Date   

Re: Wheelset question

Robert Veefkind
 

Ugh ieyz N.Y. e E’s was sea’s sh  was he my e day seerrr e set d we just 


On Aug 14, 2020, at 12:50 PM, Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:

.7525 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Aug 14, 2020, at 7:42 AM, Bruce <in2trains@...> wrote:


Ric,

What is the overall length of the one(s) used for HOn3?

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce
419-602-3584 cell



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 8:52 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Brian these are what I generally use for tuning trucks  !

Ric Case
EBT Modeler
Hamilton Ohio
1-513-375-7694

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 8:15 AM kevin b via groups.io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I know drill bits are hard to cut, but could one be cut to the length of an axel? Then slipped into the side frame? It would have to be reversed for the other side of the truck. Just a thought......


well, they break like going out of style if you're not careful, so,,,, why couldn't one be cut?
i'd say use a Dremel with a cutting disc, you know the stone type that ALSO break like no tomorrow.....

if it were me, i'd make the cut then round over the end of the bit there to some extent so it sorta fits up in the other axle pocket.
that way it would help keep itself "true" to the other side.
I can see this process ending up with mis-aligned holes if one isn't mindful of that ahead of time.
that's my take on it, for what it's worth.

thanks.
Kevin.



Re: Wheelset question

Bruce
 

Thanks.

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce Bowie
419-602-3584
in2trains@...

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 12:50 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
.7525 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Aug 14, 2020, at 7:42 AM, Bruce <in2trains@...> wrote:


Ric,

What is the overall length of the one(s) used for HOn3?

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce
419-602-3584 cell



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 8:52 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Brian these are what I generally use for tuning trucks  !

Ric Case
EBT Modeler
Hamilton Ohio
1-513-375-7694

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 8:15 AM kevin b via groups.io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I know drill bits are hard to cut, but could one be cut to the length of an axel? Then slipped into the side frame? It would have to be reversed for the other side of the truck. Just a thought......


well, they break like going out of style if you're not careful, so,,,, why couldn't one be cut?
i'd say use a Dremel with a cutting disc, you know the stone type that ALSO break like no tomorrow.....

if it were me, i'd make the cut then round over the end of the bit there to some extent so it sorta fits up in the other axle pocket.
that way it would help keep itself "true" to the other side.
I can see this process ending up with mis-aligned holes if one isn't mindful of that ahead of time.
that's my take on it, for what it's worth.

thanks.
Kevin.



Re: Wheelset question

Ric Case
 

.7525 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Aug 14, 2020, at 7:42 AM, Bruce <in2trains@...> wrote:


Ric,

What is the overall length of the one(s) used for HOn3?

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce
419-602-3584 cell



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 8:52 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Brian these are what I generally use for tuning trucks  !

Ric Case
EBT Modeler
Hamilton Ohio
1-513-375-7694

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 8:15 AM kevin b via groups.io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I know drill bits are hard to cut, but could one be cut to the length of an axel? Then slipped into the side frame? It would have to be reversed for the other side of the truck. Just a thought......


well, they break like going out of style if you're not careful, so,,,, why couldn't one be cut?
i'd say use a Dremel with a cutting disc, you know the stone type that ALSO break like no tomorrow.....

if it were me, i'd make the cut then round over the end of the bit there to some extent so it sorta fits up in the other axle pocket.
that way it would help keep itself "true" to the other side.
I can see this process ending up with mis-aligned holes if one isn't mindful of that ahead of time.
that's my take on it, for what it's worth.

thanks.
Kevin.



Re: Wheelset question

Bruce
 

Ric,

What is the overall length of the one(s) used for HOn3?

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce
419-602-3584 cell



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 8:52 PM Ric Case <ebtmodeler@...> wrote:
Brian these are what I generally use for tuning trucks  !

