Date   

Re: Couplers

Mike Conder
 

Stupid autocorrect.  Why did it change words when you got "Send?"

Anyway, the link is obviously to Dale's COUPLER boxes ...

Mike Conder

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 11:17 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Here is a link to Dale's Corey boxes:


Mike Conder

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 7:45 PM John Stutz via Groups.Io <john.c.stutz=nasa.gov@groups.io> wrote:
I have previously advocated using the so called "N-scale" couplers made by
MicroTrains(MT) for HOn3.  When compared to a Sargent "Sharon" they are vary
near the right size for a circa 1900 full size MCB coupler, as used by the
Colorado NG roads.  They are still oversize for the 3/4 size MCBs that were
mostly used on the 3' gauge elsewhere.

You are correct that MT couplers "... still are a split coupler.", but there are
two distinct types of MT split couplers.  The MT 1024 & 1025 are downsized
versions of the Kadee 714, and suffer the same problems.  I have scrapped all
that I once had.

The MT 1015, 1016, & 1019 reverse the 714's spring arrangement, placing the
spring outboard of the pivot instead of inboard of it.  This eliminates the
objectionable spring action that occurs while pulling cars equipped with 714s,
although you then get spring action while pushing cars.  The big advantage of
the MT 1015 & etc. is how the spring placement affects coupling to a car.  With
the original style split couplers, the moment that two couplers touch the
coupling force is applied to the standing car.  If the couplers do not
immediately open, you are pushing the car down the siding.  With the revised
style split couplers, the centering springs must close before significant force
is applied to the standing car. This gives you almost 1/16"(1.6mm) of free play,
where the couplers are prying each other open under mere spring pressure, before
you actually start pushing the standing car.  This makes a big difference when
coupling to light cars, and still helps with heavier ones.

That said, I am quite attracted to Sargent's Sharon couplers.

Note: I had never run across Dale Buxton's HOn3 coupler boxes for Sargent
couplers.  Even had a hard time finding them today.  Finally found them by using
Shapeway's search with "Hon3 coupler boxes".   Actually got 21 pages worth of
references, but Dale's were the second item listed.

John Stutz


On 10/11/2018 06:46 AM, Dusty wrote:
> Some people use the N scale couplers. They are smaller but close up they still
> are a split coupler.
>
> Dusty Burman




Re: Couplers

Mike Conder
 

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 7:45 PM John Stutz via Groups.Io <john.c.stutz=nasa.gov@groups.io> wrote:
I have previously advocated using the so called "N-scale" couplers made by
MicroTrains(MT) for HOn3.  When compared to a Sargent "Sharon" they are vary
near the right size for a circa 1900 full size MCB coupler, as used by the
Colorado NG roads.  They are still oversize for the 3/4 size MCBs that were
mostly used on the 3' gauge elsewhere.

You are correct that MT couplers "... still are a split coupler.", but there are
two distinct types of MT split couplers.  The MT 1024 & 1025 are downsized
versions of the Kadee 714, and suffer the same problems.  I have scrapped all
that I once had.

The MT 1015, 1016, & 1019 reverse the 714's spring arrangement, placing the
spring outboard of the pivot instead of inboard of it.  This eliminates the
objectionable spring action that occurs while pulling cars equipped with 714s,
although you then get spring action while pushing cars.  The big advantage of
the MT 1015 & etc. is how the spring placement affects coupling to a car.  With
the original style split couplers, the moment that two couplers touch the
coupling force is applied to the standing car.  If the couplers do not
immediately open, you are pushing the car down the siding.  With the revised
style split couplers, the centering springs must close before significant force
is applied to the standing car. This gives you almost 1/16"(1.6mm) of free play,
where the couplers are prying each other open under mere spring pressure, before
you actually start pushing the standing car.  This makes a big difference when
coupling to light cars, and still helps with heavier ones.

That said, I am quite attracted to Sargent's Sharon couplers.

Note: I had never run across Dale Buxton's HOn3 coupler boxes for Sargent
couplers.  Even had a hard time finding them today.  Finally found them by using
Shapeway's search with "Hon3 coupler boxes".   Actually got 21 pages worth of
references, but Dale's were the second item listed.

John Stutz


On 10/11/2018 06:46 AM, Dusty wrote:
> Some people use the N scale couplers. They are smaller but close up they still
> are a split coupler.
>
> Dusty Burman




Re: Looking for Silverton Information

Doug Boudakian <dboudrrtrain@...>
 

Look at the Durango book by Richard Dorman and Colorado Rail annual 17 talks about the Silverton line. 

