Date   

Re: coreless motors again

Dale Buxton
 

Bob,

Well, that would do it!

This is a coincidence of timing. Saturday I did and TCS WOW sound install on a Colorado Midland 300 class 2-8-0. Long ago I had put whimpy springs under the wheel bearings. I wanted the model to equalize and travel better. Then I put the project away. Now 30+ years later I've returned to the project. I'm trying to make a D&RG C-39 or C-41 class 2-8-0. So, I had cut the bronze coil springs I used about in half. Well, the springs under the rear drivers were in there so loose that the drivers traveled too far up and the insides of the driver flanges were rubbing on the bottom of the sloped part of the firebox next to the frame. The insulated driver was intermittently shorting out when it touched the bottom of the firebox. Fortunately, I found this out before I put the decoder in! I too put my model in a foam cradle and found that one of the springs had disappeared. I replaced springs on this driver set with stiffer steel versions and the upwards travel problem and short went away.

I as well have experienced the joys of driver springs popping out while working on the drive train of a PFM K-27.

D. Buxton 


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:38 AM Robert Veefkind via groups.io <snookdust=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Turns out it wasn't the motor. I had tested the loco by laying it upside down in a cradle with it slightly leaning toward me and putting one lead to the drawbar and one to the frame-it ran fine. I took the lead off the frame and tried the uninsulated drivers and all seemed okay but some hesitation on 2 of them. When I tilted the engine the other way the front insulated driver barely skimmed the driver retaining plate causing a short when the driver moved slightly to that side. moving the retainer plate slightly cured that problem but still intermittent running on track. Removing the rear driver showed a bigger problem--the bearings, the springs etc was clogged with paint making electrical contact almost impossible. that's a whole new ball game with a lot of work and wondering where the driver springs went.  Bob V.


In a message dated 5/11/2020 12:05:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, bdunlevy@... writes:

In the latest Gazette (got mine Friday) there is an article by Craig Symington on "Potpourri".  One thing he discusses is micro motors and where he gets them.  Mostly off of eBay.  He shows some of what he has gotten along with other items usually off of eBay.  Take a look and maybe it will give you some ideas of what you want.

Bruce Dunlevy



Mac based Layout Planning Software

Michael Dunn
 

Historically, I have used Adobe Illustrator with Hot Door's CADTools and Rick Johnson's Graffix Trackplan plug-ins. Rick hasn't updated his plug-ins in years though.

Any recommendation for a substitute that will run natively on a Mac (i.e. with out having to run Bootcamp, Parallels, Crossover, etc.)? I'm handlaying using Fast Track jigs, so a dedicated manufacturers library isn't necessarily needed.

Any specific likes or dislikes of what others have used?

Thanks in advance!

Mike


Re: coreless motors again

Climax@...
 

Gremlins found!

-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Veefkind via groups.io"
Sent: May 11, 2020 1:37 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] coreless motors again

Turns out it wasn't the motor. I had tested the loco by laying it upside down in a cradle with it slightly leaning toward me and putting one lead to the drawbar and one to the frame-it ran fine. I took the lead off the frame and tried the uninsulated drivers and all seemed okay but some hesitation on 2 of them. When I tilted the engine the other way the front insulated driver barely skimmed the driver retaining plate causing a short when the driver moved slightly to that side. moving the retainer plate slightly cured that problem but still intermittent running on track. Removing the rear driver showed a bigger problem--the bearings, the springs etc was clogged with paint making electrical contact almost impossible. that's a whole new ball game with a lot of work and wondering where the driver springs went.  Bob V.


In a message dated 5/11/2020 12:05:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, bdunlevy@... writes:

In the latest Gazette (got mine Friday) there is an article by Craig Symington on "Potpourri".  One thing he discusses is micro motors and where he gets them.  Mostly off of eBay.  He shows some of what he has gotten along with other items usually off of eBay.  Take a look and maybe it will give you some ideas of what you want.

