Date   
Re: Coupler thoughts

Mike Conder
 

For those of you who have them: what are the dimensional differences between the two coupler boxes?

Mike Conder

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 2:25 PM NarrowMinded1 <nathan.kline83@...> wrote:
I wish they would have made a drop-in replacement, ala #158, for the #714's so you wouldn't have to hack up a car to put their coupler box and #705 coupler on.

Nathan


"Chris:

My experience with 705's has been positive, although some installs need an unreasonable amount of tinkering to get them installed. The 705's couple/uncouple to 714's, to my satisfaction (I am a manual/"skewer" uncoupler user) and will couple to the Sergent equipped car I built, but uncoupling can be a challenge.

My vote to your question is...705's.

My hope is that Kadee takes the many concerns voiced by HOn3 modelers and offers a smaller draft gear box to contain a coupler shank that would swap into molded on Blackstone and Rail Line draft gear boxes, without surgery.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C."

--
Nathan Kline
Tiadaghton Valley Railroad & Coal Co.
McConnellsburg, PA
--------------------------------------------------
Web: https://www.tiadaghtonvalleyrr.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TiadaghtonValleyRailroad/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ

Re: Coupler thoughts

NarrowMinded1
 

I wish they would have made a drop-in replacement, ala #158, for the #714's so you wouldn't have to hack up a car to put their coupler box and #705 coupler on.

Nathan


"Chris:

My experience with 705's has been positive, although some installs need an unreasonable amount of tinkering to get them installed. The 705's couple/uncouple to 714's, to my satisfaction (I am a manual/"skewer" uncoupler user) and will couple to the Sergent equipped car I built, but uncoupling can be a challenge.

My vote to your question is...705's.

My hope is that Kadee takes the many concerns voiced by HOn3 modelers and offers a smaller draft gear box to contain a coupler shank that would swap into molded on Blackstone and Rail Line draft gear boxes, without surgery.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C."

--
Nathan Kline
Tiadaghton Valley Railroad & Coal Co.
McConnellsburg, PA
--------------------------------------------------
Web: https://www.tiadaghtonvalleyrr.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TiadaghtonValleyRailroad/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVJMoICFWw9Muse6xm8moiQ

Re: Coupler thoughts

claneon30
 

All good. Getting the info that the 705 mate with the Sergents in most instances is helpful to me.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:21 PM, Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@...> wrote:

I know, Chris. in fact, your articles in the Annuals are what got me to try them. 

I have since installed them on 198 HO Std Gage cars, and they worked quite well.

I’ve since sold the entire Colorado Midland std gage layout and all the rolling stock.

I’m now starting on an HOn3 D&RG Chili Line layout and all the cars i’ve built have Sergents.

I just had to rattle your cage a little.  🤪

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 7, 2019, at 1:34 PM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

I was looking for feedback between the Kadees. The Sergents are great and I know some folks love them (remember I had a long article on installing them in the 2011 HOn3 Annual). But they are a different animal and unlikely to be included with a RTR car.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 11:14 AM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

Just because Chris says don't say it, does not mean the rest of us don't want data.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 9:59 AM Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@...> wrote:

Do NOT say Sergents.  ( I guess that leaves me out of the discussion.)  🤔


Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 7, 2019, at 11:11 AM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

Comrade Train Enthusiasts,

 

Now that the Kadee 705 have been out for awhile and we've had a chance to play with them, I have an informal polling question.

 

If someone were to offer a new ready-to-run car as we've seen from Blackstone or Micro-Trains, which coupler would you want it to come with: 714 or 705s?

 

Do NOT say Sergents.

 

Chris Lane





-- 
lloyd lehrer



Re: BS K-27 motors?

Craig Linn
 

I gotta say the upgrade wasn’t too bad at all...just take your time and keep your screws separate for each step. 

I did get a new motor assembly about a year ago and at that point they said they were starting to get low. So if you are considering it...make sure you get moving on contacting Blackstone. 

