Date   

Re: [HOsteam] How black is black?

Tom Knowles <ncstl@...>
 

Yes, even black has nuances just like all the other colors. Some of the
other lists I'm on get into huge disagreements about colors, and I say if it
hit you eye they way it should, then it's right. Weather, and light and
viewing angles and reflections (blue sky!) all play their part in the
perception of color. For locomotive black, it depends on what the status of
the loco is, but I always add a substantial amount of red to the mix to
"warm up" the appearance. As for dead flat, I always insisted on painting
dead flat, then decaling, then weather (if required/desired) followed by
dullcote. My results were usually satisfactory. But now, the press urges us
to paint glossy, then do all the rest. I haven't tried this yet except on an
E-8 painted with acrylics. I didn't really like the way the paint "sat" on
the surface, and I had trouble getting it to wet the surface of a brass
engine I tried to paint with it. I have turned from the desire to see
engines and passenger cars dead flat and cruddy to seeing a little shine in
the coat. I even have some that are "fresh out of the shop" in appearance,
but a full gloss is too toy-like to my eye.

What I recommend to you is any clear-coat that is compatible chemically with
the previous coat that gives only a little shine. A semi-gloss, if you will.
You might also try a little light hand buffing of your flat-painted model to
bring out a little sheen. This is automatically attained with overspray of
dullcote over gloss as the dullcote never seems to go dead flat over gloss.
Dead flat weathering picks up an unrealistic shine unless applied last. Soot
in particular is dead flat as is sand residue on the drivers and
underpinnings. I have wondered about masking a few of my tenders in such a
way as to show the water level in them by suggesting a different sheen to
the lower part due to condensation on the sides just where the water
actually is. Anyone tried this?

Have you checked out the MRR part of my web site yet?

Tom Knowles
website: http://members.tripod.com/tomknowles/index.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: Starr, David <david.starr@analog.com>
To: <hosteam@egroups.com>; <BM_RR@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:15 AM
Subject: [HOsteam] How black is black?


Started painting a Mantua Pacific this week. Soap and water wash
followed
by a pickling bath, and then a coat of dark gray auto primer. The primer
is
sticking well and is about the right shade, a very dark gray, looks black
under indoor lights. However, as primer's do, its VERY flat, not a hint of
shine anywhere. Most of the time this makes the locomotive look a bit
sooty and cindery and I am happy with the effect.
This locomotive has been slightly kitbashed to make it look like a B&M
P4. These were the pride of the B&M and kept in pretty good condition.
Looking through 6 or 8 photo's in my two B&M books, the P4's are always
clean, neatly painted and the paint shows a bit of gloss in every photo.
I'm beginning to think of sealing the decals on with a clear glossy
topcoat
to get a little bit of shine into the paint. Has anyone tried this? Any
other finishing hints and kinks for steam loco paint that anyone cares to
share?


Keeping the memory of steam alive!


Re: [HOsteam] How black is black?

George Gilbert <grgilbert@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Starr, David" <david.starr@analog.com>
To: <hosteam@egroups.com>; <BM_RR@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 1:15 PM
Subject: [HOsteam] How black is black?


....I'm beginning to think of sealing the decals on with a clear glossy
topcoat
to get a little bit of shine into the paint. Has anyone tried this? Any
other finishing hints and kinks for steam loco paint that anyone cares to
share?


Keeping the memory of steam alive!

Yes I have used that very technique of overspraying the decals with gloss. I
first paint the entire model with a gloss finish, apply decals, then over
spray again with gloss. Then if a dull finish is needed overspray all with
clear flat.

Read my article in this and the next issue of Light Iron Digest for more on
my painting techniques. Definitely not the last word on painting but one
modeler's approach.

George Gilbert


Re: [HOsteam] How black is black?

f-v-h@...
 

Unless you're using dry transfers apply a gloss coat BEFORE you
decal. If you don't, they will silver no matter how much setting
solution you use, and the carrier film will be extremely obvious.
You might try this; gloss coat, decal, then gloss again. Follow
with a FOG (I.E. VERY light) overspray of the original color. This will
tone down the lettering and restore the look you want. When you think
that just a little more will do it STOP!!! Works for me. This is one
place where "Less is more" is valid advice.
FH


How black is black?

