Topics

Transferring Owner to Moderator

Stuart McCarthy <perthspotter@...>
 

A few years back our group was formed and data transferred from Yahoogroups, however just after creating this group our Owner disappeared, we have tried numerous times to contact him, without success, and I have been struggling along as Moderator without any privileges other than being able to ban or remove a member.

Can I be added as an owner, because it's becoming very frustrating for our members, and in case the question is asked, I was not given access to the settings area, so I cannot change anything.


Regards

Stuart McCarthy
Moderator

Duane
 

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 07:16 PM, Stuart McCarthy wrote:
Can I be added as an owner
No.  Only an owner can promote someone else to owner, https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-moderators-and-additional-owners

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

ro-esp
 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 02:16 AM, Stuart McCarthy wrote:


A few years back our group was formed and data transferred from
Yahoogroups, however just after creating this group our Owner disappeared,
we have tried numerous times to contact him, without success, and I have
been struggling along as Moderator without any privileges other than being
able to ban or remove a member.

Can I be added as an owner, because it's becoming very frustrating for our
members, and in case the question is asked, I was not given access to the
settings area, so I cannot change anything.
there are no official provisions in place, and some people argue that there shouldn't be (...), but the only ones being able to help you can be contacted at support@groups.io


groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo

 

I would ask at support@groups.io, explain the situation -- I think this situation is not uncommon.

Stuart McCarthy <perthspotter@...>
 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 07:05 PM, Gesine wrote:
I would ask at support@groups.io, explain the situation -- I think this situation is not uncommon.

 Thankyou for the replies, I have sent an email to support@groups.io but as of Saturday I have not received a reply, which is not a surprise as the owner of groups.io also ignored my email last year. 

Duane
 

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 08:42 AM, Stuart McCarthy wrote:
I have sent an email to support@groups.io but as of Saturday I have not received a reply
Unless you own a premium group, you shouldn't expect a reply.  It's my understanding that all others go in the bit bucket.  See the top of the page, https://groups.io/helpcenter

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

Joyce Katona
 

I never received a reply to the same question when the owner of our club’s group passed away.  Someone from this group suggested we try and get access to her computer.  We were fortunate that her sister allowed us to use her computer and we changed ownership through her account.  Without that, we would have been forced to shut down the group and begin a new one adding 427 people back into the group!!

Good Luck,

Joyce

 

From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io <GroupManagersForum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Duane
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 9:59 AM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Transferring Owner to Moderator

 

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 08:42 AM, Stuart McCarthy wrote:

I have sent an email to support@groups.io but as of Saturday I have not received a reply

Unless you own a premium group, you shouldn't expect a reply.  It's my understanding that all others go in the bit bucket.  See the top of the page, https://groups.io/helpcenter

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

 

Stuart,

... I have sent an email to support@groups.io but as of Saturday I
have not received a reply, which is not a surprise as the owner of
groups.io also ignored my email last year.
It is also not a surprise for the reason Duane mentioned.

There have been many discussions in the beta group that have touched on this issue, but I only find two that address it as the topic.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/175785
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/71205153

It won't solve your current problem, but you could join beta and add your thoughts to the newer topic and/or create your own. I think that's your primary venue to keep Mark aware that this is an ongoing unaddressed need.

My personal feeling is that a succession mechanism may be well and good, but there will still need to be a means to deal with situations where the group owner(s) did not use the mechanism (regardless of why).

Shal


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Michael Pavan
 

I and others have wished for and suggested an "Absentee Owner Succession feature" several times.
Many have wished it existed so that groups would not become 'orphaned'. A lot of people regret it didn't exist when missing group Owners prevented many YahooGroups from easily transferring to Groups.io.

The last time I raised the suggestion in February
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/29145
there was a lot of flak from those who couldn't imagine it was a legitimate issue - I guess because they believe 'it would never happen to them',

But, any group can become essentially 'Owner-less' should the Owner(s) 'disappear' e.g.
-forget their password (if they have one) and are unable to access their email address(es),
-are 'removed for Spam reporting' and after some period of time fail to reactivate themself,
-lose interest,
-become senile,
-suffer a stroke,
-get hit by a bus,
-die, etc.
And the fact that it DOES habitually happen means it is a problem.

