Date   

Re: #18

ckodani@...
 

Wow, just recently there was a similar question on the HOn30 board! The solution is really easy in 2.5 foot gauge: find a suitable N scale drive, cut down the HO diesel shell to appropriate width, and presto—narrow gauge critter that runs great! I think it might even cost less to buy an N scale drive than trying to convert an HO drive mechanism to HOn3. 


Re: #18

Paul Sturtz
 

This subject comes up every now and then.  Yes, there was an article in RMC July 2008 by the Hauff brothers on how to convert Bachman 70t std gauge diesels to HOn3.  It involved cutting the truck gear boxes shorter in order to fit NWSL wheel/axles.  These were specially made for the Hauffs at first but became a catalog item from NWSL.  They are no longer made but sometimes may be found in the stash of modelers who never got around to using them.  In addition, Bachmann changed the design of the 70t (and 44t) trucks so even if you have the wheel/axle kit, you have to find the old style diesel.  

I have converted 38 Bachmann 70t and 44t to HOn3.  I sold all but three and those remaining have sound installed.  Due to differences in gearing, the 44t didn't run as well as the 70t so I only converted two of them.  I have posted photos in the past but I'm not sure if they made the move to this site.

Paul Sturtz


Re: #18

lloyd lehrer
 

Mr. Cohen is right. They were 70 tonners.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 9:20 PM lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:
Jim, several years ago, maybe 6-8 yrs, there was a spread done by one of the northwest logging fans. He took a SG 44 and ground down the gears and axles and wrote it up. It was one of the Hauff brothers I believe. I am out of the country for the next few weeks so i cant look thru my archives.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 5:40 PM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Paul/anyone,
  What did you do to convert a standard gauge 44 tonner to narrow gauge -
specifically what did you use for the drive components?

  I'm seriously thinking about two different GE critter projects.
  The first is C&TS #19 which is a GE 45 tonner drop cab.
  The second one is the Pacific Lumber standard gauge #101
which is a Super 88 which, to the best of my knowledge, has
never been done in any scale other than S (scratch/kitbash
by one guy).  I intend to start with two 70-tonners. 
                                                                                      - Jim B. 


--
lloyd lehrer


Re: #18

lloyd lehrer
 

Jim, several years ago, maybe 6-8 yrs, there was a spread done by one of the northwest logging fans. He took a SG 44 and ground down the gears and axles and wrote it up. It was one of the Hauff brothers I believe. I am out of the country for the next few weeks so i cant look thru my archives.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 5:40 PM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Paul/anyone,
  What did you do to convert a standard gauge 44 tonner to narrow gauge -
specifically what did you use for the drive components?

  I'm seriously thinking about two different GE critter projects.
  The first is C&TS #19 which is a GE 45 tonner drop cab.
  The second one is the Pacific Lumber standard gauge #101
which is a Super 88 which, to the best of my knowledge, has
never been done in any scale other than S (scratch/kitbash
by one guy).  I intend to start with two 70-tonners. 
                                                                                      - Jim B. 


--
lloyd lehrer


Re: #18

Jim Betz <jimbetz@...>
 

Wayne,
  Thanks for the info.  Here's a pic of drop cab 45 tonner C&TS #19 taken just last month.
I like the funky spark arrestors and will probably do them even though they were added
about 2007 during the major rebuild.
                                                                                   - Jim B.


Re: #18

waynecohen49@...
 

Jim,

Many years ago, there was an article in RMC about converting a Bachman 70 Tonner to Narrow Gauge, and NWSL made a limited run of  half-shaft, Narrow Gauge wheels for such a project.  They probably can still be found.  

The 44 Tonner can be done the same way.  I’ve got most of the work done converting one, but then the project lost momentum.  It’s to be a standing for #19 (could be the same for #15).  I’ll show it to you next time I see you.

Wayne 



On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 8:40 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Paul/anyone,
  What did you do to convert a standard gauge 44 tonner to narrow gauge -
specifically what did you use for the drive components?

  I'm seriously thinking about two different GE critter projects.
  The first is C&TS #19 which is a GE 45 tonner drop cab.
  The second one is the Pacific Lumber standard gauge #101
which is a Super 88 which, to the best of my knowledge, has
never been done in any scale other than S (scratch/kitbash
by one guy).  I intend to start with two 70-tonners. 
                                                                                      - Jim B. 

--
Wayne Cohen


Re: #18

Jim Betz <jimbetz@...>
 

Paul/anyone,
  What did you do to convert a standard gauge 44 tonner to narrow gauge -
specifically what did you use for the drive components?

