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Re: [HOsteam] Hello I'm new, Loco regear
marshall <zephyr03@...>
Les Grenz wrote:
Sorry, Les - I must've been tired . . . . I didn't have the last part right: *Multiply the travel distance by 720 (12" x 60 min.) to getWRONG! Mutlipy the travel distance by *FIVE* (60 sec divided by 12") tomiles per RPM.* get *FEET* per hour. Multiply that by the peak motor RPM and --> *DIVIDE BY 5280 FEET PER MILE* <-- you have the top speed of the remotored/regeared locomotive in scale miles per hour. I gotta learn to check my work before I hand in the paper <LOL> Marshall
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Re: [HOsteam] Hello I'm new, Loco regear
In a message dated 6/2/00 10:49:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
lesgrenz@hotmail.com writes: << determining motor RPMs >> For HOn3, motor RPM may be the most limiting factor for engine speed. In brass models almost all of the manufacturers seem to have used a gear ratio of around 28:1m the NWSL gearboxes designed to fit HOn3 models typical axle size of 2.4mm also use this gear ratio. Some older Japanese models have axle gears virtually identical to the NWSL gearbox. Unlike standard gauge, the wheel diameter for narrow gauge engines seems to be within a fairly limited range of 36" (C-16) to 44" (K-36), for example. with the same gearboxes and a driver size range of 20% + / -, the big variable in model operations tends to be motor rpm. AS an example, the sunset C-16s and the WSM k-36 used completely different motors but both had 12 volt RPMs around 5,000. By comparison a Sagami 1420 had a 12 volt rpm of 28,000, and a Sagami 1630 (about the strongest, best running Sagami motor for HOn3 use) has a 12 volt rpm of 15,000. Comparing the sunset C-16 mashma motor to a similar sized Sagami 1420 you see that for HOn3 models you can find motor rpms varying by almost 600%, far more than can be oversome by the typical gearbox and driver diameter changes. Unfortunately the coreless 1230 used in the WSM K-36 is pretty gutless and needs the increased gear ratios typically found only in geared (logging) steam engine models. By the way counting teeth on the gears in a model shay, climax or heisler can lead you to a big mistake. For instance the WSM Westside Lumber Co. #3 used two worm/worm gear reduction sets in the gearbox; each worm gear had 15 teeth, I calculated the total gearbox reduction as 225:1 (15x15=225), boy was I wrong. These models used a double spiral worm (instead of the typical single spiral worm), so the gear reduction was only 7.5:1 and the total gearbox was only about 56:1, a big difference. The big problem with small motors, is that some run slow normally and others only because they are underpowered and overloaded by the mechanism. With NWSL motors having published specs, this can be determined, but many of these models have motors for which the importers/builders have not furnished data. A lot of modelers use the trial and error method of motor selection, while others stick to 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it...' ken
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Re: [HOsteam] Hello I'm new, Loco regear
Les Grenz <lesgrenz@...>
From: marshall <zephyr03@swbell.net> Got it! Thanks again Marshall. Regards from Les Grenz & the Queen City of the Rockies. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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Re: [HOsteam] Hello I'm new, Loco regear
marshall <zephyr03@...>
Les Grenz wrote:
Take the motor RPM. Any gear set you are considering will have a fixed (and usually listed) ratio such as 1:31 or 1:17. Divide the motor RPM by the ratio (i.e. 17000 divided by 31) to get driver RPM. Multiply your selected driver diameter by pi (3.1415926etc) to get travel per RPM in inches. Multiply the travel distance by 720 (12" x 60 min.) to get miles per RPM. Multiply that by the peak motor RPM and you have the top speed of the remotored/regeared locomotive in scale miles per hour. Marshall
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Re: [HOsteam] Hello I'm new, Loco regear
Les Grenz <lesgrenz@...>
From: marshall <zephyr03@swbell.net>Marshall - Thanks for the info. Exactly what I needed. Regards from Les Grenz & the Queen City of the Rockies. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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Re: loco regear
eric wolfsbane <wolfsbane@...>
Gear ratios are determined by counting the number of teeth on the driver gear.
