Date   

DRG #168 Project - Cab

Glenn Butcher
 

New post on my DRG #168 project, designing and fabricating the cab:

https://glenn.pulpitrock.net/blog/posts/2022-06-12_cab/


Kadee Truck Bolster Height

Zach Pabis
 

Hi folks,

New to the group and have a question for you all. Does anyone know the bolster height of Kadee (or any) brand trucks from the railhead? I do commercial work and this is my first HOn3 project, so I don't have any on hand to measure.

Thanks,
-Zach


Re: 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Sadly Mark. if BS ever had a C-16 in their plans other than to speculate whether there was any commonality in dimensions between the D&RGW C-classes it was light years away. It was an exercise and went no further. So no need for a Nitro tablet under the tongue at this point.
I'm curious to know how the United (Atlas Maufacturing)/ PFM got involved in HOn3. The partnership appears to have kick started the thing off in the mid 50's.


Re: 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

Mark Lewis
 

Mike, Mark and All,

Maybe we are all missing the obvious, when thinking of not having the C16's from Blackstone.
Maybe, just maybe, Blackstone...all along...planned/plans to bring to market a C16 HOn3 locomotive.......after the K28/36 locomotives are made available for sale. ūüėĪ
Be still my heart, oh happy days....OR NOT.ūü§Į

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.
(And waiting for Anything in HOn3 from Blackstone)


Re: 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

Mike Conder
 

I agree, Mark, the C-16 would have been wonderful to get from Blackstone.  But it sounds like they may have fallen into thatvold trap of letting the "perfect" killed the"good enough".  I heard (read "rumor") that they thought there were too many prototypes with different details, both in loco number and in year modeled.  

Wish they would have just done a couple of basics with add-on details specific to a loco and era ... that could have provided C&S and other lines with a model that excellently and sounded great.  Something like they did with the "early" C-19.  I daresay that they may have outsold the K-27's and C-19's!

Mike C
--
Mike Conder


Re: FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

LARRY KLOSE
 

Earl Knoob has good info about the loco's he discusses. One must look
carefully at the pictures, though.

This is all from memory but IIRC, several pictures of K-27's on the South
side of the RGS had swapped tenders, almost impossible to verify which
because the tender numbers weren't visible. In particular, 452 or 461 are
shown in several photos in volume 9 or 10 of the RGS Story trailing a
doghouse or windbreak on the tender around 1947, unlike the "matched"
version--hauling freight between Dolores and Durango. And very late in RGS'
game, 455 used 452's tender on a few runs. C class tenders were frequently
swapped as maintenance and wear sent the originals to the RIP track.

I can't recall why this was so important to me at the time but I was a more
uptight rivet counter back then. After starting my current layout, reason
prevailed because it's nearly impossible to fit every favorite variation of
any RGS item to a precise date because photographers weren't working every
day--or even every week. So on my layout, all the days depicted are days
when the famous, published photographers were not around. Solves lots of
problems and recognizes the ability of RGS employees to innovate and adapt
on a daily basis.

Larry


Re: 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

Mark Kasprowicz
 

John,

I'd agree. It looks the Kemtron C-16 by-passed United totally evidenced by the fact that United never made a C-16. As Earl states the Brown book list 1 C-16 made in 1955 but the previous year a K-28 appears, again just one being made. That went into production in '55, a total of 48 being made that year, more in following years. I believe one of the earlier ones passed though my hands some years ago The tender wrap was made up of two side. Each side coming from the water legs to a point in the middle of the back where they were joined in a visible seam. I still have the wrap somewhere. But I think you're right that the first C-16's were Kemtron and their csstings etc went onto PSC.

I don't think I am giving anything away here but as Blackstone was going through the C-19 design stages a good deal of attention also was given to the commonality of parts between it and other C-Class D&RG and RGS locomotives. I remember walking into the ex-Fed's office that Jeff and Jessica moved into and saw photos of all C-Class locos, not just the 19's, pinned up all over the place. Such a pity - the C-16 is the perfect Colorado tea kettle - yes, even more than the 315 /425!!

Mark K


Re: 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

Lee Gustafson
 

John,

Thank. Great information.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022, 11:49 AM, John Stutz <john.stutz@...> wrote:

Lee

Judging by several 1960's United models and a couple Kemtron kits, there was no connection beyond the common prototype and scale. 