Craig

On Nov 8, 2019, at 6:22 AM, Robert Bell via Groups.Io <ionhoss@...> wrote:

Oh, that $29.95 included shipping!  

Rob

Re: BS K-27 motors?

Robert Bell
 

Oh, that $29.95 included shipping!  

Rob

Re: BS K-27 motors?

bassb04011
 

Thanks for the info everyone.
Brian 


On Nov 8, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Robert Bell via Groups.Io <ionhoss@...> wrote:

Brian,
The early "fix" for the motors was to give a shot of straight 12v to the motor.  I found this to be at best, a temporary solution.  Since I didn't have a layout for many years, it wasn't a problem.  But, when I started my layout two years ago, it was worse.  When, I disassembled the loco (again), and applied the 12v, the best the motor would do was maybe 1/2 speed with wisps of smoke rolling out.  So, I called Blackstone.

IF you have issues with the motor, contact Josh at BS.  For $29.95 (a year and a half ago) I got the replacement motor with the optical censor AND gear box assembled.  You will have to remove the boiler, and a couple of screws to replace the assembly.  Honestly, removing the boiler is the toughest part of the process.

Attached are pictures of the motor assembly.  Good luck!

Rob Bell
Modeling the WP&YR in
Waynesville, NC

<20180729_160627.jpg>

<20180729_160619.jpg>




<20180729_160627.jpg>
<20180729_160619.jpg>

Re: BS K-27 motors?

Robert Bell
 

Brian,
The early "fix" for the motors was to give a shot of straight 12v to the motor.  I found this to be at best, a temporary solution.  Since I didn't have a layout for many years, it wasn't a problem.  But, when I started my layout two years ago, it was worse.  When, I disassembled the loco (again), and applied the 12v, the best the motor would do was maybe 1/2 speed with wisps of smoke rolling out.  So, I called Blackstone.

IF you have issues with the motor, contact Josh at BS.  For $29.95 (a year and a half ago) I got the replacement motor with the optical censor AND gear box assembled.  You will have to remove the boiler, and a couple of screws to replace the assembly.  Honestly, removing the boiler is the toughest part of the process.

Attached are pictures of the motor assembly.  Good luck!

Rob Bell
Modeling the WP&YR in
Waynesville, NC






Re: BS K-27 motors?

Mark Kasprowicz
 

The K-27 motor sits tightly in a cradle. As well as a worm gear the shaft carries the chuff sync wheel. So it's not the easiest to find a replacement for. I managed to convert a Masima to fit only to be told by someone on this list that it was not powerful enough to be seriously considered. Mine still works.

Not all DCC K-27's were affected. There was at the time a method of burning out the oil by applying DC to the motor alone, by-passing the short circuit detection part of the decoder. It still applies. The outer two pins of the drawbar connector feed the motor and if you apply 12v DC down those pins the motor will splutter for a while and then start emiting a small could of burnt off oil. I assume the DC only versions could be fixed by running them flat out.

Blackstone were selling replacement motors for $25. Not sure whether they still have them. I've not tried taking the motor out and running it in a vise for a period of time and at various angles to coax the last of the oil out. 

Mark K

Re: Coupler thoughts

Mike Van Hove
 

I know, Chris. in fact, your articles in the Annuals are what got me to try them. 

I have since installed them on 198 HO Std Gage cars, and they worked quite well.

I’ve since sold the entire Colorado Midland std gage layout and all the rolling stock.

I’m now starting on an HOn3 D&RG Chili Line layout and all the cars i’ve built have Sergents.

