Date   

Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Climax@...
 

I use to live in the west Chicago area, Northwest Detroit area, Key West Florida, San Juan Puerto Rico, Orlando Fl, DFW TX and again in Orlando and all I use is either Elmer's or Arlean's Tack glue on my wood cars and structuers.  Never seem to have had a problem except for a model that fell apart that was built in 1963 and I used Ambroid Glue.  I sanded that and put it back together with Arlean's and did some touch up and its still running great.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Apr 10, 2022 6:10 PM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

 

Mark
 
Differing expansion/contraction rates can be a problem with wood on wood as well, given the large difference between the with-grain and across-grain expansion of raw wood in response to internal moisture content. 
 
I once assembled a Camino Models wood box car kit with a rubber based cement, probably Plyobond, and only lightly painted it.  This was basically the same as the LaBell kits, with core formers under scribed sheathing.  Side and roof sheathing required two pieces.   Mid-western heat and humidity cycling affected the wood enough that the glue joints yielded, without breaking.  So  the shorter widths were pushed about 1mm toward the car end, leaving gaps when the wood later shrank!
 
Probably would not have happened if I had used a rigid glue, but provides a good argument for sealing any wood going into a model.  Especially on a flat car, where there is little stiffness to prevent an expanding deck from bowing the frame.
 
 
 John Stutz 
Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
...  C of E between different materials might not seem a lot on paper but in the real world can create destruction.

 


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

John Stutz
 

Mark

Differing expansion/contraction rates can be a problem with wood on wood as well, given the large difference between the with-grain and across-grain expansion of raw wood in response to internal moisture content. 

I once assembled a Camino Models wood box car kit with a rubber based cement, probably Plyobond, and only lightly painted it.  This was basically the same as the LaBell kits, with core formers under scribed sheathing.  Side and roof sheathing required two pieces.   Mid-western heat and humidity cycling affected the wood enough that the glue joints yielded, without breaking.  So  the shorter widths were pushed about 1mm toward the car end, leaving gaps when the wood later shrank!

Probably would not have happened if I had used a rigid glue, but provides a good argument for sealing any wood going into a model.  Especially on a flat car, where there is little stiffness to prevent an expanding deck from bowing the frame.

 John Stutz 

Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
...  C of E between different materials might not seem a lot on paper but in the real world can create destruction.


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Climax@...
 

Next time I go I am not only taking my I-Pad. but a measuring tape, note pad, and lots of note paper to record notes and stuff on. 

 

 

 

Dave, it's important to note that South Park City is a museum and not an amusement park. And all of the buildings are original ones from Park County (aka South Park), land of the C&S and Como.
 
It's a great place to visit if you want to see how people lived circa 1900.  Most things for the building still have the correct furniture and original items, such as the houses and drug store and general store etc.
 
Mike Conder

 


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Climax@...
 

Snall diameter welding rod is great for slipping between wooden beams under the floor.  It is still and if you get the right kind heavy too.

 

 

 

 

John,

Rough it may be but more than accurate in this case. Thank you. Flat cars are challenging. I built three PSC D&RGW 6500's thinking that the side sheets would prevent warping. I was wrong, they warped. I recently bought a D&RGW 6200 3-d print out. Looks great but the designer stresses it will warp unless reinforced with something like welding rods. Plus the weight issue of course.

I would avoid Jim's lamimate for precisely the reason you state, C of E between different materials might not seem a lot on paper but in the real world can create destruction.

Mark K

 


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Climax@...
 

Campbell's, who don't get me wrong made great kits, bought out Timberline and eliminated a lot of the models and castings.  I somehow managed to get full cards of the different casstings over the years and have fun with them.  They are more to scale than the Campbell thick castings.  They are more like Grandt Line castings.Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Apr 10, 2022 2:39 PM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

 

On the subject of fla car weights... I picked up some 1/32" lead sheet material a year ago with the thought of making subfloors out of it for flat cars. I haven't gotten around to trying it yet. Somebody on group.io had mentioned that trick.... 