Bruce Dunlevy



Re: Staging Track Spacing

Dave Trimble
 

I have a six track yard. 

Given that my layout is used by an operating group, I found, out that by experience, that 2 1/4” is a practical minimum.

Dave


coreless motors again

Robert Veefkind
 

Turns out it wasn't the motor. I had tested the loco by laying it upside down in a cradle with it slightly leaning toward me and putting one lead to the drawbar and one to the frame-it ran fine. I took the lead off the frame and tried the uninsulated drivers and all seemed okay but some hesitation on 2 of them. When I tilted the engine the other way the front insulated driver barely skimmed the driver retaining plate causing a short when the driver moved slightly to that side. moving the retainer plate slightly cured that problem but still intermittent running on track. Removing the rear driver showed a bigger problem--the bearings, the springs etc was clogged with paint making electrical contact almost impossible. that's a whole new ball game with a lot of work and wondering where the driver springs went.  Bob V.


In a message dated 5/11/2020 12:05:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, bdunlevy@... writes:

In the latest Gazette (got mine Friday) there is an article by Craig Symington on "Potpourri".  One thing he discusses is micro motors and where he gets them.  Mostly off of eBay.  He shows some of what he has gotten along with other items usually off of eBay.  Take a look and maybe it will give you some ideas of what you want.

Bruce Dunlevy



Re: Staging Track Spacing

lloyd lehrer
 

The spacing depends on physical criteria of the Operator working space at the layout. I am not too ham handed but an tall so I can read the car numbering but need a lower shelf height to get my fingers in and realign a truck. If you use retailers instead of fingers it's less space but harder for me to retrieve the retailer. On upper tracks I need less space for fingers.  Just stick some cars next to each other at the layout height and depth you want and try not bumping the other cars.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, May 11, 2020, 10:02 AM Dusty <Dustburm@q.com> wrote:
Staging is 'inline' and visible, on layout trackage. Virtually no need to 'read' or handle cars. Re-staging is way bill flipping. I have up to 24" width for seven tracks.

1. I have no practical Hon3 Staging Track Spacing experience. I do have a great deal of operating experience on standard guage railroads.
2. I'm thinking seven tracks with three - 3 way lap switches on each end.
3. When I lay two NMRA Hon3 guages next to one another it looks like 1.75 " minimum center spacing. Is this enough? Is two inches 'safe'.
4. If I do need to swap in a car my rerailers work at 1.75" spacing.

I haven't spiked down a test as of yet.

Dusty Burman 
623 261-8707


--
lloyd lehrer


Staging Track Spacing

Dusty
 

Staging is 'inline' and visible, on layout trackage. Virtually no need to 'read' or handle cars. Re-staging is way bill flipping. I have up to 24" width for seven tracks.

1. I have no practical Hon3 Staging Track Spacing experience. I do have a great deal of operating experience on standard guage railroads.
2. I'm thinking seven tracks with three - 3 way lap switches on each end.
3. When I lay two NMRA Hon3 guages next to one another it looks like 1.75 " minimum center spacing. Is this enough? Is two inches 'safe'.
4. If I do need to swap in a car my rerailers work at 1.75" spacing.

I haven't spiked down a test as of yet.

Dusty Burman 
623 261-8707


Re: coreless motors again

 

In the latest Gazette (got mine Friday) there is an article by Craig Symington on "Potpourri".  One thing he discusses is micro motors and where he gets them.  Mostly off of eBay.  He shows some of what he has gotten along with other items usually off of eBay.  Take a look and maybe it will give you some ideas of what you want.

Bruce Dunlevy

 


Re: coreless motors again

asandrini
 

Germany.




Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Climax@...
Date: 5/10/20 5:03 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

Where are Faulharbor motors made?  Quality production or mass production?
Mule

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Buxton
Sent: May 10, 2020 7:59 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

I agree Al,

You have to ask yourself this. Why does Märklin put motors of this quality in everything they sell?  Yes, the keep the price down by an economy of scale. Why are they using high end motors?