The United models were basically made of plain and etched brass sheet stock, with turned domes and stack.   Castings were limited to parts not easily machined or fabricated: smoke box door and saddle, driver centers, and details like the air pumps.   The Kemtron models were mostly brass castings, still listed in successor PSC's catalog, with sheet brass limited to the boiler shell, cab roof, and tender body.  For example: Kemtron used cast and machined locomotive and tender frames, cast smoke box and cast cab walls, all of which were made of sheet stock in contemporary United models.

John Stutz
On June 8, 2022 7:05 AM Lee Gustafson via groups.io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

Was there any connection between the HOn3 Kemtron C-16 parts/kit and the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Does anyone have pictures of the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Thanks in advance.

Lee Gustafson 


Re: 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

Lee Gustafson
 

Earl,

Thank you. To continue the thread does anyone have photos of that pilot model or know it’s disposition? Additional question the late Len Madsen had an HOn3 Kemtron C-16 #268 in the bumble bee paint scheme built by the late John Carruthers does anyone know of the disposition of this model? As always thanks in advance.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022, 11:25 AM, Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:

My copy of the Brown Book shows 1 United PFM C-16 built in 1955 - probably a pilot model.  The next C-16 model was not produced until 1970-71 by Westside.

From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Lee Gustafson via groups.io <bagustaf@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 8:05 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited
 
Was there any connection between the HOn3 Kemtron C-16 parts/kit and the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Does anyone have pictures of the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Thanks in advance.

Lee Gustafson 

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022, 8:37 AM, John Hutnick <johnhutnick@...> wrote:

What is the 1954 United C-16?


Re: 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

John Stutz
 

Lee

Judging by several 1960's United models and a couple Kemtron kits, there was no connection beyond the common prototype and scale. 

The United models were basically made of plain and etched brass sheet stock, with turned domes and stack.   Castings were limited to parts not easily machined or fabricated: smoke box door and saddle, driver centers, and details like the air pumps.   The Kemtron models were mostly brass castings, still listed in successor PSC's catalog, with sheet brass limited to the boiler shell, cab roof, and tender body.  For example: Kemtron used cast and machined locomotive and tender frames, cast smoke box and cast cab walls, all of which were made of sheet stock in contemporary United models.

John Stutz

On June 8, 2022 7:05 AM Lee Gustafson via groups.io <bagustaf@...> wrote:

Was there any connection between the HOn3 Kemtron C-16 parts/kit and the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Does anyone have pictures of the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Thanks in advance.

Lee Gustafson 


Re: 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

Earl Knoob
 

My copy of the Brown Book shows 1 United PFM C-16 built in 1955 - probably a pilot model.  The next C-16 model was not produced until 1970-71 by Westside.

From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Lee Gustafson via groups.io <bagustaf@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 8:05 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] 1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited
 
Was there any connection between the HOn3 Kemtron C-16 parts/kit and the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Does anyone have pictures of the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Thanks in advance.

Lee Gustafson 

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022, 8:37 AM, John Hutnick <johnhutnick@...> wrote:

What is the 1954 United C-16?


1954 PFM United C-16 was K-27 revisited

Lee Gustafson
 

Was there any connection between the HOn3 Kemtron C-16 parts/kit and the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Does anyone have pictures of the 1954 PFM/United C-16? Thanks in advance.

Lee Gustafson 

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022, 8:37 AM, John Hutnick <johnhutnick@...> wrote:

What is the 1954 United C-16?


Re: FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

John Hutnick
 

What is the 1954 United C-16?


Re: C&TSRR Rail fan ROW Guide

John Stutz
 

thanks for the first hand information Earl

John Stutz

On June 7, 2022 11:38 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:


In the 20 years I worked there I only recall two stone culverts, at Coxo Curve and over Cumbres Creek just east of Cumbres at MP 329.  The rest were all concrete or steel culverts.  May of the fills which have culverts in the bottom were originally wooden trestles.  By the time the trestles were filled in, iron and concrete culvert were on the scene.  The stone culverts date back to the original construction.



From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of John Stutz <john.stutz@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2022 2:22 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] C&TSRR Rail fan ROW Guide

Don

In looking over the list in your section 8, C&TSRR track side featuers, I don't find any culverts listed.  While General Palmer  was president of the D&RG, into 1883, they made extensive use of (semi-)permanent masonry culverts constructed of sandstone.  The original sandstone culverts still support the high fills on the D&RG grade up the east side of Marshall Pass, and there are a dozen or so still extent on the High Desert line west of Mack, which was abandoned in 1890.   So I suspect there are a number on the Cumbres Pass line. 

