Date   

Re: This Old Locomotive...

Ken Clark
 

Steel will rust ...

Actually, I think there is too much oil on our models mechanisms for this to be a big problem. Considering the axles are steel, and most drive shafts as well. I've only encountered a couple of rusty steel shafts in working on several hundred models, and those models looked like they swam across the Pacific, the brass was in even worse shape. I agree on "stainless" Key tried and produced some engines with SS tires, and they were very slippery. And many, if not most O scale models have steel tires, and they don't get as much mileage as their little HO cousins.

ken


This Old Locomotive...

Arved@...
 

Well, I measured the drivers, and they measure about 0.71 - 0.72 inches in diameter, depending on where on the taper I measure (the RP-25 profile has a taper to provide a "dihedral" to improve tracking). That scales out to about a 62" driver.

The good news is that Bowser/Precision Scale has drivers in this size. The bad news is they are all spoked. Not a universal disk, boxpoke, or scullin in the whole lot :-(.

What I need, ideally, is 4 spoked drivers and 1 universal disk driver with matching crank throws, as close to 62" as possible. I figure I can work out axle diameters, gear/gearbox mounting and such myself, but scratch-building a driver center is a tad beyond my skill level.

I'd just like to resurrect this ol' girl. In the worst case, I do all this work, and end up with a spoked main driver.

Have a great weekend,

- Arved

P.S. And yes, BudFrogs is a real virus, but not a computer virus. It's a social virus dependent on the gullibility of those it infects.


Re: This Old Locomotive...

Ken Clark
 

In a message dated 2/11/00, 8:47:39 AM, HOsteam@onelist.com writes:
<<Well, I measured the drivers, and they measure about 0.71 - 0.72 inches in
diameter, depending on where on the taper I measure (the RP-25 profile has a
taper to provide a "dihedral" to improve tracking). That scales out to about
a 62" driver.>>


Without having my PFM Calipers and KTM models at work, I suspect you have the
standard KTM "nominal" 63" drivers, slightly undersized due to oversize
flanges, but not as bad as the Akane 63" drivers on their cab-forwards. I
have swapped KTM spoked drivers between Mikados, 2-10-2s, AC's, 4-6-0s, with
no hint of mechanical problems. When I put a "matched set" of Korean 57"
drivers in a WSM SP T-31 frame as part of Kit Bashing a NWP #182 those
drivers took a lot of TLC to run smoothly in the Japanese frame. I believe
Kemtron, therefore PSC, had cast driver centers for the 73" and 63" drivers.
One potential problem with mixing in Bowser drivers, the japanese models use
metric sizes, 3mm axles etc... if you are comfortable replacing/rebuilding
the loco frame then turning/truing a cast driver center should be a piece of
cake.

With the new more efficient motors, the eletrical conductivity of the wheels
is less important than before. I think there would be a market for mild
steel replacement tires for drivers in the common sizes (for SP at least) of
57", 63", 73", 80". Traction would be improved, wear reduced, and there
would be no plating to wear off. You ever hear diesel fans complain after
switching from Athearn iron wheels to NWSL plated wheelsets about losing a
lot of pulling power?

ken


My last word (for now!) on virus alerts

Nelson Kennedy <nelsonk@...>
 

I recommend you look up the following URL in respect of the Valentine
message if you are in any doubt:

http://www.sarc.com/avcenter/venc/data/be.my.valentine.hoax.html

Nelson Kennedy
H0 Steam list owner


Re: This Old Loco

Ken Clark
 

In a message dated 2/10/00 7:29:50 AM Pacific Standard Time,
a_grass@hotmail.com writes:

<< The "final blow" was discovering
the nickle silver plating of the drivers had worn off. In discussing
options to repower/regear this model, I developed the following little
sketch: >>