Doug Boudakian 




On Oct 11, 2018, at 8:59 PM, David Hunt <david.hunt@...> wrote:

I'm looking for information about Silverton in the late 1940's.  A track diagram would be a good start.  Information about any local rail shippers and types of loads in and out would also be useful.  Pictures of the structures in town during this period would be the icing on the cake.

 

I would guess that I have the information in my library somewhere, but I haven't run across it yet.  If members of the group could point me in the right direction I would be most appreciative.

 

Thanks.

 

Dave Hunt


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Looking for Silverton Information

David Hunt
 

I'm looking for information about Silverton in the late 1940's.  A track diagram would be a good start.  Information about any local rail shippers and types of loads in and out would also be useful.  Pictures of the structures in town during this period would be the icing on the cake.

 

I would guess that I have the information in my library somewhere, but I haven't run across it yet.  If members of the group could point me in the right direction I would be most appreciative.

 

Thanks.

 

Dave Hunt


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Couplers

John Stutz
 

I have previously advocated using the so called "N-scale" couplers made by MicroTrains(MT) for HOn3. When compared to a Sargent "Sharon" they are vary near the right size for a circa 1900 full size MCB coupler, as used by the Colorado NG roads. They are still oversize for the 3/4 size MCBs that were mostly used on the 3' gauge elsewhere.

You are correct that MT couplers "... still are a split coupler.", but there are two distinct types of MT split couplers. The MT 1024 & 1025 are downsized versions of the Kadee 714, and suffer the same problems. I have scrapped all that I once had.

The MT 1015, 1016, & 1019 reverse the 714's spring arrangement, placing the spring outboard of the pivot instead of inboard of it. This eliminates the objectionable spring action that occurs while pulling cars equipped with 714s, although you then get spring action while pushing cars. The big advantage of the MT 1015 & etc. is how the spring placement affects coupling to a car. With the original style split couplers, the moment that two couplers touch the coupling force is applied to the standing car. If the couplers do not immediately open, you are pushing the car down the siding. With the revised style split couplers, the centering springs must close before significant force is applied to the standing car. This gives you almost 1/16"(1.6mm) of free play, where the couplers are prying each other open under mere spring pressure, before you actually start pushing the standing car. This makes a big difference when coupling to light cars, and still helps with heavier ones.

That said, I am quite attracted to Sargent's Sharon couplers.

Note: I had never run across Dale Buxton's HOn3 coupler boxes for Sargent couplers. Even had a hard time finding them today. Finally found them by using Shapeway's search with "Hon3 coupler boxes". Actually got 21 pages worth of references, but Dale's were the second item listed.

John Stutz

On 10/11/2018 06:46 AM, Dusty wrote:
Some people use the N scale couplers. They are smaller but close up they still are a split coupler.
Dusty Burman


Re: Couplers

Climax@...
 




-----Original Message-----
>From: duncan
>Sent: Oct 11, 2018 4:48 PM
>To: HOn3@groups.io
>Subject: Re: [HOn3] Couplers
>
>Dale,
>
>     I sure didn't mean to upset you, or anyone else, for that matter! 
>Didn't intend to be unfair.  I had read the comment about his opening
>the design work up for others to use.  I thought I had also heard of cut
>backs in assembled couplers and certain quantities of others.  I have
>also heard from others, locally and off line, wondering about future
>production.  So, thought my question was well reasoned.  I'm glad to
>hear production is still ongoing and that it will be for the foreseeable
>future.  I wonder how many others are out there with the same
>misconception as I had?
>
>     I am glad that I brought up the self centering coupler box you had
>designed.  It sounds like there are some others out there who didn't
>know about them.  Maybe that comment will perk up your sales.  I'm sure
>going to give it some thought and maybe give the couplers another try
>using your coupler box.  It sounds like no one has any answers to my
>other questions.  So apparently no one has found a way to integrate
>operations with Kadees until you can get your whole fleet converted.
>
>     It would be good to know more about your thoughts on your different
>operation process.  I know we do a lot of things in our model world that
>the real roads didn't do.  Our trains run on electricity, our turnouts
>(or switches) are often thrown by electric motors, or by air pressure,
>we often throw the turnout before the train gets to the turnout and so
>on.  Sometimes it is just our size that makes these things necessary. 
>We're too big to get down beside the car and lift the cut lever to
>uncouple the car.  So, in a couple of the cases I cited, my size makes
>it so I can't do that operation as realistically as I'd like.  And it is
>in those situations where I need help understanding how others
>accomplish what I can't seem to figure out.
>Although I have not tried it, I have seen and heard of people that use a long pointed stick that they put down into the coupler and and twist is to pop the couplers open when not over a magnet.
>     Those are the things I was wanting to get clarity on.  Thanks for
>your help clarifying Sergent availability.  And thanks for your work on
>the coupler box to facilitate coupler self centering.  Further knowledge
>of how to accomplish that at the back of a big yard, or where there is
>some impediment between the operator and the car and its coupler would
>be helpful and appreciated.
>
>Duncan Harvey
>
>
>
>