I never understood the objection to an optional feature that would allow an Absentee Owner to be replaced, especially if it could be done as set up by the existing Owner AND would not involve having to try to get Groups.io to adjudicate if and who should become the new Owner...


The situation did improve a little when "Set Moderator Privileges" permission was modified to not allow a Moderator to remove an Owner.

On Jul 3, 2020, at 8:08 PM, Stuart McCarthy <perthspotter@...> wrote:

A few years back our group was formed and data transferred from Yahoogroups, however just after creating this group our Owner disappeared, we have tried numerous times to contact him, without success, and I have been struggling along as Moderator without any privileges other than being able to ban or remove a member.

Can I be added as an owner, because it's becoming very frustrating for our members, and in case the question is asked, I was not given access to the settings area, so I cannot change anything.

Jan van Heiningen
 

I can understand both the arguments for and against easy transfer of ownership Whether the issue will ever be resolved or not there is at least one thing you can do about it and that is to create more owners per group just to be safe And do it NOW before it becomes urgent.
 
Since most groups are a coöperative effort I see.no arguments against doing that - and each group can decide on and manage this for themselves. 
 
And I recommend it If only because you need a password everywhere so forgetting or.mixing these up is almost too easy
 
Best regards
 
Jsn
 

Op zo 12 jul. 2020 07:07 schreef Michael Pavan <michaelpavan@...>:
I and others have wished for and suggested an "Absentee Owner Succession feature" several times.
Many have wished it existed so that groups would not become 'orphaned'. A lot of people regret it didn't exist when missing group Owners prevented many YahooGroups from easily transferring to Groups.io.

The last time I raised the suggestion in February
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/29145
there was a lot of flak from those who couldn't imagine it was a legitimate issue - I guess because they believe 'it would never happen to them',

But, any group can become essentially 'Owner-less' should the Owner(s) 'disappear' e.g.
  -forget their password (if they have one) and are unable to access their email address(es),
  -are 'removed for Spam reporting' and after some period of time fail to reactivate themself,
  -lose interest,
  -become senile,
  -suffer a stroke,
  -get hit by a bus,
  -die, etc.
And the fact that it DOES habitually happen means it is a problem.

I never understood the objection to an optional feature that would allow an Absentee Owner to be replaced, especially if it could be done as set up by the existing Owner AND would not involve having to try to get Groups.io to adjudicate if and who should become the new Owner...


The situation did improve a little when "Set Moderator Privileges" permission was modified to not allow a Moderator to remove an Owner.

[excess quote trimmed by moderator]

David Sepos
 

Multiple owners is a good answer to the "missing owner" situation. I am one of three owners in my primary group and it has been that way for several years including Yahoo. It also works well if one person is going to have an extended absence for whatever the reason. It's not necessary for all these persons to be active group managers..... just think of it as someone dependable to keep an extra set of keys.

Life is short and tomorrow is not guaranteed for anyone. Do it today before you forget.

Dave

Jan van Heiningen
 

I can absolutely agree with this

Op zo 12 jul. 2020 20:06 schreef David Sepos <sepos.david@...>:

Multiple owners is a good answer to the "missing owner" situation. I am one of three owners in my primary group and it has been that way for several years including Yahoo. It also works well if one person is going to have an extended absence for whatever the reason. It's not necessary for all these persons to be active group managers..... just think of it as someone dependable to keep an extra set of keys.

Life is short and tomorrow is not guaranteed for anyone. Do it today before you forget.

Dave

 

The problem of orphaned group can be avoided if groups.io requires that there be two owners to open up a new group.  For the existing groups where there is only one owner, groups.io can issue a reminder notice to all group owners asking them to make sure that their group has at least two owners.  Those who are concerned about this can submit their request to the beta group.

