Re: coreless motors again plus C-18 tender origin

Lawrence Wisniewski <lwreno@...>

I spent some time this morning trying to figure out this musical chairs game involving tenders on 318, 340, and 346.  I used on line sources mostly, confirming some stuff via Grandt's motive power books.  Sources of model photos included Google image searches and the collection.  Other photo's from Brass Trains past sales can be accessed via links on the Goggle image search results.  Thanks to the efforts of  Dale Buxton,  the use of 340's  tender on 318 in the very early 1950's was confirmed via Steve Swanson and I ran accross a photo dated 1950 that confirmed it as well.  So that piece of info is secure.  Now, what exactly happened when Key did thier first run 318?  I had heard that story of the misidentification at the Colorado museum before, and photos of the 346  release do suggest that the 318's tender was behind that engine.    However, all the photos of the 318 release that have the obvious C-19 tender show a straight sided tender body with steel sheet continued upwards around the coal bunker ala 340.  346's tender, on the other hand, shows a flanged top edge along the entire side length with no metal continuation around the coal bunker.  There are also a couple of apparent right angles in the tender profile that also suggest 340.  I couldn't find any early Colorado Railroad Museum photos that established what was on 318 when it was purchased by the museum.  Since it spent a lot of time in pieces outside, those photos may take some real work to uncover.  However, I did run across one photo of the recent cosmetic rebuild and the tender sides still have the 340 like profile.  I didn't run into any photos showing the tender present at Knot's Berry Farm and I don't know much about how they have dealt with their two C-19's over the years.  Maybe if anyone has those photos they could let us know what they show.  In conclusion, it appears to me that 340's tender was probably on the first 318 Key released and perhaps reflects plans drawn from it's 1950 configuration.  The 346 release probably has the 318 tender following the museum swap.  Both stories concerning the origin of the Great Tender Swap have true elements, but neither is the complete truth.  Maybe someone else might have information that would further our understanding. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Wisniewski via <lwreno@...>
To: <>
Sent: Fri, May 15, 2020 12:22 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again

You may be right and probably are.  I stayed away from those early Key engines because it looked like they had used little kids to do the soldering on them and so on.  I need to refresh my memory and look at some old photos again.  The story about the 318 derailment problem and how it was solved does exist, but I really can't recall whether it was Norwood or Richardson that authored it.  It was part of some article or chapter written on Ouray branch lore.  Off the top of my head, Grandt's volumes on motive power do contain late Ouray branch photos of the 318 with a C-19 tender on it.  Well, another excuse to let the lawn mowing go for another day..  

-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Moignard <mick@...>
Sent: Fri, May 15, 2020 6:25 am
Subject: Re: [HOn3] coreless motors again


I think the Key tender screwup was 318/346, not 318/340. The story I heard was that the Key team turned up at the CRRM to measure the locos one day, but on the previous steaming of 346 the tender leaked, so  they'd swapped tenders with 318, and the measuring team never noticed.  So the two models were made each with the other tender - that was for the first runs, the one where the only C-18 they did was the 318, rigid frame and with the 346 tender.  One of those was the first brass loco I bought, way back in about 1978 when they first appeared. I still have it, but in deference mostly to its poor running, and that tender, it's on the shelf and likely to stay there.

Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard
The week may start M,T but it always ends up WTF!

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