SMPH can be determined by the following formula. rpm X driver diameter ---------------------- = SMPH gear ratio X 336 Eric ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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Re: [HOsteam] Re: loco regear
Les Grenz <lesgrenz@...>
From: "eric wolfsbane" <wolfsbane@hotmail.com>Thanks Eric - It's what I needed. Regards from Les Grenz & the Queen City of the Rockies. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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Hello I'm new, Loco regear
Les Grenz <lesgrenz@...>
Greetings - I am new to this list. I model Colorado loosely in HOn3.
I do some loco repair primarily for myself. I would like to know if anyone can refer me to a source for determining motor RPMs, gear ratios, mph, etc. when remotoring. I see a lot of information in the NWSL catalog but not specific formulas. Help anyone. Also are there other sites which may specifically deal with these kind of things. Les
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(No subject)
eric wolfsbane <wolfsbane@...>
Norfolk Southern's Top Ten work rule changes for Conrail Employees
This special Top Ten List comes straight from NS corporate headquarters, located behind Sam Drucker's General Store, Hooterville, North Carolina. The Top Ten changes in work rules expected to most adversely affect former CONRAIL employees: 10. All locomotives must now have gun racks. 9. Instead of meal tickets, train crews will be issued a Coca Cola and a Moon Pie. 8. Train crew headgear must display the "Redman" chewing tobacco logo. 7. All train crews are now required to have a coon dog asleep on the front platform of the locomotive. 6. Each crewmember must put sticker for favorite NASCAR driver in cab windows and an NRA Freedom bumper sticker on the cab nose. 5. Robert E. Lee's birthday now a paid holiday; 4th of July (fall of Vicksburg) a day of mourning. 4. All yards required having at least two inoperable locos on blocks in front of the yard office. 3. Grade crossing whistle signal is now the first 12 notes of "Dixie." 2. All radio transmissions now required to end with "Y'all." And the Number One change to CONRAIL work rules after the NS takeover: 1. Road Foreman of Engines job title changed to Overseer!
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engines modified with tender motors
Arved Grass <a_grass@...>
For those NOT on the Espee mailing list, I thought this might be of
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interest, and spark some discussion on this list. I have to admit, I've always thought of tender drive models as being appropriate for smaller models, like AHM's Reno, or Tyco/Mantua's General. The idea that a huge cab-forward could be tender-driven is a complete revelation to me. It's sure got me rethinking how some of my models might be repowered.
--- In Espee@egroups.com, Leo Pesce <leo@s...> wrote:
Hello, prompted by Gary Tillery, I put together a web page with a few pictures of three engines modified for maximum traction: move the motor into the tender and fill the boiler full of lead. http://www.ocston.org/~leo/tender.htm Cheers Leo PS. the page points to pictures that are between 40 and 80 Kb. --- End forwarded message ---
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Re: [HOsteam] P2K 0-8-0
R. Keith Heinsohn <keith@...>
On Tue, 2 May 2000 22:21:01 +1200, you wrote:
Lifelike have updated their web page with many pix of the 0-8-0Oh, heck, Nelson, do it. Just say that SP was getting back some horsepower-hours. Use any road that-a-way. ...Keith -- e-mail: keith@heinsohn.org Santa Clara, CA. Why experiment on animals with so many lawyers out there?
