Re: C-25 width

John Stutz

Regarding the five C-25 equivalent engines: These were not exact copies of CR #103, and that engine was twice severely modified by the D&RG, first with a an extended cab and later with a near standard cab moved back to enclose the backhead.   The last is the familiar version that we see modeled.  BLW practice with OF 2-8-0s was to place the cab forward, with the backhead extending about 18" behind the cab wall, and this was done on all six as built.  There were also differences in the auxiliaries, particularly air tank locations.  I believe that erection drawings of the two Shannon Arizona engines, and the Q&TL version, are available from the DeGolyer Library Special Collections at Southern Methodist University.

Regarding OF engine counterweights:  BLW practice prior to about 1902 was to use simple cranks with conventional counterweights on the drivers.  The K-27s were built during a transition period, with counterweights on both the driver centers and the cranks.  After about 1904, the full counterweight was put on the cranks.  The dated decision is recorded in a BLW Drawing Office "Bible" specifying design standards, and currently in the Stanford University Library's Special Collections.  As the K-28s demonstrate, ALCo continued to put side rod counterweights on the driver centers, and only provided crank counterweights for the main rods. 

Total North American production of outside framed 2-8-0s ran to about 300 engines, almost all exported.  One large scale user was the 30" gauge FC Antofagasta and Bolivia, which once had 25 each from BLW and ALCo, plus plate framed versions from British builders.

John Stutz

On 5/25/2019 1:17 AM, roundbell via Groups.Io wrote:
There is still a C-25 in existence. After Baldwin built the Crystal River engines They used the plans for Crystal River RR Co. #103 ( 10-30Eplan 7  Jan 1903 to build 5 more 3' engines. The last one was built in Dec. 1912 for the Quincy Mining Co. as # 6 and is on display at the Quincy Mine Hoist Museum ( a National Park Service operation ) at Quincy, Michigan on the Upper Peninsula. You can visit and measure it and they sell a book that has scale plans of all their engines and many other pieces of their equipment. All engines built to the same Baldwin plan are basically identical, in this case all the locos had the same dimensions but in this case #103 had wheel counterweights cast as part of the wheel centers where the later 5 had the counterweights outside the frames as part of the crankpin throws. It would be easy to double check all dimensions.  Wayne Weiss

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...>
To: HOn3 <>
Sent: Mon, May 20, 2019 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37

I know the 2-8-0's are pretty wide, but what about the C-21's and the C-25?  Were they also wider?

Sure wish they would have survived, not may outside-frame 20=-8-0's are around anymore.  Is the WPY loco that Stathi is rebuilding a 2-8-0?

Mike Conder

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:59 AM Earl Knoob <earlk489@...> wrote:
Most outside framed 3 foot gauge locomotives are actually wider than similar sized standard gauge ones -  by about a foot.  K27's are wider than a K36-37.

From: <> on behalf of Ray <rayhon3@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [HOn3] K-36 and K-37
I guess I am stating the obvious, but you must use a standard gauge NMRA clearance gauge for K-37s.

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