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Does "everybody" know?


Ken Clark
 

Recently I was admonished on another group when I informed a modeler that a particular steam locomotive was seriously oversized and that he could have potential problems using protypically correct structures and facilties in his layout design.
The reply was that everyone knows that the PFM Sierra 2-6-6-2 is oversize and that it was old news. I've been following logging railroads since the 1960's, back then I always wanted a PFM Shay and a Sierra #38. It took another 25 years before I was able to own either one. Since then I have owned several versions. Knowledgeable friends advised buying the Sierra #38 models that had the roller underneath the boiler for transferring weight to the front engine. They didn't mention the size disparity, however they were quick to mention that my WSM Heisler #3 was oversize. The much larger PFM (and AHM copies) Heislers were not discussed.
About this time I acquired a NWSL Weyerhaeuser #201 2-8-8-2 model and set about to restore it to operating condition. I learned how the prototype was an enlarged version of the 2-6-6-2 mallets (like the Sierra that Weyerhaeuser had originally purchased), sharing common mechanical parts with two extra sets of drivers. A little later I acquired a Sierra #38 and happened to notice that it was as big as the #201. Slowly the facts and observations were pieced together and Irealized something was wrong. The Sierra tender should be the same size as the #201's but was actually bigger. Finally I measured the #38s drivers, nominally 56/57 scale inches, however the #201 had 51" drivers. The protypes had the same size drivers. The PFM model used drivers that were at least 10% oversize and the builder simply expanded the rest of the model to accomodate. For other prototypes I've found that driver size off by a couple of inches, or driver spacing expanded to accomodate oversized flanges, can ruin a model's appearance and value to me. Thus the ethical dilemna, should I tell potential buyers or just assume, "That everyone knows..."

I host a website where I list models for sale, historical photos of Shasta Springs Resort, and repowering guides for brass models. Is there a need for a web page listing HO Steam models that are significantly out of scale? Or perhaps that have a significant deficiency that might reduce their value to a potential buyer? As an example, the Alco Models SP Mt-2s had very bad gearboxes, making them poor runners, installing a better gearbox makes them exceptional runners. Is such inforamtion useful?

ken clark


John Hagen
 

No reason to admonish anyone for informing someone on factual matters. While many members of a particular group may be aware of something such as this (I wasn't, BTW) any group that is healthy is adding members on a regular basis. These new members may very be newer people to the hobby and are LOOKING for such information.

Frankly I think you were doing a service when mentioning this.

John Hagen

--- In HOsteam@..., "sp4149" <kenrclark@...> wrote:

Recently I was admonished on another group when I informed a modeler that a particular steam locomotive was seriously oversized and that he could have potential problems using protypically correct structures and facilties in his layout design.
The reply was that everyone knows that the PFM Sierra 2-6-6-2 is oversize and that it was old news. I've been following logging railroads since the 1960's, back then I always wanted a PFM Shay and a Sierra #38. It took another 25 years before I was able to own either one. Since then I have owned several versions. Knowledgeable friends advised buying the Sierra #38 models that had the roller underneath the boiler for transferring weight to the front engine. They didn't mention the size disparity, however they were quick to mention that my WSM Heisler #3 was oversize. The much larger PFM (and AHM copies) Heislers were not discussed.
About this time I acquired a NWSL Weyerhaeuser #201 2-8-8-2 model and set about to restore it to operating condition. I learned how the prototype was an enlarged version of the 2-6-6-2 mallets (like the Sierra that Weyerhaeuser had originally purchased), sharing common mechanical parts with two extra sets of drivers. A little later I acquired a Sierra #38 and happened to notice that it was as big as the #201. Slowly the facts and observations were pieced together and Irealized something was wrong. The Sierra tender should be the same size as the #201's but was actually bigger. Finally I measured the #38s drivers, nominally 56/57 scale inches, however the #201 had 51" drivers. The protypes had the same size drivers. The PFM model used drivers that were at least 10% oversize and the builder simply expanded the rest of the model to accomodate. For other prototypes I've found that driver size off by a couple of inches, or driver spacing expanded to accomodate oversized flanges, can ruin a model's appearance and value to me. Thus the ethical dilemna, should I tell potential buyers or just assume, "That everyone knows..."

I host a website where I list models for sale, historical photos of Shasta Springs Resort, and repowering guides for brass models. Is there a need for a web page listing HO Steam models that are significantly out of scale? Or perhaps that have a significant deficiency that might reduce their value to a potential buyer? As an example, the Alco Models SP Mt-2s had very bad gearboxes, making them poor runners, installing a better gearbox makes them exceptional runners. Is such inforamtion useful?

ken clark


Jack Herris <jherris@...>
 

Dick Truesdale, owner of Westside, told me what happened on one loco he had a Japanese company make, and it may have been this one. In any case, Dick took a yardstick with him and had many photos taken of the loco with the yardstick in the picture for an accurate length measurement. He then sent the photos to his Japanese builder to make drawings and then make the models. Being on the metric system, the Japanese naturally thought the yardstick was a meter stick! A yard is 36"; a meter is 39.37", or about 10% longer, and that is why the loco model came out 10% too large. By the time Dick found out, the models were already built.

Jack Herris