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P2K 0-8-0
Nelson Kennedy <nelsonk@...>
Lifelike have updated their web page with many pix of the 0-8-0
http://www.lifelikeproducts.com/proto/steam/080.htm What a pity it looks noting like anything that SP operated. Now, tell me this. Would an NP switcher have had any good reason to find its way into SP territory? :-) Tempting. Very tempting. Nelson Kennedy, Christchurch, New Zealand. 0 gauge NZR trains at http://downunder.railfan.net Products for 0 gauge NZR (close to 1:32) at http://ninemill.railfan.net
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Update from Athearn
Nelson Kennedy <nelsonk@...>
We will be shipping the following Genesis units to our distributors early
next week. They'll be in stores about the end of next week or early the following week. G9011 USRA 2-8-2 Light Undecorated High headlight Footboard pilot G9012 USRA 2-8-2 Light CNR G9013 USRA 2-8-2 Light C&O G9014 USRA 2-8-2 Light Grand Trunk G9015 USRA 2-8-2 Light Maine Central G9016 USRA 2-8-2 Light Pere Marquette G9017 USRA 2-8-2 Light Seaboard Air Line G9018 USRA 2-8-2 Light Southern G9099 USRA 2-8-2 Tender (painted/unlettered) In about three weeks, we'll ship: G9000 USRA 2-8-2 Light Undecorated Low Headlight Road Pilot G9001 USRA 2-8-2 Light Undecorated Low Headlight Footboard Pilot G9010 USRA 2-8-2 Light Undecorated High Headlight Road Pilot Have a great weekend! Athearn, Inc. end quote Nelson Kennedy, Christchurch, New Zealand. 0 gauge NZR trains at http://downunder.railfan.net Products for 0 gauge NZR (close to 1:32) at http://ninemill.railfan.net
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P2K news
Nelson Kennedy <nelsonk@...>
This information came from Al at ECMR this morning:
quote Proto 2000 Steam Loco <> Update I spoke with Life Like this morning. They have informed me that the 0-8-0 will be produced in China and are guarantee same quality as 2-8-8-2. They also stated these will be manufactured in a much smaller quantity than the 2-8-8-2. The 2-8-8-2 will be re run in the future, and built in Austria by Roco. At least that is the game plan at this time, but might change. endquote Nelson Kennedy, Christchurch, New Zealand. 0 gauge NZR trains at http://downunder.railfan.net Products for 0 gauge NZR (close to 1:32) at http://ninemill.railfan.net
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Off Topic - NMRA - TLR Region Convention
Chris Shinn <cnshinn@...>
The Thousands Lakes Region of the NMRA is having their regional
convention in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada this coming May 26-28/2000. It is hosted by the Winnipeg Model Railway Club, the CNSig, and the CPSig. Like usual, layout tours are available on the Friday night. A BBQ on Friday and a banquet on Saturday are set up. There's a chance to check out some live steam, some 1 1/2" scale, and the real thing - the Prairie Dog Central, an 1880's 4-4-0 that makes a wonderful 2+ hour excursion run. Seminar presentee's include Dave Shaw (photo techniques), Brian Pate (modelling), Joe Boreshie (new name to most of you, a historic railroad photographer with lots of unpublished steam photo's), Jim Little (CPR signalling), Al Lill (editor of CN Lines), Jim Kelly (from MR), John Morris (brass kitbashing), Jim Brock (dispatching) Clark Kooning (MMR - modeling techniques), Bonnie Durrenberger ("people"ing layouts), Mike Barone (professional steam engineer), Ken Goslett (a frequent RMC contributor), Tom Mauszycki (track maintenance), ..... and the incomparably... .. Tony Koester. More info available at the WMRC webpage: http://www.winnipeg.freenet.mb.ca/wmrc/wmrc.html Come on up and join us. For you Americans, remember...your $1 US is worth about $1.48 CDN and that means buying power! Chris Shinn Winnipeg, Canada Member, Renegade HO Modular Club < http://members.xoom.com/renegade_MRC > "If it ain't steam, it's a powered boxcar"
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Re: [HOsteam] SP GS3/6, 4-6-0's etc.