  I'm seriously thinking about two different GE critter projects.
  The first is C&TS #19 which is a GE 45 tonner drop cab.
  The second one is the Pacific Lumber standard gauge #101
which is a Super 88 which, to the best of my knowledge, has
never been done in any scale other than S (scratch/kitbash
by one guy).  I intend to start with two 70-tonners. 
                                                                                      - Jim B. 


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Climax@...
 

I have a 484 as well and although its been in a case for nearly 20 years, and is as good as the day it came from Overland, it's still an excellent model that I have never run.  I also have 491, 470, 465. 459, and 452.
DB

-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Moignard
Sent: Sep 12, 2018 5:02 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 #487 in HOn3

Firstly, $500 for DCC & sound (and lights) is outrageous.    I would expect to do it here in the UK for between £100 and £150, plus hardware.

Secondly, the best current K-36 is probably the PSC 2002 run, which was made by MSM, who also made the Overland.  I have a PSC 2002 487, and also a 484 and 489, and they are superb.  Overlands are also good, I have a 488 and 486 from their 1990 run.

Other K-36 models in Hon3 are
-        Balboa.  Poorly detailed, open frame motor. Just don't.
-        PFM/Fuji.  Ok, but still a generic model of the class, which for most purposes is OK, because the 36s didn't change that much over their lifetimes.   Runs Ok, but benefits from replacing the driver springs with weaker ones, but is still "stiff" and won't go round much less than 24" comfortably.
-        Westside. Used to the be regarded as the definitive model, I don't think so any more.  I have one. Runs well and pulls well, once the pointlessly weak coreless motor is replaced.  However, it has some scale issues - boiler a bit large, possibly overscale tender, and some detailing bears little relationship to any K-36 I've studied, such as the piping along the outside of the tender frame. My 486 is on the shelf now.   BTW has anyone noticed that all Westside K-27 tenders are about 2mm too wide, including the two PSC did using Westside parts of 453 and 461 in the early 80s?  
-        PSC 1984 run.  Silver box: this is a rerun of the Westside, above, with some detail changes and supposedly issued in 480 and 484 versions.   Same issues as above.  Do not confuse this with the 2002 model.  I have a 480, now relegated to the shelf.
-        Overland/MSM 1990 model: models of 486, 487, 488. 488 has the square corners on the upper raves of the tender properly done. The locos are reasonably well detailed models, tho the tender frames on both mine have the late rerail frog hangers for the butterfly frogs form the 1960.  Run well, no hesitation in recommending these.  All were issued unpainted.
-        PSC sometime in the mid-90s. I have seen a PSC-branded K-36 that is identical to the Overland/Ajin 1990 run loco.  I never saw it advertised, and the box label was done with a typewriter, so it may have been an Overland in the wrong box.
-        PSC/MSM 2002.  The best K36 so far, detail, appearance, running.  They made factory painted versions of all 10, with two of 482, and an unpainted generic.  They even did the older tender rerail frog hangers one some tenders and other differences like the cab roof hatch and numberboards, plus the external airpump exhaust on 487, that it had from the mid-50s onwards (actually so did Overland).  
-        Upcoming Division Point.  I suspect that these are aimed more at the glass-case market than the layout operator, but we will see.  Their 27 and 28 had the wrong stacks.,,,  I do have one on reserve.

Mick

______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
IBM Notes and Domino: still has what it takes as an App Dev and Collaboration platform.


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Mick Moignard
 

Firstly, $500 for DCC & sound (and lights) is outrageous.    I would expect to do it here in the UK for between £100 and £150, plus hardware.

Secondly, the best current K-36 is probably the PSC 2002 run, which was made by MSM, who also made the Overland.  I have a PSC 2002 487, and also a 484 and 489, and they are superb.  Overlands are also good, I have a 488 and 486 from their 1990 run.