" Norm, really this is the age worn Patina of the metal showing thru and can
be preserved if we substitute a more efficient motor and reduce the need to
transmit large amounts of current thru the surface of the drivers.
Substituting new drivers will seriously reduce the effectiveness of the model
until the driver tire shape is worn to conform to the rail head shape in its
operating territory. This wear to performance conformance will reveal the
same underlying base metal as the old driver. To prevent the wearing away of
the base metal, I have made a jig which when installed beneath a specially
made sacle 50' flatcar with a 35 pound weight cast from spent uranium will
recontour the rail head to reduce wear on the new driver's plated surface.
This will also give us a special opportunity to identify and replace weak
subroadbed components and foundation supports. The automatic sound produced
by the flatcar landing on the foot of the owner/operator will allow precise
location of the structural defect though the use of three strategically
placed microphones and a simple triangulation program run on this Pentium III
computer purchased specifically for this purpose."
" Uh thanks, Steve"
"I wonder if the owner envisioned that the project scope would grow so much
out of a seemingly simple request?"


Arved.
Since this a KTM model, I would stick with KTM gears/driver sets. At most
NMRA conventions (and O Scale West) the inventory of replacement parts that
came from Vince Waterman's "Trackside Specialties" are on display. Somewhere
in the mass of jumbled papers resulting from my recent move, there is the new
address and company name, seems they periodically advertise in MR. To keep
things simple KTM seems to have used the same crankpin offset on all their
drivers, so substitution is usually troublefree. Since the 4-10-2s were the
same driver size as the AC-s there should be spare "disc" drivers available.
WSM F-5s also used a disc main driver. The KTM driver will likely have an
axle gear designed for use with the KTM 27:1 gearbox. Since I have converted
many of these gearboxes to 37;1 using the NWSL replacement gears, I have the
worm and wormgear (idler) sets available for these gearboxes. Personally I
prefer the older KTM (Japanese) models to the new Korean models for running
qualities and feel installing a set of Korean drivers in the mechanism would
be more trouble that it would be worth. My "best" running steamer hasn't had
plating on it's drivers in twenty years and it still will outperform any of
the new stuff, it does have weight, a large flywheel and an efficient motor,
just like the Kato diesels. I would only change a driver set if the bearing
wear became excessive. Some of my engines have lost most of the plating in
just a couple of trips pulling heavy trains around a large layout.

ken


Re: TWO NEW VIRSUS'S

Chris Shinn <cnshinn@...>
 

Please, before passing on any possible virus info, see if there is a listing
for it as a hoax. Most are hoaxes. As Nelson states, you can check out
the Symantec website at: www.sarc.com . It is updated frequently with
info on all known viruses and hoaxes.

Chris Shinn
Chief Operating Officer & Head Bottle Washer
Manitou Midland Rwy
"A Head fulla steam and a Belly fulla coal"
<http://members.xoom.com/renegade_MRC/

----- Original Message -----
From: Nelson Kennedy
To: HOsteam@onelist.com
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [HOsteam] TWO NEW VIRSUS'S


From: "Nelson Kennedy" <nelsonk@chch.planet.org.nz>

I guess Robert's posting was on its way before I posted my request to keep
the list free of such warnings. Let me say this loud and clear.

The Bud Frogs alert is a well documented hoax. It has been around since
1998. I was alerted to its revival a few days ago, checked out the sites
like Symantic and found they were saying that it had surfaced again and was
still a hoax. Can we lay it to rest, guys?

And check the hoax registers for ourselves before we clog up the email waves
of the world?

Cheers,

Nelson Kennedy,
H0 Steam list owner


Re: TWO NEW VIRSUS'S

Nelson Kennedy <nelsonk@...>
 

I guess Robert's posting was on its way before I posted my request to keep
the list free of such warnings. Let me say this loud and clear.

The Bud Frogs alert is a well documented hoax. It has been around since
1998. I was alerted to its revival a few days ago, checked out the sites
like Symantic and found they were saying that it had surfaced again and was
still a hoax. Can we lay it to rest, guys?

