Date   

Re: Modeling for 3D printing

Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...>
 

Here is what I know. 

FDM (filament) printers have a downward limit to how small of a thing they can print. Generally it is the inside diameter of the printer head where molten plastic comes out. The smallest inside bore of an extruder head I've seen is 1/10 of a mm (0.1mm) There is a whole gamut of items to take into consideration when printing at this small of a diameter. Like the temperature at the nozzle, printer axis speed, cooling time required for the type of plastic used. Everything I've read on line and seen on Youtube tells me that these are real bugaboos to dial in at high detail resolutions. FDM printers print in layers. So the second limitation to these printers is the minimum amount of printer thickness that they can produce. The thinner the print layer, the longer the print will take.

Since these machines print flat layers. You can not expect them to produce a dome or cone shape in something as small as an HO Scale rivet head. The absolute best you will get is a set of ever descending little plateaus of disks stacked on top of on another. You will be able to see this without too much magnification! Low cost FDM machines just can't produce ultra-fine resolution in a print.  

This brings us to SLA or Stereo Lithography liquid resin printers. These machines can do much finer details. But, other than the "Elegoo Mars " they are expensive!  The Formlabs "Form3" runs about $3500 and will print raised and recessed surface details down to 25 microns. There at 1000 microns in a millimeter! so that is pretty impressive. The SLA machines also print in layers. Most of them suggest that you tilt your model to help obscure the print layers. The Form3 would have no problems pulling off a dome shaped rivet head in HO Scale

I have an Elegoo Mars. I haven't had much time to learn all of its capabilities yet. (My day job has been keeping me to busy this year) But it is slightly better than the highest resolution low cost FDM printers out there. It will print down to 0.01mm in thickness.
The Elegoo Mars should be able to pull off a more convincing dome shaped rivet head than just about any low cost FDM printer out there. Their resin cost isn't too bad either.

Dale Buxton


On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 5:56 PM Russ Norris <rbnorrisjr@...> wrote:
Nice work Bruce.  I love the scale track.

Live and direct from the NNGC in Sacramento!

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019, 4:46 PM Bruce <in2trains@...> wrote:
I have a <$200 FDM printer.  I have had, IMO, some pretty good success printing HO scale items; scale house and tracks, throwbars, bridle straps for stub turnouts and a pretty nice switch stand.

The attached photo shows the switch stand before removing the "raft" used as part of the printing process.

However, it I wanted to add nut/bolt or rivet detail I would need to get a resin printer.  I have been looking at two specific printers, Epax X1 and Elegoo Mars, $400 and $350 respectively.  The Elegoo Mars has been on sale in July and August for $250.

I have held off so I could concentrate on getting my EBT v3.2 layout ready for track.  Can't do it all at the same time.

Bruce Bowie
Huron Ohio

--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Re: Modeling for 3D printing

Russ Norris
 

Nice work Bruce.  I love the scale track.

Live and direct from the NNGC in Sacramento!

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019, 4:46 PM Bruce <in2trains@...> wrote:
I have a <$200 FDM printer.  I have had, IMO, some pretty good success printing HO scale items; scale house and tracks, throwbars, bridle straps for stub turnouts and a pretty nice switch stand.

The attached photo shows the switch stand before removing the "raft" used as part of the printing process.

However, it I wanted to add nut/bolt or rivet detail I would need to get a resin printer.  I have been looking at two specific printers, Epax X1 and Elegoo Mars, $400 and $350 respectively.  The Elegoo Mars has been on sale in July and August for $250.

I have held off so I could concentrate on getting my EBT v3.2 layout ready for track.  Can't do it all at the same time.

Bruce Bowie
Huron Ohio


--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Re: Modeling for 3D printing

Bruce
 

I have a <$200 FDM printer.  I have had, IMO, some pretty good success printing HO scale items; scale house and tracks, throwbars, bridle straps for stub turnouts and a pretty nice switch stand.

The attached photo shows the switch stand before removing the "raft" used as part of the printing process.

However, it I wanted to add nut/bolt or rivet detail I would need to get a resin printer.  I have been looking at two specific printers, Epax X1 and Elegoo Mars, $400 and $350 respectively.  The Elegoo Mars has been on sale in July and August for $250.