Re: Couplers

duncan
 

Dale,

    I sure didn't mean to upset you, or anyone else, for that matter!  Didn't intend to be unfair.  I had read the comment about his opening the design work up for others to use.  I thought I had also heard of cut backs in assembled couplers and certain quantities of others.  I have also heard from others, locally and off line, wondering about future production.  So, thought my question was well reasoned.  I'm glad to hear production is still ongoing and that it will be for the foreseeable future.  I wonder how many others are out there with the same misconception as I had?

    I am glad that I brought up the self centering coupler box you had designed.  It sounds like there are some others out there who didn't know about them.  Maybe that comment will perk up your sales.  I'm sure going to give it some thought and maybe give the couplers another try using your coupler box.  It sounds like no one has any answers to my other questions.  So apparently no one has found a way to integrate operations with Kadees until you can get your whole fleet converted.

    It would be good to know more about your thoughts on your different operation process.  I know we do a lot of things in our model world that the real roads didn't do.  Our trains run on electricity, our turnouts (or switches) are often thrown by electric motors, or by air pressure, we often throw the turnout before the train gets to the turnout and so on.  Sometimes it is just our size that makes these things necessary.  We're too big to get down beside the car and lift the cut lever to uncouple the car.  So, in a couple of the cases I cited, my size makes it so I can't do that operation as realistically as I'd like.  And it is in those situations where I need help understanding how others accomplish what I can't seem to figure out.

    Those are the things I was wanting to get clarity on.  Thanks for your help clarifying Sergent availability.  And thanks for your work on the coupler box to facilitate coupler self centering.  Further knowledge of how to accomplish that at the back of a big yard, or where there is some impediment between the operator and the car and its coupler would be helpful and appreciated.

Duncan Harvey


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3 - Headlight?

Bill Lugg
 

I found the liquid at http://www.skygeek.com/70104-l.html for about $3
less than MSC Direct and their shipping is about $2 less than MSCDirect.

It looks like this stuff is great for machining too.  I'm getting a
couple of bottles of the liquid, one for the modeling table downstairs
and one for the shop.  At $7.75 a bottle, you can't beat it.

Bill Lugg

On 10/11/2018 12:37 AM, Dale Buxton wrote:
Larry,

Several years ago I needed some more Boelube and could not find it on
the PBL web site then either. I found it at a small aircraft
construction suppler that specializes in Spruce Wood. (
https://www.aircraftspruce.com ) I thought the connection was strange
but they stocked both liquid and and stick form.  A 4 oz. bottle was
reasonable in price (about $12 and the stick was about $4). I think I
like the liquid better than the stick. Which reminds me, I need to
order some more.


I just did a quick search for the stuff and found it at  MSC Direct.
They have a better price point and always have really fast delivery times!

Dale Buxton



On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 9:10 PM LARRY KLOSE <lklose@cox.net
<mailto:lklose@cox.net>> wrote:

Re drilling and hazards to the model from parts falling off, PBL (Sn3
Specialist) sells or sold a product called Boelube for lubricating
drills.
Developed by Boeing, it helps by enhancing cutting speed and
keeping the
work piece cooler.  I don't see it on the web site but maybe that's an
oversight.  Try calling to see if it's still available.  PBL part
no. 800.
This is an industrial product so it may no longer be available in
small
quantities.

P-B-L.com;707-462-7680.

Ask Joe Melhorn who recently posted about drill speed.  In the
course of an
LED and decoder install for me he recently drilled some very
delicate light
castings soldered to one of my models and as I recall, he used a
pretty high
speed.  Nothing fell off.

Can't comment on the best route for the wiring.

Larry





Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3 - Headlight?

rick@...
 


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3 - Headlight?

rick@...
 

There is also a product called Boeshield that is great for metal tops (like on a table saw) that protects against rust and is slippery as all get out. A lot goes a long way, so a small squirt (it's in an aerosol can) into a bottle might be great to use as a substitute for Boelube. Amazon has it. Search foe Boeshield T9 or try the link below.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_9?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=boeshield+t+9&sprefix=boeshield%2Caps%2C260&crid=O97XBSQJECJ9

Rick


Re: Couplers

Mike Van Hove
 

Hi Dale,

Your sales have just increased exponentially, I ordered (2) sets.