Starr, David <david.starr@...>
 

Started painting a Mantua Pacific this week. Soap and water wash followed
by a pickling bath, and then a coat of dark gray auto primer. The primer is
sticking well and is about the right shade, a very dark gray, looks black
under indoor lights. However, as primer's do, its VERY flat, not a hint of
shine anywhere. Most of the time this makes the locomotive look a bit
sooty and cindery and I am happy with the effect.
This locomotive has been slightly kitbashed to make it look like a B&M
P4. These were the pride of the B&M and kept in pretty good condition.
Looking through 6 or 8 photo's in my two B&M books, the P4's are always
clean, neatly painted and the paint shows a bit of gloss in every photo.
I'm beginning to think of sealing the decals on with a clear glossy topcoat
to get a little bit of shine into the paint. Has anyone tried this? Any
other finishing hints and kinks for steam loco paint that anyone cares to
share?


Re: [HOsteam] Superdetailing Mantua Steamers

DLewis0163@...
 

The bell will be mounted in the same spot, but will have live steam piping
about 2 feet towards the cab, then piercing through the lagging. This is an
automatic steam ringer, not a pull cord bell. I did some careful clean-up
filing of the casting, then painted the "harp" a deep gunmetal (looks like
black color wet with condensed steam) and left the bell a polished brass.
Don


Re: [HOsteam] Superdetailing Mantua Steamers

Starr, David <david.starr@...>
 

Interesting. You did the tender trucks in "rust" (reddish) giving a bit of
contrast to the otherwise black & gray locomotive? I've been thinking that
is the way to go but I cannot remember seeing models done that way. Where
did you mount the new bell? Same place as stock, or did you move it
somewhere else?
I got the Mantua Pacific back together last night. I moved the bell from
top of boiler to the smokebox front to give a more B&M look, added
classification lamps, a steam generator casting, spoked drivers, and added
those B&M locomotive nameplates along the sides. You might have heard the
story, for a publicity stunt the railroad ran a "name that locomotive"
contest for school children. The kid that submitted a winning name got his
name on the engine too. Both names went on a fancy nameplate along the
running boards.
Anyhow, it's painting time. I guess I have to take the engine apart to
get the paint to cover the frame properly and not get paint all over the
drive rods, motor and gears. I'm thinking of washing in soap & water,
followed by pickling in vinegar, followed by a coat of dark gray auto
primer. I do hope the CA adhesive doesn't come apart from either the water
or the vinegar.

----------
From: DLewis0163@aol.com[SMTP:DLewis0163@aol.com]
Reply To: HOsteam@egroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 6:38 PM
To: HOsteam@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [HOsteam] Superdetailing Mantua Steamers

I had the same problem getting the printed road name off, so I just used
three light coats of dilute grimy black in my airbrush, and after
decalling
for the LAMEDEER SHORTLINE RAILWAY, weathered the engine via airbrush with

grimy black, grey, a mist of blue-black, and some light grey on the water-

carring undersidevparts(injectors, tubes, vales,etc.) where water
impurities
encrust things. I airbrushed the running gear and wheels grimy black and
the
underside of the tender trucks with a bit of rust. I'm still working on
it,
but it looks great. I got rid of the horrible bell, installing a great
CalScale casting.
I'll have to clean overspray off the treads and oil the valve train. I'll
take a picture of it and send it to you sometime soon.
Don


Keeping the memory of steam alive!


Re: [HOsteam] Superdetailing Mantua Steamers

DLewis0163@...
 

I had the same problem getting the printed road name off, so I just used
three light coats of dilute grimy black in my airbrush, and after decalling
for the LAMEDEER SHORTLINE RAILWAY, weathered the engine via airbrush with
grimy black, grey, a mist of blue-black, and some light grey on the water-
carring undersidevparts(injectors, tubes, vales,etc.) where water impurities
encrust things. I airbrushed the running gear and wheels grimy black and the
underside of the tender trucks with a bit of rust. I'm still working on it,
but it looks great. I got rid of the horrible bell, installing a great
CalScale casting.
I'll have to clean overspray off the treads and oil the valve train. I'll
take a picture of it and send it to you sometime soon.
Don


[HOsteam] Identify the shay

Ken Clark
 

Recently on eBay I bought a Class B two truck shay, wood cab, straight shack.
It didn't run, so I took it apart and found a large open frame motor,
flywheel and 8 wheel pickup. The motor does not have a name on it. Unlike
my other PFM shays, there is no United nameplate on the bottom. Could this
be a PFM flywheel class B-2 of the mid 50's? It isn't like any of the United
Shays shown in the Art of Brass Vol 2, however it appears to be the same as
the United B-2 Shay of 1955 shown in "PFM - 25 Years of Fine Models", except
with a straight stack. The picture from the ad is at:
http://www.sqdeal2.com/100801-3.JPG