Other K-36 models in Hon3 are
-        Balboa.  Poorly detailed, open frame motor. Just don't.
-        PFM/Fuji.  Ok, but still a generic model of the class, which for most purposes is OK, because the 36s didn't change that much over their lifetimes.   Runs Ok, but benefits from replacing the driver springs with weaker ones, but is still "stiff" and won't go round much less than 24" comfortably.
-        Westside. Used to the be regarded as the definitive model, I don't think so any more.  I have one. Runs well and pulls well, once the pointlessly weak coreless motor is replaced.  However, it has some scale issues - boiler a bit large, possibly overscale tender, and some detailing bears little relationship to any K-36 I've studied, such as the piping along the outside of the tender frame. My 486 is on the shelf now.   BTW has anyone noticed that all Westside K-27 tenders are about 2mm too wide, including the two PSC did using Westside parts of 453 and 461 in the early 80s?  
-        PSC 1984 run.  Silver box: this is a rerun of the Westside, above, with some detail changes and supposedly issued in 480 and 484 versions.   Same issues as above.  Do not confuse this with the 2002 model.  I have a 480, now relegated to the shelf.
-        Overland/MSM 1990 model: models of 486, 487, 488. 488 has the square corners on the upper raves of the tender properly done. The locos are reasonably well detailed models, tho the tender frames on both mine have the late rerail frog hangers for the butterfly frogs form the 1960.  Run well, no hesitation in recommending these.  All were issued unpainted.
-        PSC sometime in the mid-90s. I have seen a PSC-branded K-36 that is identical to the Overland/Ajin 1990 run loco.  I never saw it advertised, and the box label was done with a typewriter, so it may have been an Overland in the wrong box.
-        PSC/MSM 2002.  The best K36 so far, detail, appearance, running.  They made factory painted versions of all 10, with two of 482, and an unpainted generic.  They even did the older tender rerail frog hangers one some tenders and other differences like the cab roof hatch and numberboards, plus the external airpump exhaust on 487, that it had from the mid-50s onwards (actually so did Overland).  
-        Upcoming Division Point.  I suspect that these are aimed more at the glass-case market than the layout operator, but we will see.  Their 27 and 28 had the wrong stacks.,,,  I do have one on reserve.

Mick

______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
IBM Notes and Domino: still has what it takes as an App Dev and Collaboration platform.


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Dave Trimble
 

Jim,

If you are concerned about running characteristics, I suggest you review locodoc’s list of proven hon3 conversion for some insight on potential problems with many models. It’s found at 

Dave Trimble 


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Jim Betz <jimbetz@...>
 

Hi,

  Follow up questions ...

  1) Which of the HOn3 models run the best?
  2) Any of them that are harder than others to convert to DCC?
  3) The Westside models have a coreless motor.  Although I've
       done several hundred DCC installs (including sound) I've
       not done one with a coreless motor.  Should I just plan to
       replace the motor?
                                                                                 - Jim B.


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Jim Betz <jimbetz@...>
 

Hi guys,

  Thanks for all the info!  I'm not new to the hobby but I am
new to narrow gauge ... having pretty much 'ignored' them
for 30+ years.

  Is there a list/database some where that provides the
differences between the various K-36 locos?  Yes, I
realize that "what date you are talking about makes
a difference".  At the same time there are primary
differences - such as whether or not it has a dog
house tender - that easily identify a loco that is 
quite some distance from the viewer (photographer)
and those are the differences I'm asking about.
  Yes, I have already done some research - and
gathered a fair number of images of #487.  But
even the models that claim to be of #487 seem
to have some differences from one to the next
(such as having a plow or not).
  I picked up one of the Quick Pic Books - the
one on the K-36 class ... and am using it but
finding it has a lot of images that are not 
identified (what loco was the pic taken of)
and also it is, in general, pretty light on text.

                                                            - Jim B.


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Jim Spencer
 

How would you rate the DP units against other brass, including Overlands, Westsides, PFM Fujiyamas, etc?

On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:02 PM, Lee Sorensen <narrowminded2@...> wrote:

The DP new units were shown at the NG convention. No sound.

 

Here is another unit that may be of interest.

 

 

Lee Sorensen
Narrow Minded 2

James G. Spencer, Architect, AIA 






Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Lee Sorensen
 

The DP new units were shown at the NG convention. No sound.

 

Here is another unit that may be of interest.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/D-RGW-Class-K-36-Steam-Locomotive-2-8-2-PFM-Fijuyama-Kogyo-HOn3-Unpainted-Brass/273440510544?hash=item3faa531250:g:RF8AAOSwcMhbjW~I#viTabs_0

 

Lee Sorensen

Narrow Minded 2


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Jim Spencer
 

Yeah, but I am assuming that DP’s won’t come with DCC and sound and they won’t be weathered, either.  Also, in comparison with the Blackstone versions (none of which include 487), my Overland 487 is filled with lead and will pull!!! (I also have 486 and 488 - filled with Cerobend)  Right now I am converting all three to Tsunami 1100 decoders with sugar cube speakers in the fire boxes.  All 3 will easily pull 40 cars at the Slim Gauge Guild in Pasadena.  Fun!  

