Date   
Re: K-36 and K-37

Doug Cummings
 

K37's are rebuilds of s.g. locos and look quite different. 



Folks, 

Can you tell the difference between a K-36 and a K-37 if all you can see is the boiler and domes?

Thanks, Dave
_._,_._,_


Re: K-36 and K-37

Lee Gustafson
 

Dave,

The K-37's, I believe if my memory is correct, were built with boilers from standard gauge C-41 2-8-0's which accounts for the style of dome covers. The K-36's were built by Baldwin as narrow gauge locomotives which explains their dome covers. I encourage others to correct me if my memory is incorrect or additional information is available.

Lee Gustafson


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Cummings <dougcummings@...>
To: HOn3 <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Sat, May 18, 2019 9:42 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

K37's are rebuilds of s.g. locos and look quite different. 



Folks, 

Can you tell the difference between a K-36 and a K-37 if all you can see is the boiler and domes?

Thanks, Dave

Re: Abteilung weathering.

jczul36
 

Mark/Dale, Com’n you two!  You know me and even have my email.  I highly respect both of you and you could have contacted me direct.

Dale, I’m not sure what person from the Guild provided you info, but I can assure you no one asked.  When I’m asked, I normally divulge the information.

This “trade secrets” issue begins when I mentioned words like “barrier’s” and “washes”.  Most who never paint, seem to glare as if I were speaking to them in another language. I can assure you, no “trade secrets” here.  I’ve addressed this multiple times, but when I see them glaring, I advise them to read military modelers magazines on weathering so they can understand the lingo and concept.  We hoped the video from brass trains would help, but I guess it wasn’t enough.

As in military weathering, Jerry and I, both use barriers between multiple weathering stages.  Our barrier is the automotive lacquer (The reason for the lacquer base clear, is because it holds up to solvent washes and is not disturbed by the weaker thinner from the wash).  We use it to protect the earlier weathering and produce a gradual buildup.  However the barrier brand is irrelevant.  I use DuPont and Jerry uses PPG.  I will move to a new brand when my DuPont runs out.  

For the wash, We both use scalecoat 1 thinner for thinning oils or enamels.  We both used dio-sol thinner, but when it was no longer commercially available, we moved to scalecoat. Should scalecoat end, we’ll will find a different solvent to supplement it. The key to the solvent wash; it needs to evaporates quickly, not disturb the barrier, and thin our weathering colors.

The big difference between Jerry and I; I use testors enamel paints, and Jerry uses Abteilung oils for weathering colors. I’ve used the oils also, but prefer the enamels because they are available at any local hobby store.  We both used Dio-Sol, but when that ran out we substituted it with scalecoat.

Keep in mind, Any strong barrier and quick evaporating wash will provide the tools needed to weather.  This really is no trade secret, and very popular with the military modeling world.  Hope this helps.

Warm Regards,

jc





On May 18, 2019, at 3:29 AM, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

Mark,

Yes, I was told by JC that Jerry is using Scalecoat 1. It is produced by Minute Man Hobbies now. 

Ahhhh so! Celulose Thinners. Now this is starting to make sense to me. MIG products sells two thinners in the celulose formulation. "Regular Celulose" and "Very Hot Thinner". In the USA Hot, Very Hot and Extremely Hot were/are terms to describe the evaporation or drying time of automotive lacquer thinners.

So, I have a friend in CA. that is a member of the Slim Gauge Guild and he knows JC (rather reluctantly I might add). He has asked JC for me about the details of Jerry's weathering process (types of lacquers and thinners etc.). But, JC would not commit to specifics. Like it's some sort of trade secret or something. The Brass Trains video was lacking in these specific details too. This is very strange for a how-to vid if you ask me. Anyway, I commented to the YouTube video on the process that it did not explain what clear lacquer and thinner Jerry was using. JC responded with any brand of Automotive clear lacquer. But they were using Dupont's brand. I told him I knew what is was and that I also knew that it was not made in the US anymore. Then he responded with back with Scalecoat 1 Clear. To be honest I'm have no Idea if that is true or not. 

I have about a quarter pint of Automotive Lacquer Clear left from my custom painting days many years ago. I'll need to find a new source for it for this weathering process if I end up liking it. I hava a gallon or two of the thinners left. I've always liked how this clear goes on with an airbrush. It sets down very smooth when it dries. I recently got some of PBL's Star Brand clear lacquer. So I'm going to give that a whirl with this process first.