Anyone confirm that it is the 1955-57 United B-2, Note it appears that the
railing on top of the tank has been removed and a block mounted on top of the
tender as an oil bunker.

thanks, ken


Re: [HOsteam] Superdetailing Mantua Steamers

Starr, David <david.starr@...>
 

Don,
I don't have any photos. I suppose I ought to get out the closeup lens
and lights and try my hand at model photography again. Last time I tried
it, I got double shadows from having the fill light a bit too close and un
diffused.
I have a pair of the plastic IHC Moguls. Nice runners. I was able to get
a Kadee coupler into the pilot of one of them after some serious Dremel
work. I found just painting the bright nickel plated tender wheels grimy
black improved the looks a lot.
Mine are a little bit light. If I could find some space inside the
locomotive to add weight I'd do it. I haven't had either locomotive apart
enough to see if there are any nooks or crannies that could accept a bit of
lead.
I changed the road name on one unit. I tried to get the old herald off
the tender with solvaset and a draftsman's electric eraser. I wound up
biting through the paint down to the plastic. However a shot of flat black
spray paint covered up all the sins.

----------
From: DLewis0163@aol.com[SMTP:DLewis0163@aol.com]
Reply To: HOsteam@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 11:14 AM
To: HOsteam@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [HOsteam] Superdetailing Mantua Steamers

I found your posting very interesting and potentially useful, as I am
looking
to replace the pilot on my IMC Mogul (mfrd by Mahano). This is a fine
running
loco, in the Premier Series, but the pilot is diminutive and rides too
high.
Since I continue to be pleased with these new IHC locos, I look to improve

the few flaws. I may try your "fix". Do you have any photos of your work
in
progress?
Don Lewis


Keeping the memory of steam alive!


Re: [HOsteam] Superdetailing Mantua Steamers

DLewis0163@...
 

I found your posting very interesting and potentially useful, as I am looking
to replace the pilot on my IMC Mogul (mfrd by Mahano). This is a fine running
loco, in the Premier Series, but the pilot is diminutive and rides too high.
Since I continue to be pleased with these new IHC locos, I look to improve
the few flaws. I may try your "fix". Do you have any photos of your work in
progress?
Don Lewis


New Spectrum N&W J

Eric Lauterbach
 

At Chicago Show Bachmann announced that it is
upgrading its N&W J to the Spectrum line. When I first
heard this , I was very happy at the thought of having
an accurate model of 611 on my layout. Well I have
learned that Bachmann will not be correcting the
inaccurate boiler on their J which makes it look
undersized and a little on the wimpy side. I have
decided to write Bachmann a letter (not an email)in
hopes of getting them to change thier mind and give
the J a new accurate boiler, along with any other
inaccuracies that exist in the current model. I am
hoping that this email will encourage others of you to
write and that if enough of us write, they will see a
correct J next year.
Thanks,
Eric Lauterbach

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
http://experts.yahoo.com/


Superdetailing Mantua Steamers

Starr, David <david.starr@...>
 

Step one of my Mantua project loco is a success. While I can still find the
part numbers let me explain what can be done to improve the looks of the
Mantua Pacific, and other similar Mantua locomotives. (And, I just HAVE to
brag about how good it looks and how easy it was to do)
The Pacific has a rather un exciting front end made from a single plastic
casting. This one piece of plastic is the pilot, the twin front mounted air
compressors and the twin ladder/steps running from the pilot deck up to the
walkways down each side of the boiler. This casting is secured with a
single screw to the main locomotive frame and is readily removable. It is
not structural, the locomotive runs just fine with the entire front casting
removed.
Calscale PN PI315 is a lovely brass casting of a typical pilot. To make a
pilot deck, I filed a thick piece of brass bar stock to size, (approx. 1/2 *
3/4) drilled it to match the screw hole that held the plastic front end
casting, and soldered the cast pilot to the bar stock piece. A butt joint
soft soldered is plenty strong enough.
The twin air compressors (Calscale kit 2002 or a pair of Type 241
compressors) mount to a ushaped piece of thinner bar stock. The U shaped
air compressor bracket is secured to the pilot deck with 00-80 screws
running into tapped holes. Then, Calscale air compressor shield (PN SH259)
can be soldered onto the aircompressors, for a prototypical look.
For ladders, I was unable to find anything in brass, and making them up
out of shim brass was un attractive. So I used the original Mantua plastic
ladders. I cut and filed away the old front plastic casting until all that
was left was the two ladders and a web of plastic connecting left and right
ladders. This assembly when over the brass air pumps and epoxy glue holds
it in place. The entire new "front end" bolts onto the locomotive in place
of the old plastic casting. With a Kadee #4 in the front coupler pocket,
and a coupler lift bar, it looks pretty good, if I do say so myself.
This superdetail ought to work on any Mantua steamer with the one piece
cast plastic front end.