Dave, Timberline kits will be replacing several of the scenery card models as they get built. I have a bunch of them too, as well as a few Tmberline falsefront kits for the backdrop....... Definitely a fan of them.
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

 


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Climax@...
 

Yup, I have been there but only for an hour as I just stumbled up on it.  Being that I am in Florida it takes quite a drive to get there.  I am also a Mason and did go up to the lodge room over the drug store.  It was great.  I want to drag my buddy with me to back and explore more, take wads of pictures and even make models of a lot of the buiildings.  Since I model the interiors and light buildigns up with #402Leds I will be able to capture a lot of realism.  Perhaps my most fun is designing removable roofs that don't look removable and don't leak light either.  Although not a well known stop on the tour of the SW it should be one for sure with a whole day dedicated to it.

Dave

 

Dave, it's important to note that South Park City is a museum and not an amusement park. And all of the buildings are original ones from Park County (aka South Park), land of the C&S and Como.
 
It's a great place to visit if you want to see how people lived circa 1900.  Most things for the building still have the correct furniture and original items, such as the houses and drug store and general store etc.
 
Mike Conder

 


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Mike Conder
 

Dave, it's important to note that South Park City is a museum and not an amusement park. And all of the buildings are original ones from Park County (aka South Park), land of the C&S and Como.

It's a great place to visit if you want to see how people lived circa 1900.  Most things for the building still have the correct furniture and original items, such as the houses and drug store and general store etc.

Mike Conder


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Climax@...
 

I needed some thin sheet lead for weights and for making coal chutes etc. so I found a leaded roof vent cover in a home constriction site and have been using it for nearly 15 years cutting off chunks of it, rolling it flat, using an xacto knife to layout my cuts and then using a metal sheer on it.  I will have lead in my, er on my workbench for the rest of my life and this was scrap left over from a construction site.  It makes nice strips when cut, just got to uncurl it and tap it flat again before poking in between beams.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Apr 10, 2022 3:42 PM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

 

I’ve made both gons and flats with scribed lead sheet for floors. I used it with a Grandt wheel & tie car and some PSC 6500 flats with no problems at all. Just make sure it’s thin enough to do the job properly.

Mick

______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!

 


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Mick Moignard
 

I’ve made both gons and flats with scribed lead sheet for floors. I used it with a Grandt wheel & tie car and some PSC 6500 flats with no problems at all. Just make sure it’s thin enough to do the job properly.

Mick

______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Rio Grande
 

Thank you. Your scene is looking nice. It will look cool with the train going through town.


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Mark Lewis
 

Brian,

Where do you source the paper/card structures that you are using for place holder models?

Mark Lewis

Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Brian Kopp
 

On the subject of fla car weights... I picked up some 1/32" lead sheet material a year ago with the thought of making subfloors out of it for flat cars. I haven't gotten around to trying it yet. Somebody on group.io had mentioned that trick.... 

Dave, Timberline kits will be replacing several of the scenery card models as they get built. I have a bunch of them too, as well as a few Tmberline falsefront kits for the backdrop....... Definitely a fan of them.
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Mark Kasprowicz
 

John,

Rough it may be but more than accurate in this case. Thank you. Flat cars are challenging. I built three PSC D&RGW 6500's thinking that the side sheets would prevent warping. I was wrong, they warped. I recently bought a D&RGW 6200 3-d print out. Looks great but the designer stresses it will warp unless reinforced with something like welding rods. Plus the weight issue of course.

I would avoid Jim's lamimate for precisely the reason you state, C of E between different materials might not seem a lot on paper but in the real world can create destruction.

Mark K


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

John Stutz
 

Mark

For close approximate metric to imperial conversion, consider 1mm to be 0.040", instead of 0.03937".   The result is only 1.6% oversize.  This gives 1m ~= 40", or 3m ~= 10'.  Very convenient for rough conversions.