I have held off so I could concentrate on getting my EBT v3.2 layout ready for track.  Can't do it all at the same time.

Bruce Bowie
Huron Ohio


Re: Modeling for 3D printing

rick@...
 

Bill,

Resin printers would have no problem with rivets. The filament printers can handle it if the rivets aren't too small. I can do tests if it helps.

Rick


Modeling for 3D printing

Bill Lugg
 

For those that have produced models for 3D printing, what are your thoughts regarding including rivets in the model vs. applying Archer or Micro Mark rivets after the fact?  If you're in favor of applying rivet detail to the model prior to printing, how do you approach it to minimize model size and maximize the quality of the appearance?

Thanks
Bill Lugg


Re: 2019 HOn3 Annual Pre-Printing Sale

Mike Van Hove
 

Thanks, Mark, that made ordering the Annual very easy.

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO

On Sep 2, 2019, at 3:32 PM, Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:

Attached is the just released link to the 2019 HOn3 Annual, pre-printing order form. At a reduced price and no shipping.
 Mark Lewis
narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

https://shop.whiteriverproductions.com/products/ho19?fbclid=IwAR1sIKq5dk1fQgF8BgBGk8FLC8NtSE6GQKq3O-7-QS8bi8MBtSaPz8kTmLI


2019 HOn3 Annual Pre-Printing Sale

Mark Lewis
 

Attached is the just released link to the 2019 HOn3 Annual, pre-printing order form. At a reduced price and no shipping.
 Mark Lewis
narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

https://shop.whiteriverproductions.com/products/ho19?fbclid=IwAR1sIKq5dk1fQgF8BgBGk8FLC8NtSE6GQKq3O-7-QS8bi8MBtSaPz8kTmLI


Re: Installing 705’s on loco pilots.

Ed Tibbetts
 

Started the last 2 705 pilot coupler installs today. I cut down the extended box on the pilot of my C19 and got a trimmed and drilled 705 pinned in. 
I started dis assembling my C25 for remotor, paint, and pilot coupler change.
It had a Kadee N scale coupler in a self centering box, but it stuck out too far. I have not decided how I will do this one. Guess that’s why it got saved for last.
I will add some pictures.


Re: D&RGW book blow out

claneon30
 

Softbound. For just $12, well worth adding to the collection. 

Had my copy for years.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Aug 30, 2019, at 7:52 AM, Doug Boudakian <dboudrrtrain@...> wrote:

Hardbound, softbound? How many books?
Doug


On Aug 30, 2019, at 6:03 AM, M2fq via Groups.Io <M2fq@...> wrote:

All

have some Robert McDonald In Quest of Colorado Narrow Gauge - first person account of several trips including the last San Juan.

All the photos - including color, taken by the author.

BLOW OUT

$5.00 per book

$7.00 Priority mail postage

www.paypal.com

Gary Kohler
330-719-0264
m2fq@...


Re: D&RGW book blow out

M2fq@...
 

at is possible he got around!



Gary Kohler
m2fq@...
330-719-0264

In a message dated 8/30/2019 10:08:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, rbnorrisjr@... writes:

I do believe Bob McDonald may have visited the East Broad Top many years ago. In the living room of Pogue Station -- a house that served as a flag stop for the EBT just south of Orbisonia and where EBT fans can stay for pennies -- there is a photo of McDonald commemorating a visit when he stayed at the station way back when.  I may have a photo of it.


Re: D&RGW book blow out

Russ Norris
 

I do believe Bob McDonald may have visited the East Broad Top many years ago. In the living room of Pogue Station -- a house that served as a flag stop for the EBT just south of Orbisonia and where EBT fans can stay for pennies -- there is a photo of McDonald commemorating a visit when he stayed at the station way back when.  I may have a photo of it.


On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 9:52 AM Doug Boudakian <dboudrrtrain@...> wrote:
Hardbound, softbound? How many books?
Doug


On Aug 30, 2019, at 6:03 AM, M2fq via Groups.Io <M2fq@...> wrote:

All

have some Robert McDonald In Quest of Colorado Narrow Gauge - first person account of several trips including the last San Juan.

All the photos - including color, taken by the author.

BLOW OUT

$5.00 per book

$7.00 Priority mail postage

www.paypal.com

Gary Kohler
330-719-0264
m2fq@...


--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Re: D&RGW book blow out

Doug Boudakian <dboudrrtrain@...>
 

Hardbound, softbound? How many books?
Doug


On Aug 30, 2019, at 6:03 AM, M2fq via Groups.Io <M2fq@...> wrote:

All

have some Robert McDonald In Quest of Colorado Narrow Gauge - first person account of several trips including the last San Juan.

All the photos - including color, taken by the author.

BLOW OUT

$5.00 per book

$7.00 Priority mail postage

www.paypal.com

Gary Kohler
330-719-0264
m2fq@...


D&RGW book blow out

M2fq@...
 

All

have some Robert McDonald In Quest of Colorado Narrow Gauge - first person account of several trips including the last San Juan.

All the photos - including color, taken by the author.

BLOW OUT

$5.00 per book

$7.00 Priority mail postage

www.paypal.com

Gary Kohler
330-719-0264
m2fq@...


Re: Drill bits for Grab Irons

Joseph Melhorn
 

Hi Pete,

Give me a day or three and I’ll snap some pics and upload them for you.

Thanks for the interest.

Joe Melhorn

Sahuarita, AZ

 


Re: D&RGW Book Recommendation?

ColoRyan
 

Thank you all for your suggestions. I guess I have my work cut out for me!


Re: Shinohara HOn3 turnouts

Paul Buhrke
 

email sent, thank you.
--
Paul Buhrke
Recreating the 14th. Subdivision
D&RGW Salida Division in 1929


Re: Drill bits for Grab Irons

Pete C
 

Joe
  Do you have any pictures of your setup.  Your details are great but a few pictures would help make it a bit clearer, at least for me.  😉

On Aug 29, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:

Joe:

Thanks for the tip and detailed info.

Mark Lewis
narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 12:38 PM Joseph Melhorn <toyman@...> wrote:

I realize I’m chiming in late (as usual) but another source is Drillman1 on eBay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/drillman1

 

I’ve purchased a lot of carbide drill bits, end mills and other various cutters from him over the years. I think his prices are reasonable for the products he offers. Service is excellent.

Many moons ago I shared on one of the lists a low speed alternative to using a Dremel tool to hand drill holes for grab irons using twist drills. It consisted of using a General Tools Miniature powered screwdriver (Lowes Item # 78618 - on sale now for $9.99 thru 11/01/2019), some hex wrench stock (4,0mm hex wrench) and a micro drill chuck with collet set and a couple of grub screws. Since I built mine, I’ve noticed that the brass micro chuck sets now range in size from 0,5mm to 3,0mm - .0196” to .118” (eBay# 192671709836). When I acquired mine they went from 0,0mm to 3,0mm. There is a universal 0,3mm to 3,5mm (.0118” to .1378”) adjustable micro chuck (eBay# 191949240231) that could be used, too. There is still a way to get to zero closing. It requires another mini mandrel with a 0 to 1,2mm (0 to .0472”) capacity (eBay# 200866133453). This mandrel has a 3/32” (2,381mm (.0937”)) shank. You would need to trim ~1” (25,4mm) off the shank to fit in the micro chuck collet. An added bonus of using the adjustable micro chuck instead of the chuck w/collet set is that it opens wide enough to accommodate the 1/8” (3,175mm) carbide PC Board drill bits.

Here’s the procedure: Use an abrasive cutoff disc and cut a piece of the hex wrench about 1-1 1/4" long. Measure across the "points" on the 4.0mm hex wrench. I measured a screwdriver bit from my Micro Screwdriver and it measures ~.175" Take the set screw out of the chuck and drill out the hole to ~.175". Closest is a #17 at .173 or a #16 at .177". If you have a lathe or access to a lathe it's pretty simple. It can be done on a drill press if you have a vise that you can clamp the chuck into. Once the hole is drilled if you used the #17 drill bit, line up a flat on the piece of hex wrench that you cut off and dressed, with the hole for the set screw and press the cut piece in until it is about 1/8"past the set screw hole. Run the set screw in and you're done. I've made several of these for myself and friends, under $20.00 for the whole thing. Yeah, I know it’s brass and will eventually wear out, but I'm betting you'll drill several tens of thousands of grab iron holes before that happens. They're so cheap that you should buy several and you can get at least three pieces out of the 4.0mm hex wrench. Make three or four of them and keep your most used bits chucked up and its quick to change bit sizes for that project you're working on. I made six up for my workbench.

