Re: Goose Remotor-regear


martin feldwick
 

My Con Cor goose is very quiet andsmooth .I was sorprised .

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 at 16:35, Scale Brass Mechanic <scalebrassmech@...> wrote:
No, but I am using Nigel Lawton belt drive. The spur gears are way to noisy. ūüĎćūüöā

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 9:26 AM bassb04011 <fishingmaine@...> wrote:
Had anyone repowered a brass Lambert Pierce Arrow Goose with a Concor mechanism? 
Thanks
Brian 


On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...> wrote:

ÔĽŅHi Dale,

I think the difference in frame spacing is down to the wheel width. The ones on the West Side model are quite thick, probably to address track standards 50-60 years ago. I've been using axle hung gearboxes for almost 20 years, along with UK worms, gears, and flywheels, which are usually located on their axles with grub screws rather than friction or glue fixed. Much easier to work with. One issue with carrier gear(s) in some of the designs is noise. The other is that they are scaled for 4mm, moving down to 3.5mm has its disadvatages, as does trying to get them inside what are in effect N scale frames. Back when UK N scale locomotives (and UK N scale is bigger than US N scale) had frames a chassis-fixed motor drove an axle gear. The mounting frames for the motors are still available. 

At some point I will need some Moguls, as nice as the T-12 is the Alberta narrow gauge companies never had any 4-6-0 locomotives. Equal mix of freight and passenger traffic driver diameters.

Yes, pity about the Hollywood Factory. I had plans for a couple, never got around to ordering them before he closed. 

Nigel

On Thursday, September 30, 2021, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Nigel,
You peaked my interest. So I pulled out one of my T-12's and measured it. I concur with your numbers... mostly. All three of my T-21's are Balboa versions. So my numbers deviate ever so slightly from yours. Like the width between my frames is 6.07mm instead of the 5.42mm that yours has. I prefer the Balboa version because they have brass driver centers. Also because they are so old, the asking price has been lower than the Westside version. Both versions were made by MICRO CAST MIZUNO, so there is very little difference between the two runs. Not many people are aware of that these days. The Balboa imports were made in 1968 and '69. 600 were made in '68 but no clear numbers for the '69 run but, probably in the range of the same quantity. I have copies from both runs. no difference in them whatsoever save for one. One of them has a sheet metal cab instead of a wood panel version. The Westside version was imported in 1975 with 950 copies. So there are at least conservatively speaking, 1950 of these out there somewhere.

The HL drive systems sound very interesting. The same with the other Brit products. It's a real shame we lost the Australian guy's products. I was going to try some Bull Ants for a self propelled rail car like the Aspen Branch machine. Only in narrow gauge. If I had known about all these drive products 40 years ago I might have gone that route. Be that as it may, I'm happy with the drive solution I came up with and it's flexibility. 

So, Do you have Jerry Day's brand new book on the T-12? It's a very nice reference for these engines.

Regards,
Dale




On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 8:23 PM Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...> wrote:

Hi Dale,

Already considered that (and have done it before on some white metal kits). The motor in the boiler, gear train to the driving axle. The other way is to simply move the axle gear one axle forward. Use a NWSL gearbox, or a frame-mounted motor.holder. Needs some boiler work and chassis plate work. Then again, it's easier just to move the wheels and axles and keep the quartering intact (and the insulation on the insulated wheels).

Using an HL axle hung gearbox is a no-go without some frame milling. I had it apart this evening, the distance between the inside face of the frames is
5.42mm The narrowest one that HL does needs 6.3mm. The frames are 0.8mm thick, which means taking off some 0.36-0.40mm from the inside of each side. Still leaves 17 thou' frames. And the axles look like they could be 2.4mm in diameter. Need to check that anyway. HL gearboxes are designed for UK 1/8"  or 2mm axles.

The KTM motor is interesting. 5 poles, with a 2.4mm shaft for the worm. The brass worm, intermediate nylon gear, and brass axle gear show absolutely no signs of wear (or oil for that matter). I don't think this one has had anything but a dry test run (as recommended by WestSide). I certainly don't need a new gear set. If the KTM motor is removed that leaves about 16mm for a motor unless the driven axle is moved forward.