Re: [HOsteam] Tread plate & related pet peeves

Mike Bauers <mwbauers@...>
 

George Gilbert wrote:

Mike, you make some very good points. And I am delighted to see that you
are working to try and bring the British approach to loco kits to this side
of the pond. Through my own reading of British hobby press and talking with
a few British fellows that I have met, I do understand the nature of their
loco kit market. It is probably the only model for bringing out a
reasonably large variety of steam loco kits.
Thanks,
I'm really just telling what others are doing and what I'm trying
as well. I'm just putting more of the similar processes together
and gradually nudging some interested people to try some of it as
well. I hope to see more small companies appear.

Now about people modeling either now or what they can remember as youths. I
think that has been true, but how will time change that?-- Only those of us
in the over 50 crowd can remember back into the "transition era" ( born in
'46, I was there for the last of the steam era but don't remember it).
Anybody younger certainly will not remember the steam era. So in the future
anyone but the oldtimers who choses to model the steam era is into
historical modeling. It all has to be "experienced" through the history and
literature. I think this makes the earlier eras just as available as say the
'50's.
Just look at all the cute old engines that are still in regular
use today at smaller industries. Once the latest things, they now
are interesting older units that are part of others contemporary memory.

It's darned convenient that they are older units worth modeling.

So maybe in the future we will have people modeling either "now" or some
historical period that they find interesting.
Even now with those older pieces they also see about.

Now about those FED frames. Put me down as interested; I have one of each
4-4-0 and 2-6-0.
My situation as well. Just too darned plain for my tastes. And
when I saw how people can use the sort of coining or embossing
abilities of these little computer controlled mills..... Well, God
must have made all those Railroad line art drawings for a greater
purpose than the publishers of the last 150 years ever dared realize.

best,
Mike Bauers


Re: [HOsteam] Tread plate & related pet peeves

George Gilbert <grgilbert@...>
 

Nope. Outside of brass, don't think you missed any of the HO 4-4-0's.
Considering the 1000's of those locos built over a long history, the
collection of models is pretty poor. And, like you note, some of these are
old designs, poor runners, and/or have too high flanges. The best hope for
some models seems to be as described in Mike Bauers letter about trying to
start a British style loco kit industry.
George Gilbert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Beutel" <fan2472@pacbell.net>
To: <HOsteam@egroups.com>

And think about this? Why does the most popular modeling scale (HO)
have so
very few models of that most common of American steam locos, the 4-4-0 ?
There are:

Bachmann's (two models, not sure what they are based on)
Rivarossi (all based on V&T)
IHC (several based on a V&T prototype and one similar to an SP E-23 by
Cooke.)
Mantua (the General, and let's not forget the Belle of the '80s)

Have I forgotten any?

So at least it's a start. In my opinion, all except the IHC Cooke suffer
from poor electrical contact and could benefit from a flywheel, if only
there were room to put one.

Does anyone have any success stories they could share about improving the
running qualities of 4-4-0's?

Regards,
Thomas Beutel





Keeping the memory of steam alive!


Re: [HOsteam] Tread plate & related pet peeves

George Gilbert <grgilbert@...>
 

Mike, you make some very good points. And I am delighted to see that you
are working to try and bring the British approach to loco kits to this side
of the pond. Through my own reading of British hobby press and talking with
a few British fellows that I have met, I do understand the nature of their
loco kit market. It is probably the only model for bringing out a
reasonably large variety of steam loco kits.