I just had to rattle your cage a little.  🤪

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 7, 2019, at 1:34 PM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

I was looking for feedback between the Kadees. The Sergents are great and I know some folks love them (remember I had a long article on installing them in the 2011 HOn3 Annual). But they are a different animal and unlikely to be included with a RTR car.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 11:14 AM, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:

Just because Chris says don't say it, does not mean the rest of us don't want data.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 9:59 AM Mike Van Hove <vanhovem22@...> wrote:

Do NOT say Sergents.  ( I guess that leaves me out of the discussion.)  🤔


Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Nov 7, 2019, at 11:11 AM, claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:

Comrade Train Enthusiasts,

 

Now that the Kadee 705 have been out for awhile and we've had a chance to play with them, I have an informal polling question.

 

If someone were to offer a new ready-to-run car as we've seen from Blackstone or Micro-Trains, which coupler would you want it to come with: 714 or 705s?

 

Do NOT say Sergents.

 

Chris Lane





-- 
lloyd lehrer


Re: Coupler thoughts

hiroechan
 

Dusty,

I rather agree with you about a drop-in shank; personally I'd like to see short, medium, and long standard shanks (or even just shorter and longer). 

In the meantime though, I'm not letting that hold me up from improving the look of my fleet. On a whole train, the overall look is worth the effort, to my eye.

-Drew McCann


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 7:19 PM Dusty <dustburm@q.com> wrote:
No on the 705 with the current shank. Give me a 705 coupler to effortlessly retro fit most existing equipment before making the 705 the defacto std. 714s and 705s aren't ALWAYS the best coupling and uncoupling mates. Two 705s can be pretty tight for 'picking'.

The first '705' could/should have been a drop in for 714 compatible boxes. I just assembled a 714 and melt welded the split knuckle parts together. Guess what? They still pivot and center (oops, and bounce). So anyone with a Blackstone piece of equipment, a screw driver, a knife, one right thumb and one left thumb could improve the appearance of that engine or car with a drop in. Let's see? If half of the existing Blackstone cars got drop in 705s at $2.75+- a car how much $ is that? Plus the lost spring replacement revenue! 

Look at the HO 'scale' coupler model. Narrow box for scratch builder and such. But a #5 box compatible choice for existing applications. Why not Hon3.

Dusty Burman 

Re: Coupler thoughts

Dusty
 

No on the 705 with the current shank. Give me a 705 coupler to effortlessly retro fit most existing equipment before making the 705 the defacto std. 714s and 705s aren't ALWAYS the best coupling and uncoupling mates. Two 705s can be pretty tight for 'picking'.

The first '705' could/should have been a drop in for 714 compatible boxes. I just assembled a 714 and melt welded the split knuckle parts together. Guess what? They still pivot and center (oops, and bounce). So anyone with a Blackstone piece of equipment, a screw driver, a knife, one right thumb and one left thumb could improve the appearance of that engine or car with a drop in. Let's see? If half of the existing Blackstone cars got drop in 705s at $2.75+- a car how much $ is that? Plus the lost spring replacement revenue! 

Look at the HO 'scale' coupler model. Narrow box for scratch builder and such. But a #5 box compatible choice for existing applications. Why not Hon3.

Dusty Burman 

Re: Coupler thoughts

Mark Lewis
 

Chris:

My experience with 705's has been positive, although some installs need an unreasonable amount of tinkering to get them installed. The 705's couple/uncouple to 714's, to my satisfaction (I am a manual/"skewer" uncoupler user) and will couple to the Sergent equipped car I built, but uncoupling can be a challenge.

My vote to your question is...705's.

My hope is that Kadee takes the many concerns voiced by HOn3 modelers and offers a smaller draft gear box to contain a coupler shank that would swap into molded on Blackstone and Rail Line draft gear boxes, without surgery.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 4:39 PM claneon30 <chrislaneon30@...> wrote:
That was the thrust of my inquiry. Has the industry standard changed? And taking this a bit further, assuming Blackstone releases a new car (and I have no knowledge that that is the case) would they stick with the 714 as before?