Ric Case
EBT Modeler
Hamilton Ohio
1-513-375-7694

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 8:15 AM kevin b via groups.io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I know drill bits are hard to cut, but could one be cut to the length of an axel? Then slipped into the side frame? It would have to be reversed for the other side of the truck. Just a thought......


well, they break like going out of style if you're not careful, so,,,, why couldn't one be cut?
i'd say use a Dremel with a cutting disc, you know the stone type that ALSO break like no tomorrow.....

if it were me, i'd make the cut then round over the end of the bit there to some extent so it sorta fits up in the other axle pocket.
that way it would help keep itself "true" to the other side.
I can see this process ending up with mis-aligned holes if one isn't mindful of that ahead of time.
that's my take on it, for what it's worth.

thanks.
Kevin.



Re: Wheelset question

Ric Case
 

Gents the cutting surface is only one end ! The other side acts like a burnishing tool! 
The one I have was specially cut for a friend years ago! 
I believe by the original mfg. before they were offered by micro mark. 
Wish I could have kept the ones from my friends estates! 
Their estates were dumped by children before I could ask to purchase! Hope this helps 

Ric Case 
EBT Modeler 
Hamilton Ohio 
1-513-375-7694

On Aug 14, 2020, at 5:26 AM, John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:

 Lloyd

There is also the question of axle length. I believe that I have a half dozen different lengths in stock, with PSCs shortest at a little over 0.61", and the old Central Valley axles longest at 0.75". The difference amounts to about a scale foot! And can vary by a scale inch or so, between batches, for some makers.

Needlepoint axle angles are typically about 50-55 degrees, so they ride at the point in a 60 degree axle hole. But about 20 years ago PSC got in a batch that were noticeably over 60 degrees. I modified a drill to cut a wider angle in the axle box for those trucks.

I recently purchased some HOn3 sideframes feom Shapeways, intended to take Kadee wheelsets, which proved to be a little tight. To open these up, I modified a drill by grinding the point to a little over 60 degrees, then used diamond file to flatten one flute parallel with the drill axis and extended right to the point. This gives a flt cutting face that scrapes without digging in, just like the commercial ones in Ric's photos. The drill diameter is a trade off: Large diameter ensures that the axle box cone extends to the surface and cannot drag on the axle, but may cut away much of the axle box. If one can ensure that the axle point is carried at the apex of the axlebox cone, then the drill diameter need be only about 20% over the axle diameter.

John Stutz

On August 13, 2020 at 11:49 PM lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

IF think a call to sam at kadee and to george at blackstone are in order to find out the angle of the bearing surface in their trucks and their axle length I know they are not the same. Maybe PSC also.
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310) 951-9097


On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 11:41 PM Mark Kasprowicz < mark@...> wrote:
I'm not sure I would want the cutter double ended. I'd only want to adjust one side at a time, not both.
I;ve been looking at the ones from MicroMart wondering if they can be shorted from HO. Anyone tried it?

Mark K


--
lloyd lehrer

 


Re: Wheelset question

John Stutz
 

Lloyd

There is also the question of axle length. I believe that I have a half dozen different lengths in stock, with PSCs shortest at a little over 0.61", and the old Central Valley axles longest at 0.75". The difference amounts to about a scale foot! And can vary by a scale inch or so, between batches, for some makers.

Needlepoint axle angles are typically about 50-55 degrees, so they ride at the point in a 60 degree axle hole. But about 20 years ago PSC got in a batch that were noticeably over 60 degrees. I modified a drill to cut a wider angle in the axle box for those trucks.

I recently purchased some HOn3 sideframes feom Shapeways, intended to take Kadee wheelsets, which proved to be a little tight. To open these up, I modified a drill by grinding the point to a little over 60 degrees, then used diamond file to flatten one flute parallel with the drill axis and extended right to the point. This gives a flt cutting face that scrapes without digging in, just like the commercial ones in Ric's photos. The drill diameter is a trade off: Large diameter ensures that the axle box cone extends to the surface and cannot drag on the axle, but may cut away much of the axle box. If one can ensure that the axle point is carried at the apex of the axlebox cone, then the drill diameter need be only about 20% over the axle diameter.

John Stutz

On August 13, 2020 at 11:49 PM lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

IF think a call to sam at kadee and to george at blackstone are in order to find out the angle of the bearing surface in their trucks and their axle length I know they are not the same. Maybe PSC also.
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310) 951-9097


On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 11:41 PM Mark Kasprowicz < mark@...> wrote:
I'm not sure I would want the cutter double ended. I'd only want to adjust one side at a time, not both.
I;ve been looking at the ones from MicroMart wondering if they can be shorted from HO. Anyone tried it?