About your thinners for the Abteilung Oils. Like I said  before, the Abteilung thinner is a odorless turpinoid thinner.  Go to the art store and get some Winsore/Newton Sansodor thinner. It comes in up to 2.5 L tins. I can get  odorless turpinoid at my local art supply. But, Home Depot has the same product for a better price.


Dale 

On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 12:15 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
Dale,

Thanks for the reply. The problem I have is figuring what 'Scalecoat 1' is - that's the stuff Jerry was using. I've started using the wash/ clear laquer method but using acrylics like the cheap ones from Walmart though a few dealers in this country chrage about $9.00 for a 99 cent pot! I might bring some back with me to sell on Ebay. I'm in the process of converting a couple of Downtown Deco hydrocal two engine shed into the Rico engine house ie shortening the distance between the piers from three to two windows and so on and the Acrylic/ laquer technique is just perfact but I've not tried oils.

I don't have a problem with laquer thinner which is called celulose thinners here. They send it by courier and I have a gallon of it in the garage. I also use it for paint stripping and it's available in my local True Value in Hermosa as well. So no problem there. My thoughts about thinners has gone onto Ronsonol or lighter fluid and I might give that a try.

Yes you're right a lot of those paint products come from Spain. I placed an order with Abteilung on Thursday including their fast drying thinners. It will be here on Monday. As Jerry said in the video it comes in quite a small bottle so the plan is to find something similar that can be bought more economically.

Military modeling mags are the only mags I get these days except for the Gazette and Narrow Gauge World. The processes and finishes those guys come up with are extraordinary. For anyone reading this that hasn't had a look at the internet or magazines, take a gander and don't worry about what they're making but how they're making it. You might be pleasantly surprised!

Mark K
Oxon, England

Re: KCNG 2019 Annual Meet Reminder

Larry Alfred
 

 

This is a reminder for the KCNG meet on June 8.  If you put this on the “back burner,” it’s time to get it out and register. Hope to see you there.  Thanks.

 

Apologies for any duplicate notices!

 

16th Annual KCNG Narrow Gauge Meet

 

 

An invitation to all Narrow Gaugers (and all other model railroaders, too!),

 

The Kansas City Area Narrow Gaugers (KCNG) will host their 16th Annual Narrow Gauge Meet on Saturday, June 8, 2019

 

The meet will be held at a different location than last year, but at a location we have met at before. The meet will be held at the Antioch Branch of the Johnson County Library at 8700 Shawnee Mission Parkway, Merriam, Kansas.  To get there, take the Shawnee Mission Parkway (63rd St.)exit east from I-35 to Antioch (about ¼ mile), turn left on Antioch, and then turn left again into the library.  This is a different location than that held last year.  However, we are now back to the location that we have used for many previous years.

 

The fun will begin at 9:00am with registration and socializing.  We will have clinics in the morning.  A lunch will be provided near noon.  A Show-and-Tell session will be held after lunch.  Please bring something to display and share with the group.  We will then have model railroad layouts available to visit during the afternoon.  Meet/Layout Tour activities will wind down at about 5:00 pm.

 

Planned layouts will include:

    • Gary Davidson: On3 D&RGW
    • Peter Ellis: Sn3 RGS
    • John Vandenberg: HOn3 D&RGW

 

Planned clinics will be presented by:

  • Ryan Moats
  • Pete Smith
  • Jeff Boock

 

Cost: $10.00 (includes morning donuts/coffee and lunch).

 

Advance registrations are required by June 4, 2019, so that we can plan for lunch.  Mail registration with your check to:

 

Larry Alfred

14633 S. Chalet Drive

Olathe, KS  66062

Make checks payable to Larry Alfred

 

For any of you coming in from out of town on Friday night, please consider joining us for barbeque at Jack Stack restaurant.  Contact me for details.

 

It should be a great day to share narrow gauge modeling and conversation.  You are all invited to participate!!  Email me off line (captlalfred@...) if you have questions.  Hope to see you on June 8.

 

 

 

Re: Couplers - Prototype

roundbell@...
 