And check the hoax registers for ourselves before we clog up the email waves
of the world?

Cheers,

Nelson Kennedy,
H0 Steam list owner


VIRUS ALERTS - No, no, no!!

Nelson Kennedy <nelsonk@...>
 

Please guys, let's not clog up the list with virus alerts. Most lists have
a ban on their being posted. Most alerts are bogus. If you have any doubt
at all before passing alerts on to your friends, fire up your browser and go
into a search engine like Atlavista and do a search on the name of the virus
plus the words 'virus' and 'hoax' and see what it comes back with. The
Symantic site is often close to the top of the list when I do that and those
guys really know what they are talking about.

I subscribe to a a list which sends out verified warnings - that is how I
learned about Mellissa. That list has had nothing to report in recent
weeks.

Nelson Kennedy,
H0 Steam list owner


Re: this old loco

eric wolfsbane <wolfsbane@...>
 

Arved:

You had me rolling on the floor with this one. This Old House is about one
of my favorite shows.

As for your locomotive.

NWSL, Grandt Line and Precision Scale make metal and engineering platic gear
boxes that you coud use. A new motor is easy; ther's plenty of them out
there. Just find onenthat fits.

There are kits for electrostatically nickel plating brass and other metal
objects. I've seen them featured in gunsmithing books and magazines. The
J.C. Whitney catalog has carried them as well. Might be just trick to
restore those drivers.

I'm not sure what a universal disk driver looks like but I've seen Scullin
drivers modeled by using a thin brass overlay on a spoked driver. Might want
to try that technique.


Eric
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TWO NEW VIRSUS'S

Robert and Pauline Powell <lgrp@...>
 

MESSAGE ONE
SOMEONE IS SENDING OUT A VERY CUTE SCREENSAVER OF THE BUDWEISER FROGS. IF YOU DOWNLOAD IT, YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTYHING!!!
YOUR HARD DRIVE WILL CRASH AND SOMEONE FROM THE INTERNET WILL GIT YOUR SCREEN NAME AND PASSWORD. DO NOT DOWNLOAD IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!! IT JUST WENT INTO CIRCULATIOON ON FEB 7th,2000. AOL HAS SAID THAT THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS VIRUS AND THAT THERE IS NO REMEDY FOR IT AT THIS TIME.

MESSAGE TWO

WARNING!!!! ON FEBRUARY 14, 2000 YOU MAY RECEIVE ANDE-MAIL CALLED, "BE MY VALENTIME"... DO NOT OPEN IT. IT CONTAINS A DEADLY VIRUS.... IT WILL ERASE YOUR WINDOWS ALONG WITH MANY OTHER PROGRAM FILES... GET THE WORD OUT!!!! THIS WAS REPORTED ON THE CBS MORNING NEWS JANUARY 7, 2000.


NEW VIRUS'S

Robert and Pauline Powell <lgrp@...>
 

JENNIFER
READ THESE MESSAGES CAREFULLY AND WATCH FOR THE E-MAIL MESSAGES AS NOTED. AS THE MESSAGE SAYS DIRE CONSEQUENCES WILL FOLLOW IF YOU DOWN LOAD THEM.. DAD.

CASSEY
I DON'T KNOW IF THESE WARNINGS WILL REACH THE OTHER MEMBERS OR NOT. ATTACHMENTS ARE NO LONGER PASSED ON. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT ENOUGH THAT I WILL SEND OUT AN ADVISORY TO THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP.

BOB


This Old Loco

Arved Grass <a_grass@...>
 

I have an old Max-Gray/KTM Southern Pacific 4-10-2. It's been run so much
that the gearbox is worn out, and the old Pitman motor is showing signs of
demagnitization in it's permenant magnet. The "final blow" was discovering
the nickle silver plating of the drivers had worn off. In discussing
options to repower/regear this model, I developed the following little
sketch:

Norm Abrahms: "You know, Bob, we really shouldn't try to reuse these
drivers. Look how the nickel plating has worn off over the years, revealing
the brass base metal."