The reason for my inquiry is that while I own a semi-stupid amount of HOn3, I am not currently actively modeling in the scale and wanted to get the thoughts of those who are. While I don’t know of anything specific, (so don’t get excited) I assume that at some point in the future, Blackstone, Micro-Trains (or whoever buys that tooling) or some new player in HOn3 is going to be asking themselves this question, and wanted to have an answer in my mind should I be asked.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:

Blackstone considered Sergents but realised #714's are regarded as industry standards and that was an insurrmountable barrier.

Mark K

Re: Coupler thoughts

claneon30
 

That was the thrust of my inquiry. Has the industry standard changed? And taking this a bit further, assuming Blackstone releases a new car (and I have no knowledge that that is the case) would they stick with the 714 as before?

The reason for my inquiry is that while I own a semi-stupid amount of HOn3, I am not currently actively modeling in the scale and wanted to get the thoughts of those who are. While I don’t know of anything specific, (so don’t get excited) I assume that at some point in the future, Blackstone, Micro-Trains (or whoever buys that tooling) or some new player in HOn3 is going to be asking themselves this question, and wanted to have an answer in my mind should I be asked.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:

Blackstone considered Sergents but realised #714's are regarded as industry standards and that was an insurrmountable barrier.

Mark K

Re: BS K-27 motors?

Mark Lewis
 

Brian:

The Blackstone K27's were released in 2006, 2010 and 2012 and only the 2006 release had an issue with over oiled motors, from the overseas manufacturer.

I owned a 2006 release #455/green boiler K27, that never exhibited any of the over oiling symptoms, while I owned operated it and I sold it about 2 years ago and the current owner has not had any issues with the motor, either.

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 3:57 PM bassb04011 <fishingmaine@...> wrote:
So do pretty much all 2006 run BS K-27s need to be remotored? I have one coming I think is 2007 but assume that’s still considered part of the 2006 run?
Is there a particular motor that is best for this model?
Thanks
Brian


For sale HOn3 Annuals

Doug Boudakian <dboudrrtrain@...>
 

HOn3 Annual 2009, 2010 and 2018. All lightly used but in very good condition. $35 for all including shipping in the USA. Send private reply if interested.

Doug Boudakian
@Durango

Re: Coupler thoughts

claneon30
 

Good one!

As Mark K pointed out, I doubt they would be considered by any manufacturer for the RTR market., which was my premise. Say thing in the O scale market, it would be either the Kadee 803 or the San Juan Evolution, even though there are other brands/sizes in use. 

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Jeff Young <jeff@...> wrote:

OK, if I can’t say “Sergents” then: “whichever is easiest to replace with a Sergent”. ;)



Re: BS K-27's for Sale

lloyd lehrer
 

Sorry Kevin, I thought I sent that to the group.
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 12:24 PM kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

hang on....

I was letting the person who posted they will have 6 locos for sale soon know that i was interested.
I am not the person with locos for sale.
Kevin,









Have they been remotored?


lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097




On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 1:17 AM kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:



P.S. - I will have 6 first run K-27's to sell soon. Let me know if you have any interest

i'm interested.

thanks.
Kevin.
arcatruck13@...

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer

BS K-27 motors?

bassb04011
 

So do pretty much all 2006 run BS K-27s need to be remotored? I have one coming I think is 2007 but assume that’s still considered part of the 2006 run?
Is there a particular motor that is best for this model?
Thanks
Brian

Re: BS K-27's for Sale

kevin b
 


hang on....

I was letting the person who posted they will have 6 locos for sale soon know that i was interested.
I am not the person with locos for sale.
Kevin,









Have they been remotored?


lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097




On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 1:17 AM kevin b via Groups.Io <arcatruck13@...> wrote:



P.S. - I will have 6 first run K-27's to sell soon. Let me know if you have any interest

i'm interested.

thanks.
Kevin.
arcatruck13@...

--
lloyd lehrer

Re: BS K-27's for Sale

Mark Kasprowicz
 

If they are second run they do not need remotoring. Only the first run has their motors over-oiled.

Mark K