A construction era photograph of the Coxo loop, that just caught the Wolf Creek culvert, suggests that it is a masonry arch of 10' to 15' span, similar to the Hairpin Creek Loop culvert.   This is probably the largest on the line, although other high fills warrant inspection.  Small masonry culverts, up to about 4' width, will be spanned by single long stones.  Wider examples will have roofs formed of stone slabs supported by light RR rails.

Well worth the effort of searching out, as these are some of the oldest existing structures on the RR.

John Stutz
On June 6, 2022 1:00 PM Don Bergman <dbrenegade@...> wrote:



This My Map is intended to help those planning to visit the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad. This is a unique historic railroad owned by the people of Colorado and New Mexico. Visitors have easy access to all features of this historic treasure. I have visited and occasionally rode the C&TSRR in 1976, 1989, 1997, 2003, 2006, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2017 and 2021. I do not claim to know everything about the C&TSRR, there are many who have visited it more often that I. But I wish I had this information during early visits. I missed much because of ignorance. Any suggestions to improve this presentation are appreciated. E-mail me at DBRenegade@.... In many layers there is usually a beginning statement helping the used to understand the layer. By clicking on the box my the layer that information can be turned Off and ON. If the track line gets in the way of observing the ROW Chick on the layer and remove it. It the MP Markers are annoying, click in the layer to remove them.
www.google.com
Don


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Scott Baker <sbake5570@...>
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 6:01 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] C&TSRR Rail fan ROW Guide

Hi Don, 
In a couple weeks, I will be exploring the line and parts of what has already been abandoned  between Chama and Durango. Thanks for producing a map, I think I saw your RGS map and it was amazing work, is there a link to the C&TS map you developed?


Re: FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

Climax@...
 

I have heard that it was not uncommon for many reasons that tenders were swapped out on locomotives so to say this or that is just picky.


Sent: Jun 7, 2022 4:55 PM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

 

Useful info cheers .All I can add is that the Westside C-16 268 is only accurate  in yellow bee livery  as far as I can see with 278 being in black .The 268 has the later tender mods which applied to the fancy scheme only .
Martin

On Tue, Jun 7, 2022 at 8:23 PM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:

Lee, Earl

No, it's interesting stuff. I think Earl has pre-empted me and answered your question and a few other besides as well. I am not gifted in the same way as others and able to look at a model and see detail and difference right away. So I have taken to photographing models and studying the photo. Odd but it works.

Mark K

 

 

 


Re: FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

martin feldwick
 

Useful info cheers .All I can add is that the Westside C-16 268 is only accurate  in yellow bee livery  as far as I can see with 278 being in black .The 268 has the later tender mods which applied to the fancy scheme only .
Martin


On Tue, Jun 7, 2022 at 8:23 PM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
Lee, Earl

No, it's interesting stuff. I think Earl has pre-empted me and answered your question and a few other besides as well. I am not gifted in the same way as others and able to look at a model and see detail and difference right away. So I have taken to photographing models and studying the photo. Odd but it works.

Mark K


Re: FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

Climax@...
 

Mark, Locomotives and women are alike in that respect.

DB

-----Original Message-----
From: <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Jun 7, 2022 3:26 PM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

 

Lee, Earl

No, it's interesting stuff. I think Earl has pre-empted me and answered your question and a few other besides as well. I am not gifted in the same way as others and able to look at a model and see detail and difference right away. So I have taken to photographing models and studying the photo. Odd but it works.

Mark K

 


Re: FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

Climax@...
 

Mark, Locomotives and women are alike in that respect.

DB

-----Original Message-----
From: <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Jun 7, 2022 3:26 PM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

 

Lee, Earl

No, it's interesting stuff. I think Earl has pre-empted me and answered your question and a few other besides as well. I am not gifted in the same way as others and able to look at a model and see detail and difference right away. So I have taken to photographing models and studying the photo. Odd but it works.

Mark K

 


Re: FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

Climax@...
 

Mark, Locomotives and women are alike in that respect.

DB

-----Original Message-----
From: <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Jun 7, 2022 3:26 PM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

 

Lee, Earl

No, it's interesting stuff. I think Earl has pre-empted me and answered your question and a few other besides as well. I am not gifted in the same way as others and able to look at a model and see detail and difference right away. So I have taken to photographing models and studying the photo. Odd but it works.

Mark K

 


Re: FS: PFM United HOn3 K-27 "Revisited"

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Lee, Earl

No, it's interesting stuff. I think Earl has pre-empted me and answered your question and a few other besides as well. I am not gifted in the same way as others and able to look at a model and see detail and difference right away. So I have taken to photographing models and studying the photo. Odd but it works.

Mark K

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