Mark K


--
lloyd lehrer

 


Re: Wheelset question

lloyd lehrer
 

IF think a call to sam at kadee and to george at blackstone are in order to find out the angle of the bearing surface in their trucks and their axle length I know they are not the same. Maybe PSC also.
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 11:41 PM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
I'm not sure I would want the cutter double ended. I'd only want to adjust one side at a time, not both.
I;ve been looking at the ones from MicroMart wondering if they can be shorted from HO. Anyone tried it?

Mark K


--
lloyd lehrer


Re: Wheelset question

Mark Kasprowicz
 

I'm not sure I would want the cutter double ended. I'd only want to adjust one side at a time, not both.
I;ve been looking at the ones from MicroMart wondering if they can be shorted from HO. Anyone tried it?

Mark K


Re: Wheelset question

Ric Case
 

Brian these are what I generally use for tuning trucks  !

Ric Case
EBT Modeler
Hamilton Ohio
1-513-375-7694

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 8:15 AM kevin b via groups.io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I know drill bits are hard to cut, but could one be cut to the length of an axel? Then slipped into the side frame? It would have to be reversed for the other side of the truck. Just a thought......


well, they break like going out of style if you're not careful, so,,,, why couldn't one be cut?
i'd say use a Dremel with a cutting disc, you know the stone type that ALSO break like no tomorrow.....

if it were me, i'd make the cut then round over the end of the bit there to some extent so it sorta fits up in the other axle pocket.
that way it would help keep itself "true" to the other side.
I can see this process ending up with mis-aligned holes if one isn't mindful of that ahead of time.
that's my take on it, for what it's worth.

thanks.
Kevin.



Repairs

Paul Buhrke
 

Gary and Lyman repairing a line break.
Gary is the Lineman, Lyman is the Groundman.
Couldn't resist.
--
Paul Buhrke
D&RGW Salida Division
Lost in the Black Canyon in 1929


Re: FOR SALE: BLACKSTONE #B340656 UTLX "GRAMPS" Tank Car, #55339. Purchased new, never run...duplicate # on my roster. Comes in original carton and packaging. Price is $65.00, plus $8.30 USPS Priority shipping, to a CONTUS mailing address, only. Payment by PayPal Friends and Family, only. Will ship within 2 days of PayPal payment authorization. PM me for payment info and your USPS shipping address. Thanks for looking! Mark Lewis #b340656

Mark Lewis
 

SOLD!
Mark Lewis


On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 9:41 PM Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:


Re: Placerville Gondola loads

Russ Norris
 

Great explanation of the Chance facility in Mount Union.  When I lived there from 1972 to 1978, the plant had been idle since 1956 and was in the process of being dismantled.  After they removed the corrugated siding you could see the internal mechanism, conveyors, sand flotation tank and the rest.  Somewhere I have photos of it.

Russ Norris, MMR

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:33 AM John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:

Don

My guess is that these are inner and outer sections of three counter-flow density separation cones for a milling operation.  With a cone's wide end up, a mix of materials having two distinct density ranges is introduced at the top, into an upward flow of liquid that has a controlled density.  The upward flowing liquid acts a bit like quicksand, but its density and flow is adjusted so that the lighter of the inputs flows off at the top, while the denser sinks, and is periodically flushed out the bottom.  

The "Chance sand-flotation process" used such cone separators, running with a mix of sand and water, to separate coal from slate and boney coal.  The EBT outlived most other NG railroads because Rockhill Coal had built a Chance process plant at Mt Union, and needed the railroad to move raw coal from multiple small, otherwise non-competitive mines, to the processing/transfer plant. 

In a metal ore mill, separation cones would be an alternative to the vibrating tables.  Compared to such tables, separation cones might be more sensitive to small density differences, would probably be somewhat less selective, but would have far higher throughput.  But as I lack any detailed references on metal ore milling, this is mostly speculation.

Hope it helps.