Joe Melhorn

Sahuarita, AZ

 


Re: D&RGW Book Recommendation?

claneon30
 

Second this. Most complete and accessible for research.

Chris Lane - Editor HOn3 Annual



On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:51 AM, Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:

I find my copy of Sundance Books "Rio Grande - to the Pacific", my "go to" book when I need information.  It gives a year by year synopsis of corporate history, lines constructed, lines abandoned, locomotives acquired, etc.


Re: D&RGW Book Recommendation?

Earl Knoob
 

I find my copy of Sundance Books "Rio Grande - to the Pacific", my "go to" book when I need information.  It gives a year by year synopsis of corporate history, lines constructed, lines abandoned, locomotives acquired, etc.


Re: Drill bits for Grab Irons

Mark Lewis
 

Joe:

Thanks for the tip and detailed info.

Mark Lewis
narrow gauge modeling in N.C.

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 12:38 PM Joseph Melhorn <toyman@...> wrote:

I realize I’m chiming in late (as usual) but another source is Drillman1 on eBay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/drillman1

 

I’ve purchased a lot of carbide drill bits, end mills and other various cutters from him over the years. I think his prices are reasonable for the products he offers. Service is excellent.

Many moons ago I shared on one of the lists a low speed alternative to using a Dremel tool to hand drill holes for grab irons using twist drills. It consisted of using a General Tools Miniature powered screwdriver (Lowes Item # 78618 - on sale now for $9.99 thru 11/01/2019), some hex wrench stock (4,0mm hex wrench) and a micro drill chuck with collet set and a couple of grub screws. Since I built mine, I’ve noticed that the brass micro chuck sets now range in size from 0,5mm to 3,0mm - .0196” to .118” (eBay# 192671709836). When I acquired mine they went from 0,0mm to 3,0mm. There is a universal 0,3mm to 3,5mm (.0118” to .1378”) adjustable micro chuck (eBay# 191949240231) that could be used, too. There is still a way to get to zero closing. It requires another mini mandrel with a 0 to 1,2mm (0 to .0472”) capacity (eBay# 200866133453). This mandrel has a 3/32” (2,381mm (.0937”)) shank. You would need to trim ~1” (25,4mm) off the shank to fit in the micro chuck collet. An added bonus of using the adjustable micro chuck instead of the chuck w/collet set is that it opens wide enough to accommodate the 1/8” (3,175mm) carbide PC Board drill bits.

Here’s the procedure: Use an abrasive cutoff disc and cut a piece of the hex wrench about 1-1 1/4" long. Measure across the "points" on the 4.0mm hex wrench. I measured a screwdriver bit from my Micro Screwdriver and it measures ~.175" Take the set screw out of the chuck and drill out the hole to ~.175". Closest is a #17 at .173 or a #16 at .177". If you have a lathe or access to a lathe it's pretty simple. It can be done on a drill press if you have a vise that you can clamp the chuck into. Once the hole is drilled if you used the #17 drill bit, line up a flat on the piece of hex wrench that you cut off and dressed, with the hole for the set screw and press the cut piece in until it is about 1/8"past the set screw hole. Run the set screw in and you're done. I've made several of these for myself and friends, under $20.00 for the whole thing. Yeah, I know it’s brass and will eventually wear out, but I'm betting you'll drill several tens of thousands of grab iron holes before that happens. They're so cheap that you should buy several and you can get at least three pieces out of the 4.0mm hex wrench. Make three or four of them and keep your most used bits chucked up and its quick to change bit sizes for that project you're working on. I made six up for my workbench.

Joe Melhorn

Sahuarita, AZ

 

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