Bob Villa: "Yeah, and the main driver really should be a universal disc for
the timeframe the modeler is really interested."

Norm: "That solves the problem with the worn gears. When we order the new
drivers, we'll just tack on the gear cases that they're supposed to be used
with."

Bob: "You're assuming the modeler will be able to get a complete set of
drivers and gearcase. There's nothing like that listed in the Walther's
catalogue. Bowser, Roundhouse, Mantua - all gone!"

Norm: "Well, the owner's going to have to wait until a suitable similar
model is made - a newer run 4-10-2, or perhaps a 2-10-2 or even a 2-8-2 with
a similar driver size, and hope he can order the parts. The tough part will
be getting them in the right size, and in both spoked and disk version."

Bob: "Can't we just fix up the existing gearbox so the model runs good now,
and buy some time to wait for the parts to materialize on the market?"

Norm: "Well, we could, but with the worn driver treads the way they are, it
will be a real headache for the modeler. They'll be a bear to keep clean,
and they just won't work right. Besides, he really needs to replace that
main driver if he's going to model this engine so late in it's life."

Bob: "Yeah, I guess it really isn't worth it to go through regearing the
drive, replating the drivers, and have the older main driver still there.
What about reusing the spoked drivers, once they're replated, and just
replacing the main driver?"

Norm: "That could work, but only if the disk driver is set up with for the
exact same piston stroke as the other drivers. They've all got to match, so
replacing as a set is the safest way to go."

Bob (to camera): "OK, when we come back, we'll take a look at some other
older steam locomotives, and what it takes to get them restored to
operation. And later in the show, we'll be joined by Steve Lee of Union
Pacific's Historical Locomotive Program, and look at what it takes to
restore a real steam locomotive. Stay tuned."

Break to ad for Athearn Genesis 2-8-2...


Thanks to the archives of this list, I've since discovered that Bowser does
have an extensive line of drivers. I may have to settle for a boxpoke
driver as a substitute for a Universal Disk driver, but it gives me some
hope. I still have to measure out the drivers and see if there are some
replacements, but I thought I'd share my little story here as a sort of
group introduction.

Thanks,
- Arved


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Re: bachmann 2-8-0

eric wolfsbane <wolfsbane@...>
 

Jim Flynn writes:

"Is the Bachmann 2-8-0 appropriate for the year 1930? Am switching from N
scale to HO, and the B'mann model is or rough appearance of the 2-8-0s used
by the RR I'm modeling. Am not going for prototype accuracy, but want
engines correct for that year."

Are you talking about Bachmann's Spectrum Series 2-8-0 or the mid eighties
Bachmann 2-8-0? They're of very different prototypes.


Eric






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Re: Bachmann 2-8-0?

marshall <zephyr03@...>
 

Jim & Brenda wrote:

From: Jim & Brenda <jandb@gcronline.com>

Is the Bachmann 2-8-0 appropriate for the year 1930? Am switching from N
scale to HO, and the B'mann model is or rough appearance of the 2-8-0s
used by the RR I'm modeling. Am not going for prototype accuracy, but
want engines correct for that year.
Depending on prototype (or lack thereof), the Bachmann 2-8-0 could fit
into pretty much any date from ca. 1925 to end-of-steam. It could be
reasonably backdated to 1910 or so.

Marshall


Re: Bachmann 2-8-0?

Robert Joseph Amsler, Jr. <ramsler@...>
 

Jim,

Yes you can use the 2-8-0 for 1930. They were found everywhere up until the
end of steam.

Bob Amsler
ramsler@worldnet.att.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim & Brenda [mailto:jandb@gcronline.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 5:37 AM
To: HOsteam@onelist.com
Subject: [HOsteam] Bachmann 2-8-0?