Now about people modeling either now or what they can remember as youths. I
think that has been true, but how will time change that?-- Only those of us
in the over 50 crowd can remember back into the "transition era" ( born in
'46, I was there for the last of the steam era but don't remember it).
Anybody younger certainly will not remember the steam era. So in the future
anyone but the oldtimers who choses to model the steam era is into
historical modeling. It all has to be "experienced" through the history and
literature. I think this makes the earlier eras just as available as say the
'50's.

So maybe in the future we will have people modeling either "now" or some
historical period that they find interesting.

Now about those FED frames. Put me down as interested; I have one of each
4-4-0 and 2-6-0.
George Gilbert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers@execpc.com>
To: <HOsteam@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [HOsteam] Tread plate & related pet peeves


George Gilbert wrote:

Well, didn't mean to doubt the attraction of the steam-diesel transition
era. It was a very interesting railroad era and the only era steam and
diesel could co-exist. I suspect it will always draw a large following.
And modeling the era has resulted in some beautiful layouts.

But what I don't understand is why the earlier eras have drawn so little
interest. The standard guage equipment of Turn of the (19th) Century is
very similiar to narrow guage equipment of that and later eras. And
narrow
guage has certainly developed a strong following.
.......................

You're dealing with the facts that most people model either the
present or something they saw as a youth.

The last big 4-4-0 modeling binge was the 100 year anniversary of
the Civil War, when there was a lot of The General movies and
historical coverage about. This was somewhat followed by the
centennial of the Golden Spike at the end of the 60's as well as
frequent exposure to TV viewers of that glorious post Civil War
train that James West and Atemus Gordon got to use under the
presidential command of then President Grant in the program, Wild,
Wild West.

There were almost no 4-4-0's in HO other than the late 1950 dies
of the 1850's Mantua General and finally some imported plastic
versions of a later 1880 AHM American standard. There was a Grant
(?) boiler conversion for the Mantus from Cary and a very few
brass imports. They were even fewer 4-4-0's available in the
larger scales.

There has been very little exposure of the 4-4-0's to the average
RR modeler over the last couple of decades. That can change. They
were the most numerous of all types of locomotives and performed
every possible type of service. That just needs to be made better known.

I'm of the strong belief that the absolutely huge cost of tooling
for conventional kits is what has restricted the types available
all these years.

I'd like to see and am working to have it come about....... That
low volume castings with primarily etched bodies become better
known in the States. The British Commonwealth has done just this
for that last few decades and instead of just their version of a
cast General, they have several similar mixed media kits of
similar prototypes.

No, not American Standard 4-4-0's, but a rich assortment of their
types of engines. Far more than if they had to produce only with
steel dies to cast their engine kits.

I am currently using the methods at the bottom of the posting to
make several types of 4-4-0 frames from published drawings. Marry
that method with PSC and CalScale castings, custom etching sets
for several types and era's of locomotives, start with frames of
the detail of the Kemtron C-16's and instead of paying a fortune
for one set of dies, we get a vast number of etched body sets to
build around precision, detailed, lost wax and/or etched brass
frames for much less pre production costs.

Yes, 3d and 2d scans to cnc-milled custom parts to precise scale
making master parts to any desired scale. There are also similar
methods to make the etched body shells from computerized pictures.

There should be more smaller types available. There should be much
more of the never before commercially available prototypes on the
scale market. I'm pushing for this. I'm finding several people
that are already doing parts of this, more and more are appearing
each week. I'm almost completely tooled up with specialized
software, two 3d scanners, two desk top prototyping cnc-mills of
differing specialties as well as what I need to make, proof, and
perfect my own etchings. I don't have volume equipment, but I do
have what is needed to make precise master parts for outside duplication.

I can assure you, I am not the only one doing this. Keep asking
for what models you'd like to see produced. The odds are that
several people out there can make it a reality if they can just
fit it in to their plans.

So have another good look at those sweet Cal Scale and PSC domes
and other fittings and start envisioning what you will see more
and more of to use those fine parts.

As for me, I have four distinctly different types of 4-4-0's
already planned to go on those frames. The first thing will be
replacement Kemtron quality frames to replace those crappy FED
4-4-0 and 2-6-0 featureless joke frames. Kits should follow
several months later......

best,
Mike Bauers

--
[Home Computer etching/3d scanning/milling/drawings to models/pics
to drawings/cad? Look over ModelersCad at
http://www.eGroups.com/group/modelerscad]


Keeping the memory of steam alive!