John Stutz

On August 9, 2020 at 1:48 PM Don Bergman <DBRenegade@...> wrote:

Folks,

I have long been fascinated with several photographs at Placerville of gondolas with mill equipment.  I have modeled the first one of the 3 gondolas and am working on the second one.

What might the "back" hidden side of item being loaded onto the wagons look like?    (See second URL below.)
What would any of the objects on all 3 gondola loads be used for?  In the third gondola what might the farthest item be? Looks like a big grinding stone to me.

Thanks for the help.

Don Bergman
Holland, MI


Three D&amp;RGW gondolas, #9719, #8836 &amp; #8196, loaded with mining equipment on the house track behind the RGS Placerville depot.&lt;br /&gt; RGS Placerville, CO ca. 1900-1916&lt;br /&gt; In book &quot;Rio Grande Southern, The: An Ultimate Pictorial Study&quot; page 56&lt;br /&gt; Same image as RD128-069. Also in &quot;RGS Story Vol. I&quot;, p. 278 and &quot;Narrow Gauge Pictorial Vol. III&quot;, p. 89.&lt;br /&gt; Thanks to Don Bergman for additional information.





 


 


--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Re: Placerville Gondola loads

John Stutz
 

Don

My guess is that these are inner and outer sections of three counter-flow density separation cones for a milling operation.  With a cone's wide end up, a mix of materials having two distinct density ranges is introduced at the top, into an upward flow of liquid that has a controlled density.  The upward flowing liquid acts a bit like quicksand, but its density and flow is adjusted so that the lighter of the inputs flows off at the top, while the denser sinks, and is periodically flushed out the bottom.  

The "Chance sand-flotation process" used such cone separators, running with a mix of sand and water, to separate coal from slate and boney coal.  The EBT outlived most other NG railroads because Rockhill Coal had built a Chance process plant at Mt Union, and needed the railroad to move raw coal from multiple small, otherwise non-competitive mines, to the processing/transfer plant. 

In a metal ore mill, separation cones would be an alternative to the vibrating tables.  Compared to such tables, separation cones might be more sensitive to small density differences, would probably be somewhat less selective, but would have far higher throughput.  But as I lack any detailed references on metal ore milling, this is mostly speculation.

Hope it helps.

John Stutz

On August 9, 2020 at 1:48 PM Don Bergman <DBRenegade@...> wrote:

Folks,

I have long been fascinated with several photographs at Placerville of gondolas with mill equipment.  I have modeled the first one of the 3 gondolas and am working on the second one.

What might the "back" hidden side of item being loaded onto the wagons look like?    (See second URL below.)
What would any of the objects on all 3 gondola loads be used for?  In the third gondola what might the farthest item be? Looks like a big grinding stone to me.

Thanks for the help.

Don Bergman
Holland, MI


Three D&amp;RGW gondolas, #9719, #8836 &amp; #8196, loaded with mining equipment on the house track behind the RGS Placerville depot.&lt;br /&gt; RGS Placerville, CO ca. 1900-1916&lt;br /&gt; In book &quot;Rio Grande Southern, The: An Ultimate Pictorial Study&quot; page 56&lt;br /&gt; Same image as RD128-069. Also in &quot;RGS Story Vol. I&quot;, p. 278 and &quot;Narrow Gauge Pictorial Vol. III&quot;, p. 89.&lt;br /&gt; Thanks to Don Bergman for additional information.
ngtrainpics.photoshelter.com





 


 


FOR SALE: BLACKSTONE #B340656 UTLX "GRAMPS" Tank Car, #55339. Purchased new, never run...duplicate # on my roster. Comes in original carton and packaging. Price is $65.00, plus $8.30 USPS Priority shipping, to a CONTUS mailing address, only. Payment by PayPal Friends and Family, only. Will ship within 2 days of PayPal payment authorization. PM me for payment info and your USPS shipping address. Thanks for looking! Mark Lewis #b340656

Mark Lewis
 


RGS layout updates - trees!