D,Buxton


On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:37 AM asandrini <asandrini@...> wrote:
If you want slow speeds and money is not a problem, nothing is better that a Faulharbor motor with a 4:1 gearhead.  I have them in my HOn30 brass 0-4-0's.

Al



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...>
Date: 5/10/20 1:47 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

Those Sagamis were not as good as they were cracked up to be mainly because they were very 'coggie' which shows up at low speeds. If you can get hold of a suitable Mashima that would be better and of course there are the Chinese six pole cubes that appear on ebay for about $2-3. They are good at low speed, have good torque and run smooth. They come in 12, 15 and 18 mm versions. Ex car wing mirror motors.

Mark K


Re: LocoDoc

Robert Herrick
 

Thank's, Steve. I appreciate the update.


Re: LocoDoc

Mike Conder
 

Thanks Chris!

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:25 AM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
Per Wayne at the Denver Train show in early March, he’ll still be in Salida.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On May 10, 2020, at 9:18 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Hey Steve, is he moving out of town or locally?  Any idea?  I'm now less than an hour away from him and was thinking about visiting. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 7:50 AM STEVEN WYSOWSKI <swysowski@...> wrote:
Bob, 
I currently have an open issue with Wayne. Yes , as others have said, he has health issues and has had them for a while. He is moving as well and the current crisis may have added another issue for him. I have spoken with him as recently as last week, (first few days of May) , he is willing to complete but I suggest bi-monthly phone calls. To be fair, I have re geared and remitirse several FED 4-4-0 and C-16’s using his kits and he has always gotten the items to me here in CT quickly. Good luck!

steve




Re: LocoDoc

claneon30
 

Per Wayne at the Denver Train show in early March, he’ll still be in Salida.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On May 10, 2020, at 9:18 AM, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:

Hey Steve, is he moving out of town or locally?  Any idea?  I'm now less than an hour away from him and was thinking about visiting. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 7:50 AM STEVEN WYSOWSKI <swysowski@...> wrote:
Bob, 
I currently have an open issue with Wayne. Yes , as others have said, he has health issues and has had them for a while. He is moving as well and the current crisis may have added another issue for him. I have spoken with him as recently as last week, (first few days of May) , he is willing to complete but I suggest bi-monthly phone calls. To be fair, I have re geared and remitirse several FED 4-4-0 and C-16’s using his kits and he has always gotten the items to me here in CT quickly. Good luck!

steve




FOR SALE - KADEE 714

Bruce Bowie
 

Group,

I have been adding to my tub of HOn3 cars, mostly kits, for decades.  I am finally building my East Broad Top layout.  Of course, I have also been adding detail parts, trucks and couplers so when the day comes I finally have a place to operate them, I am good to go for building my fleet.  The world keeps marching on and improving products is just one measure.  Kadee (you gotta' love 'em) has come out with a new narrow gauge coupler.  I have read numerous posts about their merits and demerits.  I personally feel strongly that having a "standard" is the correct way to go from both a construction and from an operating standpoint.  So, I have decided to go with Kadees new 705 as my standard.

With that said, I have 30 new old stock Kadee 714's still in sealed packages.  I will let the entire batch go for $60 plus $10 shipping.  As a bonus, I will include a 702 Assembly Tool (no box or instructions).  Payment through PayPal preferred, but a check will also work.

Please contact me off-list if interested.

Bruce Bowie
Huron, Ohio
419-602-3584
in2trains@...


Re: LocoDoc

Mike Conder
 

Hey Steve, is he moving out of town or locally?  Any idea?  I'm now less than an hour away from him and was thinking about visiting. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 7:50 AM STEVEN WYSOWSKI <swysowski@...> wrote:
Bob, 
I currently have an open issue with Wayne. Yes , as others have said, he has health issues and has had them for a while. He is moving as well and the current crisis may have added another issue for him. I have spoken with him as recently as last week, (first few days of May) , he is willing to complete but I suggest bi-monthly phone calls. To be fair, I have re geared and remitirse several FED 4-4-0 and C-16’s using his kits and he has always gotten the items to me here in CT quickly. Good luck!

steve


Re: LocoDoc

Climax@...
 

