painted in the same week, and that no more than 3 months ago.  And sometimes the differences are not at all subtle.

Duncan - Your history is much appreciated.

John Stutz


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

Clifford Mestel
 

 
 
In a message dated 9/2/2020 11:52:18 AM Mountain Standard Time, troutckeng@... writes:
 
The Florence & Cripple Creek did have 3 combines.  2 of them had the windows between the baggage door and end of the car while the 3rd had the door at the end of the car.  This was #60 and it is at the Cumbres and Toltec yard in Alamosa.
 
Cliff Mestel
 
In a message dated 9/2/2020 10:15:44 AM Mountain Standard Time, train3guy@... writes:
 
John, Rob and Dale,

    Yes, the LaBelle F&CC kits were produced somewhere in the 60's, I
believe.  They were a limited run kit.  As I understand it there were
only about 250 of each kit (the combine and the coach) manufactured.  I
don't know why they were limited run.  Maybe because there weren't that
many F&CC modelers out there.

    The model Rob showed is a coach and the combine kit did have two
windows in the side, in the baggage area.  Many early roads had windows
in the baggage section, I guess before they figured out that wasn't a
good idea.

    The boxes for the kits had green labels.  I don't believe any other
LaBelle kit had that kind of label.

    If you look at the picture of Rob's car you can easily see how much
bigger the windows are.    And the cars were longer.  As you compare
lengths of cars, even on the same road, you will find differences in the
lengths.  Usually due to the cars being made by different
manufacturers.  But, sometimes even the same manufacturer will make
different length  cars of the same type in different years.  On the
DSP&P/C&S (the roads I model the most) there are maybe something like
five, or six, different lengths of coach cars.

    As for the 12/13 windows per side issue, all three coach kits
(D&RGW, F&CC and D&FtW)  are prototypically correct. Manufacturers of
prototype cars varied the window size, shape and numbers on their cars. 
I believe the D&RGW Jackson and Sharp coaches were originally 13 windows
per side.  During a rebuild it was decided to sheath over the window by
the stove.  If you look you will almost invariably see a stack, on the
roof, over the space of that blanked out window.

    Hope this is of some help!

Duncan Harvey






St. Louis On-Line

Peter Smith
 

St. Louis Online - A Virtual Narrow Gauge Convention for 2020

Final day of the Convention will be on Saturday, September 5

 

  • Three more great clinics and two excellent layouts
  • Presentation on the Narrow Gauge Preservation Foundation
  • What’s happening at PBL
  • Business Meeting to hear from future convention committees and accept bids for 2024 & 2025. 
  • Special Presentation on the rebuild of D&RGW 168
  • Details at 40nngc.com


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

Robert Bell
 

Interesting.  I said before 1965, but actually it had to have been before 1964.  My parents moved to FL in March of 1964 and prior to that they were in Parshall, ND for only about 3 months.  Before that they were in Great Falls, MT for several years.  I never knew dad to really be a model railroader when I a little kid, so the kit had to have been purchased when they were in Montana.  

I have not been able to locate the directions...they're around here somewhere, lol.

Rob Bell


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

duncan
 

John, Rob and Dale,

    Yes, the LaBelle F&CC kits were produced somewhere in the 60's, I believe.  They were a limited run kit.  As I understand it there were only about 250 of each kit (the combine and the coach) manufactured.  I don't know why they were limited run.  Maybe because there weren't that many F&CC modelers out there.

    The model Rob showed is a coach and the combine kit did have two windows in the side, in the baggage area.  Many early roads had windows in the baggage section, I guess before they figured out that wasn't a good idea.

    The boxes for the kits had green labels.  I don't believe any other LaBelle kit had that kind of label.

    If you look at the picture of Rob's car you can easily see how much bigger the windows are.    And the cars were longer.  As you compare lengths of cars, even on the same road, you will find differences in the lengths.  Usually due to the cars being made by different manufacturers.  But, sometimes even the same manufacturer will make different length  cars of the same type in different years.  On the DSP&P/C&S (the roads I model the most) there are maybe something like five, or six, different lengths of coach cars.