When I was Master Mexhanic in the amusement park business (Opryland) one of my railfan engineers was Wilbur Golson. He told the story of visiting (I believe) the T R Miller Lumber Mill in the south and getting to run their Baldwin 2-4-2T yard switcher. He was pulling up to a car and when he hit it the coupler pin didn't drop. The car without any air started  rolling through town. They started chasing it for over two miles to the mainline connection blowing the whistle as the car ahead of them approached every street crossing  They finally coupled up at the G M & O yard which was slightly up hill. They got down and thanked their lucky stars. Wayne Weiss


-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Knoob <earlk489@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2019 11:15 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Couplers

In my 41 years of railroading, I NEVER shoved a car to a spot with the knuckles butted closed.  Very dangerous.  When the engine stops, the car will keep rolling.  Most yards have some sort of grade to them, so the car can easily roll off.  You shove to a spot with the couplers locked.  When you get the car spotted, set out or whatever, you chock the wheels and/or tie down the handbrake, pull the pin if the slack in in, and pull away.  You always leave angle cocks open on cars left on a siding.  If you close the angle cocks, it is possible for the air in the car reservoirs to leak into the brake pipe and release the brakes.  that is known as "bottling the air".

"Safety stops" are a modern day invention in railroading.  Old timers didn't do that either.

BTW, 714's were a godsend to us in the late 1960's.  Until then we had to use #5's on our narrow gauge equipment.

Earl Knoob
 An "HOn3-er" since 1968.



From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 1:30 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Couplers
 
That is exactly what is being said. Personally I like and prefer operating my coupling and uncoupling operations  manually like the prototype, I get a part of the feel of what it is like to operate the prototype. Sergent  couplers give me that real operation feeling like Kadee 714's never ever could.

Ok, I'm going to incur the wrath of some people here. Be that as it may. But, it's like this. Kadee 714 and 715 couplers became the defacto couplers of HOn3 for decades because no other company came up with a usable operating coupler of the appropriate size for HOn3. End of statement full stop. The 714 design has design limitations due to compromises that needed to be made by size they needed to be and the actual thought processes of the designers. One of these  compromises  was the complete elimination of a pivoting coupler knuckle. At the time Kadee 714's were developed, the first really working coupler to the market was going to be accepted as the go to product of use and 714's were just that. Personally, I felt for many, many, many years that a lot of this acceptance was based merely on the overwhelming success of Kadee's #5 couplers and not much else. The #5's were the best couplers on the market and since then every other coupler on the market has been based on them.

But the 714 design had and still has its operational detractors. They have  fair amount of vertical play in their coupler box. this allows them to dip down or climb up on the coupler they are mated too. This also plays into the slinky action in the draft gear spring. It also can allow the magnetic trip horn/pin, which if it is not adjusted to absolutely perfect vertical height, to drop down and snag on uncoupling magnets, turnouts, RR crossing boards and pretty much anything else that is mounted between the rails. So a lot of modelers started to just snip the trip pins off and use uncoupling wands instead. This completely negated the whole delayed action concept that was and still is at the center of Kadee coupler designs. Uncoupling with a wand mostly entails  pushing a pointed stick between the 714 couplers, twisting it and then pushing the freed car away some with the stick. HOW REALISTIC! 

 I think that removing the 714 trip pins and the delayed action they gave, brought about a whole era of unrealistic, lazy, sloppy, pseudo coupling and uncoupling operations.  On the prototype there is far more to coupling cars together than just backing up, mating and pulling away. WAY MORE!!! The full size railroads use a pretty much set system of coupling and uncoupling trains or spotting cars. For the most part it works like this.

BREAKING TRAINS and SPOTTING CARS:

In prototype car spotting operations. You will have a switchman/brakeman on the ground. He usually starts out at the locomotive or at turnout to a siding that they want to spot a car at. The train makes a safety stop at 50' or more before turnouts and stationary cars. The switchman throws the turnout and signals the engineer to pull into the siding. The car is pushed forwards past the turnout. Now because automatic couplers will only un-couple while not under tension. For expedience (because it is easier to spot cars EXACTLY where you want them this way), train crews will pull the cut lever on one of the cars. Which releases the knuckle pin and un-couples the car from the train. The switchman gives the signal that the coupling has been broken. The engineer pulls the locomotive/train back a little. If the break does not happen, the engineer moves the train forward and takes the slack out of the coupler knuckle faces again and the switchman tries to pull the coupler pin again. Once the break is made and the engineer has pulled the open couplers a way from each other and stops. The trainman gets permission to get between the cars and closes the knuckles on both opposing couplers. He gets back out and signals the engineer to move forward. The car will now be pushed (closed knuckle to closed knuckle) to its final position. The hand brakes will be set, The angle cocks will be closed and the train line (on K-brake systems) will be bled. The train and crew then moves on to the next car set-out or whatever. 