I have an order in for a Blackstone K-36.  But that was more than 2 years ago.  And they still haven’t, from what I can tell, gone much beyond a 3D model.  And, while tempted to order a DP, the $2,200 price tag is beyond my tolerance. So maybe I wait.  Time will tell.  No matter what, the brass versions will be more detailed and pull much better.

Jim

On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Towne Comee <prowordsmith@...> wrote:

I'll bet painting/weathering alone will add $500 to $750 to the cost of the brass locomotive.  
Add another $450 to $500 for DCC and sound.
 
Towne Comee
San Antonio, Texas 


On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 3:22 PM, Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:


Jim:

Or wait (?) for the Blackstone K36, with Tsunami2 DCC and sound, at probably  $500 to $600.  

Mark Lewis 

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 3:42 PM Don Peterson via Groups.Io <sagenut3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Not sure about cheaper than DP but always available http://www.i-sng.com/inventory/product?prod=hon3_brass_overland_d7rgw_k-36%2C_unpainted_

Custom painting and DCC install would add another $5-600 I would guess

Don Peterson
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/11/18, Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 #487 in HOn3
 To: HOn3@groups.io
 Cc: "Jim Spencer" <trainmanjs@...>
 Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2018, 12:47 PM

 Probably the
 most accurate and best model done to date is the Overland
 487 done in the late 1980s.   They did 486, 487, and
 488.
 They
 would be vastly cheaper than the upcoming DPs, more than
 $1,000 less. Jim 
 On Sep 11, 2018, at 9:31 AM, Jim Betz
 <jimbetz@...>
 wrote:
 Hi all,
   Just joined the group today. 
 I'm interested in acquiring the subject model.
 Preferably painted with
 DCC and sound - but will consider any model that
 correctly represents #487
 (or very close to it).
   I've been searching the web for
 possible copies and haven't found any
 (at this time).  I've been told
 that the Westsides are the best in terms of
 both running and detail (other than
 the Division Points).
   Yes, I know about the DPs - but
 their website is pretty light on details
 such as whether or not they come with
 sound, what decoder, etc.
 And it appears that they are $2300
 (correct?).  Not sure I'll pop for
 that much because I don't expect
 to get much use out of it ... and,
 yes, I will run it!
                          
                                        
                           - Jim B.





 James G.
 Spencer, Architect, AIA trainmanjs@...














James G. Spencer, Architect, AIA 






Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Towne Comee
 

I'll bet painting/weathering alone will add $500 to $750 to the cost of the brass locomotive.  
Add another $450 to $500 for DCC and sound.
 
Towne Comee
San Antonio, Texas 


On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 3:22 PM, Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:


Jim:

Or wait (?) for the Blackstone K36, with Tsunami2 DCC and sound, at probably  $500 to $600.  

Mark Lewis 

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 3:42 PM Don Peterson via Groups.Io <sagenut3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Not sure about cheaper than DP but always available http://www.i-sng.com/inventory/product?prod=hon3_brass_overland_d7rgw_k-36%2C_unpainted_

Custom painting and DCC install would add another $5-600 I would guess

Don Peterson
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/11/18, Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 #487 in HOn3
 To: HOn3@groups.io
 Cc: "Jim Spencer" <trainmanjs@...>
 Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2018, 12:47 PM

 Probably the
 most accurate and best model done to date is the Overland
 487 done in the late 1980s.   They did 486, 487, and
 488.
 They
 would be vastly cheaper than the upcoming DPs, more than
 $1,000 less. Jim 
 On Sep 11, 2018, at 9:31 AM, Jim Betz
 <jimbetz@...>
 wrote:
 Hi all,
   Just joined the group today. 
 I'm interested in acquiring the subject model.
 Preferably painted with
 DCC and sound - but will consider any model that
 correctly represents #487
 (or very close to it).
   I've been searching the web for
 possible copies and haven't found any
 (at this time).  I've been told
 that the Westsides are the best in terms of
 both running and detail (other than
 the Division Points).
   Yes, I know about the DPs - but
 their website is pretty light on details
 such as whether or not they come with
 sound, what decoder, etc.
 And it appears that they are $2300
 (correct?).  Not sure I'll pop for
 that much because I don't expect
 to get much use out of it ... and,
 yes, I will run it!
                          
                                        
                           - Jim B.





 James G.
 Spencer, Architect, AIA trainmanjs@...














Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Mark Lewis
 

Jim:

Or wait (?) for the Blackstone K36, with Tsunami2 DCC and sound, at probably  $500 to $600.  