Re: [HOsteam] Tread plate & related pet peeves

Thomas Beutel <fan2472@...>
 


And think about this? Why does the most popular modeling scale (HO) have so
very few models of that most common of American steam locos, the 4-4-0 ?
There are:

Bachmann's (two models, not sure what they are based on)
Rivarossi (all based on V&T)
IHC (several based on a V&T prototype and one similar to an SP E-23 by
Cooke.)
Mantua (the General, and let's not forget the Belle of the '80s)

Have I forgotten any?

So at least it's a start. In my opinion, all except the IHC Cooke suffer
from poor electrical contact and could benefit from a flywheel, if only
there were room to put one.

Does anyone have any success stories they could share about improving the
running qualities of 4-4-0's?

Regards,
Thomas Beutel


Re: [HOsteam] Interest in early steam (was: related pet peeves)

Thomas Beutel <fan2472@...>
 


But what I don't understand is why the earlier eras have drawn so little
interest. The standard guage equipment of Turn of the (19th) Century is
very similiar to narrow guage equipment of that and later eras. And narrow
guage has certainly developed a strong following.
At least at one point, there must have been more interest. In the late 1950s
Aristocraft (Polk Hobbies) imported a wide ranging series of smaller
1860-1890 era steam engines in HO: the 2-4-2 Columbia, several 2-8-0s, an
0-8-0, a 4-2-2 Bicycle, an 0-6-0T named Uncle Tom, a high wheeled all blue
B&O 4-6-0. This was in addition to more 'modern' steam engines of the 1900s,
like a 4-6-0, 2-8-2, and even an 0-6-6-0 mallet.

Every so often one of these shows up on eBay for a fairly reasonable price.
I've been collecting a few of the smaller engines with plans to remotor them
at some point.

In any case, I share your interest in early steam locomotives, but I have to
admit that my railroad will be based in the late 1930's, which is to say,
95% steam and 5% diesel.

Regards,
Thomas Beutel
Redwoods and Pacific RR
http://www.modelsmith.com/thomas/rprr/


Re: Tread plate & related pet peeves

GarnerAF@...
 

In a message dated 10/31/2000 12:16:16 PM Central Standard Time,
HOsteam@egroups.com writes:

<< But what I don't understand is why the earlier eras have drawn so little
interest. >>

I think people have some trouble looking back further than their
grandparents. As time marches on, so the eras modeled seem to move forward.
When I started modeling, I was interested in trains of the 1870's through
1890's. I found little available in commercial models at the time, and have
since moved to the early 1940's. I have found that more models are available
and that research is easier. I still don't find as many models for this
period as I do for the transition period, when many of today's retiring
modelers were kids. Many modelers I now meet have never seen a steam engine
other than in museums or on "railfan" railroads. Their interest falls during
the time they were kids and were awestruck by the powerful diesels!

Each to his own, though I admire the "historian" prototype modeler who is
researching and modeling in the pre-1900's era. Truely, this was a time for
rail barons and the building of a nation.


Re: [HOsteam] Tread plate & related pet peeves

Mike Bauers <mwbauers@...>
 

George Gilbert wrote:

Well, didn't mean to doubt the attraction of the steam-diesel transition
era. It was a very interesting railroad era and the only era steam and
diesel could co-exist. I suspect it will always draw a large following.
And modeling the era has resulted in some beautiful layouts.

But what I don't understand is why the earlier eras have drawn so little
interest. The standard guage equipment of Turn of the (19th) Century is
very similiar to narrow guage equipment of that and later eras. And narrow
guage has certainly developed a strong following.
.......................

You're dealing with the facts that most people model either the
present or something they saw as a youth.

The last big 4-4-0 modeling binge was the 100 year anniversary of
the Civil War, when there was a lot of The General movies and
historical coverage about. This was somewhat followed by the
centennial of the Golden Spike at the end of the 60's as well as
frequent exposure to TV viewers of that glorious post Civil War
train that James West and Atemus Gordon got to use under the
presidential command of then President Grant in the program, Wild,
Wild West.

There were almost no 4-4-0's in HO other than the late 1950 dies
of the 1850's Mantua General and finally some imported plastic
versions of a later 1880 AHM American standard. There was a Grant
(?) boiler conversion for the Mantus from Cary and a very few
brass imports. They were even fewer 4-4-0's available in the
larger scales.

There has been very little exposure of the 4-4-0's to the average
RR modeler over the last couple of decades. That can change. They
were the most numerous of all types of locomotives and performed
every possible type of service. That just needs to be made better known.

I'm of the strong belief that the absolutely huge cost of tooling
for conventional kits is what has restricted the types available
all these years.

I'd like to see and am working to have it come about....... That
low volume castings with primarily etched bodies become better
known in the States. The British Commonwealth has done just this
for that last few decades and instead of just their version of a
cast General, they have several similar mixed media kits of
similar prototypes.

No, not American Standard 4-4-0's, but a rich assortment of their
types of engines. Far more than if they had to produce only with
steel dies to cast their engine kits.

I am currently using the methods at the bottom of the posting to
make several types of 4-4-0 frames from published drawings. Marry
that method with PSC and CalScale castings, custom etching sets
for several types and era's of locomotives, start with frames of
the detail of the Kemtron C-16's and instead of paying a fortune
for one set of dies, we get a vast number of etched body sets to
build around precision, detailed, lost wax and/or etched brass
frames for much less pre production costs.

Yes, 3d and 2d scans to cnc-milled custom parts to precise scale
making master parts to any desired scale. There are also similar
methods to make the etched body shells from computerized pictures.

There should be more smaller types available. There should be much
more of the never before commercially available prototypes on the
scale market. I'm pushing for this. I'm finding several people
that are already doing parts of this, more and more are appearing
each week. I'm almost completely tooled up with specialized
software, two 3d scanners, two desk top prototyping cnc-mills of
differing specialties as well as what I need to make, proof, and
perfect my own etchings. I don't have volume equipment, but I do
have what is needed to make precise master parts for outside duplication.

I can assure you, I am not the only one doing this. Keep asking
for what models you'd like to see produced. The odds are that
several people out there can make it a reality if they can just
fit it in to their plans.

So have another good look at those sweet Cal Scale and PSC domes
and other fittings and start envisioning what you will see more
and more of to use those fine parts.

As for me, I have four distinctly different types of 4-4-0's
already planned to go on those frames. The first thing will be
replacement Kemtron quality frames to replace those crappy FED
4-4-0 and 2-6-0 featureless joke frames. Kits should follow
several months later......

best,
Mike Bauers

--
[Home Computer etching/3d scanning/milling/drawings to models/pics
to drawings/cad? Look over ModelersCad at
http://www.eGroups.com/group/modelerscad]


Re: [HOsteam] Tread plate & related pet peeves

George Gilbert <grgilbert@...>
 

Well, didn't mean to doubt the attraction of the steam-diesel transition
era. It was a very interesting railroad era and the only era steam and
diesel could co-exist. I suspect it will always draw a large following.
And modeling the era has resulted in some beautiful layouts.

But what I don't understand is why the earlier eras have drawn so little
interest. The standard guage equipment of Turn of the (19th) Century is
very similiar to narrow guage equipment of that and later eras. And narrow
guage has certainly developed a strong following.

Also the smaller size of the earlier equipment has some definite advantages
in layout planning. RMC did an interesting comparsion of various eras in a
1960's issue. On a yard in Whit Tower's A&LP they placed the same quantity
of equipment from different eras from 1880 to about 1960. The yard was less
than half filled with the 1880's equipment. It progressively filled as the
era was moved forward till the 1960's equipment completely filled the yard.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arved Grass" <a_grass@hotmail.com>
To: <HOsteam@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [HOsteam] Tread plate & related pet peeves


On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:32:31 -0600, "George Gilbert" <grgilbert@home.com>
writes:

The comment about post 1945 selling best always puzzled me. I have always
thought the earlier eras ( say 1880 to maybe 1920's ) when the steam was
THE
dominant land transporation machine were much more interesting. You move
up
to mid 20th century then trucks and cars and airplanes move to center
stage;
trains just become a nuisance to highway traffic.
Post war modeling allows people to model the steam-diesel transition era.
We also get to have some of the most modern steam locomotives, such as
Lima
Superpower. It also means we can mix heavyweight trains with
streamliners,
and even the introduction of intermodal (a.k.a. TOFC - SP GS-class 4-8-4s
hauling TOFC on "Overnights" for example). And even though road and air
travel flourished, mail and intermediate distance travel was still
predominantly handled by trains.

To each his own, though.

- Arved
Modeling the Southern Pacific, from AC-4s to AC4400CWs.
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