The biggest reason for closing the knuckles to push the car gets back to the Link and Pin coupler days. The number one most dangerous place to be on the railroads is in between the cars during coupling and un-coupling. Putting automatic couplers on cars with the cut levers to operate them extending to the outside edge of the cars, which put the trainmen out of the danger zone when the pin was pulled. These improvements to car spotting started saving lives and limbs almost immediately. So that is the primary train movement process for car spotting. But, 100% of the time you must have slack in between the coupler knuckle faces for the couplers to part when the pin is pulled. 

JOINING CARS and TRAINS:

So now we need to pick up that car. Once again the train and locomotive move to the turnout. The safety stop is made. The switchman gets off of the train. He throws the turnout and signals the engineer into the spur. They make another safety stop. Now the switchman gets permission to get in front of the coupler and makes sure that the coupler that they are going to use to make the "Joint" is open and aligned. (Remember! On most steam locomotives, the front coupler is merely pined into the coupler pocket on the locomotives pilot beam. So it has the ability to flop around from side to side and get out of alignment. Couplers o freight cars do it too!) The switchman signals the engineer to pull up to the car and make the "Joint". Once the "Joint" is made, the switchman signals the engineer to back up and take the slack out of the knuckle faces. This is called making a "Stretch". If the "Stretch" is successful, the newly coupled onto car will come with them and the slack will be taken out of the knuckle faces. If not the "Joint: and "Stretch" moves must be repeated until the proper "Joint" is made. Once a "Stretch" is successful, the switchman signals the engineer to move up and remove the slack from the knuckle faces. That completed, the switchman signals for permission to go between the cars where he kneels and connects the "Glad Hands" of the air hoses to the trainline, opens the angle cocks to the hoses and releases the manual brakes. Now they can pull out of the siding.

MODELING SWITCHING MOVES:

Now where model trains don't need a good deal of these steps. In most cases you don't see modelers doing even half of what they should be doing as simple good practices. At the very least they should be doing "Safety Stops", "Closed Knuckle Spotting" and making "Stretches" to make sure the "Joints" are made.

You can go on line and find videos of coupling and uncoupling operations on the full size RR's. The main elements of these operations are all pretty much the same everywhere  automatic knuckle couplers are used .

So I guess it comes down to something like this. If we are only willing to buy model trains with the highest detail fidelity. Why should we not endeavor to operate our highly detail miniature trains in manor as near as possible to the way that the full size RR's do?

Dale Buxton


On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:12 PM <arfio@...> wrote:
Why do you say they are no good for operations?  Because the require manual uncoupling like the prototype?

Allen Farnsworth

On May 15, 2019, at 9:08 PM, Ray <rayhon3@...> wrote:

I suggest Kadee 158 couplers.  Same size as the 714 but have whisker spring. So no assembly required. Operation is the same.
The Sergeants aren't any good for operation.
Ray




On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 3:04 PM -0600, "John Stutz" <john.stutz@...> wrote:

Doug

Kadee 714  scissors  couplers (and the brown version 715? ) are the 
defacto standard for HOn3.  They are somewhat oversize for the full size 
MCB couplers used on the Colorado NG roads.  Since the centering spring 
compresses under draft, they can a bit stiff to couple, and trailing 
cars to tend to display a slinky action as they are pulled by partially 
compressed springs.  These are probably your best choice for remote 
operation with magnetic uncoupling, as they have the greatest gathering 
range and a longer uncoupling lever.  Kadee  also offers these as their 
"Old Time" coupler with a longer uncoupling lever for SG cars, but they 
may tend to pull apart with the longer and heaver HO SG trains.