Regarding flat car weights, I recall a Gazette article by Jim Vail on scratch building flat cars of wood, where he started with a  brass sheet cut to fit between the side and end sills.  Varying the thickness allows a range of weights, and if 1/32" (0.8mm) or over,  you have a flat car that will stay flat until stepped upon. 

But not applicable to most kits.  And possibly subject to differences in the thermal and humidity expansion coefficients of brass and wood.  It might be best to leave the brass sheet slightly loose, so it's free to expand and contract without stressing the wood, by caging it between the wood car frame and deck.  Perhaps rubber cement it to the side sills for an inch or so at the middle?

John Stutz

On April 10, 2022 6:58 AM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:

Or tungsten welding rod which adds a little more weight. 1.6mm (not sure about the Imperial equivalent) fits between the center sills of RailLine cars. Not cheap and not easy to cut either but an inconspicuous weight adder.

Mark K


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car - What I'm Working On

Mark Lewis
 

Glenn,

Thanks for your quick reply and information. 

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car - What I'm Working On

Glenn Butcher
 

Bill, I'll be very interested in what your 6k printer can do.  


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car - What I'm Working On

Glenn Butcher
 

Yes, HO1:87 on both counts.

Here's the part design, 63 lines of OpenSCAD code.  All the dimensions are actual inches, for an HO scale part.  Still need to put in the piping interfaces and the nut-job on the crown.  I'll also print the mounting bracket, but I think I'll do the piping in some sort of soft-metal wire.


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

Climax@...
 

The structures remind me a lot of the old TImberlne Scale Models pre Campbell buy out.  I have the entire Timberline Kit line that I use as patterns once in a while.  I also have their casting which were much finer than the Campbell line and a lot more variety.  Some of the tall window and other detail castings have never been reproduced by anyone.  In addition they had a kit which if you purchased 4 of their regular kits they would send you for free.  It was a wooden turntable kit.  I also have that.  When I was a young teen back in 1962/3 I was purchasing those kits, which were ahead of their time by at least 20-30 years, and were based off "real building".  It kind of reminded me of the wood building town that was made of old building brought together south west of Denver Coloriado.  It was never a real town but the buildings are open with full interiors and even has a Masonic Lodge over the Drug Store.  I found it totally by chance on a drive. "On the edge of Fairplay lies South Park City, an extraordinary museum with 40 historic buildings. It was created in the late 1950s by a group of citizens concerned that the old mining and ghost towns of Park County were being dismantled and destroyed. The group recreated an 1800s gold mining town. Buildings were brought in from the high gulches of the Mosquito Range and from mining towns such as Alma, Leavick, Buckskin Joe and Montgomery. Most of these buildings showcase an array of period furnishings and equipment, and tours take you back in time to South Park's early days".  This is a must for anyone who is building scale old west or mining period modeling.

 

Dave

 

----Original Message-----

From: <HOn3@groups.io>
Sent: Apr 10, 2022 9:41 AM
To: <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car

 

Boy that wheel and tie car looks great!

I have been building some place holder card models for scenery....


--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

 


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car - What I'm Working On

Mark Lewis
 

Glenn,

The 168 project is in HO scale, correct? And the print shown is also in 1:87 scale?
VERY Impressive!!

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


Re: D&RGW Wheel & Tie Car - What I'm Working On

Bill Lugg
 

Quite impressive!  I have high hopes for the Anycubic 6K printer I just
unboxed a couple of days ago after seeing your results.

Bill Lugg

On 4/10/22 07:59, Glenn Butcher wrote:
What’s everyone else working on?
Just printed the first part of my D&RG #168 project, a rough version
of the compressor.  I was particularly worried about how a 4K resin
printer would resolve the fins on the cylinder; they show up just
fine, although the white in the gaps is due to my failure to
completely dry the part after washing.  I now feel confident to add
other details, as I know they'll show up.  Here's a pic, part posed on
1/4" graph paper:

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