I found that Mashima Motor. Way too big, it's a 16-22, longer than the KTM motor. Shame to put it on eBay. I do have some short open-frame Mashimas, so that's another thing to look at. If I move the driven axle that might give enough space for the big Mashima. Which would be nice, as it's only had some 30 minutes of use. I would need to sleeve the drive shafts from 2 to 2.4mm Otherwise, use as is with one of the shorter open frame motors.

Nigel

Nigel

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:04 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Nigel,

No problem. You know if you find that your motor of choice doesn't fit in the cab the way you would like it to. You might give a thought to putting it in the opposite direction. That's what I am doing with all my HOn3 C-Class and T-12's.

Dale

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 4:13 PM Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...> wrote:
Hi Dale,

Thanks.  Nice to know somebody is doing this.

I know HL products well, as well as other axle mounted gearboxes from Markits, Branchlines, and Alan Gibson (no longer available) from my OO/EM and On30 builds. I have a box of these with motors and flywheels. I had a look at the HL specifications again, milling of the frames is required. Same for Markits. 

The current motor is doing about a foot a minute (albeit with a lot of cogging) at around 3.5v DC. 

I shall do some measuring tonight and see what space is available. My mill went when we downsized, and I think the  most pressing need is for a slim flywheel, as it will have to go on the drive shaft. 

Never gel

On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, Scale Brass Mechanic <scalebrassmech@...> wrote:
Dale Buxton, howdy. I have been doing re-motor, re-gear to brass HOn3 for a decade now for me as well as over 100 clients, with no problems. Been using whatever motor, Mashima, Faulhaber, Maxon, fits the space requirements and $ the client wants to spend. The gearboxes I have found works real well, comes in compound ratios as high as 36:1 & as low as 100;1, are the fold up nickle silver from Chris Gibbon @ High Level. I also have mill and lathe and most installs do need frame milling. But at a creeping 6 inches in 2 minutes on throttle setting 1. Very nice control. Just saying... ūüĎćūüöā
Fuzzy for Scale Brass Mechanic 

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:36 AM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Mark,
Yes good news I suppose. But, Seffen doesn't seem to be very active these days. But, these guys are very active!

SB Modellbau and their companion Faulhaber page (Glockenankermotorshop) that means "bell armature motor shop". Prices are for new drives and motors at current Euro Dollar prices.

They are in Germany and being in the EU is a major plus in my book. They have a newsletter on new conversions and price changes. So here is their contact info.

sb modellbau

Ilzweg 4

D-82140 OlchingIhr 

Ansprechpartner: Herr Pierre Bussjäger

Telefon: 0049-8142-12776

Telefax: 0049-8142-41171

E-Mail: info@...

Ust-ID: DE 244400663

Steur-Nr. 208/81367

I found these guys a few years before Eldon passed and I've been using them ever since I found them. I liked Eldon. But, he had a habit of sending you stuff you didn't ask for along with your order. I think a lot of times it was just to get it out of his inventory. Kind of annoying if you ask me. Last order he sent me two burned out motors I didn't order. WTF?


Virtually no one I know does regear and remotor work to HOn3 like I do or am willing to do.What can I say. I like to tinker on my lathe and milling machines. My drives are a faulhaber of one specific size with a gearhead of one specific ratio mated to basically a hybrid of a Grandt and a HobbyTown drive. But, my drives are quiet and powerful. The nice thing is with my drive system, everything I own either now has or will have the exact same gear ratio. No major speed matching trials with JMRI or whatever DCC programming system. 

It's just getting hard to find the gears for them nowadays. I may resort to 3D printing these gears eventually.

Dale




On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 12:48 AM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
Dale,

Good news (I hope!). Locodoc has retired and Eldon Shirey aka Motorman has passed and with him great source of motors. So getting that sort of help is getting very scarce.

Mark

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