Microtrains 1015 and 1016 are their second generation N scale scissors 
coupler, replacing their original designs which are downsized Kadee 
714s. These are about HO scale MCB coupler size, visually similar to 
714s, but the centering spring has been reversed to compress when 
buffing.  This has the advantage that the couplers yield slightly  when 
nudged together, making it much more likely the the standing car will 
couple instead of being pushed down the track.  The 714's slinky action 
at the train's tail is eliminated, but reappears in the leading cars of 
a string that is being pushed.  Being smaller than the 714, good 
alignment of the cars is more critical when coupling.  The coupler 
knuckle is molded with negative draft angle on the pulling face, so they 
are relatively immune to pulling apart by sliding vertically.

Both the Kadee and Microtrains scissors couplers can opened manually, 
using a finely pointed dowel inserted behind the knuckles and spun.   
The two are not really mutually compatible, due to the size difference, 
but can be manually coupled.

Sergent makes dead scale HO couplers in zinc, as both the Sharon pattern 
of MCB profile coupler used on many D&RGW NG cars, and the slightly 
deeper ARA type D coupler.  Both were once widely used on SG freight 
stock.  These are mutually compatible, and some report they can be used 
with 714s.   The ARA Ds have the #10 profile designed to prevent paired 
couplers from jackknifing when pushing a string of cars, but this does 
not seem to be problem with the Sharons on our short NG trains.  Sergent 
couplers all employ an internal steel ball to lock the knuckle closed by 
gravity, and Sergent provides a magnetic rod to unlock and open the 
coupler knuckles.  They are not intended for remote operation, but might 
be used in a delayed manor, as Kadee's MKDs designed to do.  The Sergent 
couplers are a solid pivot design, so there is no slinky action.  There 
is no centering action as supplied.  Instead they have a friction spring 
to hold the coupler fixed when not coupled, allowing manual alignment 
for coupling.  Which is important, given the scale coupler's scale 
gathering range. Sergent has a version of the ARA D that is designed for 
drop-in application in the common SG coupler pocket, or in  Kadee #5 
boxes, but the preferred mounting is the narrower Acucraft box. There is 
a version of the Sharron designed specifically for Blackstone HOn3 
cars.  An a minimal mount can be made with a #2 screw and washer.

Kadee also offers a couple versions of "scale" HO couplers with fixed 
pivots and their standard style knuckle.  These are intended for SG 
models, and are probably compatible with their 714s, but I have not 
experimented on this.   Acucraft offers a "scale" version of their fixed 
pivot Acumate scissors coupler, but I have not tried to use these.  I 
suspect that there are others

John Stutz

On 5/15/2019 8:37 AM, Doug Cummings wrote:
> I have a fair number of both HO and HOn3 cars and locomotives, all currently in their original packaging. I am looking for recommendations for what make and model of couplers are recommended or work best for this equipment. Recommendations or comments are welcomed.

Doug




Re: Abteilung weathering.

Mark Kasprowicz
 

JC,

I do have your Email address but you're a television star now and I wondered..... Heck, I'm sorry mate, I never thought to get in touch direct, I will next time. I have a couple of questions for you but the main drive of my quest was to find an equivlalent of Scalecoat 1 in this country which I think I might have. It's called Sansodor and made by Windsor and Newton. It's called a low odour solvent.

The Automotive clear lacquer that you use, is it cellulose based or an Acrylic, because the only clear automotive lacquers that I've found are Acrylic? Will that work?  If you're using Testors enamels why do you need a barrier coat? My understanding about oils is that if you brush on thinners the paint softens to the point where it can be removed which doesn't happen with enamels because once dry they're 'locked'. So the clear coat locks that wash down. Or am I missing something here? (Probably am!).

I think the video certainly sparked an interest but didn't provide all the answers. As for the military mags, I agree but I have yet to find one which banners "NEWBIE SPECIAL" on the cover. It was from one of these that I discovered Abteilung paint as a means of good wood representation.

Glad to see you're still on the list - we've lost a few good'uns since moving from Yahoo. Lets hope they find us again. And of course there are those who have handed in their dinner plates.

Mark K
Oxon England.

Re: Abteilung weathering.

jczul36
 

Mark, Yes, I’m still here.  I’m not as active in contributing as before, but there are subjects of interest which catch my eye.

To build up gradual weathering, a barrier is needed to seal and protect one weathering stage, from the next.  A Barrier’s is applied after each stage of wash.  