We’ll see how it goes.

Thanks for designing these.

Mive Van Hove

On Oct 10, 2018, at 10:52 PM, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

My mistake Mike. My Shapeways box is for the Sergent ENB87K (Sharon) type coupler. The EN87 is the wrong coupler.

Dale Buxton


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3 - Headlight?

Mark Kasprowicz
 
Edited

Larry,

Thanks for the tip about Boelube, I just ordered some in stick form, the liquid is available but in larger quantities. I'd been using ordinary oil or nothing at all up to now. Perhaps my 'bits falling off' scenarios willl come to an end.

Mark K


Re: Couplers

Dusty
 

Some people use the N scale couplers. They are smaller but close up they still are a split coupler.

Dusty Burman


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3 - Headlight?

Dale Buxton
 

Larry,

Several years ago I needed some more Boelube and could not find it on the PBL web site then either. I found it at a small aircraft construction suppler that specializes in Spruce Wood. ( https://www.aircraftspruce.com ) I thought the connection was strange but they stocked both liquid and and stick form.  A 4 oz. bottle was reasonable in price (about $12 and the stick was about $4). I think I like the liquid better than the stick. Which reminds me, I need to order some more.


I just did a quick search for the stuff and found it at  MSC Direct. They have a better price point and always have really fast delivery times!

Dale Buxton



On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 9:10 PM LARRY KLOSE <lklose@...> wrote:
Re drilling and hazards to the model from parts falling off, PBL (Sn3
Specialist) sells or sold a product called Boelube for lubricating drills.
Developed by Boeing, it helps by enhancing cutting speed and keeping the
work piece cooler.  I don't see it on the web site but maybe that's an
oversight.  Try calling to see if it's still available.  PBL part no. 800.
This is an industrial product so it may no longer be available in small
quantities.

P-B-L.com;707-462-7680.

Ask Joe Melhorn who recently posted about drill speed.  In the course of an
LED and decoder install for me he recently drilled some very delicate light
castings soldered to one of my models and as I recall, he used a pretty high
speed.  Nothing fell off.

Can't comment on the best route for the wiring.

Larry





Re: Couplers

Mike Conder
 

Even better!  Now I don't have to make a 3D model of one.

Thanks!

Mike Conder

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 9:52 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
My mistake Mike. My Shapeways box is for the Sergent ENB87K (Sharon) type coupler. The EN87 is the wrong coupler.

Dale Buxton


Re: Couplers

Dale Buxton
 

My mistake Mike. My Shapeways box is for the Sergent ENB87K (Sharon) type coupler. The EN87 is the wrong coupler.

Dale Buxton


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3 - Headlight?

LARRY KLOSE
 

Re drilling and hazards to the model from parts falling off, PBL (Sn3
Specialist) sells or sold a product called Boelube for lubricating drills.
Developed by Boeing, it helps by enhancing cutting speed and keeping the
work piece cooler. I don't see it on the web site but maybe that's an
oversight. Try calling to see if it's still available. PBL part no. 800.
This is an industrial product so it may no longer be available in small
quantities.

P-B-L.com;707-462-7680.

Ask Joe Melhorn who recently posted about drill speed. In the course of an
LED and decoder install for me he recently drilled some very delicate light
castings soldered to one of my models and as I recall, he used a pretty high
speed. Nothing fell off.

Can't comment on the best route for the wiring.

Larry


Re: Couplers

Dale Buxton
 

Nice! Good thinking Mike.

Dale Buxton


Re: Couplers

Mike Conder
 

Dale, I pretty much agree with you on all that.  Also, I forgot about your stuff on Shapeways but I'll be picking some up soon.  I have a few of the EN87's but mostly Sharons.

As for the company, I think Frank Sergent had opened his designs so others can make them too, as some day he will get our of the business.   But the couplers are totally available now and he's working to make sure they stay that way.  Don't need any inaccurate rumors running around ....

So Duncan, of you don't want the Sergent stuff anymore I'll gladly take then off your hands!

Mike Conder


Re: Couplers

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Dale,

If I had known about your modified coupler box and just starting out, I wouldn't hesitate. It's that it's a bit late for this auld dawg to learn new tricks. I do recall that Jeff Johnston at Blackstone models once told me that they'd considered Sergents seriously. THAT would have changed the industry standard.
Mark

BTW has anyone noticed the prices of Blackstone stuff. A used K-27 went for nearly $800 on Ebay recently and cabooses go for around $130. I remember when Vic Stone's Taking Stock' book started fetching silly prices. Somehow Vic found the occasional 'forgotten box' in his attic to meet the inflated demand. Good man, that man!

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