Steven Haworth
 

Howdy.
I've been working on adding trees to the layout lately. Here's a blog post with a few comments, and lots of photos:


- Steve Haworth
RGS history - http://www.rgsrr.com/
Blog - http://rgsrr.blogspot.com/               FB - https://www.facebook.com/stevesrgs/


Re: Videos: Chuck Molnar's Rio Grande Southern

Steven Haworth
 

Looking great !!!

- Steve Haworth
RGS history - http://www.rgsrr.com/
Blog - http://rgsrr.blogspot.com/               FB - https://www.facebook.com/stevesrgs/


On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 12:20 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Videos: Chuck Molnar's Rio Grande Southern

Courtesy of Jim Williams, here are some video of Chuck's HOn3 railroad. Chuck lives in Carlsbad, CA.

http://stdandng.blogspot.com/search/label/video%20at%20Chuck%27s%20Nov%202015

http://stdandng.blogspot.com/search/label/video%20at%20Chuck%27s%20Nov.%202016

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Model Railroads of Southern California

https://groups.io/g/ModelRailroadsofSoCalif

https://www.facebook.com/groups/150347595443


Videos: Chuck Molnar's Rio Grande Southern

Bob Chaparro
 

Videos: Chuck Molnar's Rio Grande Southern

Courtesy of Jim Williams, here are some video of Chuck's HOn3 railroad. Chuck lives in Carlsbad, CA.

http://stdandng.blogspot.com/search/label/video%20at%20Chuck%27s%20Nov%202015

http://stdandng.blogspot.com/search/label/video%20at%20Chuck%27s%20Nov.%202016

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Model Railroads of Southern California

https://groups.io/g/ModelRailroadsofSoCalif

https://www.facebook.com/groups/150347595443


Photos: Chuck Molnar's Rio Grande Southern

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Chuck Molnar's Rio Grande Southern

Courtesy of Jim Williams, here are some photos of Chuck's HOn3 railroad. Chuck lives in Carlsbad, CA.

http://stdandng.blogspot.com/search/label/Chuck

I had the pleasure of meeting Chuck several years ago. He is a very talented modeler.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Model Railroads of Southern California

https://groups.io/g/ModelRailroadsofSoCalif

https://www.facebook.com/groups/150347595443


#2108 Buggy - HO scale

richrands
 

The Buggy is a laser cut wood kit from Berkshire Valley Models. 

Driver and horses are available separately.

https://www.berkshirevalleymodels.com/apps/webstore/products/category/1558878?page=1

 


Re: Placerville Gondola loads

Ted Wilton
 

The large conical devices in the gondolas in Placerville look like cyclones for a mill to me. The large "wheel" in the far end of the last gon might be a reel of canvas hose perhaps [?]. Placerville was the loading/unloading point for the Standard Chemical Company, who built a uranium/radium/vanadium mill [the Joe Jr. mill] at the Club Ranch area [now known as Uravan [sort-of]] downstream along the San Miguel River [near the confluence with the Dolores River], several miles from Naturita. Mill construction started in 1910. Water issues being what they were, Standard first employed a dry process for recovery but it was ineffective, and they converted the mill to a wet recovery circuit in 1914. Perhaps this photo depicts some of the equipment required for the conversion of the mill to that process? The conical devices are not ball mills. While they are bulky, they are light weight as there are three in the gondola. Ball mills, on the other hand are very heavy pieces of machinery and multiple units would greatly stress the strength of these wood gondolas. 

It is somewhat surprising that so few photographs of any kind of loads in the Placerville area exist. I have a soft-bound book "Standard Chemical Company, A Collection from the Rimrocker Historical Society" that has a lot of photos depicting the mill at various stages of its life, and it seems that Standard, later Union Carbide and Carbon/Union Carbide, was almost regularly upgrading/expanding/revising the mill. There are several photographs of very large Fairbanks Morse diesel engines at the mill [brought in by truck and trailer from Placerville in 1918]. Fuel was off-loaded at Placerville and trucked to the mill [there is a photo in the book dated 1921, showing a picture of the Standard Chemical tank car that Trout Creek Engineering sells, with the caption "Oil  for engines at Joe, Jr., 1921". The mill was electrified, and there was a power plant on the San Miguel River at the mill site.


Regards,

TED

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