    As for the 12/13 windows per side issue, all three coach kits (D&RGW, F&CC and D&FtW)  are prototypically correct. Manufacturers of prototype cars varied the window size, shape and numbers on their cars.  I believe the D&RGW Jackson and Sharp coaches were originally 13 windows per side.  During a rebuild it was decided to sheath over the window by the stove.  If you look you will almost invariably see a stack, on the roof, over the space of that blanked out window.

    Hope this is of some help!

Duncan Harvey


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

Climax@...
 

That would put it back in the original factory, inside an old freight depot on the south side of the parallel tracks between Madison and Milwaukee on the west side of Oconomowoc Wisconsin!. I remember going there and buying one of the first 15th anniversary kits they put out in 1965, still got the built cars.
DB

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stutz
Sent: Sep 2, 2020 12:12 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io, claneon30
Subject: Re: [HOn3] LaBelle F&CC kits

Chris

We could of course, but speculation is so much fun.

And my current estimate is that these odd prototype HOn3 kits date from 40-50 years ago, which puts them a bit before Rick's involvement with LaBelle.

John Stutz

On September 1, 2020 at 7:46 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

You can also just call Rick Steele, current owner of LaBelle and he can answer all your questions.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Sep 1, 2020, at 8:29 PM, John Stutz < john.stutz@...> wrote:

Cliff & Duncan

Thanks for your replies. 

I had previously found that the LaBelle D&FtW coach was identical to the D&RGW coach, and suspected this was also true of the F&CC coach.  You both confirm that the F&CC kit definitely differed.  Since I have never seen one, I am wondering when it was offered and why it was dropped?  Bit of mystery here.

Cliff - If you have an original box and instructions, could you provide the kit code, and the address that LaBelle was then using?   The D&FtW kit is HOn3-20, with the original (?)  PO box 22, Oconomowoc, WI 53066 address, and priced at $12.75.  Which price was up at least two steps from the $5.95 on my oldest HOn3-2x kit box.

On reexamining the D&FtW coach I find that there is one difference from the D&RG version: In the D&FtW kit both sides have 13 windows, against 12 & 13 for the D&RG.  Given what I infer regarding LaBelle's woodworking technology, this is a trivial difference, perhaps simply due to over production of the 13 window side.   The two kits have the same window sizes and spacing, and overall side length.  

How do the F&CC kit's window's size and spacing and the overall side length compare to the D&RG version?

John



 

 


Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

Dale Buxton
 

It has been A long time since I've seen a LaBelle F&CC combine, so correct me if i'm wrong. But didn't they have side windows in the baggage section? I know I saw that on some Combine somewhere along the line that had this feature. From a security standpoint, I always thought that was an odd thing to do.

Dale Buxton

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:37 AM Robert Bell via groups.io <ionhoss=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
John,
I suspect closer to 60 years ago as I am 55 and the kit was most likely purchased in the mid-1950's to early 1960's by my dad.  I have the instructions somewhere, but I do not believe the kit was in the original box.  I partially built it in the 1980's (?).  Attached are a couple of picts of it on my Skagway warf with a BS coach and an OR&W car.  Please forgive the color green I used, back then I didn't have any Pullman Green so I used what I had.

Rob Bell










Re: LaBelle F&CC kits

Robert Bell
 

John,
I suspect closer to 60 years ago as I am 55 and the kit was most likely purchased in the mid-1950's to early 1960's by my dad.  I have the instructions somewhere, but I do not believe the kit was in the original box.  I partially built it in the 1980's (?).  Attached are a couple of picts of it on my Skagway warf with a BS coach and an OR&W car.  Please forgive the color green I used, back then I didn't have any Pullman Green so I used what I had.

Rob Bell









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