Another case of honey more attractive then vinegar.

-----Original Message-----
From: STEVEN WYSOWSKI
Sent: May 10, 2020 9:50 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] LocoDoc

Bob, 
I currently have an open issue with Wayne. Yes , as others have said, he has health issues and has had them for a while. He is moving as well and the current crisis may have added another issue for him. I have spoken with him as recently as last week, (first few days of May) , he is willing to complete but I suggest bi-monthly phone calls. To be fair, I have re geared and remitirse several FED 4-4-0 and C-16’s using his kits and he has always gotten the items to me here in CT quickly. Good luck!

steve


Re: LocoDoc

STEVEN WYSOWSKI
 

Bob, 
I currently have an open issue with Wayne. Yes , as others have said, he has health issues and has had them for a while. He is moving as well and the current crisis may have added another issue for him. I have spoken with him as recently as last week, (first few days of May) , he is willing to complete but I suggest bi-monthly phone calls. To be fair, I have re geared and remitirse several FED 4-4-0 and C-16’s using his kits and he has always gotten the items to me here in CT quickly. Good luck!

steve


Re: coreless motors again

Lawrence Wisniewski <lwreno@...>
 

I second the comments on small Machimas .  Very good motors.  Don,t know if they have Faulhaber longjivity or not.   I did run into a few that weren't so good in 1980,s PBL imports..  I've never found a bad Faulhaber.  


-----Original Message-----
From: asandrini <asandrini@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 10, 2020 7:36 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

If you want slow speeds and money is not a problem, nothing is better that a Faulharbor motor with a 4:1 gearhead.  I have them in my HOn30 brass 0-4-0's.

Al



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...>
Date: 5/10/20 1:47 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

Those Sagamis were not as good as they were cracked up to be mainly because they were very 'coggie' which shows up at low speeds. If you can get hold of a suitable Mashima that would be better and of course there are the Chinese six pole cubes that appear on ebay for about $2-3. They are good at low speed, have good torque and run smooth. They come in 12, 15 and 18 mm versions. Ex car wing mirror motors.

Mark K


Re: coreless motors again

Lawrence Wisniewski <lwreno@...>
 

The  small Sagami motors were used in most of Key's small hon3 imports: for sure the RGS ten wheelers, the second run C-18's, many of the C&S engines.  All Korean stuff. Don't know about standard gauge applications.  The Key stuff was really maddening.  On the one hand, most of these engines had high quality mechanisms (once Key got the Koreans to understand what their problems were) but the little Sagami's started like slot cars.  Once past their clogging point, they could be throttled back nicely, but good scale starts were beyond their capabilities.  Faulhaber 1319's can be fitted into these locomotives as replacements and the resulting improvement is absolutely breath taking.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 10, 2020 7:47 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

You're right Mark.

Some of those Sagami's did have clogging problems. Especially in the 10, 12 and 14mm versions! But, that was mostly after they changed the design from the original concept of the magnets. The original design had one piece magnet tube around around the armature.  These were high quality ALNICO magnets. The magnetic gauss field completely surrounded the armature windings. This is why these motors were so efficient as drives for 35mm camera speed winders. Then Sahami changed to a pair of magnets to create the magnetic field and the clogging issues started to show up at low speeds. I think the field separation between the two magnets was too great. My old AFX slot cars had the same problem. 

Anyway, at the same time Sagami stopped using  a machined aluminum casings and went to a stamped metal ones. The tolerances weren't as tight anymore. To get around the clogging effect (that I think they created by economising the manufacturing process). They stated skewing the windings.  

I don't remember when Sagami started to skew the armature frames but it seems to me it was around 1977 to 80. I only ever found a few can motors with machined aluminum casings and skewed armatures. They were VERY NICE!!! I only bought a couple of Sagami's with the stamped metal frame tubes. The early quality just wasn't there anymore. I switched to Faulhaber micro-motors and never looked back. 