Mark Lewis 

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 3:42 PM Don Peterson via Groups.Io <sagenut3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Not sure about cheaper than DP but always available http://www.i-sng.com/inventory/product?prod=hon3_brass_overland_d7rgw_k-36%2C_unpainted_

Custom painting and DCC install would add another $5-600 I would guess

Don Peterson
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/11/18, Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 #487 in HOn3
 To: HOn3@groups.io
 Cc: "Jim Spencer" <trainmanjs@...>
 Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2018, 12:47 PM

 Probably the
 most accurate and best model done to date is the Overland
 487 done in the late 1980s.   They did 486, 487, and
 488.
 They
 would be vastly cheaper than the upcoming DPs, more than
 $1,000 less. Jim 
 On Sep 11, 2018, at 9:31 AM, Jim Betz
 <jimbetz@...>
 wrote:
 Hi all,
   Just joined the group today. 
 I'm interested in acquiring the subject model.
 Preferably painted with
 DCC and sound - but will consider any model that
 correctly represents #487
 (or very close to it).
   I've been searching the web for
 possible copies and haven't found any
 (at this time).  I've been told
 that the Westsides are the best in terms of
 both running and detail (other than
 the Division Points).
   Yes, I know about the DPs - but
 their website is pretty light on details
 such as whether or not they come with
 sound, what decoder, etc.
 And it appears that they are $2300
 (correct?).  Not sure I'll pop for
 that much because I don't expect
 to get much use out of it ... and,
 yes, I will run it!
                          
                                        
                           - Jim B.





 James G.
 Spencer, Architect, AIA trainmanjs@...












Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Don Peterson
 

Not sure about cheaper than DP but always available http://www.i-sng.com/inventory/product?prod=hon3_brass_overland_d7rgw_k-36%2C_unpainted_

Custom painting and DCC install would add another $5-600 I would guess

Don Peterson
--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 9/11/18, Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 #487 in HOn3
To: HOn3@groups.io
Cc: "Jim Spencer" <trainmanjs@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2018, 12:47 PM

Probably the
most accurate and best model done to date is the Overland
487 done in the late 1980s.   They did 486, 487, and
488.
They
would be vastly cheaper than the upcoming DPs, more than
$1,000 less. Jim 
On Sep 11, 2018, at 9:31 AM, Jim Betz
<jimbetz@jimbetz.com>
wrote:
Hi all,
  Just joined the group today. 
I'm interested in acquiring the subject model.
Preferably painted with
DCC and sound - but will consider any model that
correctly represents #487
(or very close to it).
  I've been searching the web for
possible copies and haven't found any
(at this time).  I've been told
that the Westsides are the best in terms of
both running and detail (other than
the Division Points).
  Yes, I know about the DPs - but
their website is pretty light on details
such as whether or not they come with
sound, what decoder, etc.
And it appears that they are $2300
(correct?).  Not sure I'll pop for
that much because I don't expect
to get much use out of it ... and,
yes, I will run it!
                         
                                       
                          - Jim B.





James G.
Spencer, Architect, AIA trainmanjs@sbcglobal.net


Re: K-36 #487 in HOn3

Jim Spencer
 

Probably the most accurate and best model done to date is the Overland 487 done in the late 1980s.   They did 486, 487, and 488.

They would be vastly cheaper than the upcoming DPs, more than $1,000 less. 
Jim 
On Sep 11, 2018, at 9:31 AM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Hi all,
  Just joined the group today.  I'm interested in acquiring the subject model.
Preferably painted with DCC and sound - but will consider any model that
correctly represents #487 (or very close to it).
  I've been searching the web for possible copies and haven't found any
(at this time).  I've been told that the Westsides are the best in terms of
both running and detail (other than the Division Points).
  Yes, I know about the DPs - but their website is pretty light on details
such as whether or not they come with sound, what decoder, etc.
And it appears that they are $2300 (correct?).  Not sure I'll pop for
that much because I don't expect to get much use out of it ... and,
yes, I will run it!
                                                                                            - Jim B.

James G. Spencer, Architect, AIA 






K-36 #487 in HOn3

Jim Betz <jimbetz@...>
 

Hi all,
  Just joined the group today.  I'm interested in acquiring the subject model.
Preferably painted with DCC and sound - but will consider any model that
correctly represents #487 (or very close to it).
  I've been searching the web for possible copies and haven't found any
(at this time).  I've been told that the Westsides are the best in terms of
both running and detail (other than the Division Points).
  Yes, I know about the DPs - but their website is pretty light on details
such as whether or not they come with sound, what decoder, etc.
And it appears that they are $2300 (correct?).  Not sure I'll pop for
that much because I don't expect to get much use out of it ... and,
yes, I will run it!
                                                                                            - Jim B.

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