I use model master paints because they thin with scalecoat, but are not strong enough to attack my barrier.  As any paint, they dilute to a fine wash and can be steered to create lines, spots, stains, or build up of grime.  Oils work exactly the same.  Obviously with oils, the higher quality the paint, the better the wash.  

Regarding the lacquer.  I believe mine is an acrylic lacquer.  At least that’s what the thinner states.  However I’m not sure if my clear is acrylic or not.  No label on the can.  

The best way to find out if it will work is to paint a sheet of brass with a primary paint ( the paint you will use to paint your model).  After it’s dry, spray it with the clear you wish to use as a barrier.  If the clear does not craze the primary paint (the engine or rolling stock color), proceed to the next step.  If it does, you may have to find a stronger primary paint.... more on this later

If your barrier did not craze primary paint; proceed to spraying a dirty wash (diluted earth colors on the test piece).  Then apply a wet brush of scale coat and begin to clean off the dirty wash.  As you attempt to wash off the spray paint.  If the clear begins to lift or craze as you brush the dirty wash, then your clear is not strong enough and must find a substitute.  

Even though I use the thinner for washes, Scalecoat is not a good primary paint.  In my experience the clear does not adhere to it’s surface, and it just peels away like a decal.  PBL is one of my primary colors and so is true color.  My clear does not attack/craze the paint.

Hope this helps.
jc







On May 19, 2019, at 7:37 AM, Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:

JC,

I do have your Email address but you're a television star now and I wondered..... Heck, I'm sorry mate, I never thought to get in touch direct, I will next time. I have a couple of questions for you but the main drive of my quest was to find an equivlalent of Scalecoat 1 in this country which I think I might have. It's called Sansodor and made by Windsor and Newton. It's called a low odour solvent.

The Automotive clear lacquer that you use, is it cellulose based or an Acrylic, because the only clear automotive lacquers that I've found are Acrylic? Will that work?  If you're using Testors enamels why do you need a barrier coat? My understanding about oils is that if you brush on thinners the paint softens to the point where it can be removed which doesn't happen with enamels because once dry they're 'locked'. So the clear coat locks that wash down. Or am I missing something here? (Probably am!).

I think the video certainly sparked an interest but didn't provide all the answers. As for the military mags, I agree but I have yet to find one which banners "NEWBIE SPECIAL" on the cover. It was from one of these that I discovered Abteilung paint as a means of good wood representation.

Glad to see you're still on the list - we've lost a few good'uns since moving from Yahoo. Lets hope they find us again. And of course there are those who have handed in their dinner plates.

Mark K
Oxon England.

RGS blog updates - 3 no less...

Steven Haworth
 

Lots of blog updates, finally - it's been quite a while. Lots of photos inside the blog posts.

RGS Ridgway depot build, updates, structure lighting - https://rgsrr.blogspot.com/2019/05/ridgway-depot-construction-begins.html

Layout improvements, including new flooring and a phone system - https://rgsrr.blogspot.com/2019/05/layout-improvements-flooring-and-phon...

Layout improvements, trying some theatrical-style lighting, and op session photos - https://rgsrr.blogspot.com/2019/05/layout-night-lighting-and-op-sessions...


- Steve Haworth
RGS history - http://www.rgsrr.info/
Blog - http://rgsrr.blogspot.com/               FB - https://www.facebook.com/stevesrgs/

Re: Abteilung weathering.

Jim Spencer
 

I’m a member of the Slim Gauge Guild and am curious as to who among the members “reluctantly” knows Juan Carlos. It is hard for me to imagine anyone who would not like and appreciate him. He is a great guy and will probably carry on the tradition of Jerry Spoelma’s techniques when he eventually retires.  
BTW, Jerry is a graduate of Art Center College of Design and would have learned many of his techniques from his education there. He also has a large archive of photos from which he researches the exact appearance of most locos and cars he paints and weathers.
Juan of course has learned the craft from Jerry and to his own credit is a superb modeler in brass, doing incredible custom work. I am blessed to call him a friend.
jim

Re: K-36 and K-37

Ray
 

I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.
Ray

Re: K-36 and K-37

Earl Knoob
 

Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Ray <rayhon3@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 11:39 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.
Ray

Re: K-36 and K-37

Mike Conder
 

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?

Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Ray <rayhon3@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 11:39 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.
Ray

Re: K-36 and K-37

Doug Cummings
 

Examples of the D&RGW K-36 and K-37 both exist today. . The K37's are converted standard gauge locomotives.

DEC


From: "Mike Conder" <vulturenest1@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:06:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?
Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.




 

Re: K-36 and K-37

Earl Knoob
 

The simple mechanics of placing the frames outside of the drive wheels makes the engine wider, allowing the larger boiler to set lower in the frame and be more stable.  The distance across the tops of the outside edges of the  frames on an outside frame 3' gauge locomotive is around  59".  By the time you add the driving boxes and counterwieghts and/or cranks to the end of the axles you are wider than a similar sized standard gauge locomotive.  A standard gauge engine is around 48" across the tops of the frames.

Makes no difference if it is a 2-8-0 or a 2-8-2,  an outside frame 3' gauge engine is wider than a comparable standard gauge machine.  


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Doug Cummings <dougcummings@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 6:13 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
 
Examples of the D&RGW K-36 and K-37 both exist today. . The K37's are converted standard gauge locomotives.

DEC


From: "Mike Conder" <vulturenest1@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:06:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?
Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.




 

Re: Abteilung weathering.

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Hugely thanks JC. I'm quite OK with washes but on Hyrocal or plaster using water based acrylics but never tried the concept of 'barrier' coats which make perfect sense. That same concept will make things like pointing brickwork (do you call it that in the US, the cement between the bricks) so much easier using a oil wash and capiliary action over a barrier coat.

I'll experiment as you suggest and hopefully will come up with the right materials (and technique) in the not too distant future.

Thanks again,

Mark K
Oxon England.

Re: K-36 and K-37

Mark Kasprowicz
 
Edited

That would be a standard gauge INSIDE frame locomotive, surely! There are other differences between the two. K-37's have the whistle and safety valve mounted behind the steam dome, the 36's have them on the steam dome. Another clue is that most 36's have number boards either side of the stach as well as flanking the headlight, 378's only had them either side of the stack but not all 36 were like that.

Mark K
Oxon England.

NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

David Keith
 

I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large "pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did.  I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Brian Kopp
 

The March/April 2017 Gazette has an article on this very topic. Craig Symington is the author.
He tried a 25x12 motor but it was not strong enough. He then went with a Faulhaber 1319 but noted the high cost.
For gearing he used a NWSL 140-6 (281) but noted it was a little big and he had to remove some frame material.
This is a brass bashing article and he does a nice job of detailing the interior and exterior, including adding a backhead to hide the new smaller motor.
Lots of part numbers given. A real nice step by step article.
Brian

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Bill Lugg
 

A couple of general thoughts...

First, I sent an order to NWSL back on 15 April for parts for a remotor
project and have yet to hear anything from them beyond a confirmation of
my order, so my guess is they are swamped with orders right now and may
be right up to the end.  If you order something, expect it to take a while.

Second, I just joined the RepowerAndRegear group and posted a question
about repowering a Westside loco (SG).  Several folks recommended the
Minebea 12 VDC 6500rpm 6-pole motors (use "Minebea DC 12V 6500RPM DC
Motor 6-Pole Rotor Large Torque Mini 15MM Square motor" to search on
eBay).  They run about $2 a piece and the folks on that list claim to
have had good luck with them.  FWIW, there is a thread covering BEMF
with these motors and DCC decoders that includes a post from Craig
Symington.  I figured for the price, it's worth a try.  Also, they are
recommending Hobbytown of Boston as a source for universal joints.

HTH
Bill Lugg


**

On 5/17/19 9:04 AM, David Keith wrote:
I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large
"pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did. 
I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd
like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available
when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH

Re: NJ Custom Brass C21 Remotor?

Bruce Dunlevy
 

Locodoc.com

Bruce Dunlevy


On May 17, 2019, at 11:04 AM, David Keith <dckeith14@...> wrote:

I have what I think is a C-21 by NJ Custom Brass.  It has a large "pittman-like" motor.  I do not have the original box.  I never did.  I have a note, that it might be a balboa?

Has anyone remotored and regeared the NJ C-21?  With NWSL closing, I'd like to get fresh gears and motor now as they might not be available when I start the project.

Dave K.

Thanks,

David Keith
Cincinnati, OH