D. Buxton 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 2:47 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
Those Sagamis were not as good as they were cracked up to be mainly because they were very 'coggie' which shows up at low speeds. If you can get hold of a suitable Mashima that would be better and of course there are the Chinese six pole cubes that appear on ebay for about $2-3. They are good at low speed, have good torque and run smooth. They come in 12, 15 and 18 mm versions. Ex car wing mirror motors.

Mark K


Re: coreless motors again

Lawrence Wisniewski <lwreno@...>
 

Also the Faulhaber msytique has lots of appeal, snob and otherwise.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 10, 2020 7:59 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

I agree Al,

You have to ask yourself this. Why does Märklin put motors of this quality in everything they sell?  Yes, the keep the price down by an economy of scale. Why are they using high end motors?

D,Buxton


On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:37 AM asandrini <asandrini@...> wrote:
If you want slow speeds and money is not a problem, nothing is better that a Faulharbor motor with a 4:1 gearhead.  I have them in my HOn30 brass 0-4-0's.

Al



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...>
Date: 5/10/20 1:47 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

Those Sagamis were not as good as they were cracked up to be mainly because they were very 'coggie' which shows up at low speeds. If you can get hold of a suitable Mashima that would be better and of course there are the Chinese six pole cubes that appear on ebay for about $2-3. They are good at low speed, have good torque and run smooth. They come in 12, 15 and 18 mm versions. Ex car wing mirror motors.

Mark K


Re: coreless motors again

Lawrence Wisniewski <lwreno@...>
 

Faulhaber motors come from Europe, but I'm not sure whether it's Germany, Austria, or Switzerland.  According to Eldon the Motorman, the company uses batch production that focuses only on a minimum order number reservation approach, much like the limited run philosophy of many model RR suppliers.  They also have standing order relationships with local European manufacturers, who obviously have much better communications with them than we do over here.  They furnish motors to very high end clients as well, like areospace, who have high end budgets and contracts with them.  Their products seem to be much more obtainable by Europeans.  I'm not sure if Jack at Division Point ever uses Faulhabers.  I believe Bill Peter at PBL has on some of his runs.  The Motorman knew the system and would advise me about availability, prices, and turn around times.  He was always right.  Locodoc advertises use of Faulhabers in a lot of his kits.  He never shared any ordering info with me.  I tried repeatedly to get new motors from him, but only got a grand total of one, and eventually gave up.  The used market for Faulhabers is pretty big but difficult to navigate due to the seemingly endless variety of gearheads and electronic control devices supplied with them.  You'd really need a good working knowledge of electronics to find what you need for model railroading.  Even the basic stock motors come in a variety of voltages, shaft characteristics, and other features.  The company does whatever custom work clients want and are willing to pay for.   It's definitely a headache for us model railroaders to deal with.  But, the motor's are probably the best you can get.


-----Original Message-----
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 10, 2020 8:03 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

Where are Faulharbor motors made?  Quality production or mass production?
Mule

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Buxton
Sent: May 10, 2020 7:59 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

I agree Al,

You have to ask yourself this. Why does Märklin put motors of this quality in everything they sell?  Yes, the keep the price down by an economy of scale. Why are they using high end motors?

D,Buxton


On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:37 AM asandrini <asandrini@...> wrote:
If you want slow speeds and money is not a problem, nothing is better that a Faulharbor motor with a 4:1 gearhead.  I have them in my HOn30 brass 0-4-0's.

Al



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...>
Date: 5/10/20 1:47 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

Those Sagamis were not as good as they were cracked up to be mainly because they were very 'coggie' which shows up at low speeds. If you can get hold of a suitable Mashima that would be better and of course there are the Chinese six pole cubes that appear on ebay for about $2-3. They are good at low speed, have good torque and run smooth. They come in 12, 15 and 18 mm versions. Ex car wing mirror motors.

Mark K