Richard Parker <t3consult@...>
Remember the Cary Harriman Boiler? If some one could develop both "small"
(2-8-0 / 4-6-0) and larger (4-6-2 / 2-8-2) Harriman boilers in maybe resin(??) might be interesting . Thomas Beutel wrote: From: Thomas Beutel <Thomas.Beutel@efi.com>-- Dick Parker T3 Consulting 3122 S E 9th Portland, OR 97202 Phone (503) 239-5094 FAX (503) 239-5094 Email t3consult@worldnet.att.net
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Re: [HOsteam] Remember Aristocraft?
Thomas Beutel <Thomas.Beutel@...>
Hi Chris,
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The few that I have all need work, most likely due to sitting around in someone's closet for 40 years. I have the 2-4-2 Columbia that runs fairly smoothly but the motor is sluggish. And let's face it, these were made in the days before low current motors. I plan to take it apart and remotor it. Regards, Thomas Beutel San Francisco
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Shinn Aristocraft steam was before my time, too. Like you I've seen quite a few on eBay and have even been tempted to bid on a couple. I wonder how well they ran? Chris Shinn Winnipeg, Canada
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SP GS3/6, 4-6-0's etc.
Thomas Beutel <Thomas.Beutel@...>
Hi Ken,
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Thanks for the GS3/6 correction. You also make a good point about 4-6-0's. The Bowser and MDC 4-6-0's are SP flavored but need a lot of work to bring them close to a prototype class. In addition to SP 4-6-0's, the Northwestern Pacific had a number of smaller 4-6-0's (mostly ALCOs I believe) that would make nice models. I've often pondered what it would take to develop the dies for a 4-6-0 SP class T-28 for example, in association with Bowser or MDC. In their catalog, Bowser even states that they are willing to work with people on developing new models. While wishing for plastic versions of SP steam is fun, I think the practical matter is that only the universally "popular" models (GS4, Cab Forward) will ever be made in plastic. It will take a Bowser-Pennsy like manufacturer to supply the SP crowd. (And MDC is so close, if they would just upgrade those boilers...) (Too bad making model dies isn't like software. Then we could just develop it Open Source and distribute it on the Internet ;-) Later, Thomas Beutel San Francisco
-----Original Message-----
From: kenrclark@aol.com "Another candidate would be the GS3 and GS6. They are essentially the same, with variations in the skirting and appliances. " Actually not even close, the GS-3 is essentially the same as the GS-4, boiler, drivers (80"), cylinders, etc. The cosmetic differences are the cab and boiler front. The SP GS-6 and the WP GS64s are copies of the earlier, smaller GS-1 and GS-2 classes, engines with 73 inch drivers, with an all weather cab (like the GS-4). It is interesting to speculate on what the next "quality Plastic" steamer should be. Almost as common as the consolidations, for an equally long period were the Ten Wheelers. A nice size for any layout, I like SP but what would be the best prototype 4-6-0 for a P2K model?
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Re: [HOsteam] Picking the ideal plastic model steamer
If the goal is to pick a universally attractive engine, that would fit on
almost any home or club layout, and have some desireability, I have a first suggestion. A Baldwin 90 ton Mikado. These engines were favorites of shortlines and logging railroads, their small wheelbase makes model curves negotiable, yet they are large enough to pull an appropriate train. With real railroad names like Weyerhauser, McCloud River, Sierra, a few that come to mind on the West Coast, they would have name recognition and could be offered for a variety of railroads. Many of these engines still exist and the most interesting part, they haven't been produced in brass. I have three USRA light mikados that would be gone if I could have equally nice 90 ton mikados. my two cents for the day, ken
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Re: [HOsteam] Future of the "plastic" steam models.
marshall <zephyr03@...>
Leo Pesce wrote:
Yeah - if you did the GS-5 instead, you could do all of the above (except the Freedom Train) and add the Western Pacific's 48X class - Actually, a lot more railroads had 74"-drivered 4-8-4s than those with 80" . . . and the CRI&P R-67 served as the design basis for a number of engines on different roads. If Bachmann had stuck to their original announcement about the 2-8-0, with interchangeable stacks, domes, cabs, etc., you could cover around a dozen roads from the R-67 . . . Marshall
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