From: Jim & Brenda <jandb@gcronline.com>

Is the Bachmann 2-8-0 appropriate for the year 1930? Am switching from N
scale to HO, and the B'mann model is or rough appearance of the 2-8-0s
used by the RR I'm modeling. Am not going for prototype accuracy, but
want engines correct for that year.

TIA

Jim Flynn

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Keeping the memory of steam alive!


Bachmann 2-8-0?

Jim & Brenda <jandb@...>
 

Is the Bachmann 2-8-0 appropriate for the year 1930? Am switching from N
scale to HO, and the B'mann model is or rough appearance of the 2-8-0s
used by the RR I'm modeling. Am not going for prototype accuracy, but
want engines correct for that year.

TIA

Jim Flynn


Re: cylinder blocks

eric wolfsbane <wolfsbane@...>
 

Casey Sterbenz writes:

"One very interesting thing about the MoPac prototype is that some of the
locomotives were fitted with slide valves and Stephenson valve gear, some
with piston valves and Walschaerts valve gear, and some with piston valves
and Baker valve gear! Photos of all three versions appear in the MR
article. Now I'm toying with the idea of obtaining a second 2-8-0 kit so I
can build two versions of that engine!

"...does anybody know of a source for a steam chest/cylinder casting
featuring slide valves that might fit the Varney frame? Would the Model Die
Casting cylinders from their 0-6-0 be suitable?"

I'd be more inclined to check out their [mdc] old time 2-8-0 cylinder block
instead. It has the round cylinder with a rectangular valve box on top of
the slide valve stephenson gear design.

As for Baker gear, Precision Scale has sets available. They also have a
selection stephenson pistons and valve gear as well.

You might want to check out the May 1984 issue of Trains magazine. It has a
really good article on 'big five' of valve gear. Stephenson, Walschaerts,
Baker, Southern, and Young; sounds like a name for a band. :-}

Eric

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2-8-0 PROTOTYPES

Casey Sterbenz
 

Eric,

Your mailgram of 25 January (HOsteam Digest 71) listed an article in the
October '74 Model Railroader about building a steam locomotive using styrene
techniques. I finally dug into my back issue pile to locate that article
and discovered, in that same issue of Model Railroader, a set of drawings
and photographs for a Missouri Pacific 2-8-0! This prototype also scales
very close to the Varney engine which makes it an attractive candidate for
my rebuilding project.

One very interesting thing about the MoPac prototype is that some of the
locomotives were fitted with slide valves and Stephenson valve gear, some
with piston valves and Walschaerts valve gear, and some with piston valves
and Baker valve gear! Photos of all three versions appear in the MR
article. Now I'm toying with the idea of obtaining a second 2-8-0 kit so I
can build two versions of that engine!

On that last note, does anybody know of a source for a steam chest/cylinder
casting featuring slide valves that might fit the Varney frame? Would the
Model Die Casting cylinders from their 0-6-0 be suitable? I'm guessing not,
as the cylinders on the switcher would likely be smaller than the cylinders
on the 2-8-0. Of course, making my own steam chest/cylinder set would be a
good exercise in scratch building.

Casey Sterbenz
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Re: space saver switching design

marshall <zephyr03@...>
 

bigredtruck@piasanet.com wrote:

From: bigredtruck@piasanet.com

I know this is off track for this site, but I'm looking for the space saver
switch design that I think John Allen or John Armstrong drew many years ago.
I think you're probably looking for John Allen's "Timesaver" . . .

Marshall


TIMESAVER ORIGINAL ARTICLE

Casey Sterbenz
 

Friends,

As I recall, the original Timesaver article by John Allen appeared in Model
Railroader for November 1972. Reprints of that article (or of any Model
Railroader article) are available from Kalmbach Publishing by calling
1-800-533-6644. Photocopies are $3 per article with a minimum order of $5,
last time I looked.

A search of the model railroad magazine index at
http://www.accurail.com/tm.exe shows 14 articles with the keyword
"Timesaver" in the title.

Casey Sterbenz
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