Duane
 

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 03:48 PM, Mahendra Bakshi wrote:
if groups.io requires that there be two owners
There are some group owners that would fight that idea tooth and nail.  A few have already said that when they're gone, so is their group - no succession.  I've always had at least one other owner on any of my groups, just in case.  They don't have to do anything until something happens to me.  Then it would be up to them and the group to decide how, or if, to continue.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

Jan van Heiningen
 

That solution makes more sense to me the groupownerd who think they should be in totaal control and take the group with them into their grave 

To my mind  the groupowner is there to serve the interests of the group and the members and should forward their interests ! That at least is the case in our group (with multiple owners) and I like it that way I have no interest to be King of the Mountain or whatever you want to call it or serve such a person But each to his own But if I would really love.my group I think I would place a coup and hand over the ownership to others...

Best regards

Jan 

Op zo 12 jul. 2020 22:56 schreef Duane <txpigeon@...>:

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 03:48 PM, Mahendra Bakshi wrote:
if groups.io requires that there be two owners
There are some group owners that would fight that idea tooth and nail.  A few have already said that when they're gone, so is their group - no succession.  I've always had at least one other owner on any of my groups, just in case.  They don't have to do anything until something happens to me.  Then it would be up to them and the group to decide how, or if, to continue.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 04:56 PM, Duane wrote:
A few have already said that when they're gone, so is their group - no succession.
I agree that the group owner should have this option, and it needs to be honored. Just because it's become inconvenient for those he's left behind is no reason for groups.io support to intervene. Second-guessing his intentions is inappropriate, and may not even be legal. It all comes down to that. 

Regards,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual

Jan van Heiningen
 

I agree it would be better to have groups handle this themselves However to have groupowners have a 100,%=control untill the death and beyond to my mind does not honour the input and contribution of other.members of the group

Best regards

Jan

Op zo 12 jul. 2020 23:17 schreef Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...>:

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 04:56 PM, Duane wrote:
A few have already said that when they're gone, so is their group - no succession.
I agree that the group owner should have this option, and it needs to be honored. Just because it's become inconvenient for those he's left behind is no reason for groups.io support to intervene. Second-guessing his intentions is inappropriate, and may not even be legal. It all comes down to that. 

Regards,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual

 

Duane said "There are some group owners that would fight that idea tooth and nail.  A few have already said that when they're gone, so is their group - no succession. "

Groups are meant for group members, not for fulfilling the desire of a lone individual who happens to be an owner.  A group that has been established should be able to continue to operate normally and should not have to face the problem of orphaned group.  If groups.io requires that there be two owners, those that would fight that idea tooth and nail are free to leave and go elsewhere for their no succession group.

Marv Waschke
 

Succession is a recurring situation that seems to have caused a number of groups some distress, but current mechanisms are perfectly reasonable and adequate. An owner who is concerned about succession can set up one or more co-owners. That practice has many advantages, but owners who don't want co-owners are certainly entitled to their position.However, to avert unintentional consequences, I suggest adding a sentence or two to the owner's manual section "Managing moderator and additional owners>Overview" explaining that groups will be irreversibly stranded if their single owner is run over by a truck.
Best, Marv

Duane
 

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 05:31 PM, Mahendra Bakshi wrote:
Groups are meant for group members, not for fulfilling the desire of a lone individual who happens to be an owner.  A group that has been established should be able to continue to operate normally and should not have to face the problem of orphaned group.  If groups.io requires that there be two owners, those that would fight that idea tooth and nail are free to leave and go elsewhere for their no succession group.
I think you've got that backwards.  Groups are started by people who believe they can fill a need.  It's their sole decision whether anyone else is made an owner, or even a moderator.  The person that establishes a group calls all the shots.  If others don't like that choice, they're free to start their own group.  In some cases that has happened and both groups have succeeded.  In other cases, the "new" group flopped miserably.  In a few cases, the original group shut down and the "new" one became the standard.  There's room here for all of them.  No need for Groups.io management to be put in the middle.

Duane
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The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki